 (Photo, 408x616) https://irc.ubports.com/mwgVBiuW/file_4086.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x618) https://irc.ubports.com/EUT0CP0h/file_4088.jpg
 Unity 8 on top of x LOl
 (Photo, 1095x661) https://irc.ubports.com/ZnmxQsh8/file_4090.jpg
 👍
 it tooks 3 fucking days hahahah
 but it's very easy! maybe I will made a video :)
 Yes! That would be nice
 Is anbox ready ?
 @donR, no
 How long have to wait ..
 until it's done
 Lol
 Good morning all..
 Is night here
 same, 11 PM here
 I want to install it on myOone plus one. Any bugs or drawbacks? any post giving Review of usage and all?
 ehhh sadly no one port this for xiaomi mido :(
 @iHusky, your best bet is to wait for halium and xenial to reach a stable state at this point
 @Lyokanthrope, what is a halium
 ddg it. it's a project that gives us a better base for porting OSes like ubuntu touch and plasma mobile to devices.
 @Lyokanthrope, I think tha will be longest waiting :(
 well you're free to do it yourself, or donate a device to a dev who'll do it
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> i believe some day a linux will be able to install on all mobile devices
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> so many nice projects goin on
 maybe, because android is boring for me, and I don`t have any choicieonly android or iOS. Yes SailfishOS is interesting, but it is only for Xperia X and I don`t think that all android apps work good on this OS
 choice*
 Sailfish can be ported to anything else just like Ubuntu Touch.
 But you don't get the Android app support as it's a proprietary component in Sailfish
 @iHusky, Well anbox can also run on sailfish.
 Eventually
 @shenoy13, but not yet
 maybe in near future
 Anbox only works for two UT devices currently as well
 @iHusky, Yes not yet. Waiting for something good is sweet😁
 @shenoy13, but I hate waiting I need fast life and fast changes
 @iHusky, Yup but can't be helped
 @shenoy13, I know, but I don`t think that some apps like google music work well on official SailfishOS, because this need some google services working in background
 @iHusky, Actually you can install google services
 It's kind of a hack.
 But why would you go to an alternative os like that just to do that?
 @iHusky, You can use many other services. There is Spotify.
 @shenoy13, I don`t want copy and set all my music once again (I lose too many time to do this) and spotify don`t show my local music added to their application
 @Lyokanthrope, I need alternative because I want always alternative for mainstream like android or iOS. But I am addicted for google music ( I love listen music all the time) so I must use android
 @iHusky, Oh ok.
 Well, frankly, if you're expecting to be able to use something like Ubuntu Touch and not lose time migrating stuff over, you're in for a lot of disappointment
 @Lyokanthrope, but why, if I will in near future run UB port and anbox, and run google music so I don`t will disappointment
 Morning here :D
[06:05] <Wheezy_WW444> hello
[06:06] <Wheezy_WW444> does ubports work with at&t 4g LTE in the USA?
[06:18] <tgBot1> win8linux was added by: win8linux
[06:56] <tgBot1> Anghirrim was added by: Anghirrim
 @Wheezy_WW444, If your hardware supports it yes
 @win8linux @Anghirrim  … Welcome! Here https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome you can find a little introduction to not get lost, if you have any question feel free to ask in the welcome group
 Hi @Anghirrim! Welcome back!
 Thanks @jonny
 @Crash_Burn Hi Will, maybe I missed the date or estimated timeframe for the launch, but in the last Community update broadcast, you talked about some new UBPorts discussion groups. Do you know approx. when they would go live ?
 Hello! @mariogrip  and friends! - do you guys still use / need https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/  to be up? We're looking at possibly decommissioning it.
[10:54] <bshah> !!!
[10:54] <bshah> It is possible that halium manifest still mentions it
[10:54] <bshah> at least for halium-5.1 branch
 Is the code mirrored elsewhere? I'm keen to make sure we don't drop a service you're relying on, but it's hard to justify us continuing to host something we no longer use.
