[05:00] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] alamo18 opened pull request #20: Add more docs in the 3.3.x section (master...master) https://git.io/vAkDI
[13:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] tsimonq2 closed pull request #20: Add more docs in the 3.3.x section (master...master) https://git.io/vAkDI
[14:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] m4sk1n pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vAI86
[14:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- lubuntu-manual/master 2cb5614 Marcin Mikołajczak: Update translation files to current sources...
 @MikolajczakMarcin Out of curiosity, what process do you follow to update translations?
 I might try to automate integration of that somewhere
 make gettext
 sphinx-intl update -p build/locale/ -l en_GB -l ja -l ko -l pl -l zh
 nothing more…
 OK cool
[17:25] <gilir> for the record : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1668722
[17:26] <gilir> looks like sddm is doing weird stuf on DESKTOP_SESSION, which mess up XDG_CONF_DIRS
 AaaHA
 Nice one gilir!
 @julienlavergne I'll ask around to see if a fix can be prioritized
 Unless you can fix it?
 (doesn't matter to me, as long as we can find a solution)
 I probably can fix it (sddm or startlxqt) but I don't know when
 Ok
 @julienlavergne One thing that would also be useful is to split up the default settings binary packages so when Lubuntu Next is installed, it doesn't pull in any other extra session or lxsession
 I know we discussed this at one point, but it would be good to finally get it done
 If you don't have the time, I totally understand, I just want to know how you would like it done so I can do it :)
 Otherwise I can just do what looks logical and propose an MP on Launchpad (or a PR on GitHub), whatever works for you @julienlavergne
 IMO, the best short term solution is to patch startlxqt to fix DESKTOP_SESSION
 Right
 @julienlavergne I did this locally in a VM; it works.
 @gilir, Bah, screw it. I'll assign it to myself.
 @tsimonq2, Just remove the depends which are annoying, we probably have them already with the seed
 @julienlavergne, Ok
 Wfm
 @agaida, So just to tell you directly, fwiw, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1668722
 That is the XDG bug.
 Now, I see that there's an Ubuntu-specific src:xorg delta which sets this up.
 If you're interested, it's available here: https://patches.ubuntu.com/x/xorg/xorg_1:7.7+19ubuntu4.patch
 (the delta)
 So as the bug report describes, this just needs a sanity check and it should be fixed.
 I'm going to talk with Timo Aaltonen, Ubuntu's X guy, on Monday.
 In the meantime, I'll work on some packages locally and see if I can get anywhere.
[22:46] <agaida> thats one of the strange things in Ubuntus XDG handling - yes
[22:46] <tsimonq2> It's the only one I have to bother with now :D
[22:47] <agaida> nope
[22:47] <tsimonq2> What else do I have to bother with to get this working? :P
[22:47] <agaida> you should ask yourself some other questions
[22:47] <tsimonq2> Like what?
[22:47] <agaida> esp. why /usr/share is not in the XDG path
[22:48] <tsimonq2> It's in XDG_DATA_DIRS
[22:48] <tsimonq2> Got a Debian install handy to tell me what it's *supposed* to look like?
[22:48] <agaida> might be some ubuntu specific thing that i don't know - % echo $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
[22:48] <agaida> /etc:/etc/xdg:/usr/share
[22:49] <agaida> and that are places where one could expect configurations
[22:51] <tsimonq2> $ echo $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
[22:51] <tsimonq2> /etc/xdg/xdg-/usr/share/xsessions/lxqt:/etc/xdg
[22:51] <tsimonq2> Right, hm.
[22:51] <agaida> so if the problem with the $DESKTOP_SESSION is solved - fine for you, but that means that you must configure anything yourself, because the fallback to upstream defaults will just don't work
[22:52] <tsimonq2> agaida: Got a link to the XDG spec I can ref in this packaging PR?
[22:52] <agaida> you see the xdg- part - should be fixed to xdg-Lubuntu: or whatever
[22:52] <tsimonq2> Right, I know, that's the part I'm fixing :)
[22:52] <tsimonq2> But while I'm at it...
[22:53] <agaida> can you please paste the 60x?
