[02:09] <kenvandine[m][m]> robert_ancell: great idea creating the group on gitlab
[02:10] <robert_ancell> kenvandine[m][m], it feels a lot nicer moving the branches to groups / users instead of the hacky wip/ branches.
[02:10] <kenvandine[m][m]> Yup
[02:11] <robert_ancell> And someone tell Seb he should have a gitlab account by now. He's been doing too much managering :)
[02:11] <kenvandine[m][m]> I'll update my classic snap branch and push it there as well
[02:11] <kenvandine[m][m]> Lol
[02:11] <robert_ancell> RAOF, do you have a gitlab login?
[02:12] <jbicha> robert_ancell: you'll end up needing to have 5 different git remotes for gnome-software (GNOME, Ubuntu on GNOME, Ubuntu, Debian, and your personal one on GNOME) ;)
[02:12] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I think github has made us already learn how to do that
[02:13] <robert_ancell> It's still a crappier UI than bzr was in that respect
[02:13] <jbicha> robert_ancell: you mean specifically gitlab.gnome.org for RAOF, right?
[02:14] <jbicha> how was bzr better for that?
[02:14] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yes
[02:14] <robert_ancell> jbicha, because each branch had a different URL the fact they might have come from different servers was hidden from you
[02:15] <jbicha> that feels worse actually
[02:15] <robert_ancell> git seems to make you manually manage each repository.
[02:15] <jbicha> I almost never really used separate bzr branches
[02:16] <robert_ancell> It's been increasingly annoying me that you have to do an explicit git pull at all anymore. It really should just be updating in the background and notifying you of changes (bandwidth and storage is cheap, time and confusion is not)
[02:19] <jamesh> that'd probably help hide the latency when the server is on another continent
[02:19] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't think I have a gnome gitlab login, no.
[02:20] <robert_ancell> jamesh, yes, that too
[02:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, are you hacking on any GNOME stuff atm?
[02:23] <RAOF> Not really.
[02:27] <RAOF> I might do some light Mutter hacking at some point, when wlcs is more fully-buttocked.
[02:29] <jamesh> you'll need a gitlab account to file bugs anyway
[02:31] <jbicha> GNOME doesn't have bugs!
[02:31] <duflu> Only features that people debate
[02:37] <duflu> jbicha, random question: Tweaks' Mouse > Acceleration Profile doesn't also change the profile for Touchpad does it?
[02:39] <jbicha> it uses gsettings org.gnome.desktop.peripherals.mouse accel-profile which claims to be for "connected mice"
[02:39] <jbicha> I don't know more than that
[02:40] <duflu> jbicha, yeah I suspect we are missing control over touchpad accel profiles
[02:40]  * duflu wishes for the flat profile
[02:41] <jbicha> duflu: btw, see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-tweaks/issues/117
[02:42] <duflu> jbicha, that sounds good too, thanks
[02:43] <jbicha> you like the 'fingers' default?
[02:44] <duflu> jbicha, :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1699033
[02:45] <jbicha> wow, 11 people marked it as affecting them
[02:45] <duflu> Yes, people like being able to use clickpads in a modern clickpad way :)
[02:46] <duflu> Or touchpads too I guess
[02:46] <jbicha> it's not a big deal to me. I just wanted to make sure there was a reasonable place for people to get the old behavior back if they wanted it
[02:47] <duflu> Yeah I think "old" is the key word. More owners of a clickpad would expect two fingers for right click than would be familiar with invisible button areas
[02:48] <jbicha> ha, I had never even heard of two-finger right click before a few days ago when I noticed the commit
[02:49] <jbicha> change like that will definitely upset some people. We'll just need to release note where people can change the setting
[02:53] <duflu> jbicha, sounds like something worth doing a poll on. I would say that having an invisible area where the touchpad stops working (as well as two finger clicks never working) is more annoying
[07:01] <jibel> good morning
[07:13] <duflu> Morning jibel
[07:21] <jibel> hi duflu
[07:44] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:48] <didrocks> good morning seb128
[08:01] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:01] <seb128> I'm travelling today so going to be on and off, depending of the trains/stations internet access
[08:40] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:40] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[08:40] <willcooke> morning oSoMoN didrocks
[08:41] <Nafallo> morning
[08:41] <willcooke> hey Nafallo
[08:41] <didrocks> hey hey willcooke, Nafallo
[08:42] <Nafallo> the mornings when you wake up and your mailserver is down... bah.
