[02:53] i tried the new slack snap but it doesn't seem to come with a *.desktop file (doesn't show up in launcher or dock). is this normal? === croppa_ is now known as croppa [06:29] anyone knows whats the xserver-xorg-video-intel update about this morning? [06:30] i have an ati graphics and amd cpu [07:54] lotuspsychje: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/2:2.99.917+git20171229-1 [07:54] "New upstream snapshot" [12:21] hey guys [12:21] hey gunix [12:21] what dekstop environment do you recommand for bioniv beaver? [12:21] *bionic beaver ? [12:22] gunix: default ubuntu-desktop is gnome [12:22] that was not the question [12:22] !flavors | gunix [12:22] gunix: Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours [12:22] still not an answer to the question [12:22] lol [12:23] gunix: we dont reccomend desktop enviroments, because its the users choice [12:23] * TJ- recommends the console [12:23] ok, my choise is to know your personal prefferance [12:23] ok, don't tell me what you recommend [12:23] tell me what you use [12:23] :) [12:24] windows [12:24] lol [12:24] morning lotuspsychje :) [12:24] doors [12:24] hey flocculant [12:24] flocculant: I couldn't reproduce your ISO boot failures [12:24] TJ-: I looked when more awake at your link to console [12:25] of course - failing here on hardware [12:25] ok, so are you going to recommend me a desktop environment and tell me what you guys like to use, or are you going to refuse to answer to my question? [12:25] flocculant: I added my findings to the bug report [12:25] TJ-: thanks :) [12:25] gunix: im on gnome, as bionic default [12:25] and I use Xubuntu [12:25] TJ-: useful nonetheless [12:26] flocculant: if it fails on hardware but no in VM best to log the dmesg from a working boot at least so we have some idea of what is being dealt with [12:27] TJ-: aah yes sorry - we'd had the 'oh it works on vm's' conversation with infinity in -release [12:27] lotuspsychje: i've used gnome the last year and i just tried manjaro kde and it feels very nice, however i am not sure if it's stable enough on the beaver ... and i would also like to try budgie since i never used it [12:27] gunix: im having real stable on gnome bionic already [12:27] flocculant: I'll put it on USB and try it [12:28] TJ-: awesome - ftr - you could grab any 32 bit flavour to try - not just xubuntu [12:28] lotuspsychje: i am kind of bored of gnome :( [12:28] acheronuk: but would you know why it installs on my system, package says 'optional' [12:28] flocculant: I use xubuntu mainly [12:29] flocculant: that 32bit issue not solved yet? [12:30] nah - but only found it yesterday and got -release interested last night [12:30] TJ-: \o/ [12:30] gunix: try another flavor? [12:32] valorie tsimonq2 - tried kubuntu/lubuntu at your ends? [12:37] flocculant: can you share whats happening exactly? might search for new bugs perhaps [12:40] lotuspsychje: grab a flavour's 32 bit iso - put it on a usb (or add it as a grub option) boot it - machine reboots [12:40] doesn't happen in vm's that I can see [12:40] flocculant: I can't reproduce on bare hardware [12:41] TJ-: good [12:41] ish [12:41] flocculant: what *exactly* are the symptoms you see? [12:41] perhaps it's just some hardware [12:42] TJ-: start from usb - or grub - it gets to the kbd/human page - starts to boot - then machine restarts [12:42] flocculant: There's a problem with the initial desktop painting but the system boots fine. Desktop takes a while to init [12:42] flocculant: nope, nothing like that [12:42] yea - had that for a while [12:42] TJ-: k [12:42] I've got the -proposed kernel installed for bionic [12:43] flocculant: so you need to provide the exact hardware of your failing system, as I said, attach it's dmesg log to the bug [12:43] well I can add dmesg from this install of course [12:44] flocculant: cant find anything related yet https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+bugs?orderby=-importance&start=0 [12:44] flocculant: you should also be able to capture the failing boot kernel log using netconsole [12:45] TJ-: don't understand how to to do that from usb or grub boot tbh [12:45] I notice the poiner isn't accelerated - moves about 1/8th of the screen with a full wipe across the touchpad [12:50] flocculant: Requires wired Ethernet, but: on another system something like "nc -u -l -p 6666 -s 10.254.1.51 | tee /tmp/bionic-boot-i386.log" (IP address being that of the listening PC) and then on the target interrupt the ISO boot menu and add "netconsole=@10.254.1.99/,@10.254.1.51/" (first IP address is assigned to the booting PC, second address is where to send the console messages (the listening PC) [12:52] TJ-: aah right - so only got 1 machine [12:54] flocculant: is the system using the syslinux or GRUB bootloader? [12:56] TJ-: I can reliably fail the boot from the iso I've got in the grub bootloader [12:56] lotuspsychje: what flavour are you on? [12:57] acheronuk: gnome [12:57] acheronuk: ubuntu-desktop vanilla [12:57] flocculant: right, but which bootloader is the ISO using!? [12:58] grub [12:59] flocculant: You really need to test it from a USB or DVD/CD boot rather than using a GRUB chainload, to verify the issue is due to the ISO and not due to your intermediate GRUB config [12:59] flocculant: how is it using GRUB? is the system booting with EFI? [12:59] TJ-: I've done both - in fact I did getting on for 10 from usb [12:59] not using efi [13:00] lotuspsychje: ok. gdm3 recommends xserver-xorg; xserver-xorg recommends xserver-xorg-video-all; xserver-xorg-video-all recommends xserver-xorg-video-intel [13:00] TJ-: F12 to boot menu, choose usb - get a grub menu [13:00] or some similar chain apt followed [13:01] flocculant: if the ISO shows the GRUB menu it's booting using EFI mode [13:01] TJ-: hang on :) [13:03] ok yea - you're right sorry [13:03] flocculant: The ISOs are hybrid. If starting on a BIOS system they'll use isolinux (syslinux) for a USB mass-storage device, and for an ISO-9660/El Torito native CD boot. If the system boots using EFI mode it uses GRUB [13:04] flocculant: so, all this is important to specify in the bug report to enable others to understand the precise scenario and attempt to reproduce it [13:04] yea - I think at some point I got the grub menu picking the efi option from the machine boot menu [13:05] flocculant: and when in front of the the various ISO boot methods you've got a system-installed (presumably EFI) GRUB bootloader effectively chain-loading an ISO, things become hidiously complicated [13:05] tbh - not that bothered about 32bit not working - I never use it - I just tested the option and it fails [13:06] machine is 64 bit - and secure boot etc is all turned off as far as I remember [13:06] flocculant: Well, if the system is booting using 64-bit EFI into GRUB x86_64 EFI, I'd expect a 32-bit image boot to fail [13:07] TJ-: you thinkg it's failing because the machine is 64 bit? [13:07] and I don't use efi [13:08] flocculant: This is why you need to precisely specify the scenario when reporting issues like this. You're now revealing extremely important information that is significant [13:09] mmm [13:12] I still don't fully understand it, but it sounds like this: EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc > loopback ISO 32-bit [ SKIP ISO's BOOTLOADER ENTIRELY ] > load vmlinuz/initrd directly [13:16] TJ-: but if secure boot etc is all off - isn't it just a 64bit machine booting a 32 bit iso - like I've done hundreds of times in the past [13:17] nothing has changed on this machine for some years [13:17] so I'm even more confused than I was now :D [13:18] flocculant: disabling Secure-Boot doesn't change the boot mode of the PC [13:19] flocculant: is it the PC you're on right now? [13:19] yea [13:20] flocculant: if so, does "ls /sys/firmware/efi/efivars" list files? [13:20] ls: cannot access '/sys/firmware/efi/efivars': No such file or directory [13:21] flocculant: OK, and if you do "ls /boot/grub/" do you see "i386-pc" and/or "x86_64-efi" directories? [13:22] TJ-: nope [13:22] sorry [13:22] i386 in /boot/grub [13:23] flocculant: OK so it's booting in BIOS mode, so you've got EFI-PC > CSM-BIOS > grub-pc [13:24] flocculant: can you attach the system's current dmesg log to the bug and I'll see if I can spot anything to give a clue [13:26] TJ-: if there was one I would - how about a journalctl file [13:26] flocculant: "dmesg > /tmp/dmesg.log" then attach /tmp/dmesg.log [13:27] TJ-: there is no dmesg in /var/log [13:27] flocculant: use the command I just gave you. "dmesg" is a command not a file, it reads the kernel's ring buffer [13:29] TJ-: attached it - expected to see dmesg in /var/log tbh - used to live there [13:33] flocculant: it's directed to /var/log/kern.log now [13:33] aah right [13:33] but other 'stuff' gets put in that file by syslog too [13:33] :) [13:33] so 'dmesg' on it's own gets a 'clean' kernel message log [13:34] thanks for that info :) [13:36] flocculant: do you press any keys when you boot? [13:36] if i don press any key i fall