[07:22] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:23] <duflu> Hey oSoMoN
[07:27] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:28] <duflu> Trevinho, are you awake? :)
[07:28] <Trevinho> duflu: hey, yes
[07:28] <didrocks> good morning
[07:28] <duflu> Trevinho, morning... What's the process for mutter commits? Jonas approved a patch of mine but who lands it?
[07:28] <Trevinho> hi didrocks
[07:28] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:29] <Trevinho> duflu: if it's under commit-now, he can land it or I can too...
[07:29] <Trevinho> duflu: anyone with gnome git push can...
[07:29] <Trevinho> if I get the "commit-now" flag I generally just go ahead, otherwise I wait for a maintainer
[07:30] <duflu> Trevinho, how would I know if I have such powers?
[07:30] <Trevinho> duflu: you know if you have them :-D
[07:30]  * didrocks is still waiting for patch reviewing for 2 months on the Shell, lucky duflu ;)
[07:30] <Trevinho> duflu: I mean you need to follow a registration process...
[07:30] <duflu> didrocks, I have one older than that :/
[07:30] <Trevinho> but not it's on invitation or sort off
[07:30] <duflu> Trevinho, OK, please: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790309
[07:31] <Trevinho> didrocks: I'm in the same boat too.. with maaaany commits. Only Jonas is the one who really reviews so far :-(
[07:31] <duflu> (master and 3.26)
[07:31] <Trevinho> duflu: ok I'll do it soon
[07:31] <duflu> Ta
[07:32] <didrocks> Trevinho: yeah, quite frustating. Good that Jonas is on top on the wayland side at least :)
[08:37] <didrocks> started with 200 lines of patch, dep on the dock & gsettings + duplicated code to:
[08:37] <didrocks>  panel.js |   18 +++++++++++++++++-
[08:37] <didrocks>  1 file changed, 17 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
[08:37] <didrocks> \o/
[08:42] <willcooke> morning all
[08:42] <didrocks> good morning willcooke
[08:43] <willcooke> hey didrocks
[08:47] <andyrock> good morning
[08:47] <willcooke> hihi andyrock
[08:47] <didrocks> hey andyrock
[08:48] <willcooke> The power is going off here at some point today, don't know when exactly.  I'll switch to 3G so it should be fine
[08:48] <willcooke> but if I vanish, that's why
[08:50] <seb128> good morning desktopers, hey willcooke didrocks andyrock
[08:55] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:56] <seb128> hey didrocks :)
[08:59] <didrocks> Trevinho: do you think you can review https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792354? (as this one is small and self-contained)
[09:02] <Laney> hao
[09:05] <andyrock> hey Laney
[09:05] <andyrock> Laney: do you mind taking a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/httmock/+bug/1735160 ?
[09:06] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[09:08] <Laney> hey andyrock seb128
[09:09] <Laney> seb128: i'm alright, was just looking at the christmas tree which is still up
[09:09]  * Laney is receiving bad luck now
[09:09] <Laney> :(!
[09:09] <Laney> you?
[09:09] <Laney> andyrock: yeah ok
[09:09] <andyrock> danke
[09:09] <seb128> is that bad luck to keep those after the new year?
[09:09] <Laney> I'll comment on the bug with feedback?
[09:10] <seb128> I'm good thanks :)
[09:10] <Laney> after the 12th night which is jan 6
[09:21] <didrocks> hey Laney
[09:32] <Laney> yo didrocks
[09:32] <Laney> you ok?
[09:37] <didrocks> I'm okish ;) yourself?
[09:42] <andyrock> who's willing to review some software-properties code?
[09:47] <Laney> GREAT!