 We've been looking at the logs, and it seems to mostly be hit by web crawlers and our own monitoring infrastructure, and not actual users :)
[11:05] <bshah> popeydc: Let me verify the actual manifest in bit and then get back to you.. I will PM you on IRC
 ok
 Thank you
 Do you have a timeline for the decommissioning or are you just waiting until there are no other projects dependent on it being online?
 Hi, I'm back to UBPorts after a phone change (Using my Old Nexus 5 now). I flashed it with the magic tool without problem.
 But now I seems stuck on the r1 build, and if I check for updates, it keeps searching and searching
 @win8linux, No timeline. I was just asked today by the IS people if it's being used. I imagine they're keen to shut it down because it's infra to manage that we aren't using.
 Is the R1 the last version for Nexus 5? Thanks
 Or should I have used the UBPort installer?
 @Anghirrim, MDT install R1 but there is R3
 just update
 when the phone will find it
 Next weekend i'm going to try install Ubuntu touch on my old HTC m8 i'll make it?
 @sambuccid, Thanks. I'll keep checking then, or use the ubports installer for a fresh install as I have nothing set up yet
 @Anghirrim, it's strange that don't find the update
 By the way sony has on their website that they support AOSP on selected devices and they have also some forums for developers and so on. Does anybody know if the devices are in any way more open source friendly or is sony just using what they are obliged to do by oss licenses for some good PR?
[12:28] <tgBot1> Ethereals was added by: Ethereals
 Anyone have a problem with oneplus one bootloop after installing ubtouch via windows installer?
 @Ismaelbonato, language! yumi swear-bot image please. we have a violation.
 @iHusky, consider a nice book at the beach or a fishing trip
[12:51] <tgBot1> dkvish was added by: dkvish
 @Gianluca, Is it supported?
 @Flohack, no
 That's strange, my phone finally received the R3 update, but after this, mobile data won't work anymore
 When I turn data on (top to bottom screen slide, then enable data), I see the 4G logo in front of the signal (still in the drawer).
 But when I am back on scope, the top bar does not show data
 @vanyasem, I know it was rhetorical question 😆
 Hello guys,  … Hope.you all great … I have Huawei P8 Max  … Can I get ubuntu on it ?
[13:24] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (想看更多内容，马上下载 今日头条 http://app.toutiao.com/news_article/?utm_source=content) … 跨系统ROM力作，小米4刷Ubuntu（附高清大图） … 开篇： … 小米4，被官方称之为“一块钢板的艺术之旅”，这句话展示了小米对米4的自信和对自己努力的认可，也使得大众首次认识到小米手机，设计之严禁，做工之精美。笔者认为，小米 4 是继小米 2s 又一经
[13:24] <tgBot1> OS、Flyme OS、Yun OS等等 … 非Android：win10、Sailfish OS、Ubuntu Touch等等 … 刷后美图： … 已知bug： … 相机不可用； … 时有卡顿。 … 笔者提醒： … 如果米4为备用机，可尝试刷入尝鲜！如果你认为你是搞机界后继者，刷起来！ … ROM下载方式： … 留言，搞机界的人从不吝啬！ … 点击查看原文 http://m.toutiao11.com/group/6519399303499219463/?iid=25440100348&app=news_ar
[13:24] <tgBot1> 《今日头条》是一款会自动学习的资讯软件，它会聪明地分析你的兴趣爱好，自动为你推荐喜欢的内容，并且越用越懂你。 … 点击下载 今日头条 http://app.toutiao.com/news_article/?utm_source=content
[13:25] <tgBot1> <shen feng> Guys,xiaomi4 can get Ubuntu on it😙😀
 @TheMinimalDesign, no
 @shen feng, no
 @lotuspsychje, Since Android is a Linux, we're pretty much at that day (which is why Ubuntu bug #1 got closed)
[13:29] <tgBot1> <shen feng> @vanyasem, In the above translation of the Chinese news that mi4 seems to be able to install Ubuntu
 @shen feng, unfortunately, I can't read Chinese. and unfortunately that's not one of our supported devices. I sincerely doubt that
 @shen feng, This super group is in English, and also has a bridge for IRC. please be considerate and post your own text in English, and split up such posts into multiple comments in the future, so everyone can more easily understand what you're trying to say