[08:42] <didrocks> well, less things to do!
[08:42] <didrocks> :)
[08:42] <oSoMoN> hey didrocks, willcooke, Nafallo
[08:43] <Nafallo> short power outage at 7:56:58 apparently, long enough that the timer triggered and shut off the server ;-)
[08:45] <willcooke> oof
[09:01] <willcooke> duflu, jibel - looks like k_oza is out today, so shall we skip the Bluetooth meeting?
[09:02] <jibel> willcooke, okay t oskip
[09:02] <jibel> to skip
[09:02] <Laney> yo
[09:02] <willcooke> hi Laney
[09:03] <willcooke> jibel, Laney - what do you think about this...
[09:03] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1746099
[09:03] <willcooke> what does that udev rule actually do?
[09:03] <willcooke> Is this a systemd issue?
[09:03] <duflu> willcooke, sure. I've had enough of /hanging out/ alone
[09:04]  * willcooke sings.... "lonely, so lonely"
[09:05] <jibel> willcooke, let me try
[09:05] <jibel> that will be on bionic
[09:05] <Laney> laptop-mode-tools is a universe package
[09:05] <didrocks> hey hey Laney
[09:06] <jibel> did the OP day he was using laptop-mode?
[09:06] <jibel> grr say*
[09:06] <willcooke> This is the source:  https://askubuntu.com/questions/987821/asus-laptop-wont-boot-to-login-screen-when-on-battery-power-after-17-10-upgrade
[09:06] <willcooke> that's all I know
[09:07] <willcooke> I can comment on the bug asking
[09:07] <Laney> the guy that asked that question did, more or less
[09:07] <Laney> I didn't see that the poster of the bug came back
[09:07] <Laney> hey didrocks
[09:07] <Laney> you good?
[09:08] <didrocks> I'm fine, thanks, yourself?
[09:08] <oSoMoN> hi laney
[09:08] <willcooke> Ah, indeed #1746099 seems to be a dupe of #1726930
[09:09] <willcooke> I will mark it as such
[09:13] <Laney> yeah gooooooooooooood
[09:13] <Laney> hey oSoMoN
[09:13] <Laney> what's new with you?
[09:14] <oSoMoN> not much, my phone died while in airplane mode last night, the alarm clock didn't go off and I overslept, so I'm good :)
[09:14] <Laney> willcooke: thx!
[09:14] <xnox> Laney, is it expected that "open file" dialog as spawned by e.g. Google Chrome browser is full-screen on the secondary screen?
[09:15] <xnox> somehow it feels intimidating, and e.g. "open" button is too-far on the top right corner, from where person clicks "open/upload file" usually somewhere lower-half/middle of the screen.
[09:16] <Laney> don't think so, but who knows what Chrome does
[09:16] <Laney> for me on Chromium it's a modal dialog attached to the main window in the middle of it
[09:16] <Laney> if you mean ctrl-o
[09:18] <xnox> Laney, horum.
[09:18] <xnox> Laney, yeah, ctrl-o is not modal for me in Google Chrome. =/
[09:19]  * xnox ponders how to find out what chromium does vs what google chrome does, and if it is a setting or not.
[09:21] <Laney> come back to the firefox side :-)
[09:22] <xnox> Laney, no, they have cookies, and I am on a diet
[09:23] <Laney> mmmm oat and raisin
[09:24] <jibel> is anyone else seeing fwupd timeout on boot? (bionic)
[09:25] <didrocks> xnox: google chrome has the same modal behavior
[09:25] <jibel> oh, actually the service segfaults
[09:25] <xnox> didrocks, *sigh* so it must be me, with crazy settings. I bet if I log into a brand new account (cause we have no guest accounts) everything will be fine...
[09:25] <didrocks> xnox: I think I remember you complained in the past about the modal dialogs being attached to parent windows, and switch the settings off
[09:25] <xnox> didrocks, hmmmmm
[09:26] <xnox> but that was in unity7 days, i think.
[09:26] <didrocks> xnox: tweaks -> Windows
[09:26] <didrocks> no, when you started to use G-S ;)
[09:26] <didrocks> first option should be something around "merge modal dialogs"
[09:26] <didrocks> ensure it's on
[09:26] <didrocks> or "attach…"
[09:27] <xnox> yeap, it's on.
