[06:04] <Roden1> someone unban me from #ubuntu please.  thanks
[06:04] <Roden1> I'm trying to figure out how to add a wubi input method on ubuntu.  i thought someone there might know.
[06:07] <Menzador> Hello Roden1 ... I'm an op elsewhere but I seem to be the only one available at the moment. If no one else is around, well, I'm afraid you're going to have to wait.
[06:08] <Roden1> i already submitted an email and stuff...
[06:09] <Menzador> Well, I don't really know what to tell ya... other than come back later if no one who ops in #u comes around
[06:10] <Roden1> they don't.  this channel's abandoned.
[06:11] <Menzador> Actually no it's not, but that's beyond the scope of our discussion.
[06:12] <Roden1> I disagree.
[06:12] <Roden1> I've been here before, and nobody responded for several days so I submitted an email, and nobody responded to that either.
[06:13] <Menzador> Well, I'm not about to argue with you about that, so I'm going to have to ask you to please part the channel.
[06:13] <Menzador> You may, of course, come back at a later time.
[06:13] <Roden1> You just told me to wait.
[06:14] <Flannel> Hi Roden1.
[06:15] <Roden1> Hi, Flannel.
[06:15] <Roden1> I asked at #ubuntu-cn, but they don't have a response.
[06:15] <Roden1> My friend badboyjer also got banned.
[06:15] <Flannel> Roden1: Which channel is this?
[06:16] <Flannel> That is, which channel do we need to talk about a ban in?
[06:16] <Roden1> On #ubuntu
[06:16] <Flannel> Obviously we're currently in #ubuntu-ops
[06:16] <Roden1> banned 28 days 3 hours ago
[06:16] <Flannel> Roden1: Which nick/whatever at the time?
[06:17] <Roden1> Flannel, banned by my login id: ReedK0
[06:17] <Roden1> #ubuntu: ban $a:reedk0 [by kornbluth.freenode.net, 2430333 secs
[06:17] <Flannel> Roden1: ok.
[06:17] <Flannel> Thanks
[06:18] <Flannel> Roden1: Do you know why you were banned?
[06:18] <Roden1> got in an argument with a troll and got an unjustified ban.  did my best to follow through and find some error in what i'd done so I submitted an email contesting the ban
[06:18] <Roden1> he called me several names, and then I called him a jerk or something
[06:18] <Flannel> An email to whom?
[06:18] <Roden1> so i got banned for language. like a loophole ban
[06:19] <Roden1> obviously i won't use any vulgar language again.
[06:19] <Roden1> goes without saying
[06:19] <Roden1> I dunno.  I changed machines and don't have the log files.
[06:19] <Roden1> the guy who banned me told me to use some email to complain
[06:19] <badboyjer> hey is it cool if i get unbanned at ubuntu
[06:20] <Flannel> Roden1: so, I don't see an email, but that doesn't matter so much.  Let me finish reading the logs.
[06:20] <badboyjer> Flannel can you unbann me
[06:21] <Roden1> There's some PM logs too, but I don't have those.
[06:21] <Flannel> badboyjer: I'm in the middle of helping someone else at the moment, so just sit tight and I'll get to you.
[06:21] <badboyjer> ok cool
[06:21] <Roden1> He was like blowing me up in pm yelling insults at me there, too.
[06:21] <Roden1> Not that it matters.  Eventually, we made up.
[06:21] <Roden1> No reason to argue with him, anymore.
[06:22] <Roden1> I understood it to be some IRC cultural norm that was unknown to me at the time that enraged the operator.
[06:23] <Roden1> Using the wrong manuals. :/
[06:23] <Roden1> His whole thing was, basically, if I don't use help.ubuntu.com, then why should I go to #ubuntu for help
[06:23] <Roden1> And if I'm at #ubuntu, then why should I post the same question in a different channel.
[06:24] <Roden1> And my response was: well because I want to get multiple sources of information.
[06:24] <Roden1> And I guess it's frowned upon to get multiple sources of information by that op.
[06:25] <Flannel> Roden1: I'm currently catching up on the logs.  So you don't need to fill time, but you're welcome to continue talking if you'd like.  I will read them when I'm done with the logs.
