[07:12] <willcooke> seb128, thinking about discoverability of update "Software and updates"...  you think we should have a panel in settings for it, or at least a way to launch it?
[07:13] <seb128> willcooke, maybe, if we find a clean design / way to present it there?
[07:14] <duflu> willcooke, +1. I think I logged a bug for that?...
[07:14] <willcooke> afternoon duflu
[07:14] <duflu> Morning? willcooke
[07:14] <willcooke> :)
[07:15] <duflu> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1690964
[07:19] <willcooke> thanks duflu, I think we need this fixed for 18.04
[07:19] <duflu> willcooke, yeah I thought so. Although that bug is against the old Settings design. Same problem still
[07:20] <willcooke> The new settings app is also.... odd. The order of the settings seems random-ish
[07:22] <seb128> imho there is no easy fix
[07:22] <seb128> we are not going again the road of adding an entry that acts as a launcher of external program being different from everything else?
[07:23] <duflu> Maybe we'd need to. It's not a trivial dialog to rewrite and replace
[07:24] <willcooke> The sound panel has a tabbed interface, I think we should just port the old panel in there
[07:24] <seb128> I don't understand the issue
[07:24] <willcooke> We need to make updates more discoverable
[07:24] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:24] <willcooke> Normal users aren't going to search for updates
[07:24] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[07:24] <seb128> software-properties doesn't make updates discoverable
[07:24] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, willcooke, seb128
[07:24] <seb128> it just let you set up the sources & co
[07:24] <seb128> salut oSoMoN
[07:24] <willcooke> and it will let you switch on live patch in 18.04
[07:25] <duflu> Fair point. It's not a normal user thing. But it is a Settings thing. It should be there eventually, but doesn't have to right now
[07:25] <willcooke> I think it needs to be there for LP to be found
[07:25] <seb128> that's another topic
[07:25] <willcooke> kk
[07:26] <willcooke> agreed
[07:26] <seb128> and still isn't solving your issue of users not finding updates imho
[07:26] <willcooke> that LP and discoverability of updates are different
[07:26] <seb128> (lp=livepatch, not launchpad, for those confused)
[07:28] <willcooke> Looking at Software & Updates...Ubuntu Software = less important, other software = less important, updates = more important, auth = less, additonal drivers = less, dev options = less
[07:28] <willcooke> So I think "Updates" from that app is the only thing we need to make easily discoverable
[07:29] <willcooke> everything else is "advanced" enough to live in a different app and for users to have to go there
[07:29] <willcooke> to make changes
[07:29] <willcooke> So I would propose that panel gets ported to Settings
[07:30] <willcooke> and a Live Patch one too
[07:30] <willcooke> or rather, add a LiveP. option to a new Updates option in serttings
[07:30] <seb128> it's a bit tricky/non trivial work, but you are the one deciding
[07:31] <seb128> I think that's going to be a month work for somebody in the team and distro patches to carry that can't be upstreamed
[07:31] <seb128> we probably need to find another feature to drop from the list if that's we want
[07:31] <willcooke> Is the settings app not plugin driven?  Thats surprising
[07:32] <seb128> no
[07:32] <seb128> they removed support for external panels
[07:32] <seb128> which is why we forked g-c-c to u-c-c at the time
[07:32] <willcooke> So it's "their settings" or the highway?
[07:32] <seb128> typical GNOME "we set up the design, it's not an open bar"
[07:32] <willcooke> ?!
[07:32] <seb128> yes
[07:32] <willcooke> wow
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[08:15] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you today?
[08:15] <duflu> Morning flexiondotorg
[08:18] <flexiondotorg> seb128: Good thanks. I'm looking forward to getting a project finished today 😉
[08:19] <flexiondotorg> Actually found time to work on Ubuntu MATE 18.04 last night too.
[08:20] <didrocks> good morning
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> Shaping up nicely. Finally getting to the point where I'm really happy with Ubuntu MATE. Only took 3 and half years!
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> didrocks: o/
[08:21] <didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
[08:22] <flexiondotorg> I see IRC is the new mailing list for news coverage didrocks 😉
[08:22] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:22] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:23] <didrocks> flexiondotorg: looks like it, where there is a hub post as well as main source
[08:23] <didrocks> I'll blog about it on planet ubuntu/gnome on Tuesday, putting a proper announcement that people can reference
[08:23] <flexiondotorg> Brilliant
[08:23] <seb128> what's the fancy news?
[08:24] <didrocks> icons on desktop/nautilus version
[08:24] <flexiondotorg> See OMG seb128
[08:24] <didrocks> you probably didn't hear of it :p
[08:24] <seb128> flexiondotorg, I don't contribute to give audience to low standards press :)
[08:31] <didrocks> jibel: hey, in case I forget, can you remind that it's the last day for heber to review the GNOME software test (https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/5766612135182336/)?