[09:27] <xnox> maybe it is "modal" just "full-screen" somehow.
[09:27] <didrocks> weird
[09:27] <didrocks> definitively not here :(
[09:27]  * xnox tries to disable dual-monitor.
[09:28] <duflu> Purge the Internet of those far-right buttons
[09:29] <xnox> it's broken for me in firefox too, so it must be me and my settings somehow.
[09:37] <willcooke> desktoppers - anyone have a laptop which supports phyiscal rotation, and so has the rotation lock in their top-right menu ?
[09:39]  * didrocks doesn't
[09:40] <Trevinho> willcooke: yes... It's the dell I got in Taipei office. I'm out, but luckily is in andyrock house... So feel free to bother him 😅
[09:42] <willcooke> haha! andyrock I just need a screenshot of the menu open showing that icon
[09:42] <willcooke> google images has failed me
[10:09] <oSoMoN> good morning chrisccoulson, are you gonna have some time to verify and publish chromium 64.0.3282.119 from the stage PPA ?
[10:12] <Trevinho> willcooke: oh... Well for that I guess a find thorough gnome icons would be enough
[10:23] <willcooke> Trevinho, I need an actual screenshot
[10:34] <andyrock> hey
[10:34] <andyrock> Trevinho: where is it?
[10:39] <andyrock> found it
[10:39] <andyrock> willcooke: give me few mins
[10:47] <willcooke> andyrock, no hurry, thanks
[10:50] <andyrock> willcooke: sent by email
[10:52] <willcooke> andyrock, perfect, thank yoiu
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, yes. Sorry, got sidetracked because of an unscheduled firefox update
[11:25] <oSoMoN> ack, thanks
[11:54] <xnox> yeah, plymouth migrated
[11:54] <xnox> so to get truelly flicker free boot....
[11:55] <xnox> i'm thinking that we should change to have grub as black background, no clear.
[11:55] <xnox> and then make the plymouth splash to fade in to purple from black.
[11:59] <bigon> isn't it  more a problem as when plymouth is started in the initramfs?
[12:00] <Trevinho> andyrock: in between my pants probably 😅😂
[13:01] <jbicha> Laney: could you subscribe Desktop Packages to bubblewrap, brotli, woff2 and libblockdev ?
[13:20] <Laney> jbicha: alright, done
[13:37] <xnox> duflu, hey! i see that pulseaudio depends on the trust-store, is that still needed? or e.g. used by snappy?
[13:37] <xnox> i can't recall what the story there was.
[15:25] <GunnarHj> Laney: I see that the "Remove language-selector" card is currently in backlog.
[15:25] <GunnarHj> https://trello.com/c/d6hsAglg/30-remove-language-selector
[15:25] <GunnarHj> Is it likely that this will be dealt with for 18.04? (If not, I have an idea what could be done to make the setup less confusing.)
[16:11] <seb128> back online!
[16:11] <seb128> good afternoon desktopers
[16:11] <willcooke> hey seb128!  How goes?
[16:13] <seb128> hey willcooke, good, trains didn't have internet ... which turned out to be good, no distraction, I managed to catch up on a stack of paperwork/email/etc I kept delaying :p
[16:18] <willcooke> desktoppers, tap to click on Unity 7 on 17.10 not working, that's a libinput thing right?
[16:23] <Laney> hey seb128, where did you train to?
[16:23] <seb128> just fine
[16:24] <Laney> GunnarHj: It's the plan, but we'll see, feel free to add your comments on the card if you want
[16:24] <seb128> nice seats, no noisy people, power plug
[16:24] <seb128> and wifi on the way at some stations to look at the irc logs and fetch/send emails :p
[16:24]  * Laney thinks you misread :P
[16:24] <Laney> but that is good to know
[16:25] <seb128> DOH
[16:25] <seb128> indeed :p
[16:25] <seb128> spending a few days in France before fosdem which is mid way
[16:26] <seb128> then going to brussel on friday, then back north on sunday :)
[16:28] <GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, I'll put a couple of remark on the card.
[16:28] <seb128> GunnarHj, do you know what's the status of langpacks/language-selectors today, like the issues/limitations/what is confusing or needs fixing?
