[02:53] <cskama> i tried the new slack snap but it doesn't seem to come with a *.desktop file (doesn't show up in launcher or dock). is this normal? 
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> anyone knows whats the xserver-xorg-video-intel update about this morning?
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> i have an ati graphics and amd cpu
[07:54] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/2:2.99.917+git20171229-1
[07:54] <acheronuk> "New upstream snapshot"
[12:21] <gunix> hey guys
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> hey gunix 
[12:21] <gunix> what dekstop environment do you recommand for bioniv beaver?
[12:21] <gunix> *bionic beaver ?
[12:22] <lotuspsychje> gunix: default ubuntu-desktop is gnome
[12:22] <gunix> that was not the question
[12:22] <lotuspsychje> !flavors | gunix 
[12:22] <gunix> still not an answer to the question
[12:22] <gunix> lol
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> gunix: we dont reccomend desktop enviroments, because its the users choice
[12:23]  * TJ- recommends the console
[12:23] <gunix> ok, my choise is to know your personal prefferance
[12:23] <gunix> ok, don't tell me what you recommend
[12:23] <gunix> tell me what you use
[12:23] <gunix> :)
[12:24] <flocculant> windows
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:24] <flocculant> morning lotuspsychje :)
[12:24] <TJ-> doors
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> hey flocculant 
[12:24] <TJ-> flocculant: I couldn't reproduce your ISO boot failures 
[12:24] <flocculant> TJ-: I looked when more awake at your link to console 
[12:25] <flocculant> of course - failing here on hardware 
[12:25] <gunix> ok, so are you going to recommend me a desktop environment and tell me what you guys like to use, or are you going to refuse to answer to my question?
[12:25] <TJ-> flocculant: I added my findings to the bug report
[12:25] <flocculant> TJ-: thanks :)
[12:25] <lotuspsychje> gunix: im on gnome, as bionic default
[12:25] <flocculant> and I use Xubuntu 
[12:25] <flocculant> TJ-: useful nonetheless
[12:26] <TJ-> flocculant: if it fails on hardware but no in VM best to log the dmesg from a working boot at least so we have some idea of what is being dealt with
[12:27] <flocculant> TJ-: aah yes  sorry - we'd had the 'oh it works on vm's' conversation with infinity in -release
[12:27] <gunix> lotuspsychje: i've used gnome the last year and i just tried manjaro kde and it feels very nice, however i am not sure if it's stable enough on the beaver ... and i would also like to try budgie since i never used it
[12:27] <lotuspsychje> gunix: im having real stable on gnome bionic already
[12:27] <TJ-> flocculant: I'll put it on USB and try it
[12:28] <flocculant> TJ-: awesome - ftr - you could grab any 32 bit flavour to try - not just xubuntu 
[12:28] <gunix> lotuspsychje: i am kind of bored of gnome :(
[12:28] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: but would you know why it installs on my system, package says 'optional'
[12:28] <TJ-> flocculant: I use xubuntu mainly
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> flocculant: that 32bit issue not solved yet?
[12:30] <flocculant> nah - but only found it yesterday and got -release interested last night
[12:30] <flocculant> TJ-: \o/
[12:30] <lotuspsychje> gunix: try another flavor?
[12:32] <flocculant> valorie tsimonq2 - tried kubuntu/lubuntu at your ends?
[12:37] <lotuspsychje> flocculant: can you share whats happening exactly? might search for new bugs perhaps
[12:40] <flocculant> lotuspsychje: grab a flavour's 32 bit iso - put it on a usb (or add it as a grub option) boot it - machine reboots
[12:40] <flocculant> doesn't happen in vm's that I can see
[12:40] <TJ-> flocculant: I can't reproduce on bare hardware
[12:41] <flocculant> TJ-: good
[12:41] <flocculant> ish
[12:41] <TJ-> flocculant: what *exactly* are the symptoms you see?