[09:52]  * duflu thinks Laney is probably answering didrocks, not andyrock
[09:52] <andyrock> ahah :D
[09:52] <andyrock> 💔
[09:54]  * Laney already signed up to some review :-)
[10:12] <seb128> andyrock, I can try to have a look if nobody steps up (though week is going to be busy for me catching up post holidays and preparing next week), but could you try to ping bdmurray in case he would be wanting to do that?  I think he did look at some of the changes there in the past and software-properties is foundations-maintained iirc
[10:42] <willcooke> Anyone had a play with this: https://github.com/lestcape/Gnome-Global-AppMenu ?
[10:43] <duflu> Not to be rude, but instead; good night
[10:45] <didrocks> willcooke: unsure if this is the popular one, but I got mixed reviews from users on the appmenu extension (only partially working and so on)
[10:46] <willcooke> ah right, I expected it wouldnt be a great experience
[10:47] <didrocks> could work quite well for gtkapplications, but most of them have migrated to headerbar anyway
[10:48] <didrocks> the only one which would have been great is gnome-terminal, which isn't supported under wayland from the README
[10:49] <willcooke> hexchat is the biggest pain point for me atm
[10:50] <didrocks> I have a special "gnome-terminal profile" not showing the menu for weechat
[10:51] <didrocks> have you tried Polari? I heard it's crashing a lot though
[10:51] <willcooke> Haven't looked, but the idea of having to a different app just because menus don't work seems, odd ;)
[10:51] <willcooke> like, I dont want to have to
[10:52] <didrocks> yeah, just that one should be better integrated, not a fix per say :)
[11:21] <Laney> andyrock: did you mean to have a py-macaroon-bakery task instead of a python-nacl one?
[11:34] <andyrock> Laney: sorry?
[11:34] <andyrock> there is just one bug
[11:35] <Laney> yes but 4 tasks on it
[11:40] <Laney> there's no change for python-nacl there but there is a py-macaroon-bakery one
[11:41] <Laney> anyway, I commented, thanks for the work so far
[12:09] <willcooke_> Trevinho, are you free at 1400 UTC (~ 2 hrs) for a design meeting re: themes?
[12:24] <andyrock> thanks Laney I'll take a look after lunch
[13:02] <Trevinho> willcooke_: hey... Yes!
[13:03] <didrocks> Trevinho: have you seen my request for review this morning? :)
[13:37] <Trevinho> didrocks: ops no, sorry... Checking
[14:29] <willcooke_> just finishing a meeting, will be a few mins for the team meeting
[14:31] <willcooke_> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-09
[14:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  9 14:31:53 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:32] <didrocks> hey hey hey
[14:32] <willcooke_> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[14:32] <jbicha> o/
[14:32] <oSoMoN> o/
[14:32] <jibel> hi o/
[14:32] <andyrock> o/
[14:32] <seb128> hey
[14:32] <Laney> _o
[14:32] <heber> o/
[14:32] <Trevinho> 1o
[14:32] <Laney> ,o
[14:33] <Trevinho> o-
[14:33] <willcooke_> Happy new year gang!
[14:33] <Laney> o
[14:33] <Trevinho> ·
[14:33] <jbicha> Laney: did your arm fall off?
[14:33] <Laney> °
[14:33]  * seb128 wonders what Trevinho and Laney are drawing
[14:33] <Laney> floating away
[14:33] <Trevinho> it can be a good random seed
[14:33] <andyrock> ahaha
[14:33] <willcooke_> Laney, how are you going to operate your digital watch now?
[14:33] <kenvandine> o/
[14:33] <willcooke_> bonus points for knowing that quote ^
[14:34] <willcooke_> let's start
[14:34] <willcooke_> #topic andyrock
[14:34] <andyrock> hey
[14:34] <andyrock> 1. Catching up after long holidays
[14:34] <andyrock> 2. Try to understand why livepatch notifications are not showed in bionic (some problem with symstemd path units)
[14:34] <andyrock> 3. Still working on the py-macaroonsbakery SRU
[14:34] <andyrock> 4. Some debug for possible regressions in the unity lockscreen
[14:34] <andyrock> 5. EOW
[14:34] <willcooke_> thanks andyrock
[14:34] <Laney> fraid not
[14:34] <willcooke_> #topic dgadomski
[14:34] <dgadomski> hey
[14:34] <dgadomski> sadly, nothing desktop-releated to share this year so far
[14:35] <dgadomski> eof
[14:35] <willcooke_> cheers dgadomski
[14:35] <willcooke_> #topic didrocks
[14:35] <didrocks> hey!