[13:33] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x737) https://irc.ubports.com/EG6uoYX0/file_4092.jpg
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x697) https://irc.ubports.com/PryHmz0N/file_4094.jpg
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x540) https://irc.ubports.com/uyKAuiHF/file_4093.jpg
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x494) https://irc.ubports.com/LjSzr04O/file_4095.jpg
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x758) https://irc.ubports.com/Smw8PG7k/file_4096.jpg
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> (Photo, 640x729) https://irc.ubports.com/DgwoVPGy/file_4097.jpg
 @vanyasem, could be someone working on a port and got it working
[13:34] <tgBot1> <shen feng> Look
 @dohbee, if that's true, then it's really unfortunate, as it will probably never get upstreamed (as they never got in contact with us or even notified the porting team)
[13:35] <tgBot1> <shen feng> Photos in the news
 @vanyasem, so in that case it won't get updated to 16.04 based on Halium
 that's a big shame
 Well I can now flash between ubuntu, sailfish and lineage using magic-device-tool but it sure wasn't pretty a lot of can't stat device, device not available and file not found errors~ lots of patience and trail and error
 Protip: disable auto mounting mtp devices on host machine and use debian as host instead of ubuntu
 @Anghirrim, switch to devel channel, so update again the os, this is a known issue
 @Johan_k, Vulgry
 @shen feng, Can you help us get in touch with them?
 @shen feng, can you contact this person and tell them to bring their code to us so we can help?  Maybe you can contact this person since you speak Chinese?
 oh
 sorry Flo.  haha
 @Anghirrim, Maybe clear install cache using UTtweaktool
 @Flohack, Ok so... I'll buy a fairphone 😅
 @Flohack, Sorry, what's our question for shen feng?
 @exar_kun, To engage the person who made the Xiaomi port, to get them to work with us
 @Stereofont @sambuccid. Thanks both, a clean install did the trick.
 @dohbee, Ok we will probe the Chinese group
[15:06] <tgBot1> <shen feng> @wayneoutthere, Maybe I can try to find this article author, take a look at can provide source code, but to see this article like is forwarded eventually source is in China miui forum
[15:07] <tgBot1> komposteroff was added by: komposteroff
 @komposteroff, Many happy returns Кирилл. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 @shen feng, Nice! thanks guys
 @shen feng, it would be good that they come under the hood of the community ports. Then we can provide them with guidance and help, and also maintain it better.
 Any idea to install Ubuntu touch on Mi Max/Redmi Note 2/Redmi 1s??
 See the group description for supported devices
[16:57] <tgBot1> <Jimmie Johnsson> Posted recently in the UBPorts forum about reaching out to universities/schools to do presentations of ubuntu touch and ubports. I have now started approaching one school too see if they would let me come and do a presentation and see if there is any interest in what is being done in this project. Seems like a lot of people on the team is reading here so I thought Id post a message here
 That sounds like a very interesting way to drum up interest
 Wow, Dalton... top-notch commentary on that one.
 After editing fstab* for mountpoints build giving error
 https://hastebin.com/okojiyodit.sql
 You have two entries for `/data`, remove one.
 @UniversalSuperBox, That should be fine
 It's a modification of `hybris-boot`'s build script, so it gets upset in that case
 No big deal
 @Jimmie Johnsson, https://forums.ubports.com/topic/948/building-relationships-with-universities/6 … Here is the link for more information.  Kudos on such a nice post.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Should i remove from hybris-boot mountpoint fix script?
