[04:39] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:40] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. WB .
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
[04:47] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Time to wakem up ! It's got slow again .
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> lets do it!
[05:05] <pauljw> gnite all
[07:43] <ducasse> morning, everyone
[07:43] <oerheks> hi ducasse , earlybird
[07:45] <ducasse> hi oerheks - how's your morning?
[07:45] <oerheks> yesterday i picked up Pien from mama, had an early walk too
[07:46] <oerheks> Drabber is jealous :-D
[07:46] <oerheks> .. and oh so sweat today
[07:46] <oerheks> And how are you and the missy?
[07:48] <ducasse> we're good, thanks. just about to open the window so the little lady can see if she wants to go out. (i'm guessing she won't)
[07:50] <oerheks> nice blue sky today, pretty cold, maybe we get finally some snow
[07:51] <JanC> oerheks: unlikely you get snow when the sky is clear blue  :)
[07:52] <JanC> there need to be clouds for that
[07:52] <ducasse> really grey here, but not too cold. had even more snow yesterday..
[07:52] <oerheks> oh, mystery solved
[07:53] <JanC> freezing is possible, of course
[07:57] <ducasse> oerheks: i was right. she went out a few steps, then reversed back inside :)
[07:58] <oerheks> Piens first steps outside were 'omg, why?' .. but at the end she was really happy
[08:02] <ducasse> i've had about enough of this snow for this winter, hope it melts soon.
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> good sunday for all
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ systemd-analyze time
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> Startup finished in 6.423s (kernel) + 13.908s (userspace) = 20.331s
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> tweaked a few systemd services
[09:18] <lotuspsychje> bleachbit cleanup 1gb and swappiness 10 on bionic
[09:52] <EriC^^> afternoon everyone
[10:00] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[10:01] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[10:01] <EriC^^> how's it going?
[10:08] <lotuspsychje> fine here EriC^^
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: trimmed down a few systemd services
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> Startup finished in 6.423s (kernel) + 13.908s (userspace) = 20.331s
[10:13] <EriC^^> ncie
[10:13] <EriC^^> *nice
[10:13] <EriC^^> what's for lunch?
[10:13] <lotuspsychje> vegetarian oven dish
[10:14] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what you havin mate
[10:20] <lotuspsychje> hmm cool bots at #systemd
[10:21] <lotuspsychje>  [sd-bot] (sztanpet@znc.sztanpet.net): http://sd-bot.sztanpet.net/
[10:28] <EriC^^> thinking about ordering pizza hut
[10:28] <EriC^^> watching any good movies today?
[10:28] <lotuspsychje> mmmmm
[10:28] <lotuspsychje> no :p
[10:29] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: gonna make it movie day?
[10:29] <EriC^^> if there's something good to watch sure
[10:30] <EriC^^> there's a new movie but the quality is cam, The Commuter , liam neison
[10:30] <EriC^^> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1590193/ 6.5/10 imdb
[10:31] <lotuspsychje> aha yes
[10:32] <lotuspsychje> that one plays in our theaters now
[10:32] <EriC^^> aha
[10:32] <EriC^^> seems ok
[10:33] <lotuspsychje> i like liam
[10:33] <EriC^^> yeah you better :P
[10:33] <EriC^^> he will find you, and make you like him
[10:35] <lotuspsychje> lol
[10:35] <lotuspsychje> taken
[11:02] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: if you come back to life and you have to choose an animal, which one would you choose?
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> an eagle
[11:02] <EriC^^> nice, very nice
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> always wanted to fly around a bit
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> you?
[11:02] <EriC^^> eagle is at the top of the food chain right?
[11:03] <EriC^^> hmm i used to think orca, cause nothing eats it, it even eats great whites, plus they're playful and live in groups, also they have higher emotional intelligence than humans even and very intelligent
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> wasnt that a lion?