[22:53] <agaida> on debian right now
[22:54] <tsimonq2> agaida: https://paste.ubuntu.com/=6ZgSxQg3HF/
[22:54] <tsimonq2> wxl: Ubuntu upgraded the pastebin service recently, I saw the discussion in #canonical-sysadmin ^^^^^^^^^
[22:55] <wxl> wowie
[22:55] <tsimonq2> wxl: Expirations and everything :D
[22:55] <tsimonq2> Anyways
[22:55] <wxl> oh? how do you set all that?
[22:55] <tsimonq2> wxl: paste.ubuntu.com, it's all options
[22:55] <wxl> who uses the browser to pastebin? :/
[22:55] <tsimonq2> I do
[22:56] <wxl> laaaaaaaaaaame
[22:56] <tsimonq2> XD
[22:56] <wxl> probably a nano user too :/
[22:56] <tsimonq2> Nah I'm not THAT bad :P
[22:56] <agaida> but i am
[22:56] <tsimonq2> bah :P
[22:56] <tsimonq2> ANYWAYS
[22:56] <agaida> vim is for wannabees
[22:56] <tsimonq2> agaida: Got a link to the XDG spec I can ref for The Right Thing here?
[22:56] <wxl> agaida: we already sensed there was something wrong with you
[22:57] <tsimonq2> lol
[22:57] <wxl> pastebinit doesn't support expirations at all harumph. they should make expirations default
[22:57] <tsimonq2> Agreed
[22:57] <agaida> rigth - i llike things that just work out of the box™ - thats why i run sid with my own repos
[22:58] <agaida> tsimonq2:  look at line 11
[22:58] <tsimonq2> agaida: yes?
[22:59] <agaida> that's the part i don't understand
[23:00] <tsimonq2> https://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
[23:00] <tsimonq2> "If $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is either not set or empty, a value equal to /etc/xdg should be used."
[23:00] <tsimonq2> Ok, so it follows spec.
[23:00] <agaida> hrhrhr - ok, try it again :D
[23:00] <agaida> the best thing is to start a lubuntu
[23:01] <agaida> and then: echo "$XDG_CONFIG_DIRS"
[23:01] <tsimonq2> I'm... there?
[23:01] <tsimonq2> And yes.
[23:01] <tsimonq2> I know what the bug is.
[23:01] <tsimonq2> I'm fixing that.
[23:01] <tsimonq2>  echo "$XDG_CONFIG_DIRS"
[23:01] <tsimonq2> /etc/xdg/xdg-/usr/share/xsessions/lxqt:/etc/xdg
[23:01] <tsimonq2> The first part isn't right.
[23:01] <tsimonq2> The rest of it is.
[23:02] <tsimonq2> Because, that's spec.
[23:02] <agaida> you are on lubuntu or next?
[23:02] <tsimonq2> Yes.
[23:02] <tsimonq2> :P
[23:04] <agaida> ok, it might be that i'm to fast
[23:05] <tsimonq2> Yeah no, this is an upstream LXQt bug. Y'all should put /usr/share in XDG_CONFIG_DIRS if you guys plan on using that as a place for config.
[23:05] <tsimonq2> Otherwise, if LXQt doesn't do that upstream, then it's all as it should be.
[23:05] <tsimonq2> As spec says.
[23:05] <tsimonq2> :)
[23:05] <agaida> nope
[23:05] <agaida> wrong assumption
[23:06] <tsimonq2> Well, /usr/share IS in XDG_DATA_DIRS, so if upstream pulls from XDG_CONFIG_DIRS when it should pull from XDG_DATA_DIRS, then that's certainly a bug.
[23:06] <tsimonq2> Anyways, what's my wrong assumption here?
[23:06] <agaida> the timing
[23:07] <agaida> when 60x is sourced that is before LXQt jumps in
[23:07] <tsimonq2> Right.
[23:07] <agaida> and thats the problem
[23:08] <tsimonq2> ...why is following spec in 60x a problem?
[23:08] <tsimonq2> Like I said, /usr/share IS in XDG_DATA_DIRS, so if upstream pulls from XDG_CONFIG_DIRS when it should pull from XDG_DATA_DIRS, then that's certainly a bug.
[23:08] <tsimonq2> I mean, am I wrong here?
[23:08] <agaida> because if your pov would be right that would mean that ubuntu deliver crap for years  - and that is simply not the case
[23:08] <tsimonq2> ...?
