[13:19] <clivejo> acheronuk: ping
[13:19] <acheronuk> clivejo: pong
[13:20] <clivejo> I used to keep in contact with JR regarding the Paypal donation button on the website
[13:20] <clivejo> would you take this on?
[13:21] <clivejo> and make sure this is up to date - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y0g-lWr8QSom6ZbfjgFt0pYRb-930FtO_egC_UhP9WQ/edit#gid=0
[13:22] <clivejo> The last Paypal withdrawal was 17/2/2016 and there is quite a sizable sum in there
[13:28] <clivejo> He will send you a screen shot of Paypal account
[13:33] <acheronuk> clivejo: maybe. can't try to make sense of it today.
[13:38] <acheronuk> maybe deal with this when he is back from canoeing the nile, or whatever
[13:40] <clivejo> yeah for some reason submitting my self assessment made me think about it
[13:55] <clivejo> anyways I'll leave you with it, cheerio
 Quite a bit in there for Kubuntu.
 @ahoneybun, I would like to understand how that figure was arrived at. Not that I don't trust it, but you know what I mean.
 Yea I get you. We should find some use for some funds.
 Maybe the devs need a machine to run local builds?
 As Launchpad is still ****ed waiting for spectre microcode fixes? LOL
 I know we need to handle the server costs somehow once Linode is over
 @ahoneybun, I could see it being used in the case where Ubuntu doesn't approve funding requests to go to conferences
 well we can't do what we do without servers
 I think that should be top usecase for the funds.
 Right
 But we already have those...
 @ahoneybun, define local builds?
 @tsimonq2, but Linode is not renewing next year.
 @acheronuk, image a machine that you can build all of the packages on
 I can build them all here. Just would take for *ever*
 so you mean a mini build farm or do builder setup?
[16:33] <yofel> would be something worth thinking about - we just need to decide how it should look like: CI exclusive like neon, or using a dediated scheduler (which would need some kind of API to jenkins) that allowes manual uploads
 at the moment with launchpad, I am about ready to just give up on 18.04. it's just useless, and canonical don't seem to be able to find their backsides with their hands to fix the capacity problems
[16:34] <yofel> As for server costs, I would delete linode once it runs out, there are more cost efficient options - either dedicated servers or cheaper cloud providers like scaleway
 only way I got stuff done lately is to build in the ninja ppa to get buiold priority, then copy to a normal ppa to QA
 yeah. linode is nice, but seems paying over the odds if we have to pay the bill. like paying for a premium brand, when actually the value one is 95% as good
[16:45] <yofel> to be honest, if anything the build farm has regressed to ~2010 levels. Back then - when the PPA builders were seperate from the archive ones - build queues of 2 days were not really uncommon
[16:45] <yofel> the private PPA was the only reason we got anything done
[16:46] <yofel> as for linode: this is how much we're actually using it: https://kyofel.de/owncloud/index.php/s/r90ABiDbFJgJ9Wp
[16:46] <yofel> i.e. 99.15% idle
[16:46] <yofel> when the CI is running properly it's better, but still around 95%
 we could use it more, but I either dont know how, or am reluctant to spend time setting things up on a service we know we are going to lose
 I'm up for going to a different hosting
 but it's something we should look at before the Linode runs out not when it does.
 So I have an interesting offer
 Altispeed, my employer, hosts some Lubuntu infrastructure at the moment
 He's asked me to let him know if I need any more servers for anything else because apparently it's been hugely successful for marketing
 He's willing to offer a server of any size for the Kubuntu team with no expiration date on how long we can have it given that we put Altispeed's name somewhere on the site (maybe the footer)
 ("he" being @Kernellinux)
 @ahoneybun @acheronuk Interested?
 I don't see a problem we do it for Linode now.
 Alright.
[21:23] <acheronuk> [16:57] <acheronuk> any eta on getting capacity back on the build farm. I am guessing not, but ask on the off chance
[21:23] <acheronuk> [17:00] * mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) has joined
[21:23] <acheronuk> [17:14] <cjwatson> The ball remains in the CPU vendors' courts.
[21:24] <acheronuk> at this point I am serious tempted to just go over the road and just do Neon fixes until May
[21:29] <valorie> yikes
[21:30] <valorie> is it very difficult to get our linode to do what we now rely on the builders to do?
[21:31] <valorie> or just skip directly to scaleway, or take Altispeed up on their offer?
[21:33] <valorie> I guess that question is both for yofel and acheronuk
[21:33] <valorie> and maybe tsimonq2
[21:33] <valorie> tsimonq2: could you get a firm offer from your boss and send it to the list?
