[00:22] <nacc> "< subcool> Brb, just found out my dad had a Heart attack.. brb"
[00:22] <nacc> geez
[00:22] <nacc> there'snot really any reason to be "right back" for that
[00:23] <Bashing-om> nacc: What a day !
[00:23] <nacc> everybody's got a case of the mondays!
[00:23] <nacc> Bashing-om: :)
[00:24] <Bashing-om> nacc: :) .. Maybe I got it real bad .
[00:47] <TJ-> nacc: well unless subcool is a para-medic not much he can do!
[00:48] <daftykins> i took it more as meaning going off to be told by a family member what happened
[00:48] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, and i guess i'd assume leave to maybe deal with it
[01:17] <TJ->  Docfixit is now known as Docbreakit
[01:26] <nacc> is it possible tatertots = Trump?
[01:26] <Bashing-om> nacc: rj: I vote that support would be enhanced if one tatertot were absent . I have dropped assistance when he intrudes .
[01:26] <TJ-> nacc: I've asked ops to have a quiet word
[01:26] <nacc> Bashing-om: yeah
[01:26] <nacc> i've definitely told them before to stop trolling/ giving terrible advice
[01:26] <nacc> TJ-: thanks
[01:27] <TJ-> I like how he asks for yes/no answers where we sometimes get unclear answers, but it goes over the top
[02:27] <hggdh> TJ-: what gives with tatertota
[02:27] <hggdh> ?
[02:30] <hggdh> ah. Backlog helps.
[02:30] <TJ-> hggdh: not sure, but he got a little stroppy after nacc asked him to tone down a bit
[02:31] <hggdh> yeah, just read the backlog
[02:31] <hggdh> in general, it is better to conduct this type of dialog somewhere else than #u
[02:32]  * hggdh is wearing an offical hat
[02:32] <hggdh> but I think I see it.
[02:33] <hggdh> anyway. Event is still going on.
[02:36] <hggdh> but, in general, being smarty when dealing with users is not a good idea
[02:37] <TJ-> I like his boolean questioning style but it goes too far at times
[02:37] <daftykins> is user an idiot? true/false
[02:37] <daftykins> :D
[02:38] <hggdh> indeed. And it ends up, usually, being aggressive
[02:39] <TJ-> my only peeze with his commands is he doesn't put spaces around the pipe | symbol!
[02:39] <TJ-> peeze? peeve
[02:39] <hggdh> ah, thank you, I thougth there was a new slang in English I had somehow missed :-)
[02:40] <TJ-> no, just my A.I. fingers that decide what to type
[02:40] <TJ-> it's predictive texting IRC style
[02:40] <hggdh> I know how it is, my fingers -- not me, just my fingers -- are usually dyslexic
[02:41] <hggdh> but, anyway, event is still on-going.
[02:41] <TJ-> yeah.. do you get it where you KNOW what you're going to type, you send the message to your fingers, you WATCH them type, then look at the screen and there's something totally different there?
[02:42] <hggdh> because they are in cohorts, your brain and your fingers. I accepted it, and now I (usually) do not care
[02:42]  * hggdh goes back to movie and wisky
[02:43] <daftykins> i've noticed folk not spacing around a pipe, very unpleasant to read
[05:23] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:05] <Ben64> -edge is still behind on kernel update : /
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> ah
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> due to meltdown Ben64 ?
[06:07] <Ben64> idk
[06:08] <Ben64> the normal hwe keeps progressing and edge is behind now
[06:08] <Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04
[06:08] <Ben64> oops
[06:08] <Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04 xenial
[06:08] <Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04-edge xenial
[06:08] <lotuspsychje> 25.31
[06:10] <Ben64> normal and edge should be the same until 18.04's kernel is final
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> i see
[06:10] <Ben64> then edge will be 18.04's, and normal will still be 4.13
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
[06:13] <EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> !info google-tasks-indicator
[07:11] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> all ok there?
[07:12] <lordievader> Doing good here
[07:12] <lordievader> Got a new phone yesterday since my nexus 5x died sunday
[07:13] <lordievader> How are you lotuspsychje ?
[07:13] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-says-ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-will-come-with-boot-speed-boost-519498.shtml
[07:13] <lotuspsychje> fine here lordievader
[07:16] <EriC^^> what's the plan today lotuspsychje ?
