cskamai tried the new slack snap but it doesn't seem to come with a *.desktop file (doesn't show up in launcher or dock). is this normal? 02:53
=== croppa_ is now known as croppa
lotuspsychjeanyone knows whats the xserver-xorg-video-intel update about this morning?06:29
lotuspsychjei have an ati graphics and amd cpu06:30
acheronuklotuspsychje: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/2:2.99.917+git20171229-107:54
acheronuk"New upstream snapshot"07:54
gunixhey guys12:21
lotuspsychjehey gunix 12:21
gunixwhat dekstop environment do you recommand for bioniv beaver?12:21
gunix*bionic beaver ?12:21
lotuspsychjegunix: default ubuntu-desktop is gnome12:22
gunixthat was not the question12:22
lotuspsychje!flavors | gunix 12:22
ubottugunix: Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours12:22
gunixstill not an answer to the question12:22
lotuspsychjegunix: we dont reccomend desktop enviroments, because its the users choice12:23
* TJ- recommends the console12:23
gunixok, my choise is to know your personal prefferance12:23
gunixok, don't tell me what you recommend12:23
gunixtell me what you use12:23
flocculantmorning lotuspsychje :)12:24
lotuspsychjehey flocculant 12:24
TJ-flocculant: I couldn't reproduce your ISO boot failures 12:24
flocculantTJ-: I looked when more awake at your link to console 12:24
flocculantof course - failing here on hardware 12:25
gunixok, so are you going to recommend me a desktop environment and tell me what you guys like to use, or are you going to refuse to answer to my question?12:25
TJ-flocculant: I added my findings to the bug report12:25
flocculantTJ-: thanks :)12:25
lotuspsychjegunix: im on gnome, as bionic default12:25
flocculantand I use Xubuntu 12:25
flocculantTJ-: useful nonetheless12:25
TJ-flocculant: if it fails on hardware but no in VM best to log the dmesg from a working boot at least so we have some idea of what is being dealt with12:26
flocculantTJ-: aah yes  sorry - we'd had the 'oh it works on vm's' conversation with infinity in -release12:27
gunixlotuspsychje: i've used gnome the last year and i just tried manjaro kde and it feels very nice, however i am not sure if it's stable enough on the beaver ... and i would also like to try budgie since i never used it12:27
lotuspsychjegunix: im having real stable on gnome bionic already12:27
TJ-flocculant: I'll put it on USB and try it12:27
flocculantTJ-: awesome - ftr - you could grab any 32 bit flavour to try - not just xubuntu 12:28
gunixlotuspsychje: i am kind of bored of gnome :(12:28
lotuspsychjeacheronuk: but would you know why it installs on my system, package says 'optional'12:28
TJ-flocculant: I use xubuntu mainly12:28
lotuspsychjeflocculant: that 32bit issue not solved yet?12:29
flocculantnah - but only found it yesterday and got -release interested last night12:30
flocculantTJ-: \o/12:30
lotuspsychjegunix: try another flavor?12:30
flocculantvalorie tsimonq2 - tried kubuntu/lubuntu at your ends?12:32
lotuspsychjeflocculant: can you share whats happening exactly? might search for new bugs perhaps12:37
flocculantlotuspsychje: grab a flavour's 32 bit iso - put it on a usb (or add it as a grub option) boot it - machine reboots12:40
flocculantdoesn't happen in vm's that I can see12:40
TJ-flocculant: I can't reproduce on bare hardware12:40
flocculantTJ-: good12:41
TJ-flocculant: what *exactly* are the symptoms you see?12:41
flocculantperhaps it's just some hardware12:41
flocculantTJ-: start from usb - or grub - it gets to the kbd/human page - starts to boot - then machine restarts 12:42
TJ-flocculant: There's a problem with the initial desktop painting but the system boots fine. Desktop takes a while to init12:42
TJ-flocculant: nope, nothing like that12:42
flocculantyea - had that for a while12:42
flocculantTJ-: k12:42
flocculantI've got the -proposed kernel installed for bionic12:42
TJ-flocculant: so you need to provide the exact hardware of your failing system, as I said, attach it's dmesg log to the bug12:43
flocculantwell I can add dmesg from this install of course12:43
lotuspsychjeflocculant: cant find anything related yet https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+bugs?orderby=-importance&start=012:44
TJ-flocculant: you should also be able to capture the failing boot kernel log using netconsole 12:44
flocculantTJ-: don't understand how to to do that from usb or grub boot tbh12:45
TJ-I notice the poiner isn't accelerated - moves about 1/8th of the screen with a full wipe across the touchpad12:45
TJ-flocculant: Requires wired Ethernet, but: on another system something like "nc -u -l -p 6666 -s | tee /tmp/bionic-boot-i386.log" (IP address being that of the listening PC) and then on the target interrupt the ISO boot menu and add "netconsole=@,@" (first IP address is assigned to the booting PC, second address is where to send the console messages (the listening PC)12:50