[16:29] <seb128> it's funny that you mention that, I just asked about the status of that item via email to Laney earlier :p
[16:29] <seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
[16:32] <GunnarHj> seb128, Laney: The most obvious thing is that the Language button currently lists many items which are not installed and hence not really selectable. A user may try to pick such an option, and find that nothing happens. If we disregard bug #1727710, the Language button opens first a window with all the languages which are installed. I would suggest that we hide the "Install more..." thing at the bottom, and thus hide the second
[16:32] <GunnarHj> window. Plus add a scrollbar to address bug #1727710.
[16:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, I need to play with that again but items that do nothing sounds confusing/something we need to fix either by not listing those items or making them do something
[16:36] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, the main route is to make them install if not already installed. My idea is a way to deal with it for the case we don't get that install thing in place.
[16:37] <seb128> GunnarHj, what is missing/needed to have them to install?
[16:37] <seb128> writting call in g-c-c to call some packagekit api?
[16:38] <seb128> writting some packagekit functions to understand langpacks?
[16:38] <GunnarHj> seb128: Something like that. There is a bug.
[16:38] <Laney> PackageKit doesn't have an API to install language support currently
[16:39] <seb128> so we need to talk to upstream about adding a such API and then doing the implementation?
[16:39] <GunnarHj> bug #1631750
[16:43] <Laney> It's the WhatProvides API
[16:43] <Laney> so I think mainly a matter of doing
[16:44] <Laney> but how to get the information from data/pkg_depends in language-selector into PK so that it can return it?
[16:44] <Laney> and what is the design for how to present the installation? do it via gnome software?
[16:46] <seb128> gnome-software would work I guess?
[16:47] <Laney> guess so
[16:47] <seb128> though I've to admit I find it somewhat a poor user experience compared to a dialog focussed on the specific job (at least for codecs install, compared what we had to what we have now)
[16:47] <Laney> thanks
[16:47] <GunnarHj> Laney, seb128: The language_support_pkgs.py script in language-selector-common parses pkg_depends. The command line interface is check-language-support.
[16:48] <Laney> GunnarHj: I know but it's weird to have PackageKit calling that
[16:49] <GunnarHj> Laney, seb128: Can't help feeling that it's late in the cycle to invent a new way.
[16:49] <Laney> thought we were discussing the problem
[16:51] <Laney> for 18.04 we might want to work on some smaller improvements
[16:51] <GunnarHj> Laney: Me too; just warning for too big changes. What's the problem with letting PK call language_support_pkgs.py somehow?
[16:51] <seb128> Laney, sorry, you worked on that, that's not a comment against you :/ I just find it more confusing to open another app than having a specific/small dialog part of the workflwo
[16:52] <seb128> GunnarHj, that doesn't seem upstreamable as a solution, but if we can't do the proper thing maybe that as a distro patch for this cycle would be good
[16:52] <Laney> seb128: I think part of the point is that packages from PackageKit aren't going to be enough for much longer
[16:52] <Laney> for codecs you can imagine getting those from a snap or a flatpak
[16:52] <Laney> and Software knows about all of that stuff
[16:53] <Laney> working on improving the UX there would be nice
[16:53] <seb128> right, that's sort of what I was saying
[16:53] <seb128> thanks for wording it better :)
[16:53] <GunnarHj> seb128: As regards upstreamable, isn't the kind of language packs we have pretty unique?
[16:54] <Laney> the idea of "install more stuff to finish this language support" isn't unique
[16:54] <GunnarHj> Ok.
[16:54] <Laney> language-pack-XX sort of is I think
[16:57] <Laney> it's a bit of a weird one since we have the conditional dependency stuff here too
[16:57] <seb128> GunnarHj, the bug comments suggest that fedora has langpacks in the form of installing e.g firefox translations
[16:58] <seb128> so the concept doesn't seem too distro specific
[16:58] <seb128> what is covered by the langpacks is though
[16:58] <jbicha> see also LP: #1678670
[16:59] <Laney> right, doing it via appstream would be a potential way
[16:59] <Laney> I think in that case you might skip PK and implement the logic in Software directly
[17:07] <GunnarHj> One advantage with the current setup is that pkg_depends is maintained for all the flavors. If we switch to a new approach in Ubuntu, would such stuff need to be maintained in more than one place?
