[07:26] <didrocks> good morning
[07:28] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:29] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:32] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:32] <oSoMoN> and happy Monday!
[07:37] <duflu> Hello oSoMoN
[07:38] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:39] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, salut didrocks
[08:27] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:44] <willcooke> o/
[08:46] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:46] <duflu> willcooke    \o
[08:46] <seb128> hey willcooke duflu
[08:46] <seb128> had a good w.e?
[08:47] <seb128> duflu, how was australian day?
[08:47] <duflu> seb128, for most people good. But around here, more hard work than fun
[08:47] <seb128> :/
[08:48] <willcooke> didrocks, Trying to log in to a gnome session in an 18.04 vm, but I dont have the little cog to change session, what did I do wrong?
[08:50] <didrocks> willcooke: you only have one session installed, correct, or did you install gnome-session?
[08:50] <didrocks> have*
[08:51] <willcooke> didrocks, I installed gnome-session
[08:51] <willcooke> Want to make a point on a bugzilla bug :)
[08:51] <didrocks> willcooke: rebooted in between, I guess?
[08:51] <seb128> willcooke, did you restart gdm after installing gnome-session?
[08:51] <willcooke> ohhhhhhhh
[08:52] <willcooke> man I suk
[08:52] <seb128> no, gdm sucks :p
[08:52] <didrocks> yeah, gdm doesn't pick up new session files dynamically
[08:52] <seb128> you shouldn't have to restart
[08:52] <seb128> but yeah, there we are...
[08:52] <willcooke> on the plus side, it didnt occur to me to reboot because, on the whole, these things just work
[08:53] <willcooke> silver cloud etc
[08:53] <willcooke> there we go, gnome session
[08:53] <willcooke> and gnome font
[08:53] <willcooke> aaaaand a big failure in my plan, because my VM doesnt have a wifi nic
[08:53] <willcooke> ok, going to log out and try it on this one
[08:56] <didrocks> speaking of which…
[08:56] <didrocks> we'll need to investigate to force gdm on X, while having the Wayland session proposed
[08:56] <didrocks> as when you disable wayland on gdm, it blacklists the wayland user sessions
[08:56] <didrocks> we'll probably need a patch for this
[08:56] <seb128> we could keep gdm on wayland?
[08:57] <seb128> we don't go away from wayland for reasons that impact the greeter
[08:57] <didrocks> are we sure it's that safe/consistent?
[08:57] <didrocks> yeah, that's true enough
[08:57] <didrocks> we could keep it likt his
[08:57] <didrocks> forget about it thus ;)
[08:57] <seb128> not sure no, I did't think about it much
[08:58] <seb128> but you are right, it puts a stack different from our default/most supported one in the boot path
[08:58] <seb128> at the same time I don't think wayland/gdm creates us issues so it wouldn't be crazy to keep it
[08:58] <didrocks> yeah, we'll need to think about it, the best answer is maybe "let's no do anything"
[08:58] <didrocks> we juste need to be cogniscent about this
[08:58] <seb128> right
[08:58] <seb128> do you want to add a trello card for that?
[08:58] <didrocks> not*
[08:59] <didrocks> yeah, just for bookkeeping
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: https://trello.com/c/zKYtpgyZ/194-take-a-decision-if-we-keep-gdm-running-under-wayland
[09:00] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:03] <Laney> heyyyyyyyyyyy
[09:03] <seb128> good morning Laney, happy fosdem week!
[09:03] <seb128> how are you?
[09:03] <didrocks> good morning Laney!
[09:04] <Laney> hey seb128 didrocks
[09:05] <Laney> happy fosdem week to you too!
[09:05] <xnox> morning =)
[09:05] <Laney> i'm alright thanks, you?
[09:05] <Laney> hey xnox
[09:05] <Laney> wb(?)
[09:05] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:05] <duflu> Hello Laney, xnox, world
[09:07] <xnox> Laney, https://twitter.com/tdlk/status/957902966996029441 =) look what I found in Tokyo about #FOSDEM
[09:08] <Laney> !!!
[09:09] <Laney> it is actually the same delerium
[09:09] <Laney> funny
[09:09] <Laney> hey duflu, you good?
[09:09] <Laney> have a nice .au day?
