[06:19] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[06:29] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[06:29] <EriC^^> what's up?
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> hey just woke up mate
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> gonna heat up this weekend a bit here
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> 15 degrees
[06:30] <EriC^^> nice
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> what your upto EriC^^
[06:30] <EriC^^> still raining here
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> didnt know lebanon had rain?
[06:31] <EriC^^> not much wish it wasnt raining i want to test the car
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> got a new one?
[06:32] <EriC^^> no it was having some problems after 5000rpm so i tried cleaning the air mass flow sensor
[06:32] <EriC^^> yeah lebanon isn't like most of the countries in the middle east, it's very different
[06:32] <lotuspsychje> ah
[06:33] <EriC^^> we have green every where, mountains, sea, beautiful weather, best nightlife in the world, and it's a christian country
[06:34] <nacc> lotuspsychje: going to bed here, good luck with the trolls
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> ty for trying nacc
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> at least taterots got banned hehe
[06:35] <nacc> lotuspsychje: i don't doubt that spotify in mate does something wonky
[06:35] <nacc> their boutique is strange
[06:35] <nacc> and makes mate different than stock ubuntu
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> spotify is perfect on snap now right
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> so mate can install snaps too
[06:35] <nacc> yeah
[06:36] <nacc> the boutique is weird, though
[06:36] <nacc> its curated, iirc
[06:36] <nacc> and only does debs
[06:36] <nacc> but i'm not 100% on that
[06:36] <nacc> they auto-add PPAs
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> hmm
[06:36] <nacc> it's ... fugly for support
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> but snaps are jailed right
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> cant scramble up atp?
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> apt
[06:38] <nacc> they are unrelated, right
[06:38] <nacc> so my point, briefly, is in mate, teh boutique will add the spotify ppa
[06:38] <nacc> and install the deb
[06:38] <nacc> that is deprecated now (well, sort of)
[06:38] <nacc> and i dont' thinkt he boutique can install snaps
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: didnt know it was christian
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> nacc: didnt try mate for a long time, not sure on it
[06:41] <Insectorx_> Ok im here.   I promise i mean well
[06:41] <ferretsatsuma> I know you do
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx_: do you understand what trolling means?
[06:41] <EriC^^> yeah lebanese are also pretty openminded cause like 16 countries had invaded them, last it was the french that's why we have very good ties with france
[06:41] <ferretsatsuma> I’m not sure that’s what he’s doing.
[06:42] <Insectorx_> I dont wanna be a troll.  But id
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: nacc tryed to help him, but he was turning in circles
[06:42] <ferretsatsuma> He might be experiencing the feeling of dejection that a newcomer feels when he sees Linux officionados swannign around like jeunesse dorée.
[06:42] <EriC^^> we finally got our independence like 70 years ago or something
[06:42] <ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: I believe you, but his frustration comes from a deeper plae.
[06:42] <ferretsatsuma> place.
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> nice EriC^^
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: how do you know what happened, you just joined?
[06:43] <Insectorx_> I just want to know what to do to be a linux user
[06:43] <ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: I didnt say I knew what happened. I said...
[06:43] <ferretsatsuma> “He might be experiencing the feeling of dejection that a newcomer feels when he sees Linux officionados swannign around like jeunesse dorée.”
[06:43] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: There’s quite a learning curve, the documentation is suboptimal, and the users can be cliquey.
[06:43] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: if you dont know what happened, you cant possibly know how he feels
[06:43] <EriC^^> he's psychic, ok
[06:44] <lotuspsychje> this is a problem of argueing instead of listening
[06:44] <EriC^^> :p
[06:44] <Insectorx_> Seriously tho.  Is it a troll to not have a positive experience with Ubuntu and have questions about it?
[06:44] <ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: Would you like to see my CV?
[06:44] <lotuspsychje> no
[06:44] <Insectorx_> Im not pro windows or pro apple X
[06:44] <ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: Then stop bickering,.
[06:44] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: That’s the thing.
[06:44] <Insectorx_> Im legitimately looking for another os
[06:44] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Right… and Linux might suit you, but there’s quite a learning curve.
[06:45] <Insectorx_> Please bleieve me that im not trying to be a troll or dick
[06:45] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Your frustration is a natural response to the way that the Linux community can be.
