willcookeseb128, thinking about discoverability of update "Software and updates"...  you think we should have a panel in settings for it, or at least a way to launch it?07:12
seb128willcooke, maybe, if we find a clean design / way to present it there?07:13
dufluwillcooke, +1. I think I logged a bug for that?...07:14
willcookeafternoon duflu07:14
dufluMorning? willcooke07:14
dufluwillcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/169096407:15
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1690964 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "All Settings in Gnome Shell is missing 'Software & Updates' icon" [Low,Confirmed]07:15
willcookethanks duflu, I think we need this fixed for 18.0407:19
dufluwillcooke, yeah I thought so. Although that bug is against the old Settings design. Same problem still07:19
willcookeThe new settings app is also.... odd. The order of the settings seems random-ish07:20
seb128imho there is no easy fix07:22
seb128we are not going again the road of adding an entry that acts as a launcher of external program being different from everything else?07:22
dufluMaybe we'd need to. It's not a trivial dialog to rewrite and replace07:23
willcookeThe sound panel has a tabbed interface, I think we should just port the old panel in there07:24
seb128I don't understand the issue07:24
willcookeWe need to make updates more discoverable07:24
oSoMoNgood morning desktoppers07:24
willcookeNormal users aren't going to search for updates07:24
dufluMorning oSoMoN07:24
seb128software-properties doesn't make updates discoverable07:24
oSoMoNhey duflu, willcooke, seb12807:24
seb128it just let you set up the sources & co07:24
seb128salut oSoMoN07:24
willcookeand it will let you switch on live patch in 18.0407:24
dufluFair point. It's not a normal user thing. But it is a Settings thing. It should be there eventually, but doesn't have to right now07:25
willcookeI think it needs to be there for LP to be found07:25
seb128that's another topic07:25
seb128and still isn't solving your issue of users not finding updates imho07:26
willcookethat LP and discoverability of updates are different07:26
seb128(lp=livepatch, not launchpad, for those confused)07:26
willcookeLooking at Software & Updates...Ubuntu Software = less important, other software = less important, updates = more important, auth = less, additonal drivers = less, dev options = less07:28
willcookeSo I think "Updates" from that app is the only thing we need to make easily discoverable07:28
willcookeeverything else is "advanced" enough to live in a different app and for users to have to go there07:29
willcooketo make changes07:29
willcookeSo I would propose that panel gets ported to Settings07:29
willcookeand a Live Patch one too07:30
willcookeor rather, add a LiveP. option to a new Updates option in serttings07:30
seb128it's a bit tricky/non trivial work, but you are the one deciding07:30
seb128I think that's going to be a month work for somebody in the team and distro patches to carry that can't be upstreamed07:31
seb128we probably need to find another feature to drop from the list if that's we want07:31
willcookeIs the settings app not plugin driven?  Thats surprising07:31
seb128they removed support for external panels07:32
seb128which is why we forked g-c-c to u-c-c at the time07:32
willcookeSo it's "their settings" or the highway?07:32
seb128typical GNOME "we set up the design, it's not an open bar"07:32
flexiondotorgMorning desktopers08:14
seb128hey flexiondotorg, how are you today?08:15
dufluMorning flexiondotorg08:15
flexiondotorgseb128: Good thanks. I'm looking forward to getting a project finished today 😉08:18
flexiondotorgActually found time to work on Ubuntu MATE 18.04 last night too.08:19
didrocksgood morning08:20
flexiondotorgShaping up nicely. Finally getting to the point where I'm really happy with Ubuntu MATE. Only took 3 and half years!08:20
flexiondotorgdidrocks: o/08:20
didrockshey flexiondotorg08:21