[12:41] <flocculant> perhaps it's just some hardware
[12:42] <flocculant> TJ-: start from usb - or grub - it gets to the kbd/human page - starts to boot - then machine restarts 
[12:42] <TJ-> flocculant: There's a problem with the initial desktop painting but the system boots fine. Desktop takes a while to init
[12:42] <TJ-> flocculant: nope, nothing like that
[12:42] <flocculant> yea - had that for a while
[12:42] <flocculant> TJ-: k
[12:42] <flocculant> I've got the -proposed kernel installed for bionic
[12:43] <TJ-> flocculant: so you need to provide the exact hardware of your failing system, as I said, attach it's dmesg log to the bug
[12:43] <flocculant> well I can add dmesg from this install of course
[12:44] <lotuspsychje> flocculant: cant find anything related yet https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+bugs?orderby=-importance&start=0
[12:44] <TJ-> flocculant: you should also be able to capture the failing boot kernel log using netconsole 
[12:45] <flocculant> TJ-: don't understand how to to do that from usb or grub boot tbh
[12:45] <TJ-> I notice the poiner isn't accelerated - moves about 1/8th of the screen with a full wipe across the touchpad
[12:50] <TJ-> flocculant: Requires wired Ethernet, but: on another system something like "nc -u -l -p 6666 -s 10.254.1.51 | tee /tmp/bionic-boot-i386.log" (IP address being that of the listening PC) and then on the target interrupt the ISO boot menu and add "netconsole=@10.254.1.99/,@10.254.1.51/" (first IP address is assigned to the booting PC, second address is where to send the console messages (the listening PC)
[12:52] <flocculant> TJ-: aah right - so only got 1 machine 
[12:54] <TJ-> flocculant: is the system using the syslinux or GRUB bootloader?
[12:56] <flocculant> TJ-: I can reliably fail the boot from the iso I've got in the grub bootloader
[12:56] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: what flavour are you on?
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: gnome
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: ubuntu-desktop vanilla
[12:57] <TJ-> flocculant: right, but which bootloader is the ISO using!?
[12:58] <flocculant> grub
[12:59] <TJ-> flocculant: You really need to test it from a USB or DVD/CD boot rather than using a GRUB chainload, to verify the issue is due to the ISO and not due to your intermediate GRUB config
[12:59] <TJ-> flocculant: how is it using GRUB? is the system booting with EFI?
[12:59] <flocculant> TJ-: I've done both - in fact I did getting on for 10 from usb
[12:59] <flocculant> not using efi
[13:00] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: ok. gdm3 recommends xserver-xorg; xserver-xorg recommends xserver-xorg-video-all; xserver-xorg-video-all recommends xserver-xorg-video-intel
[13:00] <flocculant> TJ-: F12 to boot menu, choose usb - get a grub menu
[13:00] <acheronuk> or some similar chain apt followed
[13:01] <TJ-> flocculant: if the ISO shows the GRUB menu it's booting using EFI mode
[13:01] <flocculant> TJ-: hang on :)
[13:03] <flocculant> ok yea - you're right sorry
[13:03] <TJ-> flocculant: The ISOs are hybrid. If starting on a BIOS system they'll use isolinux (syslinux) for a USB mass-storage device, and for an ISO-9660/El Torito native CD boot. If the system boots using EFI mode it uses GRUB
[13:04] <TJ-> flocculant: so, all this is important to specify in the bug report to enable others to understand the precise scenario and attempt to reproduce it
[13:04] <flocculant> yea - I think at some point I got the grub menu picking the efi option from the machine boot menu
[13:05] <TJ-> flocculant: and when in front of the the various ISO boot methods you've got a system-installed (presumably EFI) GRUB bootloader effectively chain-loading an ISO, things become hidiously complicated
[13:05] <flocculant> tbh - not that bothered about 32bit not working - I never use it - I just tested the option and it fails
[13:06] <flocculant> machine is  64 bit - and secure boot etc is all turned off as far as I remember
[13:06] <TJ-> flocculant: Well, if the system is booting using 64-bit EFI into GRUB x86_64 EFI, I'd expect a 32-bit image boot to fail
[13:07] <flocculant> TJ-: you thinkg it's failing because the machine is 64 bit?
[13:07] <flocculant> and I don't use efi 
[13:08] <TJ-> flocculant: This is why you need to precisely specify the scenario when reporting issues like this. You're now revealing extremely important information that is significant
[13:09] <flocculant> mmm
[13:12] <TJ-> I still don't fully understand it, but it sounds like this: EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc > loopback ISO 32-bit [ SKIP ISO's BOOTLOADER ENTIRELY ] > load vmlinuz/initrd directly 
[13:16] <flocculant> TJ-: but if secure boot etc is all off - isn't it just a 64bit machine booting a 32 bit iso - like I've done hundreds of times in the past
[13:17] <flocculant> nothing has changed on this machine for some years 
[13:17] <flocculant> so I'm even more confused than I was now :D
[13:18] <TJ-> flocculant: disabling Secure-Boot doesn't change the boot mode of the PC
[13:19] <TJ-> flocculant: is it the PC you're on right now?
