[07:06] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:29] <jamespage> tobasco: hmm not sure I'm keen on doing that - its really all rather non-optimal using the wsgi standalone entry point - single process, parameters for listen port configuration
[09:22] <tobasco> jamespage: im unsure on how i would resolve this in upstream ci, i cant test gnocchi with panko and nova-placement-api on the same node
[10:29] <jamespage> tobasco: hmm
[10:29] <jamespage> cause some are py2 and some are py3?
[10:30] <jamespage> sorry I'm away atm so a bit on and off irc
[10:47] <tobasco> jamespage: yea
[12:05] <tobasco> jamespage: that issue with gnocchi being py3 and the connectivity issue between nova and neutron will cause ubuntu to be dropped from upstream testing and therefore completely supported, so fixes will need to be commited upstream by users and is not tested :(
[12:12] <jamespage> coreycb: hmm ^^ I'd not considered this in the context of config management tools that still don't use containers to isolate services; so this is not a problem for kolla, helm, anisble or charms, but probably is for puppet and chef
[12:12] <jamespage> however I'm really loathe to lock step all openstack top level projects during the migration to py3 in terms of switchover
[12:13] <jamespage> coreycb: we could provide 'alternative' py2 deps so that this use case could be fulfilled.
[12:14] <jamespage> tobasco: would a python-gnocchi + gnocchi-common providing py2 bit work?
[12:52] <tobasco> jamespage: packaging gnocchi for py2 would work since i could run it in apache alongside the other projects
[12:53] <tobasco> i'm unsure when the python3 goals is suppose to be completed but i would support an effort to move over to py3 for all then
[12:53] <tobasco> perhaps it's already done, but there will always be some stuff missed i guess
[12:54] <tobasco> how would the dependencies on gnocchi-api package be then?
[13:08] <coreycb> jamespage: i think keeping py2 deps until all of openstack packages are py3 makes sense. once they all have py3 support, we can drop all py2 support.
[13:36] <frickler> coreycb: could you also provide a pike uca version for this? would make testing a bit easier for me https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1715417
[13:38] <coreycb> frickler: yes it's actually on the way to xenial-pike as well
[13:47] <frickler> coreycb: ah, great, thx
[15:55] <GivenToCode> anyone have a guide for creating a single node kubernetes cluster on ec2 that doesn't involve juju or conjur? just like the 5 or 6 commands to install and start everything
[15:56] <Neo4> how work mail?
[15:56] <Neo4> MTA mail transfer agent
[15:56] <teward> mind trying to use an actually understandable question?
[15:56] <teward> "how work mail" is not a question.
[15:57] <Neo4> MUA mail user agent what is it?
[15:57] <Neo4> teward: for me it's question, I dont know it )
[15:57] <Neo4> teward: let's break down scheme
[15:57] <mason> Neo4: You'd be well advised to get the Postfix book. It'll explain a lot that frankly you very much need to know.
[15:57] <Neo4> teward: exists MUA mail user agent, what is it ?
[15:58] <mason> A mail user agent would be, for example, Mutt, or Thunderbird, or Outlook, or the GMail web site.
[15:58] <Neo4> mason: I downloaded book 2005 years? I was advised to read only documentation on official site
[15:58] <mason> Neo4: https://www.amazon.com/Postfix-Definitive-Secure-Easy-Use/dp/0596002122/
[15:58] <mason> Neo4: But the concepts haven't changed since the 90s.
[15:59] <Neo4> mason: yes, I use thunderburd it is MUA, well, go on... MTA - mail transfer agen what is it?
[15:59] <Neo4> mason: I guessed, there all protocols will equal and it will useful to read
[16:00] <Neo4> mason: I'll read it after reading http://www.postfix.org/documentation.html
[16:00] <Neo4> mason: wait I show you book what I've got
[16:00] <mason> All good ideas.
[16:00] <mason> Any book ought to be useful.
[16:01] <Neo4> mason: this http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=852C79F689FEB77C5FDE686B993808B1
[16:02] <Neo4> 2005 years, it is 13 years out of date
[16:02] <Neo4> and more it was issued on 2005 and data there about 2005 ..... 2000
[16:02] <mason> Age won't matter much. You'll want to catch up on newish things like DKIM or SPF.
