nacc"< subcool> Brb, just found out my dad had a Heart attack.. brb"00:22
naccthere'snot really any reason to be "right back" for that00:22
Bashing-omnacc: What a day !00:23
nacceverybody's got a case of the mondays!00:23
naccBashing-om: :)00:23
Bashing-omnacc: :) .. Maybe I got it real bad .00:24
TJ-nacc: well unless subcool is a para-medic not much he can do!00:47
daftykinsi took it more as meaning going off to be told by a family member what happened00:48
naccTJ-: yeah, and i guess i'd assume leave to maybe deal with it00:48
TJ- Docfixit is now known as Docbreakit01:17
naccis it possible tatertots = Trump?01:26
Bashing-omnacc: rj: I vote that support would be enhanced if one tatertot were absent . I have dropped assistance when he intrudes .01:26
TJ-nacc: I've asked ops to have a quiet word01:26
naccBashing-om: yeah01:26
nacci've definitely told them before to stop trolling/ giving terrible advice01:26
naccTJ-: thanks01:26
TJ-I like how he asks for yes/no answers where we sometimes get unclear answers, but it goes over the top01:27
hggdhTJ-: what gives with tatertota02:27
hggdhah. Backlog helps.02:30
TJ-hggdh: not sure, but he got a little stroppy after nacc asked him to tone down a bit02:30
hggdhyeah, just read the backlog02:31
hggdhin general, it is better to conduct this type of dialog somewhere else than #u02:31
* hggdh is wearing an offical hat02:32
hggdhbut I think I see it.02:32
hggdhanyway. Event is still going on.02:33
hggdhbut, in general, being smarty when dealing with users is not a good idea02:36
TJ-I like his boolean questioning style but it goes too far at times02:37
daftykinsis user an idiot? true/false02:37
hggdhindeed. And it ends up, usually, being aggressive02:38
TJ-my only peeze with his commands is he doesn't put spaces around the pipe | symbol!02:39
TJ-peeze? peeve02:39
hggdhah, thank you, I thougth there was a new slang in English I had somehow missed :-)02:39
TJ-no, just my A.I. fingers that decide what to type02:40
TJ-it's predictive texting IRC style02:40
hggdhI know how it is, my fingers -- not me, just my fingers -- are usually dyslexic02:40
hggdhbut, anyway, event is still on-going.02:41
TJ-yeah.. do you get it where you KNOW what you're going to type, you send the message to your fingers, you WATCH them type, then look at the screen and there's something totally different there?02:41
hggdhbecause they are in cohorts, your brain and your fingers. I accepted it, and now I (usually) do not care02:42
* hggdh goes back to movie and wisky02:42
daftykinsi've noticed folk not spacing around a pipe, very unpleasant to read02:43
lotuspsychjegood morning to all05:23
Ben64-edge is still behind on kernel update : /06:05
lotuspsychjedue to meltdown Ben64 ?06:07
Ben64the normal hwe keeps progressing and edge is behind now06:08
Ben64!info linux-generic-hwe-16.0406:08
ubot5Package linux-generic-hwe-16.04 does not exist in artful06:08
Ben64!info linux-generic-hwe-16.04 xenial06:08
ubot5linux-generic-hwe-16.04 (source: linux-meta-hwe): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 10 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf; arm64; ppc64el; s390x)06:08
Ben64!info linux-generic-hwe-16.04-edge xenial06:08
ubot5linux-generic-hwe-16.04-edge (source: linux-meta-hwe-edge): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 10 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf; arm64; ppc64el; s390x)06:08
Ben64normal and edge should be the same until 18.04's kernel is final06:10
lotuspsychjei see06:10
Ben64then edge will be 18.04's, and normal will still be 4.1306:10
lotuspsychjemorning EriC^^06:11
EriC^^morning lotuspsychje06:13
lotuspsychje!info google-tasks-indicator06:13
ubot5Package google-tasks-indicator does not exist in artful06:13
lordievaderGood morning07:11
lotuspsychjemorning lordievader07:11
lotuspsychjeall ok there?07:11
lordievaderDoing good here07:12
lordievaderGot a new phone yesterday since my nexus 5x died sunday07:12
lordievaderHow are you lotuspsychje ?07:13
lotuspsychjefine here lordievader07:13
EriC^^what's the plan today lotuspsychje ?07:16
jinkGood morning, fellow monkeys.07:19
ducassemorning, all07:50
lotuspsychjebbl work07:59
=== kostkon_ is now known as kostkon
pauljwhi everyone12:53
pauljwhey lordievader :)12:56
lordievaderHow are you doing, pauljw ?12:56
pauljwso far so good, only been awake for about an hour...12:57
pauljwyou doing okay?12:57
lordievaderYeah, allright 😀12:59
BluesKajHey folks13:19
ducassehi BluesKaj - wb :)13:23
pauljwhi BluesKaj :)13:25
pauljwEriC^^ :)13:25
BluesKajHi ducasse, pauljw, EriC^^13:28
EriC^^hey BluesKaj pauljw :)13:38
=== kostkon_ is now known as kostkon
naccseriously, zesty is showing how many people should *not* have run non-LTS16:23
daftykinsupgrade troubles?16:25
naccpeople hitting the 40416:26
daftykinsoh after the mirror being moved?16:27
naccremoved :)16:28
immuhi all16:33
EriC^^hey immu16:34
immuhey EriC^^ my friend how are you doing16:34
EriC^^good thanks you?16:35
daftykinstechnically they go to old-releases.ubuntu.com so more moved eh ;)16:41
daftykinsguys \o16:42
daftykinsbrb another kernel for xenial :P *sigh*16:45
oerheksdoes windows keep old-releases too ? i find it a bad idea, actually16:47
nacc it's a terrible idea16:47
naccit makes people think it's ok to not upgrade16:48
naccbut so be it16:48
daftykinseventually they disable windows update from working with a release, yeah - then it truly is on its' own16:48
