[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_merger build #1043: SUCCESS in 7 min 1 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_merger/1043/
[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kwin build #89: FIXED in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kwin/89/
[00:11] <acheronuk> test
 tg bot seems ok now
[00:12] <valorie> \o/
[00:14] <acheronuk> [23:55] <nicolas17> I think it's now working
[00:14] <acheronuk> [23:55] <nicolas17> I don't know how
[00:15] <acheronuk> so hope it sticks!
[00:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[00:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_khotkeys build #70: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_khotkeys/70/
[00:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[00:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_powerdevil build #73: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_powerdevil/73/
[00:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[00:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_oxygen build #63: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_oxygen/63/
[00:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[00:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdeplasma-addons build #75: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdeplasma-addons/75/
[00:28] <acheronuk> ZZZzzz...
 @nggraham, I'll be working on it this weekend. Pick a time that works.
 Gotta go in a moment, be back in 3 hours
[00:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_cantor build #77: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_cantor/77/
[00:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_cantor build #45: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_cantor/45/
[00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_amarok build #21: STILL UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_amarok/21/
[00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ark build #74: STILL UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ark/74/
[00:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalzium build #46: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalzium/46/
[01:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[01:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kmenuedit build #29: FIXED in 35 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kmenuedit/29/
[01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kstars build #71: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 8 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kstars/71/
[01:21] <ahoneybun> mm that fixed it
[01:21] <ahoneybun> sphinx is not working on my local machine for some reason.
[01:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop build #82: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-desktop/82/
 @nggraham made changes just need to get my key to upload.
 to my new branch.
[02:12] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_plasma-workspace build #81: STILL FAILING in 57 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_plasma-workspace/81/
 https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity
 What's new with that? :)
 (That's been a thing for six months, easily)
[05:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #114: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/114/
[05:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_akonadiconsole build #44: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_akonadiconsole/44/
[05:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_incidenceeditor build #54: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_incidenceeditor/54/
[05:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime build #55: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime/55/
[05:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdevelop build #79: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdevelop/79/
[05:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kile build #50: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kile/50/
[05:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_calendarsupport build #67: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_calendarsupport/67/
[05:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdevelop build #88: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdevelop/88/
[05:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_calligra build #47: FAILURE in 4 hr 2 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_calligra/47/
[05:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpeople build #86: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpeople/86/
[05:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdecoration build #63: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdecoration/63/
[05:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker build #50: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker/50/
[05:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #67: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/67/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_plasma-workspace build #82: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_plasma-workspace/82/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kmail-account-wizard build #46: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kmail-account-wizard/46/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_mbox-importer build #45: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_mbox-importer/45/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_akonadi-import-wizard build #48: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_akonadi-import-wizard/48/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kalarm build #40: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kalarm/40/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kontact build #47: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kontact/47/
[06:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_pim-data-exporter build #48: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_pim-data-exporter/48/
[06:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libkipi build #76: FAILURE in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libkipi/76/
[09:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #115: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/115/
[09:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_incidenceeditor build #55: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_incidenceeditor/55/
[09:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime build #56: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime/56/
[09:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_akonadiconsole build #45: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_akonadiconsole/45/
[09:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdevelop build #80: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdevelop/80/
[09:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kile build #51: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kile/51/
[09:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_calendarsupport build #68: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_calendarsupport/68/
[09:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdevelop build #89: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdevelop/89/
[09:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_calligra build #48: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_calligra/48/
[09:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdecoration build #64: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdecoration/64/
[09:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpeople build #87: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpeople/87/
[09:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker build #51: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker/51/
[09:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #68: STILL FAILING in 4 hr 0 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/68/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_mbox-importer build #46: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_mbox-importer/46/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_akonadi-import-wizard build #49: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_akonadi-import-wizard/49/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_pim-data-exporter build #49: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_pim-data-exporter/49/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kmail-account-wizard build #47: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kmail-account-wizard/47/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kontact build #48: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kontact/48/
