kenvandine[m][m]robert_ancell: great idea creating the group on gitlab02:09
robert_ancellkenvandine[m][m], it feels a lot nicer moving the branches to groups / users instead of the hacky wip/ branches.02:10
robert_ancellAnd someone tell Seb he should have a gitlab account by now. He's been doing too much managering :)02:11
kenvandine[m][m]I'll update my classic snap branch and push it there as well02:11
robert_ancellRAOF, do you have a gitlab login?02:11
jbicharobert_ancell: you'll end up needing to have 5 different git remotes for gnome-software (GNOME, Ubuntu on GNOME, Ubuntu, Debian, and your personal one on GNOME) ;)02:12
robert_ancelljbicha, I think github has made us already learn how to do that02:12
robert_ancellIt's still a crappier UI than bzr was in that respect02:13
jbicharobert_ancell: you mean specifically gitlab.gnome.org for RAOF, right?02:13
jbichahow was bzr better for that?02:14
robert_ancelljbicha, yes02:14
robert_ancelljbicha, because each branch had a different URL the fact they might have come from different servers was hidden from you02:14
jbichathat feels worse actually02:15
robert_ancellgit seems to make you manually manage each repository.02:15
jbichaI almost never really used separate bzr branches02:15
robert_ancellIt's been increasingly annoying me that you have to do an explicit git pull at all anymore. It really should just be updating in the background and notifying you of changes (bandwidth and storage is cheap, time and confusion is not)02:16
jameshthat'd probably help hide the latency when the server is on another continent02:19
RAOFrobert_ancell: I don't think I have a gnome gitlab login, no.02:19
robert_ancelljamesh, yes, that too02:20
robert_ancellRAOF, are you hacking on any GNOME stuff atm?02:20
RAOFNot really.02:23
RAOFI might do some light Mutter hacking at some point, when wlcs is more fully-buttocked.02:27
jameshyou'll need a gitlab account to file bugs anyway02:29
jbichaGNOME doesn't have bugs!02:31
dufluOnly features that people debate02:31
duflujbicha, random question: Tweaks' Mouse > Acceleration Profile doesn't also change the profile for Touchpad does it?02:37
jbichait uses gsettings org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.mouse accel-profile which claims to be for "connected mice"02:39
jbichaI don't know more than that02:39
duflujbicha, yeah I suspect we are missing control over touchpad accel profiles02:40
* duflu wishes for the flat profile02:40
jbichaduflu: btw, see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tweaks/issues/11702:41
duflujbicha, that sounds good too, thanks02:42
jbichayou like the 'fingers' default?02:43
duflujbicha, :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/169903302:44
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1699033 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Two-finger right click does not work in gnome-shell" [Undecided,Confirmed]02:44
jbichawow, 11 people marked it as affecting them02:45
dufluYes, people like being able to use clickpads in a modern clickpad way :)02:45
dufluOr touchpads too I guess02:46
jbichait's not a big deal to me. I just wanted to make sure there was a reasonable place for people to get the old behavior back if they wanted it02:46
dufluYeah I think "old" is the key word. More owners of a clickpad would expect two fingers for right click than would be familiar with invisible button areas02:47
jbichaha, I had never even heard of two-finger right click before a few days ago when I noticed the commit02:48
jbichachange like that will definitely upset some people. We'll just need to release note where people can change the setting02:49
duflujbicha, sounds like something worth doing a poll on. I would say that having an invisible area where the touchpad stops working (as well as two finger clicks never working) is more annoying02:53
jibelgood morning07:01
dufluMorning jibel07:13
jibelhi duflu07:21
seb128good morning desktopers07:44
didrocksgood morning seb12807:48
seb128hey didrocks08:01
seb128I'm travelling today so going to be on and off, depending of the trains/stations internet access08:01