 @UniversalSuperBox, ah ok, so a bug in that script. someone should probably fix that :)
 @maharudra108, No... It sounds like you have two `/data` entries in your device's fstab
 @UniversalSuperBox, Well i find only one enteries for userdata
 Hmm. I'm going to be working with halium-boot for a little while today, is your device armhf or arm64/
 @UniversalSuperBox, armhf
 @maharudra108, why did you not include the fstab contents in your hastebin? would have been helpful :)
 @dohbee, Sorry i m adding it
 http://haste.akhilnarang.me/
 @maharudra108, Nd this
 that's a 502
 @dohbee, https://hastebin.com/negecadare.pl
 "I watch the Super Bowl for the commercials." Congrats to whoever thought-up that psyop.
[17:39] <vandenoever> can nexus 5 have android and ubports installed at the same time and have boot choice?
 @samzn, Congrats on your repost and being off topic? :)
 @vandenoever, we don't explicitly support dual boot, but with a modified MultiROM, you can do it i think
 @Javacookies i think does, so might have detail son that
[17:41] <vandenoever> tgBot1: how hard is it to make a / install a multirom?
 @maharudra108, hmm, i guess maybe hybris-boot has some issue with the sdcard entry versus the ``/data`` entry there maybe?
[17:41] <vandenoever> ah, it's a FAQ "Multiboot is not fun to maintain and we don't have time to do it. Some people have been able to get this working with kernel patches and recovery tricks, but it will kill OTA updates. We plan for Anbox to solve the Android problem."
 right
 @dohbee, Halium boot worked perfectly when  userdata was set to /emmc@userdata but when i changed it to /dev/mmcblk0p7 for ubports i got error
[17:43] <tgBot1> <Jimmie Johnsson> @Crash_Burn thanks!
 ok i don't know, sorry
 @dohbee, One thing to ask what if i don't change fstab /data partition to dev/mmcblk* what problem i will face?
 @maharudra108, i don't know
 @vandenoever, yeah it's not supported and might not work in the future but it does work
 just search for the modified multirom for Nexus 5...keyword 1.apk ;)
 MultiROM helps me alot right now because I can monitor the progress of 16.04 and have my maine UT install...with the extra of sometimes using Android and Sailfish OS :D
[18:13] <vandenoever> Javacookies: yes, that sounds appealing
 hey folks....mind if i ask a question to someone who is familiar with both plasma mobile and ubports projects in pm?
 so anyway, was just curious on who is closer to convergence, plasma mobile or ubports? on one hand, i know ubports is further along on mobile, but unity 8 needs a lot of work still...
 on the otherhand, plasma mobile needs more work, but has plasma desktop already there, so it might be easier for them to meet in the middle.
 curious how one views how that all plays out on mobile hardware
 I did tried plasma mobile but for  a really short time and it was an old build...I think Ubports is closer because it's already available and quite usable
 well there's more to convergence than just that
 i don't think there are many (if any) apps built for convergence, that aren't using the ubuntu-ui-toolkit
 that's also true..it's a broad idea or word
 agreed. they are more stable on mobile than plasma mobile...i was wondering if the leap to make it work with unity 8 on desktop would give plasma mobile a straight line to get to "convergence" as canonical envisioned it.
 really, they all need lots of work
 @dohbee, sorry , i don't mean to be a pain, just want to make sure i got this right....ubports is creating mobile platform.....and while it has unity8 to use for desktop use case, it doesn't plan on making it a flagship feature?
 light, it would be more light desktop use
 if someone wanted to....
 i'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but i don't think you got it right
 ok sorry, let me back up...
 convergence means unity8 would be usable in windowed mode or on a phone
 and it's unclear what you mean by "desktop use"
 ubports....still pursuing convergence or just getting ubuntu  touch on mobile first and then go from there regarding it being desktop like use with monitor and bt keyboard/mouse.
 ubports is just a community project to continue the work on the whole convergence stack, which Canonical dropped last year
 the stack is on mobile first, because that's how it was developed from the start
 in what I see, convergence isn't the main focus...it's more of making UT work well and work on more devices
 okay....and when i plug into a monitor and bluetooth keyboard/mouse....it will have a desktop feel, just with mobile apps, instead of pure desktop apps.