[06:25] <Roden1> Well, I had been getting different answers from different places.  One person told me to use partitions A-Z, and another said to only use partition A, and then that op had told me to use partition A-B.  But someone I trusted more told me to use partition A-D
[06:26] <Roden1> And I wasn't trying to disrespect him, but I thought the information I had gotten from that other trusted person was very relevant and informative; so, I decided to use his partitioning method....
[06:26] <Roden1> And that did not fly well at all, you know?  That was when the guy totally lost control and started PM spamming me--
[06:27] <Roden1> So, I actually used the /ignore feature.  I think a few days later, I got re-banned for using /ignore
[06:27] <Roden1> because he was trying to answer a question, but I couldn't read what he was writing to me.... but the guy had verbally attacked me on two other occasions so, I thought it was really in my best interest to keep my stress levels down by ignoring one user.  and then I could keep a healthy social arrangement with other users
[06:28] <Roden1> Of course, at that point, I decided to remove ignore because an agent of his had contacted me and told me that he was freaking out'
[06:29] <Roden1> And this whole time I was thinking like: I respect ops a lot, and I feel like they should behave in a very mature way.  So, I was a little surprised that being on squelch caused such a huge reaction.
[06:29] <Roden1> but ever since then, that user has been off squelch and in some channels with me, and we got along very well.
[06:29] <Roden1> probably because I stopped dual-posting my questions.
[06:30] <Flannel> Roden1: Ok, I'm caught up there.  Let me read what you've said here.
[06:32] <Flannel> Roden: Alright.  So, first off, to catch you up with some of the things you've said:
[06:33] <Flannel> Yes, it is considered generally rude to ask a question in more than one channel at once.  It's called crossposting, and most channels frown upon it.  It basically wastes people's time when more than one person answers you.
[06:33] <Roden> Makes sense.
[06:34] <Flannel> Second, #ubuntu is for general Ubuntu technical support.  Sometimes there are questions better asked in other channels, usually because they can sit down and get into the details with you (like your original question three months ago about compiling something)
[06:34] <badboyjer> what about me why am i banned
[06:34] <Flannel> badboyjer: Again, please wait.
[06:34] <badboyjer> ok
[06:36] <Flannel> Roden: Third, if you're ever in a situation where you think you need to ignore someone in #ubuntu, it's best to come let us know in here.  We can work with both parties to resolve the issue.  If there is a problem, we'd rather it get resolved than be ignored, because why should 1500 people have to /ignore someone.  Also, with a channel that size, people will likely not answer your questions if they see someone else has answered it, even if you c
[06:36] <Roden> okay.
[06:36] <Flannel> and I'll wait for you to catch up.
[06:37] <Flannel> ok.
[06:37] <Roden> That would help me a lot.  I have to avoid highly emotional situations like arguments.
[06:38] <Flannel> Roden: Please spend a few minutes reading our IRC guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines  let me know when you're finished.
[06:38] <Roden> okay.
[06:39] <Roden> interesting.  two of the issues are mentioned there.
[06:39] <Flannel> Right, we try to write things down so people don't have to read minds to know them.
[06:40] <Roden> oh i used the appeal process page
[06:41] <badboyjer> Flannel are you almost ready?
[06:41] <Roden> Jist a minute, god dammit! lol
[06:41] <Roden> oh sorry dude
[06:41] <Roden> language
[06:41] <Menzador> o_O
[06:41] <Roden> how are you, badboyjer?  Long time no see.
[06:41] <badboyjer> yea for sure
[06:41] <badboyjer> im good
[06:41] <Roden> Sorry.  I've been watching Harrison Ford movies.
[06:42] <Flannel> badboyjer: If you don't want to wait, you can just leave.
[06:42] <Roden> Well, eventually I decided that the op had a legitimate reason to ban me.  but he said the ban would be lifted automatically....
[06:43] <Roden> 28 Weeks Later, I thought--  I'm sorry, 28 days later.
[06:44] <Flannel> Roden: No, bans aren't lifted automatically.  Because if we can't talk to someone about why they're banned, they're just going to get banned again for the same thing in the future.  And no one wants that.
[06:44] <Flannel> Roden: Anyway.  Did you read and do you understand the stuff in the guidelines, and think you'll be able to have a better time in #ubuntu in the future?
[06:44] <Roden> sure.