[11:03] <EriC^^> lately been thinking lions, they are pretty awesome
[11:03] <EriC^^> lions you kind of get fucked
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> i always like african cats docu
[11:03] <EriC^^> 1/8 of males die
[11:04] <EriC^^> lions, they have families called 'prides' and the women hunt, the males secure the territory, and help sometimes if they prey is very large
[11:04] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:04] <lotuspsychje> i always like the confrontations bewteen those wild animals
[11:05] <EriC^^> and if other lion males come, and they dominate the pride males, then they take the women and become the males of the pride, and they kill the male cups so only their genes get passed on
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> buffalo vs lions
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> hyena vs lions etc
[11:05] <EriC^^> yeah
[11:05] <EriC^^> hyena's are very interesting, they're a matriarchal (sp?) society, the women are the dominant ones
[11:05] <EriC^^> males always are less dominant than the females
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> hardest jaws of africa
[11:06] <EriC^^> they're extremely dominant though, like if 2 are born, sister and bro, the sister is automatically dominant, if 2 brothers are born, even as infants they might kill eachother
[11:06] <EriC^^> cause they're born mobile, with teeth, and can see
[11:07] <EriC^^> the shitty part about lions though is that they eat so much, sometimes like 50kg, you need to hunt so much to stay not hungry
[11:08] <EriC^^> i dunno if they're top of food chain though, like something else hunts them.. hmm
[11:08] <lotuspsychje> the whole pact eats alot
[11:09] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you see that wolf movie with liam?
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> the grey are something?
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> 6.8 imdb
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[11:10] <BluesKaj> Howdy foilks
[11:11] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
[11:11] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: nope i didnt
[11:11] <EriC^^> what's the name of it?
[11:11] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the grey
[11:11] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: think your gonna like it
[11:11] <EriC^^> man i was suprised the other day, hugh jackman is married to a girl he used to act with, she's 13 years older than him, 63 now, and he's 50, they've been married for 21 years! longest in hollywood maybe:P
[11:12] <EriC^^> aha thanks lotuspsychje
[11:12] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
[11:13] <BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
[11:16] <BluesKaj> decided to try netfix again, but so far there's nothing that catches my interest .mosy movies seem to target "milllenials"...zombie and so called action movies ...bah. I'll probly cancel before the trial period is over...kind of disappointing really
[11:16] <BluesKaj> netflix :-)
[11:17] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: 10 dollar?
[11:17] <BluesKaj> yeah
[11:19] <BluesKaj> the US version has abetter selection due to the medisarights
[11:19] <lotuspsychje> aha
[11:19] <BluesKaj> media rights'
[11:19] <lotuspsychje> i wouldnt spent money on it neither BluesKaj
[11:20] <BluesKaj> think I'll cancel today
[11:20] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:31] <BluesKaj> done
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> neat BluesKaj
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw wb
[12:10] <pauljw> hey lotuspsychje :)
[12:10] <pauljw> everyone
[12:10] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[12:11] <pauljw> hi BluesKaj
[12:15] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: <lotuspsychje> !Netplan is Netplan is a utility for easily configuring networking on a system visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Netplan for more info
 Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
[12:15] <oerheks> :-D
[12:15] <lotuspsychje> bbl coffee & roomsoesjes
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[16:47] <pauljw> hi lotuspsychje :)
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> anyone knows a GUI systemd manager to enable/disable services?
[16:59] <TJ-> yuk :)
[17:00] <TJ-> !info systemd-ui
[17:08] <hggdh> perhaps we should ask for it on *buntu?
[17:09] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: yeah would be a nice idea
[17:10] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: ive been tweaking it manually on bionic today, would be nice to have gui for users
[17:20] <TJ-> it's defunct, it was in up to 17.04
[17:20] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes, I agree. As soon as I finish cleaning the house I will try to search for such a bug and, if not found, open one
[17:21] <TJ-> abandonware
[17:25] <hggdh> oh
[17:26] <hggdh> yeah, they are in stable and old-stable only
[17:38] <hggdh> debian bug 864954 was the removal request, June 2017. Abandonware for (then) 3 years
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> !info systemd-manager
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> !info chkservice
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> !info chkservice bionic
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> lemme try that
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ- hggdh thats looks pretty usefull
[18:05] <TJ-> it was abandoned in 2014/15 from what I can see
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: why does bionic have it then?