[13:19] <flocculant> yea
[13:20] <TJ-> flocculant: if so, does "ls /sys/firmware/efi/efivars" list files?
[13:20] <flocculant> ls: cannot access '/sys/firmware/efi/efivars': No such file or directory
[13:21] <TJ-> flocculant: OK, and if you do "ls /boot/grub/" do you see "i386-pc" and/or  "x86_64-efi"  directories?
[13:22] <flocculant> TJ-: nope
[13:22] <flocculant> sorry
[13:22] <flocculant> i386 in /boot/grub
[13:23] <TJ-> flocculant: OK so it's booting in BIOS mode, so you've got EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc 
[13:24] <TJ-> flocculant: can you attach the system's current dmesg log to the bug and I'll see if I can spot anything to give a clue
[13:26] <flocculant> TJ-: if there was one I would - how about a journalctl file
[13:26] <TJ-> flocculant: "dmesg > /tmp/dmesg.log" then attach /tmp/dmesg.log
[13:27] <flocculant> TJ-: there is no dmesg in /var/log
[13:27] <TJ-> flocculant: use the command I just gave you. "dmesg" is a command not a file, it reads the kernel's ring buffer
[13:29] <flocculant> TJ-: attached it - expected to see dmesg in /var/log tbh - used to live there 
[13:33] <TJ-> flocculant: it's directed to /var/log/kern.log now
[13:33] <flocculant> aah right
[13:33] <TJ-> but other 'stuff' gets put in that file by syslog too
[13:33] <flocculant> :)
[13:33] <TJ-> so 'dmesg' on it's own gets a 'clean' kernel message log
[13:34] <flocculant> thanks for that info :)
[13:36] <albert23> flocculant: do you press any keys when you boot?
[13:36] <albert23> if i don press any key i fall back to my systems grub menu
[13:36] <albert23> if i go via the language slector, i can boot 32 bit xubuntu usb stick just fine
[13:37] <TJ-> the thing with 'dmesg' is it reads the kernel's ring-buffer, so after a while the earliest messages get over-written with later messages, so it's important to capture 'dmesg' early before that can happen.
[13:37] <flocculant> albert23: doesn't matter if I do or don't - fails anyway
[13:37] <flocculant> TJ-: you saying you want me to reboot and grab a clean one?
[13:38] <TJ-> flocculant: no, that was just FYI so you know
[13:38] <flocculant> TJ-: ok :)
[13:38] <TJ-> flocculant: generally after several hours/days the messages being wrapping around the buffer - depends on whether the system started with "quiet" or "debug" verbosity 
[13:39] <TJ-> s/being/begin.
[13:39] <flocculant> I see - rare this machine doesn't get 2 or 3 boots a day :p
[13:46] <TJ-> flocculant: like albert said, if you do a bare metal boot from USB of the i386 ISO, in CSM/Legacy mode, and hit a key when you see the keyboard symbol at bottom of display, select language, then at the boot menu highlight "Try.." then press F6 to get the 'expert boot options' sub-menu, press Esc to dismiss it, then move the cursor on the kernel command-line to before the final "--" and delete "quiet splash
[13:46] <TJ-> " and add " debug " then press Enter... that should let you see the kernel messages and possibly see where it gets to and even photograph it before it resets if you're lucky - depends on whether it hangs then reboots or just reboots without warning
[13:47] <TJ-> In these situations I set-up a camcorder videoing it and review it afterwards :)
[13:48] <flocculant> TJ-: trying that (not sure why I didn't yesterday at least once in the too many times ...) 
[13:49] <flocculant> TJ-: not a thing shown 
[13:50] <flocculant> well - cursor for 'that long'
[13:50] <flocculant> iirc from last cycle text doesn't work anymore woth systemd - can't remember what you need instead
[13:51] <TJ-> works fine here
[13:51] <TJ-> that's how i did the tests
[13:51] <flocculant> mmm - I'll try again then - remove quiet splash add text?