[08:31] <didrocks> this is the last GCI task on the list before closing it for this year
[08:41] <jibel> didrocks, np
[08:42] <didrocks> thanks!
[08:54] <jibel> seb128, update-notifier in xenial-proposed works as expected. I faked update-manager.launch-time, tried after a reboot and a refresh of the package cache. Any other case to verify ?
[08:54] <seb128> jibel, not that I think of atm, thanks for testing
[08:59] <jibel> verification-done then
[09:03] <Laney> hey ho
[09:06] <didrocks> ho hey
[09:07] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:09] <oSoMoN> hi Laney
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> Laney: o/
[09:12] <Laney> hey didrocks seb128 oSoMoN flexiondotorg
[09:12] <Laney> \o_° D R E A M  T E A M °_o/
[09:13] <flexiondotorg> Team, team, team, team, team.
[09:13] <didrocks> TEAM! :)
[09:15] <flexiondotorg> https://youtu.be/XRPUoz1TYro
[09:27] <Laney> :D
[09:31] <duflu> Hmm, hi Laney
[09:32] <duflu> and TEAM
[12:14] <oSoMoN> ricotz, hey, I'm preparing 5.4.4 for bionic and I'm seeing autopkgtest failures, does that ring a bell? https://paste.ubuntu.com/26410322/
[12:21] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, look somehow familiar, I assume you based on the wip branch?
[12:22] <ricotz> oSoMoN, pushing 5.4.4 to bionic makes the sru to artful easier?
[12:22] <ricotz> (otherwise 6.0.0~rc2 would not be a bad idea)
[12:23] <oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, pushing 5.4.4 to bionic is a prerequisite for the SRU
[12:23] <ricotz> alright
[12:23] <oSoMoN> ricotz, yes, based on your wip branch + apparmor fixes
[12:25] <ricotz> good
[12:25] <ricotz> sorry, no idea about the failure atm
[12:26]  * ricotz is bound at another project currently
[12:26] <oSoMoN> no worries, it was worth asking :)
[12:27] <ricotz> oSoMoN, was firefox already handed to you?
[12:30] <oSoMoN> no
[13:48] <xnox> Laney, didrocks, hidpi plymouth on my laptop, now, I repeat hidpi plymouth on my laptop now =)
[13:57] <didrocks> xnox: I'll be happy to review your patch! :)
[13:57] <xnox> didrocks, it's just a merge =)
[13:58] <xnox> didrocks, i'll throw it into bionic-proposed soon, and you can test it from there.
[13:58] <didrocks> xnox: waowwww, I thought it was a request!
[13:58] <xnox> as in.... I have hidpi plymouth on my laptop, right now =)
[13:59] <didrocks> I don't have hidpi screen, but I'm sure Trevinho will test it and duflu as well with his bionic eyes :p
[13:59] <didrocks> excellent news!
[13:59] <didrocks> not too many chances to our splash screen?
[13:59] <xnox> didrocks, i didn't have to change anything, but i'm not sure if it is broken or not. This is the first time i can look at it in years, without a magnifying glass
[14:00] <didrocks> xnox: the logo is becoming small I guess?
[14:03] <willcooke> nice, thanks xnox
[14:15] <xnox> didrocks, well now, on my laptop the logo is of normal size. previously it was teeny winny tiny
[14:15]  * xnox has 4k laptop screen
[14:15] <xnox> didrocks, do you get plymouth on shutdown?
[14:15] <xnox> normally
[14:15]  * xnox doesn't seem to have it on shutdown.
[14:16] <didrocks> xnox: hum, I need to watch for it tonight, when I'll shut it down. I'll keep you posted (can reboot right now, too many windows and hacking the Shell :p)
[14:17] <xnox> didrocks, well, we could change the theme, or the gdm, such that e.g. unlock LUKS field matches where the login intput will be.
[14:17] <xnox> didrocks, or e.g. move the boot splash logo down to where the gdm logo will be
[14:17] <xnox> argh
[14:17] <xnox> why am I not getting flicker free boot
[14:17] <xnox> =(
[14:18] <Laney> xnox: nice
[14:18] <xnox> how does gdm supposed to integrate with plymouth in the latest greatest?
[14:19] <xnox> ouch =/ i see plymouth dumping core after gdm starts
[14:20] <didrocks> xnox: hum, unsure if moving the logo down will look great on plymouth though
[14:20] <didrocks> ah, exit with segfault? :)
[14:20] <xnox> possibly
[14:26] <xnox> oh, it might be plymouth from initramfs crashing, somehow.