[14:35] <didrocks> * Dealing with a month of email backlog
[14:35] <didrocks> * Finally dealt with legal stuff in GNOME, we are now waiting on a new checkbox implementation on extensions.gnome.org
[14:35] <didrocks> * Mentor and guide students in Google code in (still ongoing)
[14:35] <didrocks> * Catching up with December's news. (I would like to desktop the nautilus desktop item in the AOB)
[14:35] <didrocks> * Relaunching Volume + extensions support discussion (seems no upstream movement on this though, but some suggestions from GNOME design team)
[14:35] <didrocks> * Catchup on new theme discussions and progress
[14:35] <didrocks> * MIR gnome-characters review
[14:35] <didrocks> .
[14:35] <willcooke_> thanks didrocks
[14:36] <willcooke_> #topic duflue
[14:36] <willcooke_> #topic duflu
[14:36] <willcooke_> * BlueZ 5.48 for bionic:
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Git setup done: https://git.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/bluez?h=ppa-bionic
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Completed testing with a few devices. Works well here. Possibly slightly better than 5.46 does right now?
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - PPA ready (modulo blocked builds :P) for bionic: https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Test at your leisure.
[14:36] <willcooke_> * Pure Wayland apps (including mpv) not responding to the mouse (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739625)
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Yes, really. I can't believe I missed this after recommending mpv to everyone.
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Invested a couple of days and proposed a fix upstream: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790309
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - This was also interesting to me to learn about Wayland's WM interfaces.
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Fix landing soon. I hope it will be in time for mutter 3.26.3.
[14:36] <willcooke_> * Unresponsive touchpads (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696929)
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Good news: Tested on more laptops with great success.
[14:36] <willcooke_>   - Bad news: A couple of days ago upstream changed the algorithm again, in a risky way. So now I'm going to have to restart testing all over again. Then hopefully will distro-patch this week.
[14:36] <willcooke_> * HELP: Fixes still awaiting sponsorship:
[14:37] <willcooke_>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846
[14:37] <willcooke_>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195
[14:37] <willcooke_>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1732629
[14:37] <willcooke_> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
[14:37] <willcooke_> * Completed retrospective bug reviews for all new bugs logged during my vacation: pulseaudio, totem, mpv, gnome-shell, mutter, dkms, wayland, ubuntu-themes, gdm3, mir
[14:37] <willcooke_>   - Worth noting: gnome-shell needs more people answering its bugs.
[14:37] <willcooke_>   - Also worth noting: nautilus (Ubuntu) needs a massive bug clean-out.
[14:37] <willcooke_> desktoppers, please take a look at the "HELP" section and see if you can sponsor any of those ^^
[14:37] <willcooke_> #topic jbicha
[14:37] <jbicha> • Finished converting most of Debian's pkg-gnome repos from svn to git
[14:37] <jbicha> • Filed bugs to help remove old GNOME2 libraries from Debian and Ubuntu
[14:37] <jbicha> • Filed a lot of GNOME bugs in 2017
[14:37] <jbicha> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2018-January/msg00004.html
[14:37] <jbicha> • Uploaded the Desktop Sharing panel for unity-control-center written by robert_ancell, updated by k_alam
[14:37] <jbicha> • Uploaded up-to-date vino, leaving only vala (scheduled for late January) and gnome-terminal/vte at the 3.24 versions as the only GNOME components not at 3.26
[14:38] <jbicha> • Mozilla has announced the next ESR will be 60 instead of 59. That means 18.04's Thunderbird will probably still depend on gtk2
[14:38] <jbicha> since 52 ESR still supports NPAPI plugins besides Flash.