[21:41] <tsimonq2> valorie: It's the other way around I think; Altispeed will provide whatever Kubuntu needs/
[21:42] <valorie> ok, but getting that offer to the list would be good
[21:43] <valorie> because I assume a short discussion would get us to a "we need this, this and this, as soon as possible"
[21:43] <tsimonq2> Alright.
[21:43] <valorie> so we can start setting stuff up
[21:43] <valorie> I know that neon does a lot of stuff with droplets
[21:44] <tsimonq2> valorie: For what it's worth, Launchpad's builders can't be replaced by our own infra. Maybe for KCI we could make it work, but ultimately we need it for archive stuff.
[21:44] <valorie> but the tooling to do all that seems very involved
[21:44] <valorie> they can't?
[21:44] <tsimonq2> No.
[21:44] <valorie> splain why
[21:45] <valorie> I mean I understand they they need to build things on their own servers
[21:45] <tsimonq2> Right
[21:45] <tsimonq2> That's it, for the archive.
[21:45] <valorie> but we could certainly build ourselves first and resolve problems, right?
[21:45] <valorie> which is the CI
[21:45] <valorie> build problems and autotest issues
[21:46] <tsimonq2> We could set up our own infra solely for KCI but I'm unsure the time spent is worth the gain.
[21:46] <valorie> where do we run KCI now?
[21:47] <tsimonq2> On Blue Systems' infra iirc.
[21:47] <valorie> ah
[21:47] <valorie> what do we do on linode now?
[21:47] <tsimonq2> iirc just workspaces for developers
[21:49] <valorie> I see
[21:49] <valorie> so, what Santa_ is doing on his uni server is more what I was thinking of, I guess?
[21:50] <valorie> building and doing the auto-tests
[21:50] <tsimonq2> Yeah, we could do that.
[21:50] <acheronuk> santa doesn't seem to be doing anything now
[21:51] <valorie> it just seems to me that if we could feed our stuff *somewhere* and move it along
[21:51] <valorie> instead of waitingwaitingwaiting
[21:51] <valorie> this wouldn't be so frustrating
[21:51] <acheronuk> night all
[21:51] <tsimonq2> Honestly Valorie, I see that as the only option at the moment.
[21:51] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: o/
[21:51] <tsimonq2> We have to wait for this thing to be patched.
[21:52] <tsimonq2> The build farm is only crippled, but it's superslow.
[21:52] <valorie> if our stuff was already fixed before hitting their builders, perhaps we would have a better reputation with the release team
[21:52] <tsimonq2> Which is why I am starting to spark discussions regarding giving everyone in ~ubuntu-dev Bileto access.
[21:53] <valorie> what does that access allow?
[21:53] <acheronuk> autotests
[21:53] <valorie> niters acheronuk
[21:53] <tsimonq2> It allows access to CI Train PPAs which have a full suite of automated tests and everything that would be ran if uploaded directly to the archive.
[21:53] <acheronuk> I will go in a sec, lol
[21:54] <valorie> ah
[21:54] <tsimonq2> Once everything is tested, you press one button and sources + binaries are copied to the archive.
[21:54] <valorie> that would be awesome
[21:54] <valorie> why don't we have access to that NOW?
[21:54] <acheronuk> and then all the tests that did pass, fail
[21:54] <acheronuk> :P
[21:54] <tsimonq2> I've convinced them to give me access to do Qt transitions but other than that, only Core Developers have access to it otherwise.
[21:54] <valorie> acheronuk: lol
[21:54] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: hah
[21:54] <valorie> hm
[21:55] <acheronuk> because someone uploaded broken stuff in the meantime
[21:55] <valorie> so I guess riddell always had access to that
[21:55] <valorie> and since he was an AA, everything was painless
[21:55] <tsimonq2> Right.
[21:56]  * valorie shakes her fist at the universe
[21:56] <valorie> so unfair
[21:56] <valorie> ah well
[21:56]  * acheronuk shakes fist at main and multiverse
[21:56] <tsimonq2> I totally blame Intel for this (excuse my french) bullshit.
[21:56] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: hahahahahaha
[21:56] <acheronuk> but mostly universe
[21:57] <tsimonq2> valorie: Had this not been disclosed early, things would be fine.
[21:57] <valorie> yes
[21:57] <valorie> whoever let that out.....
[21:57] <valorie> grrrrr
[21:58] <valorie> well, Intel scientists were monumentally arrogant
[21:58] <tsimonq2> I agree.