[06:45] <Insectorx_> Thank you for understanding man
[06:45] <lotuspsychje> this place is ubuntu, not general linux help
[06:45] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: There’s a lot of groupthink going on. There’s also a kind of… I can’t think of the word. Being one of the group vs not being one of the group
[06:45] <Insectorx_> I wouldnt push if i didnt have the desire to learn
[06:46] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: n/p, I’ve been here since 1998.
[06:46] <Insectorx_> Youre cool.  Thanks for understanding
[06:46] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: n/p. All you needed was for someone to empathize.
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx_: the fact from this morning was: you asked a question then dont answer what the volunteer asked and keep asking you need 'linux' help
[06:47] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: You see, lots of IT folks are either on the autism spectrum or are dicks. The former is a medical condition; the latter is a result of bad parenting and/or being isolated from regular people.
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> !language | ferretsatsuma
[06:47] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: You see, lots of IT folks are either on the autism spectrum or are tumescent male phalli. The former is a medical condition; the latter is a result of bad parenting and/or being isolated from regular people.
[06:47] <ferretsatsuma> Better?
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: you cant generalize such statements
[06:48] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: So, when they talk to you, they treat you like an outsider who has to earn his/her way into the group. You’re treated with suspicion and a litlte bit of contempt because you haven’t earned your way into their little club.
[06:48] <Insectorx> Opps got disconnnected for a sec
[06:48] <ferretsatsuma> wb
[06:49] <ferretsatsuma> What was the last thing you heard me say? I’m not sure I’m being particularly interesting, but I’ll help you if I can.
[06:49] <Insectorx> Anyway.  I guess i just need to address each problem as it comes.
[06:49] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx: Yes… and remember, these people work in the I.T. equivalent of the DMV (except DMV employees are paid).
[06:49] <Insectorx> Lol
[06:50] <Insectorx> Good point
[06:50] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: for a guy saying your here from 98, you spreading alot of FUD
[06:51] <Insectorx> Also i respect people who put their time towards free open source projects.  But the "holier than thou" computer shit makes it hard
[06:51] <ferretsatsuma> Exactly
[06:51] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: language please
[06:51] <Insectorx> Sry
[06:51] <ferretsatsuma> np
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: so..after an hour of argueing...we still dont know what you want
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: what will be your new approach?
[06:52] <ferretsatsuma> I ran one & I’ve seen it from both sides: the snotty users who want free software and free tech support, the tin-pot dictators who think they’re special because they have a .org website and a package in Debian...
[06:53] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: same goes for you, whats your end prove out all of this?
[06:53] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: what is it you want to learn him?
[06:53] <Insectorx> I dont come on here often, but it seems like linux has a steep learning curve in general.  What is my best option for learning linux in a way that its usable?
[06:53] <ferretsatsuma> Insectorx: Your local LUG
[06:54] <Insectorx> ?
[06:54] <ferretsatsuma> When people are face-to-face, they’re less inclined to be jerks.
[06:54] <Insectorx> Lug?
[06:54] <lotuspsychje> volunteers are evil and users are poor?
[06:54] <ferretsatsuma> Linux User Group — LUG
[06:54] <ferretsatsuma> They’re like synagogues. Most cities have at least one. ;)
[06:54] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: this is not linux help, but ubuntu support
[06:54] <Insectorx> Lol really?
[06:54] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: if you want to learn linux try ##linux
[06:55] <Insectorx> Is that an irc channel??
[06:55] <ferretsatsuma> for your local LUG? Possibly
[06:55] <lotuspsychje> Insectorx: yes, your on irc :p
[06:55] <ferretsatsuma> Your best bet is to go to Google and look up “<your city> Linux User Group”
[06:55] <Insectorx> Cool.  I didnt know that existed
[06:55] <Insectorx> Thanks
[06:55] <ferretsatsuma> IRC is CMC (computer-mediated communciation), which is lean. By ‘lean’ I mean it has been stripped of nonverbal cues and nuances.
[06:56] <ferretsatsuma> That means people can come across as jerks when they aren’t trying to.
[06:56] <ferretsatsuma> It’s why emoticons were invented.
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: can you please not use profanity in ever sentence
[06:56] <ferretsatsuma> Conversely, face-to-face has the usual social norms: don’t insult people, don’t yell, don’t physically kick people out of the room, etc.
