[00:00] just rejoining [00:09] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/5d2x1gVh/file_4133 [00:10] (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/w05GwaTm/file_4134.mp4 [05:57] @Flohack, I found him,but he don't speak english,he is in the chinese ubports group === lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje [06:06] Nice work. You found the person who ported ubports to those devices? [06:07] Now... What do we do? I guess we need you to be a bridge? :) [06:08] Im going to sleep... Don't lose this champion! [06:33] @shen feng, in Telegram or other IM? [06:34] @NotKit, in telegram [06:34] @NotKit, in TG [06:34] (Sticker, 360x512) https://irc.ubports.com/QdZwT66l/file_4135 [06:34] @kuailexs, 😀 [08:55] is it possible to change the global GRID_UNIT_PX without needing a reboot? [08:56] @Javacookies, try restarting unity8 [08:57] @shen feng, Ok no problem, but good that we have him. Can you ask him if he is aware of latest halium porting guide? [09:03] @vanyasem, that worked! thanks … but I wonder how it is done when connected to a monitor, it doesn't need the restart of Unity8 [09:30] It's too long since I touched Unity8 for me to remember how it responds. But, in general, Mir clients can reconfigure the display. In particular the 'mirout' example provides a command-line to do it. [10:03] @Flohack, Yes, I know, but Halium-based workspaces have not progressed [10:16] @kuailexs, But we can prepare everything with the Halium reference rootfs and actually ubuntu touch has already modified scripts and initrd to boot with halium. So he should follow the porting guide, and also add the device to the Halium github, tracking hardware status. Like here myself: https://github.com/Halium/projectmanagement/issues/41 [10:25] ok, i keep trying [10:37] validovic was added by: validovic [10:38] Hello, I need to port my phone, is android phone Gionee P5W, can I port it? [10:53] @validovic, Porting to a new phone needs a significant effort based on skills, knowledge and access to phone specific driver code. … From experience with similar questions being asked in the past I think that if you already had the skills and knowledge you'd ask the question differently. While we can all learn skills and knowledge you are looking many months of hard and frustrating work. (And that's if the manufacturer makes the drivers [10:53] available - which is often not the case.) [11:06] I can learn if you help me where I need start. [11:11] @validovic, The first thing you need to get working on your phone is https://halium.org. There's documentation there on how to get started. I have no personal knowledge of that project. … Although the current UPports phone images are not Hallium based that is changing and they will be by the time you are ready for the next step. [11:14] Thank you so much Mr.@alan_griffiths :D I start with it now [11:27] GagareenTelegram was added by: GagareenTelegram [11:28] @GagareenTelegram, welcome Александр [11:28] @alan_griffiths, @alan_griffiths what's your opinion how many developers and man hours required to make unity 8 production ready? [11:29] Or another way if canonical would have continued with development do you think at least by 20.04 they would have complete convergence? [11:31] Convergence is working [11:32] What is your definition of complete? [11:32] @technicalbird, If they had continued with the level of investment they had desktop would be working for 18.04 as well as the phone is. There would still be some issues with convergence because apps and toolkits would still need work to support multiple modes. [11:34] What I like about the convergence is the same user experience (code base) on both desktop and Mobile! [11:35] @alan_griffiths, If they were so close to achieve the convergence why did they drop it? ( I hope this you can answer in public). [11:36] It wasn't making money... This is public [11:36] @technicalbird, It has been answered in public: it was expensive but not profitable. [11:37] How can they expect beta software to be profitable? [11:37] First make it usable and then think of profit.. isn't that the thumb rule? [11:40] Maybe it was costing more then expected!? [11:42] Hey is it possible to take an picture from CLI on UT ? Like fswebcam (not working) or are there any python module to make this ? Thanks :) [11:47] @DiogoConstantino, That's the "sunk cost" fallacy. Money already spent is gone. The cost to complete was (and is) relatively low. … But where's the market that would recover even that cost? (If Canonical were very wrong, don't you think another business else would have picked up the code and run with it?) [11:47] Someone should... [11:48] easy to say when it's not your money 😉 [11:54] I put some of mine... I buyed almost all the "oficial" devices, I donated to Canonical (specifically