 @Javacookies, yeah i must of missed something while i was away the first time....that its mission 1 - get ut to work and work on more devices...
 and i thought close mission 2 was get that desktop like productivity
 but it seems like it might be just  mobile first and unity8 is mobile first (and only) interface.
 @profetik777, i don't understand what you mean here. an app is an app. apps must be designed for convergence. sadly, most are not
 @profetik777, Then why is there an apt repository with x86 builds of unity8 for 16.04 on ubports.com?
 @dohbee, tell me more on why they are not. I think of apps are designed with the hardware/environment in mind....they tech. don't have to adapt to sensing a monitor and changing dimensions automatically...e.g. creating an app for android is going to be different than creating an "app" or software for mac desktop.....
 because they aren't designed to adapt to different screen sizes, input methods, etc
 you answered your own question there
 what the appeal (for me at least) was that i get 1 app that when triggered by an input , eg. keyboard, understand that adapts bc UT / unity 8 was designed with that in mind.
 is that STILL the vision for ubports...
 ?
 i don't know what you mean by that
 the toolkit helps with convergence (adpative/responsive layout) but apps should still explicitly programmed to do it
 right
 and today it's possible to write an app with a single codebase, that can be built natively for any modern OS, and look native, and be responsive to screen and input type changes
 and yet nobody does it
 never knew that one....and so unity 8 is the "mobile/desktop environment" and it is up to the dev to program in such a way to make it adaptive to their liking.
 unity 8 and app should be programmed for adaptive layout
 currently, Unity8 has basic "convergence" support...it's usable but some things aren't optimized for mouse/KB  or touch use like the indicators being hard to use with mouse
 BINGO, thank you...that is where i was trying to gett it....the level or, quality of convergence....
 and how that is going...
 it was about to get a whole lot better, and then Canonical dropped everything
 search for some convergence videos out there and you'll see...mostly are Nexus 5  :D
 so progress there has been stunted a bit
 since literally nobody is getting paid to make it be the default environment on ubuntu
 yeah, the was a sad day to remember :)
 like, for example, down the road, i might be able to install a snap of kdenlive on my ubports device, and of course it wouldn't be  active when im on mobile, but when i plug my inputs in, i can tech. use it as if im on a legit desktop (assuming by that time, phone power/specs are there...which, i assume might be in a few years).
 I was monitoring unity 8 silo stuffs LOL
 @Javacookies, i was legit crushed that day
 i wish chromium wasn't such a pain to build on
 my wife was asking, what is wrong with you?
 lol
 @profetik777, that's already possible though not yet snap...I have kdenlive on my Nexus 5 right now and I
 *I'm planning to edit a video with it ;)
 the reason why i wanted to pm was bc i didn't want to come across as if i was poking at plasma
 i hope snaps don't get installable on the phone
 @Javacookies, how app image?
 @dohbee, why???
 @Javacookies, that is friggin awesome! please do a vid about your experience!
 @dohbee, yeah why?
 because it's not worth the trouble
 also, why don't people do dev. on one codebase?
 @profetik777, nope, just plain apt...but beware it's not supported!!! I'm just adventurous and wild LOL
 @dohbee, you think snap has no future? or just no enough advantage on mobile yet?
 @Javacookies, wonder how power management/optimization must be like to get that going down the road lol
 i think snappy has no interest in supporting unity8 or phones
 No, not any more at least
 @profetik777, wot
 @UniversalSuperBox, sh*t that sucks. its been taking off it seems...slack, skype, etc.