[06:58] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> how are you today
[06:59] <ferretsatsuma> Hi
[07:01] <lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje ferretsatsuma
[07:01] <lordievader> How are you guys?
[07:02] <lotuspsychje> fine here lordievader warming up
[07:02] <ferretsatsuma> Good! Thank you for asking. It’s a peaceful Thursday evening. Wife has the ‘flu, but she’s on the mend. How are you?
[07:03] <lordievader> Thursday evening? It's friday here already 😉
[07:03] <lordievader> Doing good here
[07:03] <ferretsatsuma> Wish I could figure out why ldconfig is segfaulting. It runs perfectly on one copy of the filsystem, on the other, it segfaults. The filesystems are identical. (I ran ‘diff’ twice.) It’s weird.
[07:04] <ferretsatsuma> I think it’s related to the auxiliary cache… but if I run ldconfig.real -i (ignore the aux cache) then it segfaults on both filesystems. I’ll try again w/ the original disk image (before apt-get upgrade) and see if there’s something wrong with libc.
[07:26] <ducasse> good morning, all
[07:36] <ferretsatsuma> morning
[07:36] <ferretsatsuma> That’s weird. … ldconfig.real -i segfaults if it’s run on a fresh copy of Ubuntu Core but not on Armbian.
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:03] <jink> No.
[12:05] <BluesKaj> ??
[12:05] <jink> Just no.
[12:06] <BluesKaj> to?
[12:07] <jink> To everyting.
[12:07] <jink> everything* even.
[12:08] <BluesKaj> uhoh, sounding negtive
[12:09] <jink> Really? :')
[12:10] <BluesKaj> nevermind
[16:09] <hggdh> (late) mornings to all
[16:10] <ducasse> good afternoon :)
[16:19] <daftykins> \o
[16:25] <ducasse> oerheks: i see s10gopal is back again, i doubt he's actually trying any of the suggestions he's been given
[16:26] <daftykins> :D
[16:28] <ducasse> \o daftykins :)
[16:32] <oerheks> ducasse, acpi issue perhaps, i am not sure that drainage is a bug, if the uefi stuff is keeping wireless up for updates
[16:33] <ducasse> could try the acpi_osi kernel parameter
[17:13] <oerheks> he does not want to read about bug reporting
[17:17] <ducasse> whenever he is given a suggestion, he responds "doesn't work" - with no time to have tested it
[17:37] <oerheks> brb
[18:47] <nicomachus> weird. Got a pop-up GUI window saying a new update or release or something was ready but I closed it before I looked real close. apt update && apt full-upgrade found nothing. do-release-upgrade didn't even find anything. weird stuff.
[18:47] <oerheks> oi, maybe a push for a security update?
[18:48] <oerheks> kernel perhaps
[18:48] <nicomachus> I had a kernel upgrade yesterday but not today
[18:49] <nicomachus> I think I'm up to -105 on the 4.4 kernel now
[18:49] <nicomachus> oh wow. -112
[18:49] <daftykins> yeah 112 here
[18:50] <nicomachus> just removed -104
[18:51] <nicomachus> have -109 and -112 in /boot. why the number hopping?
[18:52] <daftykins> work on it, something doesn't work, build again
[18:52] <oerheks> secret lucky lotto numbers
[18:52] <nicomachus> yea I guess so. I've never paid super close attention to the versioning
[19:19] <hggdh> nicomachus: the missing number are kernels that were built, but not released
[20:47] <nicomachus> TJ-: gopal has to be trolling or just completely stupid.
[20:47] <TJ-> No, he's just very lost
[20:47] <nicomachus> he's been talking about his battery for at least a week now under a couple different nicks.
[20:48] <nicomachus> says he's tried every solution that anyone suggests, and refuses to believe that maybe the batteries just bad.
[20:48] <daftykins> oh dear a lying nick hopper
[20:48] <TJ-> Yes, I know, I've been helping since he first arrived
[20:48] <TJ-> Nothing wrong with the battery; there's a bug in the InSyde H20 firmware on these HP laptops
[20:49] <nicomachus> you had him blacklist the radeon driver to disable his AMD gpu, and I guess he never did because I tried to get him to blacklist it again yesterday and he says it still "doesn't work". idk.
[20:49] <oerheks> if he has no clue about his uefi/bios, maybe a bios updae would stop draining battery...