[06:45] <Flannel> Roden: Alright.  Sounds good.  Give me a minute to unban you, and then I'd like you to join #ubuntu and say something (to verify I didn't miss any mutes/bans/etc)
[06:45] <Flannel> Roden: Alright.  Give it a try.
[06:47] <Flannel> Roden: Great.
[06:47] <Roden> checks out
[06:47] <Flannel> Roden: Alright.  Is there anything else we can help you with today?
[06:48] <Roden> so is #ubuntu-irc the place where you talk to ops about the operator code of conduct?
[06:48] <Flannel> Roden: No, here.
[06:48] <Roden> alright.
[06:48] <Roden> badboyjer, you got the floor, oggie.
[06:48] <Roden> have a good day.
[06:48] <Roden> Flannel, thank you
[06:48] <Flannel> Roden: And please feel free to come say stuff if you need help.  We're a pretty friendly bunch.
[06:48] <Flannel> Roden: Thank you.  Have a nice day.
[06:53] <Flannel> badboyjer: Alright.  Howedy.
[06:53] <badboyjer> hey whats up
[06:54] <badboyjer> are you gonna help me out?
[06:55] <Flannel> badboyjer: I don't know.  Lets talk.
[06:55] <Flannel> badboyjer: First, can you tell me why you're banned?
[06:55] <badboyjer> i dont really recall. i guess i was swearing
[06:57] <Flannel> ok.
[06:57] <badboyjer> do you know why i was banned???
[06:57] <Flannel> So, I think it has to do with you being offtopic.  But lets cover swearing as well, while we're at it.
[06:57] <badboyjer> ok
[06:58] <Flannel> badboyjer: So, first lets have you read the IRC guidelines, then we'll talk specifics.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
[06:58] <Flannel> Take a few minutes, read through that, let me know if you have any questions.
[06:59] <badboyjer> ok
[06:59] <badboyjer> im reading
[06:59] <Flannel> Yep, take your time.
[06:59] <badboyjer> ok im done
[06:59] <badboyjer> reading
[06:59] <Flannel> ok great.
[07:00] <Flannel> badboyjer: Do you think you'll have any problem following those while in ubuntu channels?
[07:00] <badboyjer> no. no problem at all
[07:00] <badboyjer> im a changed man
[07:01] <Flannel> I'm glad.
[07:01] <Flannel> Ok, so... language.... we don't need to elaborate much.  Ubuntu is family friendly, so please be mindful of that.
[07:02] <badboyjer> yea i agree.
[07:03] <Flannel> Offtopic.  #ubuntu is a big channel and it's for ubuntu-related technical support only. It wouldn't be a very helpful channel if everyone was talking about other non-support topics.  We have #ubuntu-offtopic for that.  Whether it's questions about non-ubuntu technical things or the weather or just chit-chat.
[07:03] <badboyjer> ill watch my language from now on
[07:04] <Flannel> badboyjer: Do you understand about on-topic vs off-topic?
[07:05] <badboyjer> yes i do
[07:07] <Flannel> Alright, one last thing.  When you're helping people in #ubuntu, don't get flustered if other people also try to help. Similarly, just because something worked fine for you doesn't make it the "right" way.  So if someone else seems to know better, let them do the support for that particular topic.
[07:07] <Flannel> If you end up running into this and it becomes a problem, just come in here and let us know and we can try to resolve things as a third party.  No point in making a big deal out of people trying to help.
[07:09] <badboyjer> ok got it
[07:10] <Flannel> badboyjer: Ok.  One last question, because I need to make sure I get all of your bans removed, otherwise people in the future might be confused.  Did you used to use the account "psychoticwarrior"?
[07:10] <Flannel> This is entirely clerical.
[07:10] <badboyjer> yes i used to use psychoticwarrior
[07:10] <Flannel> ok
[07:11] <Flannel> Give me a second, and then I'll ask you join #ubuntu and say something, to make sure I correctly removed the ban.
[07:11] <Flannel> badboyjer: Alright, go ahead.
[07:12] <badboyjer> YEA IT WORKED
[07:12] <badboyjer> thanks
[07:12] <Flannel> badboyjer: Great, thanks.  Is there anything else we can do for you today?
[07:12] <badboyjer> no not really
[07:12] <Flannel> badboyjer: Alright.  Please part this channel so we can help other people.  Thanks.
[07:12] <Flannel> Have a nice day.
[07:13] <badboyjer> take care Flannel