 @UniversalSuperBox, services that have android and ios apps for example, are often different apps. they aren't built from same code, and often will have some strong differences
 ah
 slack/skype/etc are basically one code base now
 because they're just electron apps
 so, as of today, x86 apps can technically run on UT, but bc it isn't optimized, it might be crappy/buggy? and bc snaps devs are making room for mobile implementation, the best experience is to do native dev. for UT?
 like, libre office isn't going to be as usable on ut any time soon, right?
 x86 apps can run on x86 devices
 libreoffice is going to remain libreoffice
 okay, but it isn't 1 for 1 right? is it buggy or comprable for desktop productivity?
 You can install whatever you want, it's just generally not a good idea and many apps are kinda buggy since they use xmir
 i'm not aware of them working on making the apps be mobile friendly or not
 collabra! wait...nm....
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/5DUxKoH9/file_4101.mp4
 i was hoping snaps were the best path for devs to build for ut...of course, as you said, they are no longer including the same things that the toolkit has to make it adaptive.....
 hoping it was the best path, if they chose not to go native
 snaps is just the packaging....click will do for now
 app development will be mostly the same
 snaps is a whole lot more than just the packaging
 which is why it's not a great idea
 yeah thats what i remember when mark was singing its praises
 ::tear::
 @dohbee, why not? all in one developement a - z, the "lazy programmer" is best ideology thing, etc.? if you can use it for packaging only, and elect not to use the other components, couldn't that be a good thinkg?
 you can't really use snap for packaging only
 ah
 p.s. thanks guys for helping me with getting clarity on those things. appreciate it.
 and if you do, then at that point, you're implementing your own package management on top of snaps, and you might as well just ship tarballs or something
 or make a new format
 oh yeah I see...also with confinements right? and all other stuffs that you need to modify in your app...oh well
 snaps should be in the lower priority of Ubports....let's wait for it to mature :)
 @Javacookies, yeeahh, confinements might be a pain for devs.....
 yeah, to do it right you need to convert the whole OS to be snaps only. and the whole interfaces situation in snaps is problematic, plus the lack of several other things needed for a unity8 on snaps system to work
 because all that work got dropped last year
 i would say snaps should just be avoided
 for ubports
 and just go pure native only? or do you see something else on the horizon?
 that is better than snaps?
[19:56] <rbasak> dohbee: huh? I don't see how any of these things are true.
[19:57] <rbasak> You can make a classic snap, which _is_ only packaging.
[19:57] <rbasak> And it doesn't require the whole OS to be snaps only.
[19:57] <rbasak> How is "the whole interfaces situation" problematic?
 @rbasak, and which is insecure
 @rbasak, because interfaces are a hardcoded list in snapd, and changing snapd to add new interfaces is a long exercise in masochism
 clicks have apparmor confinement policies that are ready-made for Ubuntu Touch already. We'd be rewriting those and adding new interfaces for snaps.
 so you're not a fan of snaps? :P
 exactly
 snaps sounds promising to me but I honestly don't know the technical stuffs 😅
 For the use cases that are good for Canonical, heck yeah they're promising. Desktop apps, IoT, ready-made services
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/qc7WBCpx/file_4102.mp4
 time to fork snaps with click integration!
 juuuust kidding
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/SYAUTeKf/file_4103.mp4
 lol
[20:03] <rbasak> dohbee: sounds like what you're saying is that snaps currently don't have the interfaces you need, and you don't want to spend the effort getting that landed. That's fine, but it's not like there's anything fundamental about snaps that makes it a problem then, which is what you had seemed to be implying.
 The fundamental problem is "they need some work that we are not prepared or staffed to do right now"
[20:05] <rbasak> dohbee: as for classic snaps being "insecure", you can take your pick: confined with the interfaces you need, or not confined.
[20:05] <rbasak> UniversalSuperBox: that's also a perfectly reasonable statement.
[20:05] <rbasak> The reason I was objecting earlier is that it seemed that dohbee was saying that snaps were fundamentally inappropriate somehow, rather than just missing the interfaces you need.