[09:10] <duflu> Laney, yeah it was OK :)
[09:11] <seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks :)
[09:11] <seb128> a bit tired but that is normal state nowadays
[09:11] <Laney> give it 10 years
[09:12] <didrocks> xnox: nice, in which area?
[09:12] <xnox> didrocks, Ginza I believe, not far from Kabukiza
[09:16] <didrocks> interesting, I wouldn't have said Ginza would be the place where you find this kind of pub :)
[09:23] <xnox> didrocks, for me it was the first time in Japan, so everything was confusing and exciting =)
[09:26] <didrocks> heh ;)
[09:32] <willcooke> right, really am logging in to the other session now, brb
[10:07] <andyrock> good morning
[10:07] <willcooke> hi andyrock
[10:13] <didrocks> ok, my best bet now at gdm not starting is due to:
[10:14] <didrocks> auth could not identify password for [gdm]
[10:14] <didrocks> I do have though: /etc/pam.d/gdm-autologin
[10:14] <didrocks> with authoptionalpam_gdm.so
[10:14] <didrocks> and:
[10:15] <didrocks> $ ls -l /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_gdm.so
[10:15] <didrocks> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6120 oct.  11 18:57 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_gdm.so
[10:16] <seb128> did anything got upgraded in that stack?
[10:17] <didrocks> didn't find anything pam-related: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26482861/
[10:21] <didrocks> so, I did in addition to this dist-upgrade purge a lot of packages on Friday: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26482869/
[10:21] <didrocks> I see on this long-lived install that it did purge a gdm package
[10:21] <didrocks> maybe there was a conffile in common between gdm3 and gdm and it did purge that one?
[10:24]  * didrocks tries to purge and reinstall gdm3
[10:24] <didrocks> bbiab
[10:25] <GunnarHj> Good morning, Laney! After having talked with Debian, we came up with this as regards the libpinyin upload stuck in -proposed:
[10:25] <GunnarHj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-libpinyin/+bug/1735362/comments/22
[10:25] <GunnarHj> Can you please help to get it in?
[10:26] <didrocks> ok, it works
[10:26] <didrocks> so, my theory is that purging very old packages, like gdm, had a conffiles in common with gdm3, and so removed it
[10:27] <didrocks> nothing impact real artful users, hopefully ;)
[10:33] <Laney> hi GunnarHj
[10:33] <Laney> ok, we can probably skip those tests
[10:34] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great!
[10:35] <GunnarHj> Laney: Of course, it means that libzhuyin needs to be removed fast, because once libpinyin is in, I suppose it's no longer possible to rebuild libzhuyin.
[10:36] <Laney> done
[10:36] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks! :)
[10:36] <Laney> If someone tries to upload libzhuyin source they'll get some kind of error or other
[10:36] <Laney> so yeah, do follow up on it being removed
[10:36] <GunnarHj> Will do.
[10:39] <Laney> brb
[11:07] <oSoMoN> can someone with powerz re-run the failed autopkgtest for glm? http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/update_excuses.html#glm
[11:13] <didrocks> oSoMoN: done
[11:15] <oSoMoN> thanks didrocks !
[11:15] <didrocks> yw ;)
[11:36] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Hi Łukasz, you should set "Language pack base" at this page:
[11:36] <GunnarHj> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+language-packs
[11:36] <GunnarHj> so LP starts exporting delta tarballs.
[11:43] <sil2100> GunnarHj: oh, I didn't know I can do it, I poked Colin and William on Friday but maybe they missed the ping
[11:44] <sil2100> GunnarHj: is it ok now?
[11:44] <sil2100> (yeah, looks like I had the power to do that in the end)
[11:45] <GunnarHj> sil2100: Yes, looks good to me.
[11:47] <jbicha> didrocks: Debian Stretch and Ubuntu GNOME for a few releases had gdm use Wayland by default where available but the default session was stil the GNOME on Xorg
[11:48] <jbicha> good morning
[11:49] <didrocks> ack
[11:51] <GunnarHj> sil2100: That page is where you later (soon before the release) can check "Request a full language pack export". No need to ping anyone about that either. (I.e. as long as it works - that's not always the case.)
[11:51] <sil2100> bbl!