[16:03] <Neo4> mason: on this site only new 2008 and in Russian, I want to read in English http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?&req=postfix&phrase=0&view=simple&column=def&sort=year&sortmode=DESC
[16:04] <Neo4> on Amazon also not exists good books, all are old
[16:04] <ahasenack> rbasak: hi, git-ubuntu thinks samba in debian/sid is 2:4.7.1+dfsg-1, but rmadison says it's  2:4.7.4+dfsg-1
[16:04] <ahasenack> 01/18/2018 14:02:38 - ERROR:pkg/ubuntu/devel version (2:4.7.3+dfsg-1ubuntu1) is after debian/sid version (2:4.7.1+dfsg-1). Are you sure you want to merge? (Pass -f to force the merge).
[16:04] <ahasenack> rbasak: the importer needs to be kicked?
[16:05] <Neo4> mason: on #postfix channel guy said me read off documentation he said that he learned reading only it, sendmail documentation and postfix
[16:05] <Neo4> both are useful
[16:05] <Neo4> he said when he started to learn there weren't VMs
[16:06] <Neo4> ok, doesn't matter
[16:06] <Neo4> we should know terms and how approximately it works
[16:07] <Neo4> MUA (thunderburd) and otherrs, user sends message, then it message goes where?
[16:07] <Neo4> to MTA
[16:07] <Neo4> what is MTA for example?
[16:07] <Neo4> mail transfer agent
[16:08] <Neo4> it's postfix
[16:08] <Neo4> what is MDA?
[16:08] <Neo4> mail delivery agent?
[16:08] <Neo4> is thunderburd MDA? It also get messages
[16:08] <mason> procmail, for example
[16:08] <ahasenack> no
[16:09] <mason> or maildrop
[16:09] <blackflow> Neo4: it's all explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_agent_(infrastructure)
[16:09] <ahasenack> my "no" was for thunderbird :)
[16:09] <ahasenack> it's whatever gets the message into the final mailbox
[16:09] <mason> blackflow: You miss out on casual snark with +g :P
[16:09] <ahasenack> sometimes it's as simple as creating a file on disk
[16:10] <blackflow> mason: ah sorry, lemme whitelist you
[16:10] <ahasenack> other times it's more complex and can involve delivering to a database, for example
[16:10] <Neo4> ahasenack: see MDA is mail delivery agent, Thunderbird is getting mails, it means that it deliver mails to user that's why we call it Mail deliver agent, isn't it?
[16:10] <ahasenack> no
[16:11] <Neo4> ahasenack: in general thunderbird is MDA and MTA?
[16:11] <ahasenack> thunderbird is a mua
[16:11] <Neo4> oh MUA and MDA
[16:11] <Neo4> why not MDA? it is getting mails too
[16:12] <ahasenack> it is getting the emails from a server
[16:12] <Neo4> or MUA can get and send both?
[16:12] <ahasenack> it's pulling the emails down
[16:12] <ahasenack> the last agent that actually delivered the email to the server is the mda
[16:12] <Neo4> ahasenack: download
[16:12] <Neo4> ahasenack: well, MDA is placed on some server only?
[16:12] <ahasenack> normally,
[16:13] <ahasenack> but procmail can be used on the client as well to re-arrange things
[16:13] <ahasenack> and it's an mda
[16:14] <blackflow> dovecot/lmtp is MDA
[16:15] <Neo4> ahasenack: you mean postmal?
[16:15] <Neo4> postfix*
[16:16] <Neo4> ahasenack: you want say MDA is server app accept mails and stores them whenever on server on database
[16:16] <Neo4> supposed it
[16:17] <ahasenack> yes, so each mta doesn't have to know about all possible types of mailboxes that exist out there
[16:17] <Neo4> we have 3 MUA mail user agent, MTA mail transfer agent and MDA mail deliver agent. What is SMTP
[16:18] <Neo4> ahasenack: what is 'type of mailboxes'?
[16:18] <Neo4> it's MTA?
[16:18] <ahasenack> Neo4: dovecot's, cyrus', mbox, maildir, etc
[16:18] <sdeziel> postfix is a collection of software, it provides a MDA (for local(8) deliveries, aka save to disk), a MUA (sendmail(1)) and is a MTA (smtp/smtpd)
[16:19] <Neo4> ahasenack: I used gmail it also type of mailbox?