[17:09] <Laney> I think each individual package would hold the information
[17:10] <Laney> but I'm not that clear on how it would work fully
[17:10] <Laney> would have to talk with ximion about it :-)
[17:16] <jbicha> GunnarHj: I guess there's some responsibility on flavors to make things work if they don't want to use gnome-software (or Discover which hopefully is close enough)
[17:18] <jbicha> I guess that's only Ubuntu MATE (Lubuntu Next includes plasma-discover too)
[17:20] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Most flavors will need language-selector-gnome anyway for now (for switching language/formats) even if we drop it in Ubuntu.
[17:24] <ximion> Laney: you mean https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-Localization.html ?
[17:25] <ximion> this basically covers language packs, but I didn't get to field-test this yet
[17:25] <ximion> ideally, GNOME Software would look at the system to see which apps are installed, and then install the language packs that have the right extends entries for the installed components
[17:26] <ximion> so, the l10n components would never be visible in the UI, but only serve as a way for the software center to know what to install
[17:26] <ximion> this of course requires every application or library that wants a language pack to ship with a metainfo file
[17:28] <Laney> hey ximion
[17:28] <Laney> it's about translating this file https://paste.ubuntu.com/26496249/ into that scheme
[17:30] <Laney> could you have fonts and input method stuff as l10n components? dictionaries?
[17:31] <Laney> I guess fonts can already specify the language
[17:35] <ximion> Laney: you can, but only if the localization component metainfo file is in a metapackage depending on those
[17:36] <ximion> which is maybe not ideal, ideally the component metadata would cover that on its own (it's a good point in favor of adding a full dependency system to AppStream, actually)
[17:37] <ximion> I think you could use that file to generate a bunch of appstream metainfo files with accompanying d/control package metadata
[17:38] <Laney> interesting idea
[17:38] <Laney> we have extends-type stuff on a bunch of those lines
[17:39] <jbicha> chrisccoulson: could you please push Firefox 58 to bionic too?
[17:40] <ximion> I am not sure how much you want to change things - but if you do, I would love to hear what works and what doesn't, so we can adjust the spec
[17:40] <ximion> Fedora's use of language packs is weird(tm) and makes use of some RPM magic, while Debian doesn't have langpacks
[17:41] <Laney> RPM has a conditional depends thing doesn't it?
[17:41] <ximion> (so, this stuff hasn't been tested as much as other parts of appstream)
[17:41] <ximion> jup
[17:41] <Laney> if we had that we could generate a bunch of meta packages out of that file
[17:42] <Laney> as it is we get to come up with something else :-)
[17:45] <ximion> the localization appstream component is a real odd one out, because it is the only one that can't really be created by an upstream project (as it requires knowledge of how something was packaged)
[17:46] <ximion> so, to properly adopt it, every package that creates l10n subpackages would need to generate metainfo files for those as well and ship them
[17:47] <ximion> and to pull in extra stuff, you will also need a generic metapackage that extends some base component of the OS (org.gnome.Shell) to pull in input methods & co.
[17:48] <ximion> and I am also relatively sure that at the moment GNOME Software doesn't implement the language pack logic properly (I need to ask hughsie about it though, maybe that's fixed - I guess not though, because with no support from the distro, the feature is unused and bugs are not visible)
[17:49] <Laney> biab
[19:21] <willcooke> night all
[20:04] <rjCousineau> Hello. Currently working with LTS 17 on LattaPanda and trying to turn my screen saver in to a web pag. I was looking at the webscreensaver as a solution but noticed a lot of problems with dep's, broken or version conflicts. Does anyone have any better ideas as to a program
[20:09] <rjCousineau> Anyone here work used 17 LTS version?
[20:11] <sarnold> this channel is mostly for development of the *next* version of ubuntu
[20:11] <xnox> rjCousineau, what do you mean by 17 LTS version? all of ubuntu version numbers are 4 digits with a dot YY.MM and we do not have LTS versions during odd years
[20:11] <sarnold> I don't know what "LTS 17" is. you'll probably have better luck ina  channel dedicated to whatever that is.
[20:11]  * xnox ubuntu releases LTS only in the years when Olympics are on
[20:13] <rjCousineau> 17.10 on LettePanda
[20:14] <rjCousineau> ok thankyou