to convergence) [11:54] I did my part on the way that makes sense for someone like me [11:54] I actually got more than one unit of those oficial devices [11:55] 2 BQ E4.5, 1 BQ E5, 1 BQ M10, 1 Meizu MX Pro5 [11:56] Right, which is great! But remember most of that goes to the vendors and what percentage canonical got probably wasn't enough across the board for it to be sustainable long term. [11:56] I also donated to Canonical [11:56] we can donate (remember the Ubuntu download screen) [11:56] To Canonical or Ubuntu? they are different [11:57] It is a beautiful vision, and credit to you and Mark Shuttleworth for investing in it. But the "they will come" market failed to materialize. [11:57] @DanChapman my point is that you could select for what you were giving the money and I made sure that part of it was going for convergence [11:57] and I did it severall times [11:58] and I would have done more [11:59] I actually already donated severall hundred do ubports too [12:01] hopefully we can reach our goals together [12:05] Again I think that's great, 😊 but i think relying on donations doesn't really make it viable for another business looking for profit to just pick it up and run with it. I think it continuing as a community effort backed by the foundation gives it the best chance tbh. [12:06] Business will have to bet on different models for sure [12:06] still many avenues haven't been attempted [12:08] (Sticker, 507x512) https://irc.ubports.com/ZeNeG71J/file_4136 [12:22] @GagareenTelegram, Hello Aleksander and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [12:40] @DanChapman, +1 … In addition, having a foundation backed community project doesn't prevent a (hypothetical) business making a profit using this work. [12:41] I think it would be awesome [12:41] A (hypothetical) business using UbuntuTouch would need to cover their support obligations. E.g. they would need to employ (or contract) developers to work on the code. And it should be a no-brainer for them to contribute back to the project rather than maintain a fork. (There's also an obvious pool from which they might recruit said developers.) … However, it is hard to convice investors of the value of such a proposal. And for good reason [12:41] such a business "own"? The hardware they sell, perhaps, but not the GPL code that differentiates it from, say, an Android version of the same product. [12:43] What about Red Hat, what do they own? [12:43] trademark [12:43] and toons of expertise [12:44] "And it should be a no-brainer for them to contribute back to the project rather than maintain a fork. " and what would stop them from rebranding the whole thing into POP!Touch? [12:44] nothing [12:45] My point is that there are successful companies built around open source. [12:45] plenty [12:45] (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Z65C1GAt/file_4137.mp4 [12:45] lol [12:45] nice spotted [12:54] @alan_griffiths, wow. nice. it sounds like maybe you read book 'why smart people make dumb money decisions and how to stop it" that was a really intereasting read for me... [12:55] @alan_griffiths, there are also reasons why this happened and in this way canonical could have done better [12:55] how can I start browser from console to attach it to gdb? [12:56] @DiogoConstantino, this is where this group and its members could be interesting. [12:57] @DanChapman, Even worse, I can imagina Canonical got nothing from the UT phone sales, or even had to pay for it 😆 [12:59] I can't imagine having profit on any of the sales, but I think not getting a small share would have been weird [13:00] what i see so far for potential business is an entity like canonical focused on selling and maintaining safe technology to hipsters. the Rebel Non Google Hackster thing. or focusing on ethics. organic. fair trade. tech [13:08] @NotKit, ubuntu-app-launch "browser-name-i-dont-remember-now" [13:08] But you can use the logviewer app more easily [13:10] is it in repos? [13:12] In the OpenStore [13:13] @NotKit, IIRC last time i did it on a device i just launched the binary directly using a desktop file hint i.e `./my-app-binary --desktop_file_hint=myapp.desktop` then attached gdb to it. [13:15] OpenStore doesn't seem to be very functional either... [13:32] webbrowser-app —desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/webbrowser-app.desktop [13:34] ERROR: Failed to load hybris linker for Android SDK version 25 [13:38] Hey any admins here that work on the phone development [13:38] ? [13:40] @NotKit, 😳 looks like a "fun" one to figure out. [13:40] @DanChapman, yes, especially since it comes not from main browser process, but chrome-sandbox it seems [13:41] @Ethereals probably be easier to just ask your question and hopefully there is someone here who can answer 😊 [13:42] @NotKit, try