[16:19] <ahasenack> gmail's  is proprietary, we don't know how they store their emails
[16:19] <sdeziel> SMTP is the transport protocol used to exchange emails between MTAs
[16:20] <Neo4> what I think... SMTP simple mail transfer protocol it use for connect MUA to MTA yes
[16:21] <sdeziel> that's also true, the MUA speaks SMTP to handover the email to the MTA
[16:21] <Neo4> ahasenack: ok, dovecot, cyrus, mbox what is it? MDA?
[16:21] <sdeziel> the MTA's job is then to deliver it towards the final destination
[16:21] <Neo4> sdeziel: IMAP?
[16:22] <sdeziel> Neo4: IMAP is for a MUA to retrieve incoming emails from a mail server
[16:22] <sdeziel> dovecot/cyrus are both IMAP servers (among others)
[16:22] <Neo4> IMAP - Internet mail access protocol
[16:22] <Neo4> yes access,
[16:23] <Neo4> sdeziel: what is mail server, is it MDA? Or it both MDA and MTA?
[16:23] <Neo4> seems it should be MDA
[16:23] <sdeziel> Neo4: mail server is too broad
[16:23] <Neo4> sdeziel: to broad notion?
[16:24] <sdeziel> Neo4: a user wanting to send/receive emails will have to interact with two components
[16:24] <Neo4> I need more clearly picture
[16:24] <sdeziel> to send, it will have to configure its MUA (Thunderbird) to interact with a MTA (postfix) using SMTP
[16:24] <Neo4> understood
[16:25] <sdeziel> to receive, it will have to configure its MUA to interact with a IMAP (dovecot) server using well IMAP ;)
[16:25] <Neo4> and for get mails will interect with MDA using IMAP
[16:26] <Neo4> I don't understand it MTA is send message, MDA is receive massage, what is dovecot?
[16:26] <Neo4> I look in google
[16:26] <sdeziel> Neo4: I think you can safely ignore MDA for now
[16:26] <Neo4> I saw a few video about it and read it in postfix add-ons
[16:27] <sdeziel> MTAs are responsible for moving emails around and they use the SMTP protocol for that
[16:27] <Neo4> there exists roundcobe also
[16:28] <sdeziel> once a MTA determines it's the final destination for a given email, it will pass it on to the mail storage portion (this is where the MDA comes in)
[16:28] <Neo4> Dovecot is an open source IMAP and POP3 email server for Linux/UNIX-like systems, written with security primarily in mind.
[16:28] <sdeziel> once the email is stored on the server, it can be retrieved by the recipient using IMAP
[16:28] <Neo4> mail server
[16:29] <Neo4> sdeziel: ok
[16:30] <tomreyn> so much for the easy part, now to smtp auth ;)
[16:30] <Neo4> it means MDA is included in dovecot
[16:30] <Neo4> sdeziel: do you know https://roundcobe.net
[16:31] <Neo4> sdeziel: https://roundcube.net/ *
[16:31] <sdeziel> Neo4: a little
[16:31] <sdeziel> I use fat-clients myself, not web-based ones
[16:32] <Neo4> I saw it in one guy, it is a browser-based multilingual IMAP client with an application-like user
[16:32] <Neo4> what is IMAP client?
[16:32] <Neo4> thunderbird is IMAP client too?
[16:32] <Neo4> yes
[16:33] <Neo4> we call all apps IMAP clients that can get access using IMAP (internet mail access protocol)
[16:33] <Neo4> might be
[16:33] <Neo4> not might be, just exactly
[16:35] <Neo4> Need ask him how he installed it, but seems it was preinstalled on server or was delivered with control panel
[16:35] <Neo4> little more understandable what is who
[16:35] <Neo4> :)
[16:35] <tomreyn> Neo4: are you more than one person there?
[16:36] <tomreyn> it seems as if you're talking to yourself
[16:37] <Neo4> tomreyn: if I would one here yes, I'd talking to myself ) I'm toling to myself when I'm thinking.... Now in voice )
[16:37] <Neo4> doesn't matter, with who you are speaking )))
[16:37] <tomreyn> okay, i think i understand what you mean
[16:39] <tomreyn> anything which speaks to an imap server is an imap client.