[14:38] <jbicha> If debconf is ported to gtk3 soon, that will make 18.04.1 the first Ubuntu release without gtk2 (since it will have Thunderbird 60)
[14:38] <jbicha> https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar
[14:38] <jbicha> • I won't be at next week's meeting
[14:38] <jbicha> • 😎
[14:38] <willcooke_> nice work jbicha, thanks a lot
[14:39] <willcooke_> #topic jamesh
[14:39] <willcooke_> gnome-software:
[14:39] <willcooke_> *produced debdiff for next xenial update based on Robert's work.
[14:39] <willcooke_> snapcraft:
[14:39] <willcooke_> *debugged font display issue for Electron based snaps using desktop
[14:39] <willcooke_> interface.  In the end a community member pointed out the issue: the
[14:39] <willcooke_> executable stack flag causes our AppArmor policy to stop fontconfig
[14:39] <willcooke_> from mmaping fonts and cache files.  I think we could do with a better
[14:39] <willcooke_> "lint" tools (or advertise the existing ones better).
[14:39] <willcooke_> snapd:
[14:39] <willcooke_> * followed up on my outstanding PRs.  We're trying to organise a time
[14:39] <willcooke_> for me, zyga and niemeyer to discuss how to proceed on the user-mounts
[14:39] <willcooke_> PR this week.
[14:39] <willcooke_> * I also chatted with zyga about the status of his extended content
[14:39] <willcooke_> interface PR (a prereq for implementing theme support).  He says all
[14:39] <willcooke_> its blockers have been merged, but it has a few merge conflicts that
[14:39] <willcooke_> need resolving.
[14:39] <willcooke_> #topic jibel / heber
[14:39] <jibel> - Testing of the Firefox snap
[14:39] <jibel> - Preparation work for bootspeed tests (automated provisioning and instrumentation of machines running bionic in the Taipei lab)
[14:39] <jibel> - Testing of 17.10.1 to fix bug 1734147. The target release date is this Thursday (Jan. 11th) Any help from someone with a spare lenovo machine is welcome.
[14:39] <jibel> - Investigating distribution upgrade bug from 17.10 to 18.04 (bug 1742147)
[14:39] <jibel> - Fixed QA CI jobs in Jenkins. Testing now.
[14:39] <jibel> - Help in #ubuntu-google with task: Automate gnome-software tests: code approved but merge pending until we can run the tests on Jenkins (some nodes are still offline due to Meltdown/Spectre situation)
[14:40] <jibel> - Adding more automated tests for gnome-software
[14:40] <jibel> ..
[14:40] <willcooke_> thanks jibel
[14:40] <willcooke_> #topic kenvandine
[14:40] <kenvandine> * Worked on an issue with fonts not being displayed in electron apps when using the desktop interfaces, resolved now.
[14:40] <kenvandine> * Snapped the latest thunderbird beta
[14:40] <kenvandine> * Helped advocacy team with some snaps
[14:40] <kenvandine> EOF
[14:40] <willcooke_> thanks kenvandine
[14:40] <willcooke_> #topic Laney
[14:41] <Laney> o bit of post-holiday catching up
[14:41] <Laney> o snap seeding: allow specifying classic snaps as snap:foo/classic, awaiting review
[14:41] <Laney> o systemd user session: fix for session unlocking, start pushing wip branches, need to integrate stuff in build system for g-s-d and update some scripts in gnome-session then can push that one & report to the upstream bug to hopefully get some feedback (or maybe people will try it and can chat at fosdem)
[14:41] <Laney> o some reviews for andyrock
[14:41] <Laney> o little bit of mitigation work for spectre stuff on autopkgtest, also block some people who were crawling the web interface
[14:41] <Laney> o start looking at debian gnome-in-git stuff, thx jbicha for working on that
[14:41] <Laney> ?