[07:19] <jink> WHAZZAAAAAAAAAH
[07:19] <jink> Good morning, fellow monkeys.
[07:20] <EriC^^> !banana
[07:50] <ducasse> morning, all
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> bbl work
[12:53] <pauljw> hi everyone
[12:54] <lordievader> 👋
[12:56] <pauljw> hey lordievader :)
[12:56] <lordievader> How are you doing, pauljw ?
[12:57] <pauljw> so far so good, only been awake for about an hour...
[12:57] <pauljw> you doing okay?
[12:59] <lordievader> Yeah, allright 😀
[13:00] <pauljw> :)
[13:19] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:23] <ducasse> hi BluesKaj - wb :)
[13:25] <pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
[13:25] <pauljw> EriC^^ :)
[13:28] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, pauljw, EriC^^
[13:38] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj pauljw :)
[13:38] <pauljw> :)
[16:23] <nacc> seriously, zesty is showing how many people should *not* have run non-LTS
[16:25] <daftykins> upgrade troubles?
[16:26] <nacc> people hitting the 404
[16:27] <daftykins> oh after the mirror being moved?
[16:28] <nacc> yeah
[16:28] <nacc> removed :)
[16:33] <immu> hi all
[16:34] <EriC^^> hey immu
[16:34] <immu> hey EriC^^ my friend how are you doing
[16:35] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[16:41] <daftykins> technically they go to old-releases.ubuntu.com so more moved eh ;)
[16:42] <daftykins> guys \o
[16:45] <daftykins> brb another kernel for xenial :P *sigh*
[16:47] <oerheks> does windows keep old-releases too ? i find it a bad idea, actually
[16:47] <nacc>  it's a terrible idea
[16:48] <nacc> it makes people think it's ok to not upgrade
[16:48] <nacc> but so be it
[16:48] <daftykins> eventually they disable windows update from working with a release, yeah - then it truly is on its' own
[16:50] <nicomachus> just had to install a snap package for the first time. do I need to run a separate update command now or will apt update && apt full-upgrade cover those packages too?
[16:50] <daftykins> i think non-LTS releases should be more hidden on the site, to stop people falling into the traps from using them
[16:52] <nacc> nicomachus: totally separate
[16:52] <nacc> (for now)
[16:52] <nacc> i think 'software' may do both
[16:52] <nicomachus> nacc: that's awful
[16:52] <nacc> nicomachus: but to be clear
[16:52] <nicomachus> ugh
[16:52] <nacc> nicomachus: snaps autoupdate
[16:52] <nacc> nicomachus: in the background, 4 times a day, iirc
[16:52] <nicomachus> whoa what
[16:52] <nacc> (well, up to)
[16:52] <nicomachus> I don't want that
[16:52] <nacc> yeah you do :)
[16:52] <nacc> if you actually want apps
[16:52] <nicomachus> I really just want this Spotify client to not suck, but it looks like the snap package sucks just as much as the ppa
[16:53] <nacc> nicomachus: no, it's significantly better
[16:53] <nacc> sorry, i'm mad at this user and it's leaking here
[16:53] <nacc> give me 5 minutes and i'll explain it
[16:53] <nicomachus> lol
[16:53] <daftykins> they seem a terrible idea to me (:
[16:53] <nicomachus> np, I'm trying to get work down and getting sidetracked by Spotify's awful client not loading
[16:53] <nicomachus> s/down/done/
[16:54] <daftykins> music isn't work!
[16:54] <nicomachus> music in the background is crucial to me being productive. :D
[17:03] <immu> nicomachus, use Windows then :)
[17:03] <daftykins> xD
[17:03] <nicomachus> not a good enough reason
[17:04]  * oerheks smashed an apple
[17:04] <oerheks> apple-pie :-D
[17:04] <nicomachus> what'd you do, pick it up wrong?
[17:04] <nicomachus> drop it once onto soft carpet?