flocculantTJ-: aah right - so only got 1 machine 12:52
TJ-flocculant: is the system using the syslinux or GRUB bootloader?12:54
flocculantTJ-: I can reliably fail the boot from the iso I've got in the grub bootloader12:56
acheronuklotuspsychje: what flavour are you on?12:56
lotuspsychjeacheronuk: gnome12:57
lotuspsychjeacheronuk: ubuntu-desktop vanilla12:57
TJ-flocculant: right, but which bootloader is the ISO using!?12:57
TJ-flocculant: You really need to test it from a USB or DVD/CD boot rather than using a GRUB chainload, to verify the issue is due to the ISO and not due to your intermediate GRUB config12:59
TJ-flocculant: how is it using GRUB? is the system booting with EFI?12:59
flocculantTJ-: I've done both - in fact I did getting on for 10 from usb12:59
flocculantnot using efi12:59
acheronuklotuspsychje: ok. gdm3 recommends xserver-xorg; xserver-xorg recommends xserver-xorg-video-all; xserver-xorg-video-all recommends xserver-xorg-video-intel13:00
flocculantTJ-: F12 to boot menu, choose usb - get a grub menu13:00
acheronukor some similar chain apt followed13:00
TJ-flocculant: if the ISO shows the GRUB menu it's booting using EFI mode13:01
flocculantTJ-: hang on :)13:01
flocculantok yea - you're right sorry13:03
TJ-flocculant: The ISOs are hybrid. If starting on a BIOS system they'll use isolinux (syslinux) for a USB mass-storage device, and for an ISO-9660/El Torito native CD boot. If the system boots using EFI mode it uses GRUB13:03
TJ-flocculant: so, all this is important to specify in the bug report to enable others to understand the precise scenario and attempt to reproduce it13:04
flocculantyea - I think at some point I got the grub menu picking the efi option from the machine boot menu13:04
TJ-flocculant: and when in front of the the various ISO boot methods you've got a system-installed (presumably EFI) GRUB bootloader effectively chain-loading an ISO, things become hidiously complicated13:05
flocculanttbh - not that bothered about 32bit not working - I never use it - I just tested the option and it fails13:05
flocculantmachine is  64 bit - and secure boot etc is all turned off as far as I remember13:06
TJ-flocculant: Well, if the system is booting using 64-bit EFI into GRUB x86_64 EFI, I'd expect a 32-bit image boot to fail13:06
flocculantTJ-: you thinkg it's failing because the machine is 64 bit?13:07
flocculantand I don't use efi 13:07
TJ-flocculant: This is why you need to precisely specify the scenario when reporting issues like this. You're now revealing extremely important information that is significant13:08
TJ-I still don't fully understand it, but it sounds like this: EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc > loopback ISO 32-bit [ SKIP ISO's BOOTLOADER ENTIRELY ] > load vmlinuz/initrd directly 13:12
flocculantTJ-: but if secure boot etc is all off - isn't it just a 64bit machine booting a 32 bit iso - like I've done hundreds of times in the past13:16
flocculantnothing has changed on this machine for some years 13:17
flocculantso I'm even more confused than I was now :D13:17
TJ-flocculant: disabling Secure-Boot doesn't change the boot mode of the PC13:18
TJ-flocculant: is it the PC you're on right now?13:19
TJ-flocculant: if so, does "ls /sys/firmware/efi/efivars" list files?13:20
flocculantls: cannot access '/sys/firmware/efi/efivars': No such file or directory13:20
TJ-flocculant: OK, and if you do "ls /boot/grub/" do you see "i386-pc" and/or  "x86_64-efi"  directories?13:21
flocculantTJ-: nope13:22
flocculanti386 in /boot/grub13:22
TJ-flocculant: OK so it's booting in BIOS mode, so you've got EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc 13:23
TJ-flocculant: can you attach the system's current dmesg log to the bug and I'll see if I can spot anything to give a clue13:24
flocculantTJ-: if there was one I would - how about a journalctl file13:26
TJ-flocculant: "dmesg > /tmp/dmesg.log" then attach /tmp/dmesg.log13:26
flocculantTJ-: there is no dmesg in /var/log13:27
TJ-flocculant: use the command I just gave you. "dmesg" is a command not a file, it reads the kernel's ring buffer13:27
flocculantTJ-: attached it - expected to see dmesg in /var/log tbh - used to live there 13:29
TJ-flocculant: it's directed to /var/log/kern.log now13:33
flocculantaah right13:33
TJ-but other 'stuff' gets put in that file by syslog too13:33
TJ-so 'dmesg' on it's own gets a 'clean' kernel message log13:33
flocculantthanks for that info :)13:34
albert23flocculant: do you press any keys when you boot?13:36