[18:07] <TJ-> where? I checked packages.ubuntu.com and it didn't show up as either -gui or -ui packages
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: well its from terminal, but graphically
[18:09] <TJ-> which package is it in?
[18:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: howto check
[18:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: "dpkg -S <programname>"
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26432009/
[18:17] <TJ-> so very new; Sept 2017
[18:17] <hggdh> rmadison reports it in Bionic, version 0.1-2
[18:18] <TJ-> right, from https://github.com/linuxenko/chkservice
[18:18] <hggdh> and debian has it on testing and unstable
[18:18] <TJ-> it's not GUI it's TUI - ncurses
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah its from terminal, but better then manual enable/disable TJ- ?
[18:19] <TJ-> possibly; but makes it easy for someone to disable services because they think they don't need them and not tell us when asking for support
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> also true
[18:19] <TJ-> I'd much prefer "systemctl disable <service>" more likely they'll remember specifics when asked :)
[18:20] <TJ-> you know what 'users' are like when they think that can optimise
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: well i disabled like 8 we dont really need by default, that makes system boot into desktop slow
[18:21] <hggdh> as any tool that deals with low-level configuration, it can be abused by ignorant people
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: systemd's way of thinking, the users choice to disable what one needs?
[18:21] <hggdh> (ignorant is not demeaning here)
[18:22] <TJ-> hggdh: A little knowledge is dangerous
[18:22] <hggdh> TJ-: aboslutely agree. But, on the other hand, a system built for idiots is only usable by idiots
[18:22] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've found that allowing easy access to disable system services through easy clicks means folks will see things they don't recognise and disable them
[18:23] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: thats true, but like orca? who really needs/uses that?
[18:23] <lotuspsychje> cups for laptops?
[18:23] <pauljw> freedom is such a messy business...
[18:24] <TJ-> I need cups on laptops
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> okay, advanced users :p
[18:24] <hggdh> TJ-: also: I once installed sshguard, and then gave up on it, going back to fail2ban. I *did* apt purge it, but the systemd config was left in, enabled
[18:24] <hggdh> now I can disable it with just hitting [space].
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: check what i disabled: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26432083/
[18:25] <hggdh> of course, I should open a bug on sshguard as well
[18:25] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the issue is one of the user action not being easliy traceable by us during support - we assume the standard services are enabled so having to double-check on a lower level just makes the task more difficult and easy to miss
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i totaly agree mate, but boot speed vs services security?
[18:25] <TJ-> hggdh: haha, yeah, that can really catch you out when you execpt purge to cover everything
[18:26] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: how often do people really reboot? and what is 30 seconds when most spend more time trying to decide where to put desktop icons or decide on filenames !?
[18:26] <hggdh> ah well, so much for wishful thinking. Hitting [space] on sshguard.service returns "Falied: invalid argument" :-)
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: : (
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i look at it this way, we install a bloody fast ssd, tweak system then systemd bottlenecks it again
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: same for braille support? regular user doesnt need it?
[18:30] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I use suspend/resume - it's instant
[18:31] <TJ-> I've been using kexec for kernel updates recently too ... and finding a lot of bugs :D
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: well i placed a bug on bionic for being slow login to desktop already
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1742063
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: compared to 16.04 with systemd, this is really slow
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> devs want bionic same feeling for the xenial updaters, so lets hope..
[18:34] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's not systemd though, it's a service the desktop relies on. presumably plymouth and the wait-online
[18:35] <TJ-> "systemd-analyze critical-chain" is really useful in these cases
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> apt.daily took longest in my case, so disabled it, but takes ages to boot also
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26432164/
[18:39] <TJ-> so it's taking 9 seconds to bring up the network - presumably Wifi - "NetworkManager-wait-online.service @3.992s +9.171s"
[18:41] <TJ-> looks like teamviewer or it's reverse-depends might be slowing things down, have you tried disabling teamviewer as a test?