[16:39] <tomreyn> correction: anything which speaks the IMAP protocol to an imap server is an imap client.
[16:39] <Neo4> tomreyn: understood
[16:39] <Neo4> now
[16:40] <Neo4> exists browsers IMAP clients
[16:40] <tomreyn> are you asking: "do browser based imap client exist?"
[16:40] <tomreyn> *clientS
[16:41] <Neo4> we can call probably roundcube also MUA mail user agent and google gmail is also MUA
[16:42] <tomreyn> roundcube is an imap client. i'm not sure about the exact definition of a mail user agent, but my guess is you could also call it that.
[16:42] <Neo4> tomreyn: no it's not questions just inform sentences
[16:42] <Neo4> tomreyn: yes, MUA we can all google as well
[16:43] <tomreyn> hmm surely not all of google. maybe some of gmail, but i guess neither.
[16:43] <Neo4> because it has all properties belonging MUA
[16:44] <Neo4> ok, in general all apps who can send mails and accept are MUAs
[16:45] <tomreyn> hmm, okay, actually you can be right. it's difficult to tell how gmail works technically since it's not documented. but i agree that it has the properties of what is described as a MUA on wikipedia (i did not check the RFC's definition)
[16:45] <Neo4> there in google just web interface, server might be paced separated somewhere. or well will use for a while only thunderburd like traditional MUA
[16:45] <Neo4> tomreyn: ok :)
[16:46] <Neo4> we forgot about POP
[16:46] <tomreyn> if you're looking for good examples, i'd go with thunderbird and roundcube, since you can know how they work.
[16:46] <Neo4> all common abriviation we are knew
[16:47] <Neo4> tomreyn: I use thunderbird for chat now and for mail http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1516294047.png
[16:48] <tomreyn> ok?
[16:48] <Neo4> tomreyn: good
[16:48] <tomreyn> that's fine with me. :)
[16:48] <Neo4> tomreyn: because it was in windows and now use here too
[16:49] <Neo4> well, go on reading )
[16:50] <tomreyn> good luck!
[17:01] <ndanl> hi guys
[17:01] <ndanl> 18:52:56 ndanl
[17:01] <ndanl> I have a problem ater updating my ubuntu openstack controller
[17:01] <ndanl> 18:53:39 ndanl
[17:01] <ndanl> whenever I try to start any of the openstack services I get the errors like this one http://paste.openstack.org/show/646929/
[17:01] <ndanl> 18:54:29 ndanl
[17:01] <ndanl> all errors cointain something about monotonic.py
[17:01] <ndanl> 18:54:47 ndanl
[17:01] <ndanl> could this be broken in 16.04 xenial
[17:01] <ndanl> 18:54:48 ndanl
[17:01] <ndanl> ?
[17:01] <teward> ...
[17:02] <ndanl> I have a problem ater updating my ubuntu openstack controller
[17:02] <ndanl> whenever I try to start any of the openstack services I get the errors like this one http://paste.openstack.org/show/646929/
[17:02] <teward> ndanl: copy/paste of IRC lines break things with linebreaks
[17:02] <ndanl> all errors cointain something about monotonic.py
[17:02] <teward> don't repeat your thing multiple times either
[17:02] <teward> (just an FYI for both the paste you did AND asking your question a second time)
[17:02] <ndanl> sorry just pasted
[17:02] <ndanl> so somthing went wrong after update
[17:04] <ndanl> this is the list of packages recently updated http://paste.openstack.org/show/646936/
[17:04] <ndanl> any idea what may be wrong ?
[19:03] <Epx998> Can I set a release's minor release in a preseed?
[19:18] <nacc> Epx998: what do you mean?
[19:20] <Epx998> Choose to install 16.04.2 instead of 16.04.3
[19:20] <nacc> Epx998: 16.04.2 is unsupported now
[19:20] <nacc> Epx998: is there a reason you would choose that?
[19:20] <nacc> Epx998: and no, that's a HWE stack, it's not a 'release' you'd preseed anyways
[19:21] <Epx998> Some new servers for our dev team, the os specs are very specific this round.