[14:41] <willcooke_> thanks Laney
[14:41] <Laney> I can see my own emoji now that I'm on tmux
[14:41] <Laney> it's a beautiful day
[14:41] <willcooke_> I can't see it now
[14:41] <willcooke_> :(
[14:41] <Laney> :<
[14:41] <seb128> I saw a question mark this time :/
[14:41] <willcooke_> sam
[14:42] <willcooke_> e
[14:42] <Laney> you poor people
[14:42] <oSoMoN> it was an utf-8 question mark
[14:42] <seb128> lol
[14:42] <willcooke_> I will deal with this later ;)
[14:42] <willcooke_> #topic oSoMoN
[14:43] <oSoMoN> hey
[14:43] <oSoMoN> • firefox: tested snap
[14:43] <oSoMoN> • chromium
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ bug triaging
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ updated chromium beta to 64.0.3282.39 and updated snap in beta channel
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ updated chromium dev to 65.0.3298.3 and updated snap in edge channel
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ switched back to upstream desktop-gtk3 part and used DISABLE_WAYLAND=1
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ verified that the snap issue with nvidia proprietary drivers is gone with snapd 2.30, on hardware I had access to during holidays
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ next round of updates pending LP builders availability: stable 63.0.3239.132, beta 64.0.3282.71, dev 65.0.3311.3
[14:43] <oSoMoN> • libreoffice
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ updated snap to 5.4.4 and successfully built locally, waiting on LP builders to produce an official build
[14:43] <oSoMoN>   ∘ filed https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114915 and submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/47605/
[14:43] <oSoMoN> that's it from me
[14:43] <willcooke_> thanks oSoMoN
[14:43] <willcooke_> #topic seb128
[14:43] <seb128> * just back yesterday
[14:43] <seb128> * catching up on emails and what has been going on
[14:43] <seb128> * reviewed the team plans to start getting ready for the review meeting next week

[14:44] <willcooke_> thanks seb128
[14:44] <willcooke_> #topic tkamppeter
[14:44] <willcooke_> - GSoC 2018
[14:44] <willcooke_>    o Filled mentoring org application forms for the Linux Foundation application
[14:44] <willcooke_>    o Created project idea web pages for the Linux Foundation
[14:44] <willcooke_>    o Listed the project ideas for OpenPrinting on the web pages: 14 ideas (mentors urgently needed)
[14:44] <willcooke_> - cups-filters: Improvements on the driverless printing PPD generator to use human-readable strings from CUPS
[14:44] <willcooke_> - printer drivers: Lexmark wants to make use of the new PCLm CUPS filter of GSoC 2017
[14:44] <willcooke_> - Bugs
[14:45] <willcooke_> #topic Trevinho
[14:45] <Trevinho> · Fixed others gjs issues and make it less strict on JS memory errors
[14:45] <Trevinho> · Reviews of some gnome bugs
[14:45] <Trevinho> · Fixed the encoding of gnome-shell screencast when using scaled fb (new scaling)
[14:45] <Trevinho> · Looking at fprintd integration
[14:45] <Trevinho>  ···
[14:45] <willcooke_> thanks Trevinho
[14:45] <willcooke_> #topic robert_ancell
[14:46] <willcooke_> - Back from holidays
[14:46] <willcooke_> - update snapd-glib for changes in snapd
[14:46] <willcooke_> - working on guest session support
[14:46] <willcooke_> #topic AOB
[14:46] <willcooke_> didrocks, you're up
[14:46] <didrocks> so, Nautilus…
[14:47] <didrocks> as most of you know, they are removing the desktop feature in 3.28
[14:47] <didrocks> this leaves up for the LTS with some options (I'll had the link reference later on):
[14:47] <didrocks> - keep nautilus 3.26 for the LTS (and still enable the desktop feature in our session)
[14:47] <didrocks> pro: it works
[14:47]  * seb128 votes that one
[14:47]  * willcooke_ seconds
[14:47] <didrocks> cons: we are are not updating to latest
[14:48] <didrocks> - switch for desktop only to someting else like nemo
[14:48] <didrocks> pro: upstream suggests this
[14:48] <didrocks> cons: it's crazy, we are not going to support another code base for the LTS in addition to Nautilus
[14:48] <didrocks> also, it might not integrate well
[14:48] <didrocks> create new bugs
[14:48] <didrocks> - update nautilus to 3.28 and ship/work on the extension for G-S
[14:48] <didrocks> pro: long term solution
[14:49] <didrocks> cons: not enough time IMHO to deal with it
[14:49] <didrocks> will be detremendous to other options
[14:49] <seb128> does that extension exist?