[14:26] <xnox> cause the pid is different.
[14:26] <xnox> also not sure, if this is due to wayland.
[14:26] <xnox> that i can (a) see messages on the screen (b) do not get smooth gdm transition
[14:27] <seb128> mdeslaur, hey, thanks for handling the update-notifier update in security
[14:29] <czajkowski> anyone in here going to FOSDEM in 2 weeks time?
[14:30] <willcooke> hey czajkowski
[14:30] <seb128> hey czajkowski, yes quite some people
[14:31] <mdeslaur> seb128: yw!
[14:31] <czajkowski> yay :D
[14:31] <czajkowski> willcooke: ola!
[14:32] <czajkowski> was going to suggest an Ubuntu hour/catch up with that many people in one city surely it's possible
[14:32] <seb128> should be indeed
[14:39] <xnox> ok, i had failing jobs, hence systemd would start printing messages on the console.
[14:39] <xnox> i still get flickers though..... from grub to plymouth; from plymouth to gdm
[14:40] <xnox> and i still have plymouth coredumping
[15:14] <xnox> i think i got flickerfree transition from plymouth to gdm, with X now, but not from grub -> plymouth
[15:34] <xnox> didrocks, can we please use blur instead of radial gradient shadow in shell?
[15:35] <didrocks> xnox: no blur support in the css
[15:35] <xnox> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
[15:35] <didrocks> I'm always surprised by the new UTF8 characters you are using :)
[15:37] <xnox> didrocks, there is blur in css.... https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css3_pr_filter.asp
[15:37] <xnox> see Blur Example... or you mean not in shell-css?
[15:38] <didrocks> xnox: I meant the shell css ofc
[15:38] <xnox> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/blyr-gnome-shell-blur-extension
[15:38] <xnox> there seems to be an extension that does it.
[15:38] <didrocks> intereing, I wonder how
[15:39] <didrocks> because this is one of the reason they didn't go all transparent on top panel
[15:39] <didrocks> no good enough blur support for the date & other text
[15:39] <xnox> For one, this extension does not (currently) add blur effects to other parts of the GNOME Shell UI, like popovers, panels, and switchers. That means you don’t get nicely blurred backgrounds in menus when using the United GNOME theme or when using the Dynamic Panel Transparency add-on.
[15:39] <xnox> ..
[15:39] <xnox> not sure if "can't do" or "didn't want to do"
[15:40] <xnox> didrocks, it's just when you get  the "enter password" dialogs, the whole radial black to white spot light looks like poor desktop design from the 90x
[15:40] <xnox> didrocks, it's just when you get  the "enter password" dialogs, the whole radial black to white spot light looks like poor desktop design from the 90s
[15:41] <didrocks> xnox: you should discuss that on the communitheme thread btw, as they are redesigning the theme
[15:58] <xnox> didrocks, meh
[16:28] <jibel> mdeslaur, I verified update-notifier 3.168.7 from xenial-proposed. it works as  expected.
[16:30] <mdeslaur> jibel: cool, thanks
[16:36] <pitti> hey folks!
[16:37] <pitti> does ubuntu have a package with the appstream metadata? fedora calls it "appstream-data", but Debian doesn't seem to have that at least
[16:38] <pitti> there is https://packages.debian.org/sid/appstream-index but it's transitional and pointing to "appstream" which has the tools, but not the data
[16:38] <pitti> is that somehow already shipped in apt's metadata?
[16:38] <pitti> Laney: ^
[16:38] <Laney> hey pitti
[16:39] <Laney> yeh, it comes with the repo
[16:39] <Laney> dists/suite/component/dep11/
[16:39] <pitti> Laney: so does one still need to install the "appstream" package, to get /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream and actually activate that?
[16:40] <Laney> yeah
[16:40] <pitti> great, thank you!
[16:40] <Laney> gnome-software depends on it
[16:40] <pitti> see you at FOSDEM?
[16:40] <Laney> you bet!
[16:44] <pitti> Get:4 http://deb.debian.org/debian testing/main amd64 DEP-11 Metadata [3,004 kB]
[16:44] <pitti> \o/
[16:44] <Laney> btw
[16:44] <Laney> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/bionic/universe/issues/cockpit.html
[16:44] <Laney> might want to fix the screenshots :P
[16:45] <pitti> heh
[18:02] <Laney> time... to... SWIM!
[18:03] <Laney> boring though
[18:03] <Laney> i'm going to crack and go climbing again soon, can feel it
[18:03] <Laney> o/
[18:21] <oSoMoN> climbing >> swimming, definitely