[21:58] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: doubt that would have got the microcode updates out by now, unless those spectre vulns would have still been under wraps
[21:58] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: They released it a week early.
[21:58] <tsimonq2> They expected to have that long.
[21:58] <valorie> sort of a double-edged sword though
[21:59] <tsimonq2> Right.
[21:59] <valorie> the builders wouldn't have been shut down
[21:59] <valorie> and perhaps those vulns would have been baked in for even longer
[21:59] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: yes, and nearly a moth later, things are still borked, and would have been on that basis, even it not leaked
[21:59] <acheronuk> s/moth/month
[21:59] <tsimonq2> Right.
[22:00] <tsimonq2> All of this is frustrating.
[22:00] <tsimonq2> I'm Frustrated.
[22:00] <valorie> monunmentally
[22:00] <acheronuk> initial crap was the early release, but now there is not that excuse
[22:00] <tsimonq2> Right.
[22:00] <valorie> amen
[22:00] <tsimonq2> This release cycle...
[22:00] <tsimonq2> like holy shite
[22:00] <tsimonq2> :/
[22:01] <valorie> I have no clue why they don't replace the crippled machines
[22:01] <tsimonq2> It doesn't work like that.
[22:01] <acheronuk> I though it was bad last year waiting for gpgme to get fixed!
[22:01] <valorie> jesus, canonical is in the BUSINESS of providing that stuff
[22:02] <tsimonq2> valorie: Canonical has said multiple times, the machines that are open for building already have patches. Blame Intel and AMD for taking so long.
[22:02] <tsimonq2> They've done what they can.
[22:02] <valorie> no
[22:02] <tsimonq2> We should stop giving them a hard time about it.
[22:02] <tsimonq2> They've done what they can.
[22:02] <valorie> they could provide more patched machines
[22:02] <valorie> that's what they DO
[22:03] <tsimonq2> It doesn't work like that; they already have a set of machines, and they have a limited budget to that department.
[22:03] <tsimonq2> I've had these conversations.
[22:03] <tsimonq2> I've asked the exact same things.
[22:03] <valorie> understood
[22:03] <acheronuk> I've not heard of any other distro being so crippled
[22:03] <tsimonq2> There's nothing they can do at the moment.
[22:03] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: They have a different build infrastructure.
[22:03] <acheronuk> OBS seems to being going as normal
[22:04] <valorie> there's nothing they WILL do at the moment
[22:04] <valorie> I get that
[22:04] <valorie> that's why it's so frustrating
[22:04] <acheronuk> seems a case of sit on their hands and wait for someone else to fix it
[22:04] <valorie> yes
[22:05] <acheronuk> I am probbaly being mean, but I'm starting to not care
[22:05] <valorie> suse and redhat are not suffering that I've heard
[22:05] <valorie> or for that matter, microsoft or apple
[22:05] <valorie> or google, or amazon
[22:05]  * acheronuk wonders if we could submit our stuff to OBS. lol
[22:05] <valorie> we can
[22:05] <tsimonq2> :/
[22:06] <valorie> probably more trouble than it's worth
[22:06] <tsimonq2> Y'all are frustrating me.
[22:06] <acheronuk> that would be funny. and very sad
[22:06] <valorie> but anybody can
[22:06] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: join the club
[22:07] <valorie> tsimonq2: this is the universe we live in, and those are the rules
[22:07] <valorie> but the next universe over doesn't seem to have quite the same limitations
[22:08] <valorie> also I missed seeing the lunar eclipse because CLOUDS
[22:08] <acheronuk> +++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
[22:08] <acheronuk> ^^^ Pratchett
[22:08] <valorie> rofl
[22:08] <tsimonq2> There's nothing we can do. I'm moving on with my life, and I'll come back if there's any hope.
[22:08] <valorie> RIP Pratchett!
[22:08] <tsimonq2> I've accepted this,
[22:08] <valorie> oh, me too
[22:09] <valorie> I hope we can fix some papercuts while we're waiting
[22:10] <tsimonq2> E: No time
[22:11] <acheronuk> I've been tinkering with Neon the last few weeks, and honestly think maybe I can be more productive over there.
[22:12] <acheronuk> canonical seems to be on a suicide mission with their attitute
[22:13] <acheronuk> ubuntu itself may scrape by, but screw the rest
[22:14] <acheronuk> ok. going now. lol
[22:15] <valorie> bye acheronuk
[22:15] <valorie> hope you are feeling more hopeful about kubuntu later
[23:17] <acheronuk> I hope so too