 @rbasak, LOL. We spent the effort last year, and it was a horrible process which I would not want the ubports devs to suffer through
 making any changes to snappy is a grueling process, almost as bad as submitting a change to the kernel.
 well snaps are fundamentally inappropriate for the use case, really
[20:07] <rbasak> fundamentally inappropriate> why?
 the same reason they always have been. it was always designed and developed in a direction that is divergent from the needs of the phone
[20:08] <rbasak> Why? Right now you seem to be saying "it's inappropriate because it's inappropriate".
 it's not simply a packaging system.
[20:09] <rbasak> So what?
[20:09] <rbasak> Again: why?
 i explained it
[20:09] <rbasak> No, you haven't. At all.
 you seem to keep saying "you should use snaps, because snaps!"
[20:10] <rbasak> Where did I say that?
[20:10] <rbasak> I'm just asking that you don't make broad genrealised unsubstantiated statements about why snaps are fundamentally bad.
 how is anything i've said about snaps not true?
 i have not
[20:10] <rbasak> "well snaps are fundamentally inappropriate" -> completely unsubstantiated.
 no it is not
[20:11] <rbasak> Where have you given a reason as to why this is the case for you?
 snaps are fine for what snappy was designed for. and that is IoT
[20:11] <rbasak> You have stated some (true) facts about snaps.
[20:11] <rbasak> You have _not_ stated how these (true) facts are in any way connected to being inappropriate for you.
[20:16] <rbasak> Real criticism is fine. So far the two things you've said is "it doesn't have the interfaces we need" and "it's too hard to get submissions landed". Both of these are useful feedback: thanks.
 i've said plenty more than that. i've grown a bit tired of repeating it though
[20:17] <rbasak> But "fundamentally inappropriate" is unsubstantiated. "not simply a packaging system" isn't a reason because you haven't said why whatever else it is is a problem. "snaps are fine for what snappy was designed for" is not a reason because that doesn't explain why it won't also work for you.
[20:17] <rbasak> "I'm not repeating the real reason" isn't a reason either.
[20:17] <rbasak> Please stop spreading FUD about snaps.
 and the problem isn't that it doesn't have the interfaces we need. the problem is that the only way to define interfaces is by changing a hardcoded list of interfaces in the snapd code itself
[20:18] <rbasak> Clicks have effectively a hardcoded list of profiles too, no?
 JFC.
 apparmor profiles and snap interfaces are not the same thing
[20:19] <rbasak> Correct.
[20:19] <rbasak> snap interfaces also do other confinements.
 and the former is not specific to click, and it is very easy for us to add new profiles if we need to
[20:20] <rbasak> Ah, so the nature of the codebase means that you would have trouble maintaining a forked snapd to add interfaces, whereas it would be easier for click?
[20:20] <rbasak> If so, that's a real reason, and useful. Thanks.
 they are still different things
 They are, but we're really not prepared to take on the work right now, no matter what the work may be.
[20:21] <rbasak> That's tautological, but again doesn't identify why snaps are fundamentally inappropraite.
[20:23] <rbasak> UniversalSuperBox: that's reasonable and perfectly fine. I'm not objecting to that at all. You get to decide what you want to spend time on :)
[20:23] <rbasak> It's just the "snaps are fundamentally inappropriate" part I'm objecting to.
 Right, we (meaning "the people who primarily develop Ubuntu Touch right now") have not taken an in-depth look at what the required work is to use Snaps as a primary (or secondary) package provider on Ubuntu Touch. Nothing fundamentally wrong from our angle, yet.
[20:24] <rbasak> (well maybe it is, but I'm struggling to extract the reason why this may be the case from dohbee, who is giving me a ton of unrelated facts about snaps but not in a way that demonstrates why snaps might be inappropriate)
[20:24] <rbasak> UniversalSuperBox: thanks
 I know
[20:25] <rbasak> FWIW, I appreciate the work you guys are doing.