back to my systems grub menu [13:36] if i go via the language slector, i can boot 32 bit xubuntu usb stick just fine [13:37] the thing with 'dmesg' is it reads the kernel's ring-buffer, so after a while the earliest messages get over-written with later messages, so it's important to capture 'dmesg' early before that can happen. [13:37] albert23: doesn't matter if I do or don't - fails anyway [13:37] TJ-: you saying you want me to reboot and grab a clean one? [13:38] flocculant: no, that was just FYI so you know [13:38] TJ-: ok :) [13:38] flocculant: generally after several hours/days the messages being wrapping around the buffer - depends on whether the system started with "quiet" or "debug" verbosity [13:39] s/being/begin. [13:39] I see - rare this machine doesn't get 2 or 3 boots a day :p [13:46] flocculant: like albert said, if you do a bare metal boot from USB of the i386 ISO, in CSM/Legacy mode, and hit a key when you see the keyboard symbol at bottom of display, select language, then at the boot menu highlight "Try.." then press F6 to get the 'expert boot options' sub-menu, press Esc to dismiss it, then move the cursor on the kernel command-line to before the final "--" and delete "quiet splash [13:46] " and add " debug " then press Enter... that should let you see the kernel messages and possibly see where it gets to and even photograph it before it resets if you're lucky - depends on whether it hangs then reboots or just reboots without warning [13:47] In these situations I set-up a camcorder videoing it and review it afterwards :) [13:48] TJ-: trying that (not sure why I didn't yesterday at least once in the too many times ...) [13:49] TJ-: not a thing shown [13:50] well - cursor for 'that long' [13:50] iirc from last cycle text doesn't work anymore woth systemd - can't remember what you need instead [13:51] works fine here [13:51] that's how i did the tests [13:51] mmm - I'll try again then - remove quiet splash add text? [13:51] no, add "debug" [13:52] oh ok, let me do that [13:55] TJ-: early console in setup code - then it reboots [13:57] was that a message? I don't recognise it [13:57] that was all there was [13:58] TJ-: thanks for your help - but I'm running out of time now :) [14:01] OK, one last option to add in there with "debug" - add also "earlyprintk=vga" [14:01] ok - will do that :) [14:01] flocculant: that should get you VERY early kernel setup messages [14:01] right [14:01] brb [14:03] flocculant: I'm beginning to think this a bug in the system firmware; it's behaving as if the CPU is in 64-bit protected mode trying to execute (kernel) code that expects the CPU to be in 32-bit real mode [14:05] managed to capture that on the phone [14:06] nice one :D [14:06] not too shaky either :D [14:12] can you attach it to the bug report? [14:13] yea - also trying to read it in vlc - will do it in a short while - little one calling for Dad taxi ... [14:13] OK :) [14:15] TJ-: attached - back later [14:39] well watched it slowly - made little sense to me :p [14:53] flocculant: It was enough for me to see roughly where it's resetting. I've been emulating the same CPU as in your PC using QEMU/KVM but can't reproduce it. We really need to capture the log via a serial console [14:57] I suspect it's due to a regression caused by the recent PTI patches, which aren't supposed to affect x86 (only x86_64) but some of the memory-management code is shared [14:57] TJ-: mmm - not sure how we can accomplish that - also if others can't reproduce then perhaps it's not something to worry about too much, 32 bit for me is something that Xubuntu Team decided to carry on with - not sure how many of that team even have 32 bit hardware to test on, I know I don't [14:58] TJ-: ack - that was sort of the sentiment from infinity in #u-release last night [14:58] I think I've an EFI system lying around somewhere I could test on... not sure which one though :) [14:59] TJ-: don't worry too much - unless of course you want to - I'm kind of waiting for a reply from a lubuntu person in another channel to get involved too :p [15:01] flocculant: well we don't want unbootable ISOs being distributed - best to figure it out early [15:01] well no of course not - hence the pinging in -release :) [15:01] My method is to collect accurate data to act on rather than guess :) [15:01] :) [15:01] which is why I'm after the best logs we can get [15:02] off for a bit now - time with little one, will be back this evening [15:02] thanks enormously for your help so far :) [16:49] how