[11:51]  * sil2100 drives home
[11:52] <didrocks> see you sil2100 :)
[12:00] <didrocks> Trevinho: hey! do you mind setting milestone if you can on my G-S MR?
[12:01] <didrocks> and label feature as well?
[12:12] <GunnarHj> Hi didrocks! Can you please help with bug #1745777? It's a bit more urgent than usually is the case with package cleaning, since one of the build dependencies for libzhuyin is no longer present in bionic.
[12:17] <didrocks> GunnarHj: hey, I'm unsure to understand the "there is a need to remove them in bionic before they have been removed from sid"?
[12:17] <didrocks> if I remove them manually, next sync from debian may bring them back
[12:17] <didrocks> (as long as they are not removed from sid)
[12:17] <GunnarHj> didrocks: We have synced from experimental.
[12:18] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Isn't is possible to block them from reappearing?
[12:18] <didrocks> GunnarHj: it's name blacklisting, but what does this give? Can't we just wait for them to be removed from sid and then autosync will remove them?
[12:19] <GunnarHj> didrocks: It depends on how fast things move forward on the Debian side. Once the whole archive is rebuilt, libzhuyin will fail.
[12:20] <didrocks> GunnarHj: and I think that's fine, if we see that it's still here near release, we can remove it
[12:20] <didrocks> I just don't think there is a need and remove them before Debian does
[12:20] <jbicha> autosync is separate from autoremove. I have a whole list of packages removed from Debian unstable I'm waiting to see removed from bionic
[12:21] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Ok, I have no problem with that. You know the implications better than me.
[12:21] <didrocks> jbicha: yeah, autoremove is run manually from time to time AFAIK
[12:21] <didrocks> GunnarHj: let's plan on that. However, please reping me if we are near release and it's still in the repo
[12:22] <Laney> It's because the binaries have been taken over by libpinyin now
[12:22] <Laney> in bionic
[12:22] <jbicha> didrocks: since we're talking AA stuff, could you review gnome-tweaks (renamed from -tweak-tool) in bionic NEW
[12:22] <didrocks> jbicha: too much time devoted to AA this week… but adding it to my list :p
[12:22] <GunnarHj> didrocks: I'll try to remember that...
[12:22] <jbicha> I expect one more rename: gnome-themes-standard → gnome-themes-extra whenever upstream releases a tarball
[12:23] <jbicha> didrocks: that's fine. It's not urgent and maybe someone else will get to it first :)
[12:23] <didrocks> jbicha: we'll see who gets to it first :)
[12:23] <jbicha> (although waiting for someone else to do it doesn't work out as often as one would hope … )
[12:30] <jbicha> I'm doing this now since it makes sense: LP: #1726395
[12:31] <didrocks> sure
[12:31] <Trevinho> didrocks: ok, I'm out this week (and in France, close to you), but I can do it after the slopes :-)
[12:31] <GunnarHj> Hi doko, can you please revisit bug #1738582. It ought to be ready to approve by now, and with that let us proceed with adding the packages to the live seed.
[12:31] <didrocks> Trevinho: oh sure! Profites bien :)
[12:31] <Trevinho> Oui!
[12:32] <Trevinho> C'est fabtafique
[12:32] <Trevinho> Fantastique
[12:32] <Trevinho> (manger a part :-D)
[12:32] <didrocks> pffff ;)
[12:33] <jbicha> btw, the patch for #737362 was applied upstream briefly and then reverted. Design issues and worries about users breaking their systems by turning it off
[12:33] <jbicha> GNOME #737362
[12:46] <seb128> typical GNOME argument :/
[12:53] <jbicha> speaking of GNOME … https://git.gnome.org/browse/gsettings-desktop-schemas/commit/?id=77ff1d9
[12:54] <jbicha> ggsettings set org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.touchpad 'fingers'
[12:59] <jbicha> oh Tweaks already has a setting for it in Keyboard & Mouse > Touchpad > Click Method
[14:09] <seb128> jbicha, I'm not sure to understand the impact of that touchpad change
[14:10] <seb128> jbicha, if that doesn't impact edge scrolling then seems fine to me
[14:11] <jbicha> I am working on redesigning that option in Tweaks to make it a bit more clear, the first screenshot is the current UI, the next 2 are my proposal
[14:11] <jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tweaks/issues/117
[14:11] <jbicha> the click-method options aren't supposed to affect scrolling AIUI
[14:20] <didrocks> I did test it on Bastien's request FTWI before he enabled by default. No difference on my one-touch touchpad
[14:21] <seb128> didrocks, do you understand what the difference is supposed to be?