oSoMoNgood morning desktoppers08:40
didrockssalut oSoMoN08:40
willcookemorning oSoMoN didrocks08:40
willcookehey Nafallo08:41
didrockshey hey willcooke, Nafallo08:41
Nafallothe mornings when you wake up and your mailserver is down... bah.08:42
didrockswell, less things to do!08:42
oSoMoNhey didrocks, willcooke, Nafallo08:42
Nafalloshort power outage at 7:56:58 apparently, long enough that the timer triggered and shut off the server ;-)08:43
willcookeduflu, jibel - looks like k_oza is out today, so shall we skip the Bluetooth meeting?09:01
jibelwillcooke, okay t oskip09:02
jibelto skip09:02
willcookehi Laney09:02
willcookejibel, Laney - what do you think about this...09:03
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1746099 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "On *battery* power when ubuntu 17.10 boots, after the splashscreen a black screen appears" [High,Confirmed]09:03
willcookewhat does that udev rule actually do?09:03
willcookeIs this a systemd issue?09:03
dufluwillcooke, sure. I've had enough of /hanging out/ alone09:03
* willcooke sings.... "lonely, so lonely"09:04
jibelwillcooke, let me try09:05
jibelthat will be on bionic09:05
Laneylaptop-mode-tools is a universe package09:05
didrockshey hey Laney09:05
jibeldid the OP day he was using laptop-mode?09:06
jibelgrr say*09:06
willcookeThis is the source:  https://askubuntu.com/questions/987821/asus-laptop-wont-boot-to-login-screen-when-on-battery-power-after-17-10-upgrade09:06
willcookethat's all I know09:06
willcookeI can comment on the bug asking09:07
Laneythe guy that asked that question did, more or less09:07
LaneyI didn't see that the poster of the bug came back09:07
Laneyhey didrocks09:07
Laneyyou good?09:07
didrocksI'm fine, thanks, yourself?09:08
oSoMoNhi laney09:08
willcookeAh, indeed #1746099 seems to be a dupe of #172693009:08
willcookeI will mark it as such09:09
Laneyyeah gooooooooooooood09:13
Laneyhey oSoMoN09:13
Laneywhat's new with you?09:13
oSoMoNnot much, my phone died while in airplane mode last night, the alarm clock didn't go off and I overslept, so I'm good :)09:14
Laneywillcooke: thx!09:14
xnoxLaney, is it expected that "open file" dialog as spawned by e.g. Google Chrome browser is full-screen on the secondary screen?09:14
xnoxsomehow it feels intimidating, and e.g. "open" button is too-far on the top right corner, from where person clicks "open/upload file" usually somewhere lower-half/middle of the screen.09:15
Laneydon't think so, but who knows what Chrome does09:16
Laneyfor me on Chromium it's a modal dialog attached to the main window in the middle of it09:16
Laneyif you mean ctrl-o09:16
xnoxLaney, horum.09:18
xnoxLaney, yeah, ctrl-o is not modal for me in Google Chrome. =/09:18
* xnox ponders how to find out what chromium does vs what google chrome does, and if it is a setting or not.09:19
Laneycome back to the firefox side :-)09:21
xnoxLaney, no, they have cookies, and I am on a diet09:22
Laneymmmm oat and raisin09:23
jibelis anyone else seeing fwupd timeout on boot? (bionic)09:24
didrocksxnox: google chrome has the same modal behavior09:25
jibeloh, actually the service segfaults09:25
xnoxdidrocks, *sigh* so it must be me, with crazy settings. I bet if I log into a brand new account (cause we have no guest accounts) everything will be fine...09:25
didrocksxnox: I think I remember you complained in the past about the modal dialogs being attached to parent windows, and switch the settings off09:25
xnoxdidrocks, hmmmmm09:25
xnoxbut that was in unity7 days, i think.09:26
didrocksxnox: tweaks -> Windows09:26
didrocksno, when you started to use G-S ;)09:26
didrocksfirst option should be something around "merge modal dialogs"09:26
didrocksensure it's on09:26
didrocksor "attachโ€ฆ"09:26
xnoxyeap, it's on.09:27
xnoxmaybe it is "modal" just "full-screen" somehow.09:27
didrocksdefinitively not here :(09:27
* xnox tries to disable dual-monitor.09:27
dufluPurge the Internet of those far-right buttons09:28
xnoxit's broken for me in firefox too, so it must be me and my settings somehow.09:29