[23:10] <agaida> if we aggree that 60x should create a meaningful path - that will mean also that there should be a place where some enviromental variables are set
[23:10] <tsimonq2> Right.
[23:10] <tsimonq2> I'm not talking about the bug at hand here.
[23:10] <tsimonq2> I'm asking why it's not OK to follow spec and only spec.
 You realised that it's only a bug in sddm ? LXQt and Ubuntu are doing the things right currently
[23:11] <tsimonq2> @julienlavergne Is it? I thought the bug report says that this was *just* an Ubuntu thing, but I guess that might make sense.
[23:11] <agaida> not exactly - but ok, i see the bug or glitch in sddm - and this glitch boils down to a qt bug
[23:12] <tsimonq2> Is sddm what gives 60x $DESKTOP_SESSION, @julienlavergne?
[23:12] <tsimonq2> Ah, right.
[23:12] <tsimonq2> I think so.
 Look at the comment of the bug report
[23:13] <tsimonq2> Ahhh.
[23:14] <tsimonq2> Right.
[23:14] <agaida> /etc/xdg/xdg-/usr/share/xsessions/lxqt:/etc/xdg
[23:14] <agaida> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS="$DEFAULT_XDG_CONFIG_DIRS"/xdg-"$DESKTOP_SESSION":"$XDG_CONFIG_DIRS"
[23:14] <tsimonq2> Right.
 FYI I didn't see the bug because I'm using lightdm on my test machine
[23:14] <tsimonq2> $DESKTOP_SESSION should be set properly.
[23:14] <tsimonq2> I can see how this would be sddm...
[23:15] <agaida> so the original XDG_CONFIG_DIRS= /etc/xdg - and thats a little bit - erm - to little
[23:15] <tsimonq2> No it isn't.
[23:15] <tsimonq2> It follows spec.
[23:15] <tsimonq2> So this isn't an xorg bug after all...
[23:15] <agaida> nope
[23:15] <tsimonq2> (Because it's done properly.)
[23:16] <agaida> it left out /usr/share - and /usr/share should be considered
[23:16] <agaida> but ok, not my problem
[23:16] <agaida> it also left out /etc
[23:16] <tsimonq2> /usr/share is XDG_*DATA*_DIRS
[23:16] <tsimonq2> Well, that's what the spec says.
[23:16] <agaida> ok, you are right, all other distributions are wrong - solved
[23:16] <tsimonq2> In fact, someone should ask Debian why they deviate from the spec.
[23:17] <tsimonq2> :/
[23:17] <tsimonq2> If all other distributions were right, someone contact the XDG folks ffs.
[23:24] <agaida> tsimonq2: nope - debian does it right
[23:24] <agaida> https://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html#variables
[23:25] <agaida> If $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is either not set or empty, a value equal to /etc/xdg should be used.
[23:25] <agaida> so if they set it - it is just fine
[23:25] <tsimonq2> That's what I've been saying this whole time.
[23:25] <tsimonq2> Debian *isn't* right.
[23:25] <agaida> but you understand the word 'if' in the sentence?
[23:26] <tsimonq2> I do.
[23:26] <tsimonq2> 60x sets it.
[23:26] <tsimonq2> It's empty before that.
[23:26] <agaida> so - the set xdg_config_dirs and that is fine
[23:26] <tsimonq2> And if it isn't, it's set.
[23:26] <tsimonq2> RIGHT>
[23:26] <tsimonq2> :)
[23:26] <agaida> and debian set it somehow to foo, bar and baz
[23:27] <agaida> like in
[23:27] <agaida> 2018-02-09  23:48:57 <agaida> /etc:/etc/xdg:/usr/share
[23:27] <agaida> and this is exactly conform to the specs
[23:28] <tsimonq2> No it isn't.
[23:28] <tsimonq2> That should be /etc/xdg
[23:28] <tsimonq2> And only /etx/xdg
[23:28] <tsimonq2> *etc
[23:28] <agaida> hell no!
[23:28] <agaida> i cite: If $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is either not set or empty - but it is set
[23:29] <tsimonq2> Set by what?