[18:41] <TJ-> the rest is like the GUI initialising looking at that
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: teamviewer was not installed at time of the bug yet
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: apt.daily was ontop of the list, so tryed to disable unnattended updates
[18:43] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: ok, so It looks like it takes up to 3.9 + 9.1 seconds for it to get online, the rest is getting the GUI started
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> kk
[18:44] <TJ-> I've seen a lot of 18.04 bugs in the gnome-session causing delays
[18:49] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[18:49] <lotuspsychje> lets hope all that gets fixxed TJ-
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om a
[18:59] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hiya ! Have I missed much during my snooze time ?
[19:00] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yeah pretty active session here
[19:02] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Great, lemme refill the caffine dispenser and I settle in :)
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> yess
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> we need more hands
[19:04] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: - See what I can do :P
[19:08] <TJ-> !hwe
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: gopal amdgpu-radeon issue on xenial, nukem 120sec kworker shotdown time on xenial & artful (nomodeset)
[19:13] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not to hot on hybrid AMD ,,, My take on it is that it is not too functional as of this time .
[19:14] <TJ-> this is weird, it's like the amdgpu driver doesn't recognise the device but I checked it declares the modalias that matches the GPU
[19:15] <TJ-> and lspci confirms that, listing amdgpu as an option
[19:15] <TJ-> as seen here https://paste.ubuntu.com/26432284/
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
[19:15] <TJ-> the radeon driver did bind to it
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i think dax got an amdgpu working
[19:17] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Might gets some hints in the /var/log/gpu-manager.log file ??
[19:20] <TJ-> Bashing-om: does that cover kernel module loading? hmmm, these hybrids annoy me
[19:22] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Yes, it does .. will have that notification if a module does not load .
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> nice find Bashing-om
[19:24] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Won't give a solution but sure tells of a serious problem :)
[19:27]  * lotuspsychje thinks alot of supporting will be needed on 18.04...
[19:28] <TJ-> this is getting painful
[19:29] <Bashing-om> TJ-: AMD hybrid in my experience is painful now-a-days .
[19:30] <lotuspsychje> amdgpu,nvidia...wayland
[19:33] <Bashing-om> TJ-: IRT gopal " The device is not bound to any driver. Skipping..." Have nessed with this before, and have yet to find a solution . several bugs open woth that -25/26 kernel .
[19:33] <TJ-> yes, things getting worse not better
[19:33] <TJ-> Bashing-om: I have an idea about that not binding...
[19:34] <TJ-> ... the modalias might match on the primary vendor:device ID but not the sub-system vendor:device ID - in this case the sub-system is 103c:81ec: "Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Sun XT [Radeon HD 8670A/8670M/8690M / R5 M330] [103c:81ec]"
[19:35] <TJ-> no, I'm wrong, the modalias is a wildcard for sv:sd
[19:35] <TJ->  modinfo -F alias amdgpu | grep '1002.*6660'
[19:35] <TJ-> pci:v00001002d00006660sv*sd*bc*sc*i*
[19:36] <Bashing-om> TJ-: And there is this " Removing xorg.conf. Path: /etc/X11/xorg.conf " .. for the switching to work, got to have this config file, yes ?
[19:37] <TJ-> I don't know, but by then it's too late!
[19:37] <TJ-> Error: can't access /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:01:00.0/driver
[19:37] <TJ-> The device is not bound to any driver. Skipping...
[19:37] <TJ-> ^^^ that's the issue
[19:37] <TJ-> *why* is amdgpu not binding and /not/ reporting any problem in kernel log
[19:39] <Bashing-om> TJ-: As said, seen it before, I have no solution - will be real glad to learn as WE will see this again and again .