willcookedesktoppers - anyone have a laptop which supports phyiscal rotation, and so has the rotation lock in their top-right menu ?09:37
* didrocks doesn't09:39
Trevinhowillcooke: yes... It's the dell I got in Taipei office. I'm out, but luckily is in andyrock house... So feel free to bother him ๐Ÿ˜…09:40
willcookehaha! andyrock I just need a screenshot of the menu open showing that icon09:42
willcookegoogle images has failed me09:42
oSoMoNgood morning chrisccoulson, are you gonna have some time to verify and publish chromium 64.0.3282.119 from the stage PPA ?10:09
Trevinhowillcooke: oh... Well for that I guess a find thorough gnome icons would be enough10:12
willcookeTrevinho, I need an actual screenshot10:23
andyrockTrevinho: where is it?10:34
andyrockfound it10:39
andyrockwillcooke: give me few mins10:39
willcookeandyrock, no hurry, thanks10:47
andyrockwillcooke: sent by email10:50
willcookeandyrock, perfect, thank yoiu10:52
chrisccoulsonoSoMoN, yes. Sorry, got sidetracked because of an unscheduled firefox update11:21
oSoMoNack, thanks11:25
xnoxyeah, plymouth migrated11:54
xnoxso to get truelly flicker free boot....11:54
xnoxi'm thinking that we should change to have grub as black background, no clear.11:55
xnoxand then make the plymouth splash to fade in to purple from black.11:55
bigonisn't it  more a problem as when plymouth is started in the initramfs?11:59
Trevinhoandyrock: in between my pants probably ๐Ÿ˜…๐Ÿ˜‚12:00
jbichaLaney: could you subscribe Desktop Packages to bubblewrap, brotli, woff2 and libblockdev ?13:01
Laneyjbicha: alright, done13:20
xnoxduflu, hey! i see that pulseaudio depends on the trust-store, is that still needed? or e.g. used by snappy?13:37
xnoxi can't recall what the story there was.13:37
GunnarHjLaney: I see that the "Remove language-selector" card is currently in backlog.15:25
GunnarHjIs it likely that this will be dealt with for 18.04? (If not, I have an idea what could be done to make the setup less confusing.)15:25
seb128back online!16:11
seb128good afternoon desktopers16:11
willcookehey seb128!  How goes?16:11
seb128hey willcooke, good, trains didn't have internet ... which turned out to be good, no distraction, I managed to catch up on a stack of paperwork/email/etc I kept delaying :p16:13
willcookedesktoppers, tap to click on Unity 7 on 17.10 not working, that's a libinput thing right?16:18
Laneyhey seb128, where did you train to?16:23
seb128just fine16:23
LaneyGunnarHj: It's the plan, but we'll see, feel free to add your comments on the card if you want16:24
seb128nice seats, no noisy people, power plug16:24
seb128and wifi on the way at some stations to look at the irc logs and fetch/send emails :p16:24
* Laney thinks you misread :P16:24
Laneybut that is good to know16:24
seb128indeed :p16:25
seb128spending a few days in France before fosdem which is mid way16:25
seb128then going to brussel on friday, then back north on sunday :)16:26
GunnarHjLaney: Ok, I'll put a couple of remark on the card.16:28
seb128GunnarHj, do you know what's the status of langpacks/language-selectors today, like the issues/limitations/what is confusing or needs fixing?16:28
seb128it's funny that you mention that, I just asked about the status of that item via email to Laney earlier :p16:29
seb128GunnarHj, thanks16:29
GunnarHjseb128, Laney: The most obvious thing is that the Language button currently lists many items which are not installed and hence not really selectable. A user may try to pick such an option, and find that nothing happens. If we disregard bug #1727710, the Language button opens first a window with all the languages which are installed. I would suggest that we hide the "Install more..." thing at the bottom, and thus hide the second16:32
ubot5bug 1727710 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Unable to access more than 20 languages in 1080p" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172771016:32
GunnarHjwindow. Plus add a scrollbar to address bug #1727710.16:32
seb128GunnarHj, I need to play with that again but items that do nothing sounds confusing/something we need to fix either by not listing those items or making them do something16:34