albert23if i don press any key i fall back to my systems grub menu13:36
albert23if i go via the language slector, i can boot 32 bit xubuntu usb stick just fine13:36
TJ-the thing with 'dmesg' is it reads the kernel's ring-buffer, so after a while the earliest messages get over-written with later messages, so it's important to capture 'dmesg' early before that can happen.13:37
flocculantalbert23: doesn't matter if I do or don't - fails anyway13:37
flocculantTJ-: you saying you want me to reboot and grab a clean one?13:37
TJ-flocculant: no, that was just FYI so you know13:38
flocculantTJ-: ok :)13:38
TJ-flocculant: generally after several hours/days the messages being wrapping around the buffer - depends on whether the system started with "quiet" or "debug" verbosity 13:38
flocculantI see - rare this machine doesn't get 2 or 3 boots a day :p13:39
TJ-flocculant: like albert said, if you do a bare metal boot from USB of the i386 ISO, in CSM/Legacy mode, and hit a key when you see the keyboard symbol at bottom of display, select language, then at the boot menu highlight "Try.." then press F6 to get the 'expert boot options' sub-menu, press Esc to dismiss it, then move the cursor on the kernel command-line to before the final "--" and delete "quiet splash13:46
TJ-" and add " debug " then press Enter... that should let you see the kernel messages and possibly see where it gets to and even photograph it before it resets if you're lucky - depends on whether it hangs then reboots or just reboots without warning13:46
TJ-In these situations I set-up a camcorder videoing it and review it afterwards :)13:47
flocculantTJ-: trying that (not sure why I didn't yesterday at least once in the too many times ...) 13:48
flocculantTJ-: not a thing shown 13:49
flocculantwell - cursor for 'that long'13:50
flocculantiirc from last cycle text doesn't work anymore woth systemd - can't remember what you need instead13:50
TJ-works fine here13:51
TJ-that's how i did the tests13:51
flocculantmmm - I'll try again then - remove quiet splash add text?13:51
TJ-no, add "debug"13:51
flocculantoh ok, let me do that13:52
flocculantTJ-: early console in setup code - then it reboots13:55
TJ-was that a message? I don't recognise it13:57
flocculantthat was all there was13:57
flocculantTJ-: thanks for your help - but I'm running out of time now :)13:58
TJ-OK, one last option to add in there with "debug" - add also "earlyprintk=vga"14:01
flocculantok - will do that :)14:01
TJ-flocculant: that should get you VERY early kernel setup messages14:01
flocculantright 14:01
TJ-flocculant: I'm beginning to think this a bug in the system firmware; it's behaving as if the CPU is in 64-bit protected mode trying to execute (kernel) code that expects the CPU to be in 32-bit real mode14:03
flocculantmanaged to capture that on the phone 14:05
TJ-nice one :D14:06
flocculantnot too shaky either :D14:06
TJ-can you attach it to the bug report?14:12
flocculantyea - also trying to read it in vlc - will do it in a short while - little one calling for Dad taxi ... 14:13
TJ-OK :)14:13
flocculantTJ-: attached - back later14:15
flocculantwell watched it slowly - made little sense to me :p14:39
TJ-flocculant: It was enough for me to see roughly where it's resetting. I've been emulating the same CPU as in your PC using QEMU/KVM but can't reproduce it. We really need to capture the log via a serial console14:53
TJ-I suspect it's due to a regression caused by the recent PTI patches, which aren't supposed to affect x86 (only x86_64) but some of the memory-management code is shared 14:57
flocculantTJ-: mmm - not sure how we can accomplish that - also if others can't reproduce then perhaps it's not something to worry about too much, 32 bit for me is something that Xubuntu Team decided to carry on with - not sure how many of that team even have 32 bit hardware to test on, I know I don't14:57
flocculantTJ-: ack - that was sort of the sentiment from infinity in #u-release last night14:58
TJ-I think I've an EFI system lying around somewhere I could test on... not sure which one though :)14:58
flocculantTJ-: don't worry too much - unless of course you want to - I'm kind of waiting for a reply from a lubuntu person in another channel to get involved too :p14:59
TJ-flocculant: well we don't want unbootable ISOs being distributed - best to figure it out early15:01
flocculantwell no of course not - hence the pinging in -release :)15:01
TJ-My method is to collect accurate data to act on rather than guess :)15:01
TJ-which is why I'm after the best logs we can get15:01
flocculantoff for a bit now - time with little one, will be back this evening15:02
flocculantthanks enormously for your help so far :)15:02