nicomachusjust had to install a snap package for the first time. do I need to run a separate update command now or will apt update && apt full-upgrade cover those packages too?16:50
daftykinsi think non-LTS releases should be more hidden on the site, to stop people falling into the traps from using them16:50
naccnicomachus: totally separate16:52
nacc(for now)16:52
nacci think 'software' may do both16:52
nicomachusnacc: that's awful16:52
naccnicomachus: but to be clear16:52
naccnicomachus: snaps autoupdate16:52
naccnicomachus: in the background, 4 times a day, iirc16:52
nicomachuswhoa what16:52
nacc(well, up to)16:52
nicomachusI don't want that16:52
naccyeah you do :)16:52
naccif you actually want apps16:52
nicomachusI really just want this Spotify client to not suck, but it looks like the snap package sucks just as much as the ppa16:52
naccnicomachus: no, it's significantly better16:53
naccsorry, i'm mad at this user and it's leaking here16:53
naccgive me 5 minutes and i'll explain it16:53
daftykinsthey seem a terrible idea to me (:16:53
nicomachusnp, I'm trying to get work down and getting sidetracked by Spotify's awful client not loading16:53
daftykinsmusic isn't work!16:54
nicomachusmusic in the background is crucial to me being productive. :D16:54
immunicomachus, use Windows then :)17:03
nicomachusnot a good enough reason17:03
* oerheks smashed an apple17:04
oerheksapple-pie :-D17:04
nicomachuswhat'd you do, pick it up wrong?17:04
nicomachusdrop it once onto soft carpet?17:04
naccnicomachus: ok, back17:05
naccnicomachus: a) the autoupdates can be stoopped, i believe it's a systemd unit17:05
naccnicomachus: b) the point of snaps is the vendors controll the versions supported and deployed17:05
naccnicomachus: the only way that works if the vendors control, well, the versions deployed17:06
nicomachusyea but I want control17:06
naccthen you don't want any applications17:06
naccyou want to build everythig yourself17:06
naccaka gentoo17:06
nicomachusI mean, I do17:06
naccyou are welcome to run gentoo :)17:06
nicomachusthe ability just isn't there17:06
naccnicomachus: what ability?17:06
nicomachusto build apps myself17:06
naccright, then you don't need snaps :)17:07
naccor maybe i misunderstood17:08
naccif you already build all the apps you carea bout yourself, then you don't need snaps17:08
immunicomachus, use Windows :)17:08
nicomachusimmu: make me17:09
oerheksno, use the door17:09
immulol oerheks :)17:09
naccnicomachus: to be clear, i'm telling you how snaps work and why they work the way they do, not what i think should hapene, etc.17:10
nicomachusnacc: I get it. I appreciate the info.17:10
nicomachusif it makes this stupid spotify client work better, then I'm all for it in that case.17:11
naccright, for pure end-user applications, i think the model is fairly sound17:12
naccesp. for something so opaque as spotify17:12
naccwhere you already had to add a ppa or third party repo17:12
nicomachusI still wish they would spend more time actually bug-killing and developing the client instead of finding new ways to install it, but whatever17:12
daftykinsisn't it tied to distributing repeat components that may be on the host install already, just to provide a consistent experience that lets the app work though?17:12
daftykinsso the host OS could get a security fix that takes longer for the snap dev to resolve and then update separately?17:13
naccnicomachus: the point being now they can!17:13
naccnicomachus: now they can do the spotify stuff alone17:13
naccnicomachus: no deps they don't control17:13
naccdaftykins: sorry, reading17:13
naccdaftykins: for confined snaps, what you descirbe is true; snaps are fully self-contained17:13
naccdaftykins: they can request reading $HOME, etc.17:14
naccdaftykins: tbh, it's the other way around17:14
naccthe spotify client can get a CVE or bug fix totally independent of the host17:14
daftykinshrmm but there's still the timing for each depending on who is doing it i suppose17:15
naccdaftykins: each which?17:15
naccdaftykins: for right now, assume that the snap developers can push to all the stores at the same time (it's sort of the required model); then there is no timing issue17:15
daftykinsi'm thinking 'each' as: 1) host OS dependencies that have had security bugs discovered vs 2) the same wrapped up in a snap17:16
naccdaftykins: the host OS is fully orthogonal (other than snapd itself)\17:17
nicomachusorthogonal... that's a word17:17
naccdaftykins: the big advantage is that you don't need the SRU cycle17:17
naccif you have a bug, you can fix it upstream, CI it, then build the snap automatically (recipes) and every user gets it within a day17:17
naccthat's a huge acceleration for app developers17:18
daftykinssorry, i'm talking about if you had a normal app as well as the snap side by side for comparison17:18
naccnormal lapp bugfixes -- they are glacial17:18
naccunless they are security, but even then, that requires getting a CVE, etc.17:18
nicomachusugh, look at this spotify icon compared to the others: https://i.imgur.com/vHuus1E.png17:23
nicomachusit rendered fine before I installed the snap version. And that's an icon pack, so it shouldn't matter17:24
naccnicomachus: i have no idea on the icon side17:25
naccnicomachus: they are new to me, still (that is)17:27
nacci'm not a snappy developer, i mean; i own one snap, but that's it17:27
oerheksbeng ... https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/22/16921108/integral-memory-512gb-microsd-card-largest-ever-memory-storage20:20

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