[19:40] <TJ-> I'm going to try to get him to try the 4.15rc8 mainline build
[19:40] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: interesting for nukem? https://www.blackmoreops.com/2014/09/22/linux-kernel-panic-issue-fix-hung_task_timeout_secs-blocked-120-seconds-problem/
[19:43] <TJ-> can't imagine slow I/O on a fresh install on bare hardware unless the device is dying
[19:44] <lotuspsychje> weird he's got it on both ubuntu versions right?
[19:44] <TJ-> yes, on bare metal and in a Windows-host+VirtualBox
[19:46] <TJ-> Could one of you test my mainline download tool? I think first time it's used it may ask you to install the kernel PPA signing cert . run it as "./wget_kernel_mainline.sh -d" (download only mode - won't install)
[19:46] <TJ-> From http://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/wget_kernel_mainline.sh
[19:46] <TJ-> if gopal asks I want to be ready !
[19:49] <TJ-> I'm a dolt! I can do it in a container, sorry!
[19:50] <hggdh> TJ-: but seems to work (I ran with -l and -d only)
[19:50] <hggdh> ls
[19:50] <TJ-> hggdh: did it not prompt to add a signing key? maybe you already have the key
[19:50] <hggdh> TJ-: I probably already have it, have used the mainline before
[19:51] <Bashing-om> TJ-: hold my hand as I get " bash: ./wget_kernel_mainline.sh: No such file or directory " runninh just " ./wget_kernel_mainline.sh -d " .
[19:51] <hggdh> nope
[19:51] <TJ-> Bashing-om: did you run it on a file-system with 'noexec' set, or not do "chmod +x wget-kernel_mainline.sh" ?
[19:51] <hggdh> signature checking failed
[19:52] <TJ-> hggdh: Grrr, and I got "./wget_kernel_mainline.sh: line 102: gpg2: command not found" in the container :D
[19:53] <TJ-> I also got "  do you need to add the package signing key to the system keyring?"
[19:53] <hggdh> after manuall importing the key, I re-run it, and sig was checked
[19:53] <hggdh> now, it would be nice for the tool to print out, at the end, where it saved the kernel(s)
[19:54] <TJ-> good point .. sub-dir with the version
[19:55] <TJ-> the nice thing it is doesn't re-download anything it already fetched so you can re-run it
[19:56] <hggdh> yes, I saw that. But I got the file "mainline-kernel.list" on the cwd
[19:57] <hggdh> TJ-: nice. Better than manually grabbing the debs
[20:01] <TJ-> yes, without args it fetches the latest, else the version you specify on the cmdline
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> holy smoking! https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=nvidia
[20:03] <hggdh> TJ-: thank you :-)
[20:04] <TJ-> hggdh: I've pushed a revised version to my server
[20:05] <hggdh> seems good. Now I simply ran it, and installation was OK
[20:06] <TJ-> you may also like my http://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/grub_custom_sort_menu.tar.gz which adds sub-menus to GRUB for mainline and rc builds to prevent them being the default entries
[20:07] <TJ-> and the dpkg-divert wrapper I have there which goes in /usr/local/sbin/ to auto-create directories in the dpkg-divert rename path
[20:08] <hggdh> TJ-: downloaded, will check as soon as I have time (still have to finish cleaning the house, and then have to send out my expense report for the week (*must* be ent today, or they delay payment)
[20:08] <TJ-> I use it to move everything under /etc/dpkg-divert/...original-path/file to make it simple to see what I've moved in 1 heirachry
[20:08] <TJ-> hggdh: :)
[20:10] <TJ-> Can I just resign now!? I feel like I'm going down a rabbit hole
[20:10] <lotuspsychje> enough for today..
[20:10] <lotuspsychje> laterz guys
[20:11] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Nope, too far in to back out now :) .. we all be looking over your shoulder see what we can learn .
[20:36] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Still looking but : https://askubuntu.com/questions/939689/installing-oibafs-drivers-for-amd-r5-m430-on-ubuntu-16-04/939693 seems to suggest there is no driver for that card . PPA .
[20:37] <TJ-> weird, since both radeon and amdgpu both declare a modalias for it
[20:38] <TJ-> this bug ioria discovered looks spot on