[14:23] <didrocks> seb128: from what he told, it's mostly a MacOs feature for multi-touch touchpads, it's a no-op in other cases
[14:23] <didrocks> he referenced https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757255 at the time
[14:24] <seb128> didrocks, right, I read that, I still not understand what it changes really
[14:24] <seb128> I guess it doesn't matter much
[14:24] <seb128> we will see if we get users having issues
[14:24] <didrocks> seb128: I think it's something Mac users understand apparently ;)
[14:25] <didrocks> I think it's the "right click on multiple fingers"
[14:25] <seb128> k
[14:25] <didrocks> but I might be wrong
[14:25] <didrocks> seb128: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207700
[14:26] <jbicha> it's going to surprise people with newer laptops that don't have separate touchpad "mouse" buttons
[14:26] <didrocks> first case
[14:27] <kenvandine> jbicha, thx for the gedit ack :)
[14:29] <jbicha> kenvandine: I'm doing a gedit tarball release soon because someone needs to and there were fixes piling up in git master
[14:29] <jbicha> I don't intend to be the gedit maintainer though, so we'll see how that works :|
[14:29] <kenvandine> jbicha, great
[14:29] <kenvandine> jbicha, you touch it... you own it :)
[14:29] <jbicha> I hope not!
[14:30] <kenvandine> i'd kind of like to do some work on gedit actually
[14:30] <kenvandine> but i seem to have no free time :/
[14:32] <seb128> jbicha, when you say it's controversial, was there more discussions on the topic or just some maintainers pushing back because they consider flatpak the GNOME supported solution?
[14:32] <seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you?
[14:34] <jbicha> seb128: for instance mcatanzaro thinks GNOME already has one classic build system (meson ideally) and one new build system (flatpak)
[14:34] <jbicha> so he isn't interested in adding snap metadata for packages he maintains
[14:34] <seb128> jbicha, right, so the later one
[14:34] <jbicha> yes
[14:34] <seb128> k, I was checking if there were more discussions I didn't notice
[14:34] <seb128> that I knew about
[14:34] <seb128> thx
[14:34] <jbicha> Ken has been the one proposing these patches so he can give you more details if needed :)
[14:34] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:36] <kenvandine> seb128, mcatanzaro suggested i email the desktop-devel list to get a discussion going on snap support
[14:36] <seb128> kenvandine, I would refrain from doing that
[14:36] <jbicha> I think mcatanzaro might have proposed having a project-wide position against adding the snap metadata but mcatanzaro didn't really follow up on that
[14:36] <kenvandine> seb128, however, i've avoided that for now... since i pretty much know how it'll go
[14:36] <seb128> I can't see any useful outcome
[14:36] <kenvandine> right
[14:36] <kenvandine> so i'm ignoring the patches i've sent him and hoping to get the rest in ;)
[14:37] <kenvandine> maybe eventually i can say to him "your projects are the only ones without snap packaging"
[14:37] <jbicha> I think it would help if we clone jamesh so that Builder would natively support building Snaps ;)
[14:38] <kenvandine> jbicha, he has a branch that works :)
[14:38] <kenvandine> but needs refactoring to get it upstream
[14:38] <seb128> jbicha, I think he would argue against accepting the snap support in builder :p
[14:38] <jbicha> csoriano for instance has said that he likes the flatpak option as an easy way for contributors to build and test nautilus from git master
[14:40] <jbicha> upstream Builder (hergertme) seems receptive to patches to support all sorts of build systems
[14:40] <kenvandine> yeah, he didn't reject it
[14:41] <seb128> right, I'm just saying that the guy who doesn't want the snapcraft.yaml files added upstream and would want to the project to nack them would probably also argue that snap has no point being into builder
[16:23] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Do you have time to help out with bug #1738582?