[13:51] <TJ-> no, add "debug"
[13:52] <flocculant> oh ok, let me do that
[13:55] <flocculant> TJ-: early console in setup code - then it reboots
[13:57] <TJ-> was that a message? I don't recognise it
[13:57] <flocculant> that was all there was
[13:58] <flocculant> TJ-: thanks for your help - but I'm running out of time now :)
[14:01] <TJ-> OK, one last option to add in there with "debug" - add also "earlyprintk=vga"
[14:01] <flocculant> ok - will do that :)
[14:01] <TJ-> flocculant: that should get you VERY early kernel setup messages
[14:01] <flocculant> right 
[14:01] <flocculant> brb
[14:03] <TJ-> flocculant: I'm beginning to think this a bug in the system firmware; it's behaving as if the CPU is in 64-bit protected mode trying to execute (kernel) code that expects the CPU to be in 32-bit real mode
[14:05] <flocculant> managed to capture that on the phone 
[14:06] <TJ-> nice one :D
[14:06] <flocculant> not too shaky either :D
[14:12] <TJ-> can you attach it to the bug report?
[14:13] <flocculant> yea - also trying to read it in vlc - will do it in a short while - little one calling for Dad taxi ... 
[14:13] <TJ-> OK :)
[14:15] <flocculant> TJ-: attached - back later
[14:39] <flocculant> well watched it slowly - made little sense to me :p
[14:53] <TJ-> flocculant: It was enough for me to see roughly where it's resetting. I've been emulating the same CPU as in your PC using QEMU/KVM but can't reproduce it. We really need to capture the log via a serial console
[14:57] <TJ-> I suspect it's due to a regression caused by the recent PTI patches, which aren't supposed to affect x86 (only x86_64) but some of the memory-management code is shared 
[14:57] <flocculant> TJ-: mmm - not sure how we can accomplish that - also if others can't reproduce then perhaps it's not something to worry about too much, 32 bit for me is something that Xubuntu Team decided to carry on with - not sure how many of that team even have 32 bit hardware to test on, I know I don't
[14:58] <flocculant> TJ-: ack - that was sort of the sentiment from infinity in #u-release last night
[14:58] <TJ-> I think I've an EFI system lying around somewhere I could test on... not sure which one though :)
[14:59] <flocculant> TJ-: don't worry too much - unless of course you want to - I'm kind of waiting for a reply from a lubuntu person in another channel to get involved too :p
[15:01] <TJ-> flocculant: well we don't want unbootable ISOs being distributed - best to figure it out early
[15:01] <flocculant> well no of course not - hence the pinging in -release :)
[15:01] <TJ-> My method is to collect accurate data to act on rather than guess :)
[15:01] <flocculant> :)
[15:01] <TJ-> which is why I'm after the best logs we can get
[15:02] <flocculant> off for a bit now - time with little one, will be back this evening
[15:02] <flocculant> thanks enormously for your help so far :)
[16:49] <gunix> how do i enter grub?
[16:49] <gunix> i get the purple screen from ubuntu and than error message
[16:50] <gunix> i need to boot CLI mode to disable nvidia driver
[16:52] <TJ-> Press  Esc key when firmware hands over to GRUB
[16:53] <gunix> i wanted to install kubuntu 17.10 but somehow i managed to install ubuntu 18.04
[16:53] <gunix> ...
[17:34] <flocculant> TJ-: following up a bit, someone from xubuntu team booted 32 bit iso (though our not quite official core one) on 32 bit machine
[17:35] <flocculant> if this issue is it not booting on a 64 bit machine then I'm a bit *shrug* ;)
[17:36] <TJ-> well it booted here on x86_64 CPU as well
[17:37] <flocculant> so on some 64bit - even more shruggy then :p
[17:37] <flocculant> thanks for your help - I think I'll just wait to see what -release say - I'll let you know if I hear anything
[18:06] <tsimonq2> flocculant: Hey, sorry, been out of it the last few days... what's up with these ISOs? :)
[18:07] <flocculant> tsimonq2: currently not sure tbh - some (at least 1) 64 bit machines not booting 32 bit iso(s)
[18:07] <tsimonq2> flocculant: `I
[18:07] <tsimonq2> grr
[18:08] <tsimonq2> I'll create a task on Phab for wxl to get to testing the stuff.
[18:08] <flocculant> currently also waiting to see what Adam finds
[18:08] <tsimonq2> Alright.