exporting `OXIDE_NO_SANDBOX=1` [13:42] Well its not really a question but an idea on how to bring ubports to the next level on the mobile industry [13:42] Ah ok well that might be better suited to the forum [13:43] doesn't crash, but can't render a page either: https://bpaste.net/show/d744b9551912 [13:43] idk how familiar you all are with crypto but im sure youve heard about the ICO craze. well what if we do a initial phone offfering. where people would send btc or eth to pretty much start this company up [13:44] @NotKit, Oh is that low on memory warning correct? [13:45] doubt it [13:45] around 1,9 GB is available [13:45] lol [13:47] I guess gles2 error is more troublesome though [13:47] Indeed! i just found it odd it spat that out on launch [13:49] well, but even before: LaunchProcess: failed to execvp: … /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/oxide-qt/oxide-renderer [13:55] Hmm maybe apparmor preventing that? Is the webbrowser unconfined? i can't remember [13:56] If it's not unconfined maybe try using the desktop file of an unconfined app for the desktop file hint [13:57] KunalBhat was added by: KunalBhat [13:57] Hello [13:58] Think [13:58] Could I get a little help here ? [13:58] ninja: Entering directory `.' … ninja: error: '/home/kunal_bhat/helium/out/host/linux-x86/framework/signapk.jar', needed by '/home/kunal_bhat/helium/out/target/product/z3c/obj/APPS/TimeService_intermediates/package.apk', missing and no known rule to make it … build/core/ninja.mk:151: recipe for target 'ninja_wrapper' failed … make: *** [ninja_wrapper] Error 1 … make: Leaving directory '/home/kunal_bhat/helium' … #### make failed to buil [13:58] seconds) #### [13:59] I get this error when trying to build the Halium systemimage [13:59] could someone tell me where I'm going wrong ? Thanks [14:00] Hey @KunalBhat You would be better off asking in the @halium group [14:00] Thank you :) [14:06] apparmor seem to refuse access to /dev/pmsg0 [14:06] which is needed for OpenGL [14:09] can I put apparmor in complain mode? [14:11] Noname was added by: Noname [14:13] hey guys, any body speak germany? Hey leute, jemand da, Spricht deutsch ? [14:18] ln -s ../usr.bin.webbrowser-app /etc/apparmor.d/force-complain [14:18] browser works now, even with sandbox [14:21] @Noname, join UBPorts DEUTSCH [14:21] @Noname, Hi Noname! Ja klar, fühl dich willkommen in @UBports_Deutsch 😁 [14:21] well, I guess now I at least know what to look for, but I still miss rotation [14:22] Danke dir, Peter !!👍 [14:23] how can I whitelist access to /dev/pmsg0? [14:24] @DiogoConstantino hit me up so we can go over the social media stuff for ubucon [14:30] @Ethereals, crypto == cryptography. ICO craze == math problems that aren't necessarily crypto, and a massive bubble [14:35] @NotKit, Change the apparmor profile. But why is this an issue here and wasn't before? [14:35] an interesting question [14:36] sandbox was failing due to blocked access to /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libhybris/linker/n.so [14:37] @KunalBhat, You need to disable/remove ALL .jar targets from the Android.mk files [14:37] TimeService_intermediates indicates somewhere is a package built named TimeService [14:37] I managed to disable Time Servive [14:37] Now I'm trying to find ant radio [14:37] @dohbee, any information about how to do that? [14:38] ninja: error: 'external/ant-wireless/antradio-library/com.dsi.ant.antradio_library.xml', needed by '/home/kunal_bhat/helium/out/target/product/z3c/system/etc/permissions/com.dsi.ant.antradio_library.xml', missing and no known rule to make it [14:38] this is what I'm getting now [14:40] @NotKit, Hmm. Maybe adding a new profile for your device here: https://github.com/ubports/apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu/tree/xenial/data/hardware/graphics.d [14:43] doesn't ** mean any dir in theory? [14:45] it means any characters up to the .so, yes [14:57] @alan_griffiths, I think the attempt canonical made shows that this specific model does not work very well. (I mean it might have worked if there was a great affordable flagship device shipped by bq with a more complete ubuntu touch with a working convergence show case) [14:58] I think there is potential in the stack that could be used for a comercial offering [15:00] Instead of trying to repeat the model of google/android.. one could succeed by building your own devices and shipping them with UT.. or hijack kickstarter campaigns that build stuff with displays and connectivity. But I think that also either requires a lot of funding in advance with questionable returns or does not generate enough funds to finance a group of developers.. [15:00] I see a better chance in offering the UT stack to comercial 3rd parties.. [15:01] Any bigger company that plans to sip some sort of device with