[17:05] <nacc> nicomachus: ok, back
[17:05] <nacc> nicomachus: a) the autoupdates can be stoopped, i believe it's a systemd unit
[17:05] <nacc> nicomachus: b) the point of snaps is the vendors controll the versions supported and deployed
[17:06] <nacc> nicomachus: the only way that works if the vendors control, well, the versions deployed
[17:06] <nicomachus> yea but I want control
[17:06] <nacc> then you don't want any applications
[17:06] <nicomachus> lol
[17:06] <nacc> you want to build everythig yourself
[17:06] <nacc> aka gentoo
[17:06] <nicomachus> I mean, I do
[17:06] <nacc> you are welcome to run gentoo :)
[17:06] <nicomachus> the ability just isn't there
[17:06] <nacc> nicomachus: what ability?
[17:06] <nicomachus> to build apps myself
[17:07] <nacc> right, then you don't need snaps :)
[17:08] <nacc> or maybe i misunderstood
[17:08] <nacc> if you already build all the apps you carea bout yourself, then you don't need snaps
[17:08] <immu> nicomachus, use Windows :)
[17:09] <nicomachus> immu: make me
[17:09] <oerheks> no, use the door
[17:09] <immu> lol oerheks :)
[17:10] <nacc> nicomachus: to be clear, i'm telling you how snaps work and why they work the way they do, not what i think should hapene, etc.
[17:10] <nicomachus> nacc: I get it. I appreciate the info.
[17:11] <nicomachus> if it makes this stupid spotify client work better, then I'm all for it in that case.
[17:12] <nacc> right, for pure end-user applications, i think the model is fairly sound
[17:12] <nacc> esp. for something so opaque as spotify
[17:12] <nacc> where you already had to add a ppa or third party repo
[17:12] <nicomachus> I still wish they would spend more time actually bug-killing and developing the client instead of finding new ways to install it, but whatever
[17:12] <daftykins> isn't it tied to distributing repeat components that may be on the host install already, just to provide a consistent experience that lets the app work though?
[17:13] <daftykins> so the host OS could get a security fix that takes longer for the snap dev to resolve and then update separately?
[17:13] <nacc> nicomachus: the point being now they can!
[17:13] <nacc> nicomachus: now they can do the spotify stuff alone
[17:13] <nacc> nicomachus: no deps they don't control
[17:13] <nacc> daftykins: sorry, reading
[17:13] <daftykins> np
[17:13] <nacc> daftykins: for confined snaps, what you descirbe is true; snaps are fully self-contained
[17:14] <nacc> daftykins: they can request reading $HOME, etc.
[17:14] <nacc> daftykins: tbh, it's the other way around
[17:14] <nacc> the spotify client can get a CVE or bug fix totally independent of the host
[17:15] <daftykins> hrmm but there's still the timing for each depending on who is doing it i suppose
[17:15] <nacc> daftykins: each which?
[17:15] <nacc> daftykins: for right now, assume that the snap developers can push to all the stores at the same time (it's sort of the required model); then there is no timing issue
[17:16] <daftykins> i'm thinking 'each' as: 1) host OS dependencies that have had security bugs discovered vs 2) the same wrapped up in a snap
[17:17] <nacc> daftykins: the host OS is fully orthogonal (other than snapd itself)\
[17:17] <nicomachus> orthogonal... that's a word
[17:17] <nacc> daftykins: the big advantage is that you don't need the SRU cycle
[17:17] <nacc> if you have a bug, you can fix it upstream, CI it, then build the snap automatically (recipes) and every user gets it within a day
[17:18] <nacc> that's a huge acceleration for app developers
[17:18] <daftykins> sorry, i'm talking about if you had a normal app as well as the snap side by side for comparison
[17:18] <nacc> ah
[17:18] <nacc> yes
[17:18] <nacc> normal lapp bugfixes -- they are glacial
[17:18] <nacc> unless they are security, but even then, that requires getting a CVE, etc.
[17:23] <nicomachus> ugh, look at this spotify icon compared to the others: https://i.imgur.com/vHuus1E.png
[17:24] <nicomachus> it rendered fine before I installed the snap version. And that's an icon pack, so it shouldn't matter
[17:25] <nacc> nicomachus: i have no idea on the icon side
[17:25] <nicomachus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[17:27] <daftykins> xD
[17:27] <nacc> nicomachus: they are new to me, still (that is)
[17:27] <nacc> i'm not a snappy developer, i mean; i own one snap, but that's it
[20:20] <oerheks> beng ... https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/22/16921108/integral-memory-512gb-microsd-card-largest-ever-memory-storage