[14:49] <didrocks> and other bug fixes
[14:49] <didrocks> it does
[14:49] <didrocks> it's a prototype though
[14:49] <seb128> in a working/feature complete state?
[14:49] <didrocks> have a lot of lacking feature
[14:49] <seb128> k
[14:49] <didrocks> and doesn't integrate DnD from Nautilus to desktop for instance
[14:49] <willcooke_> I say we stick with what we know works
[14:49] <jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons < is the extension
[14:49] <Trevinho> I guess integrating with nautilus is the hardest part, as it would probably need some new APIs
[14:49] <didrocks> I would suggest we keep Nautilus 3.26, and work on the extension in parallel
[14:49] <Trevinho> so, not really something we could reuse easily
[14:50] <oSoMoN> is there a clear development schedule for that extension?
[14:50] <Trevinho> yeah, agree
[14:50] <seb128> no
[14:50] <didrocks> as we will be likely be the only ones wanting this with some of the communities
[14:50] <seb128> csoriano doesn't plan to work on it
[14:50] <didrocks> there are items to get worked out on the issue tracker
[14:50] <jbicha> I think option 1 is what upstream expected from us, although I'm sure they hoped Canonical would choose option 3 now and help make it great
[14:50] <didrocks> but it's more a PoC
[14:50] <didrocks> we will need to work on it for keeping the desktop if it's what we want in the long term
[14:50] <didrocks> that will give us spare time, post FF, to work on it IMHO
[14:50] <didrocks> (I'm happy to have a look after March)
[14:50] <seb128> option 1 is what I told upstream on IRC we would likely do before holidays
[14:51] <didrocks> sounds like there is not surprise in this meeting, I was for option 1 as well :)
[14:51] <oSoMoN> sounds like option 1 is the only reasonable one
[14:51] <didrocks> no*
[14:51] <oSoMoN> so not much choice
[14:51] <seb128> one option we didn't list (but I don't know how doable it is) is to to distro patch revert the feature drop in 3.28
[14:51] <didrocks> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons/issues/1
[14:51] <didrocks> FYI is what is mainly lacking ^
[14:51] <seb128> but my understanding is that they drop the code because it blocks some refactoring they want to do
[14:51] <jbicha> I think we should consider disabling desktop icons by default even though it makes sense to stay with nautilus 3.26 for 18.04
[14:52] <seb128> so probably not easy to revert
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: basically, Nautilus will have a real backend at some point
[14:52] <didrocks> (unsure if it's for 3.28)
[14:52] <didrocks> from that point, reverting will be really hard
[14:52] <oSoMoN> is nautilus 3.26 going to work well with the rest of the stack being 3.28 ?
[14:52] <Trevinho> jbicha: mh, not sure... I'm not a lover of them, but still otherwise it's just an empty space to me.