[20:49] <TJ-> No, we reinstalled fresh since I had him /test/ blacklist radeon - but I also had him /remove/ the blacklist once it was clear it didn't help
[20:50] <nacc> TJ-: what is "InSyde H20"?
[20:50] <nacc> sounds ... stupid :)
[20:50] <TJ-> I thought it was preventing the amdgpu driver from binding to the AMD GPU but it turns out that wasn't the reason; both modules need a kernel command-line parameter passing
[20:50] <daftykins> intel EFI iirc
[20:50] <TJ-> nacc: A brand of firmware
[20:50] <daftykins> pretty common name and logo you'll see on systems over the years
[20:50] <nacc> interesting
[20:50] <nacc> TJ-: and it's known buggy?
[20:52] <TJ-> nacc: oh yes, it's the one caused the broken Acer's/Lenovo's due to the Intel PLATFORM_SPI driver in 17.10
[20:52] <nacc> TJ-: oh lovelly
[20:52] <TJ-> nacc: and was implicated in the original Linux-bricks-my-EFI-boot-menu issues a few years ago where the NVRAM variables weren't getting deleted
[20:52] <nacc> right
[20:52] <nacc> TJ-: is there a bug filed to maybe try and detect such a case and emit a warning?
[20:54] <TJ-> nicomachus: this is the 'fix' for having the amdgpu driver take the GPU:
[20:54] <TJ-> "sudo sed -i 's/\(GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="\)/\1amdgpu.si_support=1 radeon.si_support=0 /' /etc/default/grub "
[20:54] <nacc> TJ-: that was from that freedesktop bug?
[20:54] <TJ-> the radeon.si_support=0 stops it from binding, and the amdgpu.si_support=1 allows it to bind
[20:55] <TJ-> nacc: which case are you talking about?
[20:55] <nacc> TJ-: the sed you just quoted; istr it was from an upstream bug someone filed?
[20:55] <nacc> TJ-: just trying to check my recollection, and know when to cite it
[20:56] <TJ-> I think it's still user-configured because driver support isn't complete for all the chipsets
[20:56] <nacc> ah
[20:56] <TJ-> I can't remember where I find it now
[20:58] <TJ-> We seem to have a handful of LP bugs related to amdgpu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/?field.searchtext=amdgpu
[21:00] <TJ-> nacc: it wouldn't surprise me if gopal's HP's battery drain is due to the TPM - I noticed in the dmesg that device doesn't configure correctly
[21:00] <nacc> ah that would make some sense
[21:01] <nacc> even when off, though?
[21:01] <TJ-> but it's never off is it? that's the entire point with battery-powered devices, it's always on, just (suppposed to be) supplying very little current when 'off'
[21:02] <nacc> the TPM, yeah, i suppose that's possiblly true
[21:02] <nacc> i'm not sure, tbh
[21:02] <nacc> some BIOS let youd siable the TPM as well
[21:02] <TJ-> Even on desktops, you've got the same thing if you don't turn off at the wall. The PSU is providing 5V standby-by which keeps the PCH/southbridge powered so it can turn the system back on when the press-to-make power button is pressed
[21:04] <TJ-> All the talk about the Intel MEI/AMT operating whilst the system is 'turned off' - techies should know better; it's on 5VSB - turn off at the wall the thing won't magically exfiltrate data!
[21:04] <daftykins> :D
[21:05] <TJ-> This is what happens when software devs know nothing about hardware and electronics!
[22:05] <Bashing-om> It's Friday ! ( most places ) - Welcome to weekend support :)
[22:06] <daftykins> :D welcome back
[22:06] <Bashing-om> Hey daftykins :) .. Good day in your neighborhood ?
[22:07] <daftykins> not too bad at all thanks, i had the final bit of roof work done, some chimney pointing, the scaffold is likely to go very soon - and i had a curry tonight \o/ so all ace
[22:07] <daftykins> all well in your neck of the woods also?
[22:13] <TJ-> Just finished the initial disassembly/read of gopal's HP ACPI DSDT/SSDT - 9 external references no resolved (== bugging firmware)
[22:14] <daftykins> oof
[22:46] <TJ-> Grrr; In the DSDT there are several device-specific-methods triggered by specific UUIDs which I bet only the Windows drivers know about