[16:27] <didrocks> GunnarHj: not today
[16:27] <didrocks> could before EOW
[16:27]  * didrocks has a lot of MIR to deal with recently…
[16:28] <didrocks> GunnarHj: it seems doko started the review
[16:28] <didrocks> GunnarHj: maybe ask him? Don't want to step over
[16:28] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Yes. I pinged doko too, but he seems not to be around. (What's EOW?)
[16:28] <didrocks> GunnarHj: end of week
[16:29] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Thanks. :)
[16:29] <didrocks> GunnarHj: well, try again later and keep me posted :)
[16:30] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Will do.
[16:58] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, chromium-browser 64.0.3282.119 is ready for publication in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages (already in bionic-proposed)
[17:58] <willcooke> night all, going to go to the office tomorrow morning
[17:59] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Thanks for pushing that gnome-user-docs patch. Do you think I should apply for commit rights? If I understand it correctly, such rights apply to the whole git.gnome.org, not only specific packages.
[18:00] <jbicha> GunnarHj: have you contributed to other modules besides gnome-user-docs?
[18:00] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yes, but just a few small things.
[18:01] <jbicha> I don't know what the threshold for commit number is
[18:02] <jbicha> I think they want you to have someone vouch for you so maybe ask in #docs on irc.gnome.org what you need to do to apply for git commit rights
[18:03] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Maybe. Or, considering that they are planning to move the thing to another place, maybe I'd better wait til then.
[18:03] <jbicha> https://wiki.gnome.org/AccountsTeam/NewAccounts
[18:04] <jbicha> I believe the account is the same. commit rights gets you commit access at git.gnome.org and gitlab.gnome.org
[18:04] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Right, I have seen that page.
[18:11] <jbicha> I don't work on docs these days, I just happened to see your patch when I filed a wishlist bug there
[18:12] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yeah, I know. So I was lucky. :)
[18:15] <jbicha> it'll probably be a little different with gitlab, but with bugzilla, a lot of maintainers mark patches as accepted_commit_now which means "go ahead and push"
[18:16] <jbicha> GNOME gives project-wide commits rights fairly easily so if you can't push, it's good to mention that on the bug
[18:18] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yes, if I understand it correctly, gitlab will allow for merge proposals like in bazaar. But yes, mentioning the absence of push right on the bugs is probably a good idea.
[21:17] <willcooke> night all
[21:17] <willcooke> again
[21:57] <jamesh> kenvandine: with a bit of hacking, I got one of your GNOME snaps to display translated
[21:58] <jamesh> it wasn't particularly pretty
[21:58] <kenvandine> woot
[21:58] <kenvandine> jamesh, so what's the issue?
[21:58] <jamesh> kenvandine: the core snap only provides compiled locale data for C.utf-8
[21:59] <jamesh> so setlocale(LC_ALL, "") fails.  Then gettext uses the libc locale to pick which translations to use
[21:59] <jamesh> which still thinks it is the C locale
[22:00] <jamesh> I got things to work by compiling a locale for French, putting it somewhere the snap could read, and setting LOCPATH
[22:01] <kenvandine> that's ugly
[22:01] <jamesh> we could try staging locales-all somewhere (app or gnome platform snap), and make sure they're found that way
[22:02] <jamesh> however, locales-all is 3.4 MB compressed, 130 MB uncompressed
[22:04] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, can the LO i386 autopkgtest failure be ignored to allow it to migrate? http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/update_excuses.html#libreoffice
[22:05] <oSoMoN> we've done that for the last few uploads
[22:05] <oSoMoN> the autopkgtests are failing on i386 because of that infamous java crash
[22:06] <oSoMoN> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108619
[22:11] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, we should
[22:11] <kenvandine> we need to poke someone about that
[22:13] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, who do we need to poke?
[22:14] <kenvandine> jbicha, do you know?
[22:15] <Laney> #ubuntu-release
[22:15] <Laney> I'd do it but I'm not really here
[22:15] <Laney> also I'd ask what the status of the fix is :-)
[22:17] <oSoMoN> ok, I'll do that tomorrow as it's getting late and I have to get some rest
[22:18] <oSoMoN> have a good night all
[22:19] <kenvandine> Laney, you aren't here!