flexiondotorgI see IRC is the new mailing list for news coverage didrocks 😉08:22
seb128lut didrocks08:22
didrockssalut seb12808:22
didrocksflexiondotorg: looks like it, where there is a hub post as well as main source08:23
didrocksI'll blog about it on planet ubuntu/gnome on Tuesday, putting a proper announcement that people can reference08:23
seb128what's the fancy news?08:23
didrocksicons on desktop/nautilus version08:24
flexiondotorgSee OMG seb12808:24
didrocksyou probably didn't hear of it :p08:24
seb128flexiondotorg, I don't contribute to give audience to low standards press :)08:24
didrocksjibel: hey, in case I forget, can you remind that it's the last day for heber to review the GNOME software test (https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/5766612135182336/)?08:31
didrocksthis is the last GCI task on the list before closing it for this year08:31
jibeldidrocks, np08:41
jibelseb128, update-notifier in xenial-proposed works as expected. I faked update-manager.launch-time, tried after a reboot and a refresh of the package cache. Any other case to verify ?08:54
seb128jibel, not that I think of atm, thanks for testing08:54
jibelverification-done then08:59
Laneyhey ho09:03
didrocksho hey09:06
seb128hey Laney09:07
oSoMoNhi Laney09:09
flexiondotorgLaney: o/09:11
Laneyhey didrocks seb128 oSoMoN flexiondotorg09:12
Laney\o_° D R E A M  T E A M °_o/09:12
flexiondotorgTeam, team, team, team, team.09:13
didrocksTEAM! :)09:13
dufluHmm, hi Laney09:31
dufluand TEAM09:32
=== ecloud_wfh is now known as ecloud
oSoMoNricotz, hey, I'm preparing 5.4.4 for bionic and I'm seeing autopkgtest failures, does that ring a bell? https://paste.ubuntu.com/26410322/12:14
ricotzoSoMoN, hi, look somehow familiar, I assume you based on the wip branch?12:21
ricotzoSoMoN, pushing 5.4.4 to bionic makes the sru to artful easier?12:22
ricotz(otherwise 6.0.0~rc2 would not be a bad idea)12:22
oSoMoNricotz, yes, pushing 5.4.4 to bionic is a prerequisite for the SRU12:23
oSoMoNricotz, yes, based on your wip branch + apparmor fixes12:23
ricotzsorry, no idea about the failure atm12:25
* ricotz is bound at another project currently12:26
oSoMoNno worries, it was worth asking :)12:26
ricotzoSoMoN, was firefox already handed to you?12:27
xnoxLaney, didrocks, hidpi plymouth on my laptop, now, I repeat hidpi plymouth on my laptop now =)13:48
didrocksxnox: I'll be happy to review your patch! :)13:57
xnoxdidrocks, it's just a merge =)13:57
xnoxdidrocks, i'll throw it into bionic-proposed soon, and you can test it from there.13:58
didrocksxnox: waowwww, I thought it was a request!13:58
xnoxas in.... I have hidpi plymouth on my laptop, right now =)13:58
didrocksI don't have hidpi screen, but I'm sure Trevinho will test it and duflu as well with his bionic eyes :p13:59
didrocksexcellent news!13:59
didrocksnot too many chances to our splash screen?13:59
xnoxdidrocks, i didn't have to change anything, but i'm not sure if it is broken or not. This is the first time i can look at it in years, without a magnifying glass13:59
didrocksxnox: the logo is becoming small I guess?14:00
willcookenice, thanks xnox14:03
xnoxdidrocks, well now, on my laptop the logo is of normal size. previously it was teeny winny tiny14:15
* xnox has 4k laptop screen14:15
xnoxdidrocks, do you get plymouth on shutdown?14:15
* xnox doesn't seem to have it on shutdown.14:15
didrocksxnox: hum, I need to watch for it tonight, when I'll shut it down. I'll keep you posted (can reboot right now, too many windows and hacking the Shell :p)14:16
xnoxdidrocks, well, we could change the theme, or the gdm, such that e.g. unlock LUKS field matches where the login intput will be.14:17
xnoxdidrocks, or e.g. move the boot splash logo down to where the gdm logo will be14:17
xnoxwhy am I not getting flicker free boot14:17
Laneyxnox: nice14:18
xnoxhow does gdm supposed to integrate with plymouth in the latest greatest?14:18
xnoxouch =/ i see plymouth dumping core after gdm starts14:19