[14:52] <didrocks> however, from the extension, we need to help shaping the backend API
[14:52] <Trevinho> and people is used to have them around
[14:52] <didrocks> which is why it's interesting to contribute ASAP
[14:53] <Trevinho> oSoMoN: normally apps aren't broken in such cases
[14:53] <jbicha> Trevinho: I'm not saying we need to disable desktop icons; I think we should think about it though :)
[14:53] <seb128> oSoMoN, yes, it's mostly an application
[14:53] <didrocks> if people are interested in more details about the topic: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/issues/158
[14:53] <Trevinho> also so far gnome 3.28 in terms of G-S/muttter changes isn't really a thing.. At least unless they won't merge the fractional branches! :-|
[14:54] <Trevinho> jbicha: yeah, sure... I just said my opinion :)
[14:54] <jbicha> also a useful link: > https://csorianognome.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/nautilus-desktop-plans/
[14:54] <didrocks> let's focus on 18.04 for now
[14:54] <seb128> didrocks, I think it would be nice to help/work on that but that feels like post-LTS, or at least not before the features that are important for the LTS land
[14:54] <jibel> to reply to jbicha disabling desktop icons by default will be a problem for the live session which has the installer, examples and oem setup icons on the desktop
[14:54]  * Trevinho loves working with gnome's gitlab, btw :)
[14:54] <didrocks> I think keeping the desktop drawing icons make sense, we have a big transition already for LTS users (unity -> G-S)
[14:54] <didrocks> seb128: exactly my point (this is why I envision post FF)
[14:55] <jibel> if desktop icons are disabled these links should be moved to the launcher
[14:55] <seb128> let's see post FF what is most needed
[14:55] <didrocks> yep
[14:55] <didrocks> so, I guess +1 for staying on nautilus 3.26 for the LTS?
[14:55] <seb128> ubiquity is already in the launcher, examples might get removed from the desktop this cycle from what willcooke was saying
[14:55] <seb128> oem setup I don't know
[14:56] <seb128> didrocks, seems we have concensus on that option yes
[14:56] <seb128> thanks for bringing the topic up :)
[14:56] <didrocks> yw ;)
[14:56] <willcooke_> cool
[14:56] <willcooke_> anyone got anything else?
[14:56] <jbicha> (I support the nautilus 3.26 choice this cycle too)
[14:56] <didrocks> I'll put a reference on the community hub
[14:56] <willcooke_> thanks didrocks
[14:57] <willcooke_> ok, if there is nothing else, I will end the meeting
[14:57] <jbicha> the other concerned Ubuntu flavors (Budgie & Unity) should prepare for nautilus 3.28/3.30 for 18.10 though
[14:58] <seb128> what do they need to prepare?
[14:58] <jbicha> maybe something like the nemo-desktop app hack will actually work good enough for them
[14:58] <seb128> ah, to have a desktop
[14:58] <didrocks> yep, no G-S extension for them
[14:58] <gQuigs> is there a plan for what to use all that wasted space where people expect a desktop?  I can't find it in the design docs..
[14:58] <jbicha> they need to know that we don't necessarily plan to stay on nautilus 3.26 for long
[14:58] <seb128> or just switch away from nautilus to nemo
[14:59] <didrocks> I'll probably blog about it anyway on planet ubuntu (not this week, but maybe next one)
[14:59] <didrocks> that way, they will get the memo and 6 months to prepare a plan :)
[14:59] <jbicha> gQuigs: the idea is you use all that space for your running apps and don't spend time looking at an empty desktop ;)
[15:00] <gQuigs> jbicha: right, but it loads by default to an empty desktop (right?), so everyone has to look at it...
[15:00] <seb128> typical GNOME wishful thinking wanting users to behave as they expect and not as they do :p
[15:00] <mdeslaur> who cares about users? ;)
[15:00] <jbicha> gQuigs: GNOME 3 has always disabled desktop icons by default (so that's nearly 7 years now)
[15:00] <seb128> exactly, especially those who don't use the computer the way we tell them!
[15:00] <gQuigs> jbicha: yup, I was just expecting something to eventually happen with that space... oh qwll
[15:00] <seb128> willcooke_, you should wrap :)
[15:00] <willcooke_> #endmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  9 15:00:55 2018 UTC.