 @UniversalSuperBox, I (and my team) spent quite a bit of time working on exactly this problem a year ago.
[20:25] <rbasak> I've not tried ubports yet though - I'm waiting for it to catch up with the Ubuntu development release, which I guess maybe isn't a prority for you right now.
 snappy is fundamentally designed for a use case which is not end user systems, phones or otherwise. (which is why all the unsecured classic stuff was added on top to market snaps to app devs shipping x11 apps on linux)
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/00kFW504/file_4105.jpg Zesty Ubuntu Touch
 Zesty?
 just to see if work, i flashed zesty rootfs
 Where'd you find that?
[20:28] <rbasak> dohbee: I'm not sure I agree with that statement, unless I misunderstand. Snaps *are* fundamentally designed for end users to consume.
[20:28] <rbasak> Phones isn't a focus now, admittedly.
 the amount of work to build a fully secured snappy based environment on the phone, is extraneous and inappropriate for the ubports team to spend time on, and does not really fit within the goals of shipping a converged ubuntu phone platform
 thus it is fundamentally inappropriate
 @UniversalSuperBox, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
[20:29] <rbasak> But I don't know of any reason that snap's design is fundamentally unsuitable for phones.
 @Walid, ah
 @rbasak, for the same reason Ubuntu Personal never shipped.
[20:29] <rbasak> Inappropriate for ythe ubports team to spend time on is fine. Not within your goals is also fine.
 i noticed default time is 07-25-2016
[20:29] <rbasak> But that doesn't make it fundamentally inappropriate. I can imagine a snap-based Ubuntu-based phone and it'd work fine.
[20:30] <rbasak> It's just about getting there from here, and whether there are any developers interested in putting in the work.
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/04s2HbWF/file_4107.jpg
[20:30] <rbasak> The answer right now seems to be that there isn't. Which is also fine.
[20:30] <rbasak> But telling people that snaps are fundamentally inappropriate, rather than not a goal, is misleading I think.
 @UniversalSuperBox i opened terminal and ran adbd manually, got adb shell connected
 Huh. I assume it's somewhere between upstart and systemd, though. And that a lot of clicky stuff is missing.
 @UniversalSuperBox, it is
 Nice looking calendar indicator though
 also loved home screen page
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/8lz8yMm0/file_4109.jpg
 looks the same as it did before
 it actually looks older
 older?
 i mean, the click scope never really changed too much
 in 17.04 it had the big store button removed though
 but aside from that it was always just a list of apps pretty much
 @UniversalSuperBox zesty is based on systemd or upstart ?
 systemd, but it wasn't finished
 if you want any log for zestytell me, also may it work with hybris-boot ?
 zesty is EOL now too though, so not much point in trying to run it either
 @dohbee, yes but just for fanny, i want see it how it look
 but the gap at the bottom of the header isn't there anymore...where the dots are......but yeah, no point for this I guess///unless it's 18.04? :P
 @Javacookies, isn't there where? also, that'd be a change in unity8 not the scope, but eh
[21:46] <tgBot1> corydon was added by: corydon
 hi all. any chance to flash ubuntu touch on a google nexus 6p?
 Hi @corydon! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Find all the most important information on https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome!
 Will check that out. Thanks @peternerlich!
[21:57] <tgBot1> Keziiii was added by: Keziiii
[21:57] <tgBot1> Tony Stark Jr was added by: Tony Stark Jr
[21:58] <tgBot1> kirbbb was added by: kirbbb
 Welcome @Keziiii, Tony Stark and @kirbbb! Please read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 @peternerlich, thanks
 Hey, I know we're not doing ports for the most part right now, what do you think it'd be possible to make a UBports or Halium image that runs on top of Project Treble?
 Gonna have to wait for hybris support for Oreo first I think
[22:56] <tgBot1> Ja was added by: Ja