an end user facing display and some form of connectivity. I.e. digital signage devices.. kitchern equipment .. home automation systems .. car infotainment systems.. [15:02] nowadays people expect an app store.. convenient user interfaces .... [15:02] some companies find themselves in a situation that they either pave the way for google apple amazon .. or they build something on their own.. [15:02] both options are not attracitve [15:03] the problem is still paying for the developers/designers/architects/infrastructure [15:03] if you sell UT as a stack and the engineering services around it .. i.e. years of support for updates.. [15:04] and UT is still this in-limbo abandoned thing that is widely unknown (by the people who have taken it up as a community effort) [15:04] yes .. thats why you cannot expect anyone else to pick it up .. just because it exists.. [15:05] sure, but you have to already be paying developers and supporting it, to show that you can actually provide that, or be hoping that companies will pay you up front for it, so you can then hire everyone to do the work [15:06] sure [15:06] and it's not something VCs want to give you money for [15:06] which leaves one in a very poor spot [15:07] maybe if you say you're putting UT on blockchain, then you can get some VC though [15:08] UbuCoin [15:13] hum I would rather think of an old-school starting point with some sort of garage level demostrator and a sales pitch.. [15:35] @vanyasem seems it's AppArmor to blame for some of our problems [15:36] need to find out what's wrong with the rules, but neutralizing it makes way more app work so far [15:37] @NotKit, Seems like you shouldn't be blaming apparmor, but rather that we need better docs on what needs to be added for device-specific apparmor bits [15:38] well, sorry about this, I didn't mean bad things AppArmor, just that things fail due to AppArmor :) [15:41] well, like i mentioned earlier. much of what makes up UT is still unknown. and most all the supported devices were already supported, or work almost exactly the same as already supported devices, so some things just worked without knowing why :) [15:43] *insert my code works, I've no idea why .. my code doesn't work, I've no idea why sticker here* [15:43] :P [15:44] still no idea how to trigger rotation [15:48] yeah i have no idea how the very low level bits of rotation work [15:58] @BlueKenny, with `phablet-tools` package, there is a `phablet-screenshot` command to do that. try `phablet-screenshot test.jpg` ( your UT must be connected to your computer of course ) [16:01] aside from the obvious accelerometer, of course [16:01] @NotKit, does dmesg show an accelerometer device? [16:04] no, but test_sensors output orientation sensor [16:04] well, and === Sensor 0 == … Name: ACCELEROMETER too [16:05] @NotKit, what starts to work [16:05] @lduboeuf, Hey, thanks for the answer, but I was thinking of a tool to take a picture (camera) and on the phone ;) [16:06] could you share steps for that also? im up to test [16:07] I think I've theory @NotKit... let's discuss this in halium group [16:07] @BlueKenny, Not really. The camera is not necessarily a v4l device, because of how devices work in android [16:08] hey guys I would know since when did unity8 stop to open scope lens on dash? [16:08] @Ismaelbonato, What do you mean? the dash isn't open? (lenses were a unity7 thing, and don't exist in unity8) [16:09] @vanyasem, browser, webapps, QML-based apps like Clock - I disabled apparmor as in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DeprecatedPorting#AppArmor (click: adjust the desktop file for the click package in ~/.local/share/applications/.desktop to not use aa-exec and/or adjust /usr/share/upstart/sessions/application-click.conf to not use 'apparmor switch') but it's a hack, not fix [16:09] @NotKit, have you tested openstore btw? [16:10] i get that it's a hack, but that will help to test the OS a lot [16:10] it's kinda hard to even transfer debug info when browser doesn't work [16:10] i have to ssh (scp) all the time ^^ [16:12] @vanyasem, yes, it starts, but doesn't really work [16:12] same experience [16:12] unfortunately [16:12] @dohbee, I mean https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjar6PZnJnZAhVBDZAKHb7sD98QtwIITDAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dlpl6SO_zKls&usg=AOvVaw01hac2HIrjozGj32BdUAgI [16:13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpl6SO_zKls [16:16] is scopes gone forever on both desktop and phone? [16:17] @Ismaelbonato, no. it is not there by default on PC, because app drawer replaces the apps scope [16:17] and that's a different build of unity8 than is on the phone [16:17] (but yes, ideally scopes as we know them today would be gone forever) [16:18] @NotKit, what do i replace aa-exec-click with? [16:18]