didrocksxnox: hum, unsure if moving the logo down will look great on plymouth though14:20
didrocksah, exit with segfault? :)14:20
xnoxoh, it might be plymouth from initramfs crashing, somehow.14:26
xnoxcause the pid is different.14:26
xnoxalso not sure, if this is due to wayland.14:26
xnoxthat i can (a) see messages on the screen (b) do not get smooth gdm transition14:26
seb128mdeslaur, hey, thanks for handling the update-notifier update in security14:27
czajkowskianyone in here going to FOSDEM in 2 weeks time?14:29
willcookehey czajkowski14:30
seb128hey czajkowski, yes quite some people14:30
mdeslaurseb128: yw!14:31
czajkowskiyay :D14:31
czajkowskiwillcooke: ola!14:31
czajkowskiwas going to suggest an Ubuntu hour/catch up with that many people in one city surely it's possible14:32
seb128should be indeed14:32
xnoxok, i had failing jobs, hence systemd would start printing messages on the console.14:39
xnoxi still get flickers though..... from grub to plymouth; from plymouth to gdm14:39
xnoxand i still have plymouth coredumping14:40
xnoxi think i got flickerfree transition from plymouth to gdm, with X now, but not from grub -> plymouth15:14
xnoxdidrocks, can we please use blur instead of radial gradient shadow in shell?15:34
didrocksxnox: no blur support in the css15:35
xnox(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻15:35
didrocksI'm always surprised by the new UTF8 characters you are using :)15:35
xnoxdidrocks, there is blur in css.... https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css3_pr_filter.asp15:37
xnoxsee Blur Example... or you mean not in shell-css?15:37
didrocksxnox: I meant the shell css ofc15:38
xnoxthere seems to be an extension that does it.15:38
didrocksintereing, I wonder how15:38
didrocksbecause this is one of the reason they didn't go all transparent on top panel15:39
didrocksno good enough blur support for the date & other text15:39
xnoxFor one, this extension does not (currently) add blur effects to other parts of the GNOME Shell UI, like popovers, panels, and switchers. That means you don’t get nicely blurred backgrounds in menus when using the United GNOME theme or when using the Dynamic Panel Transparency add-on.15:39
xnoxnot sure if "can't do" or "didn't want to do"15:39
xnoxdidrocks, it's just when you get  the "enter password" dialogs, the whole radial black to white spot light looks like poor desktop design from the 90x15:40
xnoxdidrocks, it's just when you get  the "enter password" dialogs, the whole radial black to white spot light looks like poor desktop design from the 90s15:40
didrocksxnox: you should discuss that on the communitheme thread btw, as they are redesigning the theme15:41
xnoxdidrocks, meh15:58
jibelmdeslaur, I verified update-notifier 3.168.7 from xenial-proposed. it works as  expected.16:28
mdeslaurjibel: cool, thanks16:30
pittihey folks!16:36
pittidoes ubuntu have a package with the appstream metadata? fedora calls it "appstream-data", but Debian doesn't seem to have that at least16:37
pittithere is https://packages.debian.org/sid/appstream-index but it's transitional and pointing to "appstream" which has the tools, but not the data16:38
pittiis that somehow already shipped in apt's metadata?16:38
pittiLaney: ^16:38
Laneyhey pitti16:38
Laneyyeh, it comes with the repo16:39
pittiLaney: so does one still need to install the "appstream" package, to get /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream and actually activate that?16:39
pittigreat, thank you!16:40
Laneygnome-software depends on it16:40
pittisee you at FOSDEM?16:40
Laneyyou bet!16:40
pittiGet:4 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing/main amd64 DEP-11 Metadata [3,004 kB]16:44
Laneymight want to fix the screenshots :P16:44
Laneytime... to... SWIM!18:02
Laneyboring though18:03
Laneyi'm going to crack and go climbing again soon, can feel it18:03
oSoMoNclimbing >> swimming, definitely18:21

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