gunixhow do i enter grub?16:49
gunixi get the purple screen from ubuntu and than error message16:49
gunixi need to boot CLI mode to disable nvidia driver16:50
TJ-Press  Esc key when firmware hands over to GRUB16:52
gunixi wanted to install kubuntu 17.10 but somehow i managed to install ubuntu 18.0416:53
flocculantTJ-: following up a bit, someone from xubuntu team booted 32 bit iso (though our not quite official core one) on 32 bit machine17:34
flocculantif this issue is it not booting on a 64 bit machine then I'm a bit *shrug* ;)17:35
TJ-well it booted here on x86_64 CPU as well17:36
flocculantso on some 64bit - even more shruggy then :p17:37
flocculantthanks for your help - I think I'll just wait to see what -release say - I'll let you know if I hear anything17:37
tsimonq2flocculant: Hey, sorry, been out of it the last few days... what's up with these ISOs? :)18:06
flocculanttsimonq2: currently not sure tbh - some (at least 1) 64 bit machines not booting 32 bit iso(s)18:07
tsimonq2flocculant: `I18:07
tsimonq2I'll create a task on Phab for wxl to get to testing the stuff.18:08
flocculantcurrently also waiting to see what Adam finds18:08
flocculantother than that I'm now stepping back on this 18:08
* tsimonq2 shamelessly plugs phab.lubuntu.me :P18:08
flocculantsaw that18:08
flocculantwe used trello a few cycles back - fell back to m/l and talking to each other as our default18:09
flocculanthave a good day - wandering 18:09
tsimonq2ok have fun :)18:10
flocculantyou too :)18:10
gunixhow come i downloaded 17.10 and got a great new install of bionic beaver? :D21:38
gunixi mean it works nice but i am confused21:38
tomreyngunix: what's the name of the file you downloaded?21:41
tomreynand if you can tell, where did you download it from21:42
gunixtomreyn: one sec21:45
gunixtomreyn: https://kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/21:45
gunix64 bit one21:45
gunixand i got bionic beaver gnome21:46
tomreyngunix: so this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/17.10.1/release/kubuntu-17.10.1-desktop-amd64.iso21:46
gunixat first i thought i made a mistake21:47
gunixbut than during the installer i noticed that the backgroud image was an aardvark, not a beaver21:48
gunixwell anyway i am happy with the system21:48
tomreynmaybe emntion it in the kubuntu channel21:48
gunixas long as i don't install nvidia, nothing crashes21:48
TJ-nothing wrong with that ISO I just pulled it on21:49
TJ-cat /mnt/.disk/info    21:49
TJ-Kubuntu 17.10 "Artful Aardvark" - Release amd64 (20180105.2)21:49
TJ-$ grep gnome /mnt/casper/filesystem.manifest21:51
TJ-libsoup-gnome2.4-1:amd64        2.60.1-121:51
TJ-it's all pure Kubuntu21:51
gunixmaybe it was a long day for me21:52
gunixanyway i am happy with the system21:52
gunixexcept the theme21:52
gunixbut both lxd and kvm are working so that is great21:52
* tsimonq2 grabs that ISO21:52
TJ-tsimonq2: it's fine; user mistake21:53
gunixhmm i guess you guys are right21:53
gunixi am installing distros since last night21:53
gunixi might have mixed up a USB21:53
tsimonq2TJ-: oh21:54
tsimonq2TJ-: But still... gonna check it to be extra safe :P21:54
TJ-tsimonq2: I just did, see my results above21:55
tsimonq2TJ-: oh, k21:55
gunixit all started when a manager said "so we will do openstack with redhat support. you can manage that, right?" ... so i said "ok better delete my debian and roll a fedora so i get used to redhat better. so i get fedora 27 and everything crashes. and i am like "i am not going back to debian, i'll get something new" ... so i try manjaro and lxd doesn't work. and well from there i installed multiple distros and21:55
gunixthe only distro that works and is new is bionic beaver. 21:55
gunixthough i really don't like this gnome theme :(21:55
tsimonq2gunix: Have you tried CentOS?21:57
gunixcentos is far too old for day to day use21:57
tsimonq2hm ok21:58
gunixi think the best distro atm is debian 9, probably till 18.04 will be live (and themes will work, nvidia drivers won't crash and stuff like that)21:58
gunixat least for me21:58
gunixbut i wanted to switch from kvm to lxd anyway22:00
gunixwhere do i report bugs, since i am on devel version now?22:32
gunixdoes it help anybody if i do?22:32
ubottuIf you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please report it using the command « ubuntu-bug <package> » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.22:34
gunixfor example22:55
gunixgnome integration plugin is not working22:55
gunixwith chromium22:55
gunixsince chromium is now not part of apt22:55
gunixbut in snap22:55
gunixok, i added some themes23:24
gunixit looks great now23:24

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