do i enter grub? [16:49] i get the purple screen from ubuntu and than error message [16:50] i need to boot CLI mode to disable nvidia driver [16:52] Press Esc key when firmware hands over to GRUB [16:53] i wanted to install kubuntu 17.10 but somehow i managed to install ubuntu 18.04 [16:53] ... [17:34] TJ-: following up a bit, someone from xubuntu team booted 32 bit iso (though our not quite official core one) on 32 bit machine [17:35] if this issue is it not booting on a 64 bit machine then I'm a bit *shrug* ;) [17:36] well it booted here on x86_64 CPU as well [17:37] so on some 64bit - even more shruggy then :p [17:37] thanks for your help - I think I'll just wait to see what -release say - I'll let you know if I hear anything [18:06] flocculant: Hey, sorry, been out of it the last few days... what's up with these ISOs? :) [18:07] tsimonq2: currently not sure tbh - some (at least 1) 64 bit machines not booting 32 bit iso(s) [18:07] flocculant: `I [18:07] grr [18:08] I'll create a task on Phab for wxl to get to testing the stuff. [18:08] currently also waiting to see what Adam finds [18:08] Alright. [18:08] other than that I'm now stepping back on this [18:08] * tsimonq2 shamelessly plugs phab.lubuntu.me :P [18:08] mmm [18:08] saw that [18:09] we used trello a few cycles back - fell back to m/l and talking to each other as our default [18:09] have a good day - wandering [18:10] ok have fun :) [18:10] you too :) [21:38] how come i downloaded 17.10 and got a great new install of bionic beaver? :D [21:38] i mean it works nice but i am confused [21:41] gunix: what's the name of the file you downloaded? [21:42] and if you can tell, where did you download it from [21:45] tomreyn: one sec [21:45] tomreyn: https://kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/ [21:45] 64 bit one [21:46] and i got bionic beaver gnome [21:46] :)) [21:46] gunix: so this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/17.10.1/release/kubuntu-17.10.1-desktop-amd64.iso [21:47] yes [21:47] at first i thought i made a mistake [21:48] but than during the installer i noticed that the backgroud image was an aardvark, not a beaver [21:48] well anyway i am happy with the system [21:48] maybe emntion it in the kubuntu channel [21:48] as long as i don't install nvidia, nothing crashes [21:49] nothing wrong with that ISO I just pulled it on [21:49] cat /mnt/.disk/info [21:49] Kubuntu 17.10 "Artful Aardvark" - Release amd64 (20180105.2) [21:51] $ grep gnome /mnt/casper/filesystem.manifest [21:51] libsoup-gnome2.4-1:amd64 2.60.1-1 [21:51] it's all pure Kubuntu [21:52] maybe it was a long day for me [21:52] anyway i am happy with the system [21:52] except the theme [21:52] uh [21:52] what? [21:52] but both lxd and kvm are working so that is great [21:52] * tsimonq2 grabs that ISO [21:53] tsimonq2: it's fine; user mistake [21:53] hmm i guess you guys are right [21:53] i am installing distros since last night [21:53] i might have mixed up a USB [21:54] TJ-: oh [21:54] ok [21:54] TJ-: But still... gonna check it to be extra safe :P [21:55] tsimonq2: I just did, see my results above [21:55] TJ-: oh, k [21:55] thanks [21:55] it all started when a manager said "so we will do openstack with redhat support. you can manage that, right?" ... so i said "ok better delete my debian and roll a fedora so i get used to redhat better. so i get fedora 27 and everything crashes. and i am like "i am not going back to debian, i'll get something new" ... so i try manjaro and lxd doesn't work. and well from there i installed multiple distros and [21:55] the only distro that works and is new is bionic beaver. [21:55] though i really don't like this gnome theme :( [21:57] gunix: Have you tried CentOS? [21:57] centos is far too old for day to day use [21:58] hm ok [21:58] i think the best distro atm is debian 9, probably till 18.04 will be live (and themes will work, nvidia drivers won't crash and stuff like that) [21:58] at least for me [22:00] but i wanted to switch from kvm to lxd anyway [22:32] where do i report bugs, since i am on devel version now? [22:32] does it help anybody if i do? [22:34] !bug [22:34] If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please report it using the command « ubuntu-bug » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs. [22:55] for example [22:55] gnome integration plugin is not working [22:55] with chromium [22:55] since chromium is now not part of apt [22:55] but in snap [22:55] :D [23:24] ok, i added some themes [23:24] it looks great now