[19:21] <nacc> Epx998: ... your dev team wants to run unsupported kernel and graphics stacks?
[19:21] <nacc> (that aren't getting security updates, e.g)
[19:21] <Epx998> they dont care heh
[19:22] <patdk-lap> you will be vaunerable to all this meltdown/spectre stuff
[19:22] <nacc> at a minimum
[19:22] <nacc> also i'm not sure you can install that
[19:22] <nacc> hwe is rolling now
[19:22] <Epx998> our A/V teams are ramping up, a lot of hardware and os specs being given to them
[19:22] <nacc> you *might* be able to pin the hwe kernel package to an old version, if it's available in your mirror
[19:22] <Epx998> im trying that right now on a vm
[19:23] <nacc> but any bugs you hit are your own to resolve
[19:23] <Epx998> yeah they dont worry about that stuff
[19:23] <nacc> so your dev team has specific kernel and X requireemtns?
[19:24] <nacc> because everything else is the same between 16.04.2 and 16.04.3 once you `sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade`
[19:24] <Epx998> yeah depending on the project
[19:25] <Epx998> the xenial servers we built, they just want xenial, no kernel reqs yet
[19:25] <nacc> Epx998: so then ...
[19:25] <nacc> Epx998: don't insntall the hwe stack
[19:25] <nacc> Epx998: i feel like you're makinng a lot of work for yourself
[19:25] <nacc> Epx998: just switch back to the stock non-hwe kernel and X and stay supported
[19:26] <nacc> Epx998: if they don't have requiremets for the hwe stack, why deall with it?
[19:28] <Epx998> hmm
[19:30] <sdeziel> nacc: you worked on SRU'ing php7.0 7.0.25 (thanks for that) but now 7.0.27 is out and addresses 3 CVEs. Would it make sense to skip .25 and jump all the way to .27?
[19:31] <sdeziel> I'm asking since the SRU of .25 is stalled ATM
[19:31] <nacc> sdeziel: i'll talk with mdeslaur about it
[19:32] <nacc> sdeziel: probably
[19:32] <nacc> although 27 will also get stalled currently, i expect
[19:32] <nacc> but yeah, might be worth doing
[19:32] <mdeslaur> why is it stalled?
[19:32] <sdeziel> nacc: I could update the existing LP or open a new one with CVE links if that helps
[19:32] <nacc> mdeslaur: autopkgtest regressions, which look all to be infra related
[19:32] <nacc> and possibly a tzdata related bug
[19:33]  * nacc feels like tzdata updates aren't being properly tested
[19:33] <nacc> (there have beenn two issues in PHP related to it so far)
[19:34] <nacc> sdeziel: if you could file a bug, that would be helpful
[19:34] <sdeziel> nacc: will do, thanks
[19:34] <nacc> sdeziel: thank you!
[19:34] <nacc> sdeziel: sorry, my focus right now is to see if 7.2 is making debian soon and if we should migrate to it for 18.04
[19:34] <mdeslaur> nacc: ok, I'm busy at the moment, but I'll look into what the current php security status is
[19:34] <nacc> mdeslaur: thanks, i can get it set up in our repo for you to upload in the meanwhile
[19:35] <sdeziel> nacc: no worries
[19:35] <mdeslaur> nacc: please
[19:37] <sdeziel> nacc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php7.0/+bug/1744148
[19:42] <nacc> sdeziel: thanks
[22:31] <mwynne> Hi guys. I'm getting kernel panics in VMs running openstack on a daily basis. Is this the right place post/ask about these issues?
[22:31] <mwynne> Panic log: http://paste.openstack.org/show/646958/
[22:33] <mwynne> The kernel website says that they won't support distro kernel releases, so I'm assuming someone here can help :)
[22:33] <nacc> mwynne: yeah, give it a bit
[22:40] <patdk-lap> not really the right place
[22:40] <patdk-lap> really need to file a bug report on launchpad
[22:53] <nacc> mwynne: `ubuntu-bug linux` in this case
[22:54] <mwynne> nacc: I've created it manually on launchpad already. Should I use ubuntu-bug instead?
[22:55] <nacc> mwynne: nah, that's fine
[23:09] <sarnold> apport-collect can append all the same data after the fact
[23:11] <nacc> sarnold: yeah that's what i figured