[18:08] <flocculant> other than that I'm now stepping back on this 
[18:08]  * tsimonq2 shamelessly plugs phab.lubuntu.me :P
[18:08] <flocculant> mmm
[18:08] <flocculant> saw that
[18:09] <flocculant> we used trello a few cycles back - fell back to m/l and talking to each other as our default
[18:09] <flocculant> have a good day - wandering 
[18:10] <tsimonq2> ok have fun :)
[18:10] <flocculant> you too :)
[21:38] <gunix> how come i downloaded 17.10 and got a great new install of bionic beaver? :D
[21:38] <gunix> i mean it works nice but i am confused
[21:41] <tomreyn> gunix: what's the name of the file you downloaded?
[21:42] <tomreyn> and if you can tell, where did you download it from
[21:45] <gunix> tomreyn: one sec
[21:45] <gunix> tomreyn: https://kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/
[21:45] <gunix> 64 bit one
[21:46] <gunix> and i got bionic beaver gnome
[21:46] <gunix> :))
[21:46] <tomreyn> gunix: so this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/17.10.1/release/kubuntu-17.10.1-desktop-amd64.iso
[21:47] <gunix> yes
[21:47] <gunix> at first i thought i made a mistake
[21:48] <gunix> but than during the installer i noticed that the backgroud image was an aardvark, not a beaver
[21:48] <gunix> well anyway i am happy with the system
[21:48] <tomreyn> maybe emntion it in the kubuntu channel
[21:48] <gunix> as long as i don't install nvidia, nothing crashes
[21:49] <TJ-> nothing wrong with that ISO I just pulled it on
[21:49] <TJ-> cat /mnt/.disk/info    
[21:49] <TJ-> Kubuntu 17.10 "Artful Aardvark" - Release amd64 (20180105.2)
[21:51] <TJ-> $ grep gnome /mnt/casper/filesystem.manifest
[21:51] <TJ-> libsoup-gnome2.4-1:amd64        2.60.1-1
[21:51] <TJ-> it's all pure Kubuntu
[21:52] <gunix> maybe it was a long day for me
[21:52] <gunix> anyway i am happy with the system
[21:52] <gunix> except the theme
[21:52] <tsimonq2> uh
[21:52] <tsimonq2> what?
[21:52] <gunix> but both lxd and kvm are working so that is great
[21:52]  * tsimonq2 grabs that ISO
[21:53] <TJ-> tsimonq2: it's fine; user mistake
[21:53] <gunix> hmm i guess you guys are right
[21:53] <gunix> i am installing distros since last night
[21:53] <gunix> i might have mixed up a USB
[21:54] <tsimonq2> TJ-: oh
[21:54] <tsimonq2> ok
[21:54] <tsimonq2> TJ-: But still... gonna check it to be extra safe :P
[21:55] <TJ-> tsimonq2: I just did, see my results above
[21:55] <tsimonq2> TJ-: oh, k
[21:55] <tsimonq2> thanks
[21:55] <gunix> it all started when a manager said "so we will do openstack with redhat support. you can manage that, right?" ... so i said "ok better delete my debian and roll a fedora so i get used to redhat better. so i get fedora 27 and everything crashes. and i am like "i am not going back to debian, i'll get something new" ... so i try manjaro and lxd doesn't work. and well from there i installed multiple distros and
[21:55] <gunix> the only distro that works and is new is bionic beaver. 
[21:55] <gunix> though i really don't like this gnome theme :(
[21:57] <tsimonq2> gunix: Have you tried CentOS?
[21:57] <gunix> centos is far too old for day to day use
[21:58] <tsimonq2> hm ok
[21:58] <gunix> i think the best distro atm is debian 9, probably till 18.04 will be live (and themes will work, nvidia drivers won't crash and stuff like that)
[21:58] <gunix> at least for me
[22:00] <gunix> but i wanted to switch from kvm to lxd anyway
[22:32] <gunix> where do i report bugs, since i am on devel version now?
[22:32] <gunix> does it help anybody if i do?
[22:34] <TJ-> !bug
[22:55] <gunix> for example
[22:55] <gunix> gnome integration plugin is not working
[22:55] <gunix> with chromium
[22:55] <gunix> since chromium is now not part of apt
[22:55] <gunix> but in snap
[22:55] <gunix> :D
[23:24] <gunix> ok, i added some themes
[23:24] <gunix> it looks great now