GunnarHjseb128: Yeah, the main route is to make them install if not already installed. My idea is a way to deal with it for the case we don't get that install thing in place.16:36
seb128GunnarHj, what is missing/needed to have them to install?16:37
seb128writting call in g-c-c to call some packagekit api?16:37
seb128writting some packagekit functions to understand langpacks?16:38
GunnarHjseb128: Something like that. There is a bug.16:38
LaneyPackageKit doesn't have an API to install language support currently16:38
seb128so we need to talk to upstream about adding a such API and then doing the implementation?16:39
GunnarHjbug #163175016:39
ubot5bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163175016:39
LaneyIt's the WhatProvides API16:43
Laneyso I think mainly a matter of doing16:43
Laneybut how to get the information from data/pkg_depends in language-selector into PK so that it can return it?16:44
Laneyand what is the design for how to present the installation? do it via gnome software?16:44
seb128gnome-software would work I guess?16:46
Laneyguess so16:47
seb128though I've to admit I find it somewhat a poor user experience compared to a dialog focussed on the specific job (at least for codecs install, compared what we had to what we have now)16:47
GunnarHjLaney, seb128: The language_support_pkgs.py script in language-selector-common parses pkg_depends. The command line interface is check-language-support.16:47
LaneyGunnarHj: I know but it's weird to have PackageKit calling that16:48
GunnarHjLaney, seb128: Can't help feeling that it's late in the cycle to invent a new way.16:49
Laneythought we were discussing the problem16:49
Laneyfor 18.04 we might want to work on some smaller improvements16:51
GunnarHjLaney: Me too; just warning for too big changes. What's the problem with letting PK call language_support_pkgs.py somehow?16:51
seb128Laney, sorry, you worked on that, that's not a comment against you :/ I just find it more confusing to open another app than having a specific/small dialog part of the workflwo16:51
seb128GunnarHj, that doesn't seem upstreamable as a solution, but if we can't do the proper thing maybe that as a distro patch for this cycle would be good16:52
Laneyseb128: I think part of the point is that packages from PackageKit aren't going to be enough for much longer16:52
Laneyfor codecs you can imagine getting those from a snap or a flatpak16:52
Laneyand Software knows about all of that stuff16:52
Laneyworking on improving the UX there would be nice16:53
seb128right, that's sort of what I was saying16:53
seb128thanks for wording it better :)16:53
GunnarHjseb128: As regards upstreamable, isn't the kind of language packs we have pretty unique?16:53
Laneythe idea of "install more stuff to finish this language support" isn't unique16:54
Laneylanguage-pack-XX sort of is I think16:54
Laneyit's a bit of a weird one since we have the conditional dependency stuff here too16:57
seb128GunnarHj, the bug comments suggest that fedora has langpacks in the form of installing e.g firefox translations16:57
seb128so the concept doesn't seem too distro specific16:58
seb128what is covered by the langpacks is though16:58
jbichasee also LP: #167867016:58
ubot5Launchpad bug 1678670 in langpack-o-matic "Add appstream metadata to language packs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/167867016:58
Laneyright, doing it via appstream would be a potential way16:59
LaneyI think in that case you might skip PK and implement the logic in Software directly16:59
GunnarHjOne advantage with the current setup is that pkg_depends is maintained for all the flavors. If we switch to a new approach in Ubuntu, would such stuff need to be maintained in more than one place?17:07
LaneyI think each individual package would hold the information17:09
Laneybut I'm not that clear on how it would work fully17:10
Laneywould have to talk with ximion about it :-)17:10
jbichaGunnarHj: I guess there's some responsibility on flavors to make things work if they don't want to use gnome-software (or Discover which hopefully is close enough)17:16