[15:00] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-01-09-14.31.moin.txt
[15:00] <willcooke_> thanks seb128
[15:00] <gQuigs> I'll have my launchpad triage group target nautilus this week
[15:01] <seb128> thanks
[15:01] <didrocks> thanks!
[15:01] <jbicha> gQuigs: I mean GNOME could do like the iPhone and have the "desktop" be the same thing as the app launcher
[15:01] <seb128> at least that would be a rational for not letting files on there
[15:02] <gQuigs> +1
[15:02] <jbicha> they might even do that, but that would make it even more difficult for people who want to override the default to have desktop icons
[15:02] <seb128> I don't think it would make sense to override the default in that case
[15:02] <seb128> the desktop would become something else, deal with it
[15:02] <didrocks> and posted
[15:02] <seb128> it's just now that they force you into wasting the space
[15:02] <gQuigs> jbicha: no reason to override it, most people just wants link to click there.. they'd get it
[15:02] <seb128> which is stupid
[15:04] <gQuigs> heh, I'll go suggest it
[15:05] <jbicha> there was talk about reworking the Activites Overview to make it feel more integrated or something
[15:44] <gQuigs> that was what they originally did (I don't remember that), but it was more confusing apparently
[15:44] <gQuigs> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648456
[17:00] <willcooke_> andyrock, was it you working on the gnome disks patch to hide loop devices?
[17:01] <seb128> willcooke_, it was him it's up for review on https://github.com/storaged-project/udisks/pull/460
[17:02] <seb128> andyrock, it's probably worth trying to give upstream a nudge about that review?
[17:02] <andyrock> yeah was checking that
[17:02] <andyrock> i'll ping them
[17:03] <seb128> thx
[17:03] <willcooke_> thx seb128 andyrock
[17:09] <willcooke_> andyrock, seb128 are you aware of something that could be done at a lower level, that would apply to the whole desktop?
[17:09] <seb128> you mean?
[17:09] <andyrock> where is the problem?
[17:10] <andyrock> like for nautilus we can ignore it
[17:10] <andyrock> the provided solution is already lower enough for most uses
[17:10] <willcooke_> KDE have the same issue, and they felt that patching it out app by app was a bit of a pain
[17:10] <willcooke_> wondering if you have any clever ideas
[17:11] <andyrock> yeah that's the idea behind that patch
[17:11] <andyrock> we use a userspace mount option
[17:11] <andyrock> x-gdu.hide
[17:11] <andyrock> kde can check for the same mount options
[17:11] <andyrock> now I know that here gdu stands for "gnome-disk-utilities"
[17:12] <andyrock> but that should not be an issue
[17:12] <andyrock> we can easily change the name of the mount options
[17:12] <andyrock> if this is needed at all
[17:12] <willcooke_> andyrock, so if that goes in, would it help KDE as well?
[17:12] <willcooke_> or *could* it?
[17:13] <andyrock> they still need to patch the apps to check if a device was mounted with that option
[17:13] <andyrock> but at least is generic
[17:14] <andyrock> oooor we could also mount the snaps with the udiks ignore
[17:14] <willcooke_> thanks andyrock
[17:14] <andyrock> the problem was that gnome-disk-utilies does not (and does not want) to take that flag into considerations
[17:15] <andyrock> but I guess they already are considering that nautilus does not show them
[17:16] <andyrock> willcooke_: ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}
[17:16] <andyrock> check this
[17:16] <andyrock> I guess snaps are not using this
[17:17] <andyrock> also because I remember I wrote some rules to add this
[18:28] <willcooke_> what's the comand to show why a package is installed?
[18:28] <willcooke_> *command
[18:30]  * willcooke_ checks rdepends
[19:28] <willcooke_> night all
[20:21] <oSoMoN> night
[23:52] <tkamppeter> kenvandine, hi