[23:29] <agaida> not important - it is set
[23:29] <tsimonq2> Yeah it is
[23:29] <tsimonq2> Why is it set?
[23:29] <tsimonq2> And why does Debian set it and Ubuntu doesn't?
[23:29] <agaida> the second part is important - if not set -- > only in that case --> use /etc/xdg or something equivalent
[23:30] <tsimonq2> Ohh.
[23:30] <tsimonq2> I catch your drift now.
[23:30] <agaida> :) - that is one of the last mysteries in the univere
[23:30] <agaida> :) - that is one of the last mysteries in the universe
[23:31] <tsimonq2> Now, I'll submit this to Ubuntu and let them deal with it.
[23:31] <tsimonq2> Not a super high priority.
[23:31] <agaida> no - and for you it is fine, because you don't want the fallbacks
[23:32] <agaida> but you could copy them from /usr/share/lxqt/*conf and take them as a base for the lubuntu configs
[23:32] <tsimonq2> That's what we do already...
[23:34] <agaida> and until the sddm/qt mess is solved i would simply add a file short before 60x :)
[23:34] <tsimonq2> I don't touch xorg unless I have to :
[23:34] <tsimonq2> *:P
[23:35] <agaida> with some bash magic in - that fix the damn session - that was suggested in qt commercial if i remember rigth
[23:36] <agaida> read the file, you have the path in DESKTOP_SESSION - and set DESKTOP_SESSION right- easy - as long sddm/qt is wrong
[23:38] <tsimonq2> Right, but they *shouldn't* set it that way.
[23:39] <tsimonq2> So while a fallback in xorg would be nice, it's ultimately unnecessary.
[23:39] <agaida> and that is a known Qt problem - so sddm do this basically right, but Qt don't
[23:40] <tsimonq2> Nope.
[23:40] <agaida> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTQAINFRA-1229
[23:40] <tsimonq2> SDDM intentionally takes the full path and passes it.
[23:40] <agaida> damn - read the code - they set, what Qt give to them
[23:41] <tsimonq2> Ah, except for this line:
[23:41] <tsimonq2> m_fileName = m_dir.absoluteFilePath(fileName);
[23:41] <tsimonq2> So you're wrong here :)
[23:42] <agaida> src/daemon/Display.cpp:        env.insert(QStringLiteral("DESKTOP_SESSION"), session.desktopSession());
[23:42] <agaida> ^^
[23:42] <tsimonq2> Right, that line is from session.desktopSession()
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     QString Session::desktopSession() const
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     {
[23:43] <tsimonq2>         return fileName().replace(s_entryExtention, QString());
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     }
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     QString Session::fileName() const
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     {
[23:43] <tsimonq2>         return m_fileName;
[23:43] <tsimonq2>     }
[23:43] <tsimonq2>        m_fileName = m_dir.absoluteFilePath(fileName);
[23:43] <tsimonq2> See what I mean now, agaida?
[23:44] <tsimonq2> Oh, and:
[23:44] <tsimonq2> const QString s_entryExtention = QStringLiteral(".desktop");
[23:44] <tsimonq2> So it's SDDM.
[23:44] <tsimonq2> And that upstream bug you linked, ah, this goes full circle
[23:44] <tsimonq2> :P
[23:46] <agaida> ouch
[23:46] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[23:47] <tsimonq2> So I think desktopSession() needs to be modified to return the relative path.
[23:47] <tsimonq2> Something like (rough, untested, right from my brain): return fileName().relativeFilePath.replace(s_entryExtention, QString());
[23:47] <agaida> nope - the whole usage of desktopSession is nuts in this place
[23:48] <tsimonq2> Oh?
[23:48] <tsimonq2> I do agree it needs an overhaul.
[23:48] <tsimonq2> But that's not my job. :D
[23:48] <agaida> ls /usr/share/xsessions/*
[23:48] <agaida> i use mostly default.desktop- so my session would be default
[23:49] <agaida> cool
[23:49] <agaida> and thats indeed the session that have an Exec=startlxqt :D
[23:52] <agaida> so i guess session names would be better - but don't would help you much in case of the upstream session - but maybe with the qLubuntu one
[23:53] <agaida> and thats fugly - to put it mild
[23:59] <agaida> and only another wild guess - https://pb.5id.eu/8Q8S