jbichaI guess that's only Ubuntu MATE (Lubuntu Next includes plasma-discover too)17:18
GunnarHjjbicha: Most flavors will need language-selector-gnome anyway for now (for switching language/formats) even if we drop it in Ubuntu.17:20
ximionLaney: you mean https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-Localization.html ?17:24
ximionthis basically covers language packs, but I didn't get to field-test this yet17:25
ximionideally, GNOME Software would look at the system to see which apps are installed, and then install the language packs that have the right extends entries for the installed components17:25
ximionso, the l10n components would never be visible in the UI, but only serve as a way for the software center to know what to install17:26
ximionthis of course requires every application or library that wants a language pack to ship with a metainfo file17:26
Laneyhey ximion17:28
Laneyit's about translating this file https://paste.ubuntu.com/26496249/ into that scheme17:28
Laneycould you have fonts and input method stuff as l10n components? dictionaries?17:30
LaneyI guess fonts can already specify the language17:31
ximionLaney: you can, but only if the localization component metainfo file is in a metapackage depending on those17:35
ximionwhich is maybe not ideal, ideally the component metadata would cover that on its own (it's a good point in favor of adding a full dependency system to AppStream, actually)17:36
ximionI think you could use that file to generate a bunch of appstream metainfo files with accompanying d/control package metadata17:37
Laneyinteresting idea17:38
Laneywe have extends-type stuff on a bunch of those lines17:38
jbichachrisccoulson: could you please push Firefox 58 to bionic too?17:39
ximionI am not sure how much you want to change things - but if you do, I would love to hear what works and what doesn't, so we can adjust the spec17:40
ximionFedora's use of language packs is weird(tm) and makes use of some RPM magic, while Debian doesn't have langpacks17:40
LaneyRPM has a conditional depends thing doesn't it?17:41
ximion(so, this stuff hasn't been tested as much as other parts of appstream)17:41
Laneyif we had that we could generate a bunch of meta packages out of that file17:41
Laneyas it is we get to come up with something else :-)17:42
ximionthe localization appstream component is a real odd one out, because it is the only one that can't really be created by an upstream project (as it requires knowledge of how something was packaged)17:45
ximionso, to properly adopt it, every package that creates l10n subpackages would need to generate metainfo files for those as well and ship them17:46
ximionand to pull in extra stuff, you will also need a generic metapackage that extends some base component of the OS (org.gnome.Shell) to pull in input methods & co.17:47
ximionand I am also relatively sure that at the moment GNOME Software doesn't implement the language pack logic properly (I need to ask hughsie about it though, maybe that's fixed - I guess not though, because with no support from the distro, the feature is unused and bugs are not visible)17:48
willcookenight all19:21
rjCousineauHello. Currently working with LTS 17 on LattaPanda and trying to turn my screen saver in to a web pag. I was looking at the webscreensaver as a solution but noticed a lot of problems with dep's, broken or version conflicts. Does anyone have any better ideas as to a program20:04
rjCousineauAnyone here work used 17 LTS version?20:09
sarnoldthis channel is mostly for development of the *next* version of ubuntu20:11
xnoxrjCousineau, what do you mean by 17 LTS version? all of ubuntu version numbers are 4 digits with a dot YY.MM and we do not have LTS versions during odd years20:11
sarnoldI don't know what "LTS 17" is. you'll probably have better luck ina  channel dedicated to whatever that is.20:11
* xnox ubuntu releases LTS only in the years when Olympics are on20:11
rjCousineau17.10 on LettePanda20:13
rjCousineauok thankyou20:14

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