[09:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kalarm build #41: FIXED in 3 hr 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kalarm/41/
[10:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[10:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libkipi build #77: FIXED in 3 hr 35 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libkipi/77/
[10:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2062: SUCCESS in 57 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2062/
[10:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2062: SUCCESS in 1 min 10 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2062/
[10:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2062: SUCCESS in 4 min 6 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2062/
[11:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons build #71: STILL FAILING in 6 min 47 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/71/
[11:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #86: STILL FAILING in 7 min 58 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/86/
[11:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_plasma-workspace build #83: STILL FAILING in 16 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_plasma-workspace/83/
[11:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #87: STILL FAILING in 8 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/87/
[11:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_calendarsupport build #69: FIXED in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_calendarsupport/69/
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kpeople build #88: FIXED in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kpeople/88/
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_syndication build #69: FIXED in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_syndication/69/
[11:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons build #72: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdeplasma-addons/72/
[11:49] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #111: STILL FAILING in 8 min 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/111/
[11:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_akonadiconsole build #46: FIXED in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_akonadiconsole/46/
[11:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime build #57: FIXED in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdepim-runtime/57/
[11:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_incidenceeditor build #56: FIXED in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_incidenceeditor/56/
[11:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[11:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #116: FIXED in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/116/
[12:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kile build #52: FIXED in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kile/52/
[12:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_plasma-workspace build #84: STILL FAILING in 14 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_plasma-workspace/84/
[12:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #112: STILL FAILING in 12 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/112/
[12:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdevelop build #81: FIXED in 54 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdevelop/81/
[12:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdevelop build #90: FIXED in 55 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdevelop/90/
[12:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdecoration build #65: NOW UNSTABLE in 12 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdecoration/65/
[12:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[12:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker build #52: FIXED in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kscreenlocker/52/
[13:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[13:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_calligra build #49: FIXED in 1 hr 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_calligra/49/
[13:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #418: STILL FAILING in 3 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/418/
[13:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_plasma-workspace build #173: STILL FAILING in 3 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_plasma-workspace/173/
[13:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_plasma-workspace build #239: FAILURE in 4 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_plasma-workspace/239/
[13:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-workspace build #258: STILL FAILING in 4 min 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-workspace/258/
[13:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #419: STILL FAILING in 3 min 43 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/419/
[13:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-workspace build #259: STILL FAILING in 3 min 43 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-workspace/259/
[13:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_plasma-workspace build #240: STILL FAILING in 3 min 45 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_plasma-workspace/240/
[13:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_plasma-workspace build #174: STILL FAILING in 5 min 25 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_plasma-workspace/174/
[13:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #113: STILL FAILING in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/113/
[14:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[14:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_plasma-workspace build #85: FIXED in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_plasma-workspace/85/
[14:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #114: STILL FAILING in 8 min 54 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/114/
 @tsimonq2, OMG Ubuntu says Ubuntu plans to move to that for the desktop. No idea why.
 @ahoneybun, Link?
 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubuntu-18-04-minimal-install-option
 I'm going to have to talk to somebody about that
 O.O
 do we still want to change our launcher icon to the kubuntu logo?
 instead of plasma one
 I wouldn't object. Sounds sensible to me
 ok. just testing config changes at the moment
[15:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Starting build #3 for job iso_bionic_stable_amd64 (previous build: FIXED)
[15:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #420: STILL FAILING in 2 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/420/
[15:42] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-workspace build #260: STILL FAILING in 4 min 32 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-workspace/260/
[15:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project iso_bionic_stable_amd64 build #3: SUCCESS in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/iso_bionic_stable_amd64/3/
[15:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #421: STILL FAILING in 5 min 21 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/421/
[15:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_plasma-workspace build #261: STILL FAILING in 3 min 41 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_plasma-workspace/261/
 Y. E.
 ?
 @nauticalnexus, ?
 The minimal installer
 That's what I always do.
 ah
[16:00] <gpunk> I have a kernel warning
[16:00] <gpunk> https://hastebin.com/huyemegako.go
[16:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #115: FIXED in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/115/
[16:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2063: SUCCESS in 45 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2063/
[16:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2063: SUCCESS in 1 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2063/
[16:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2063: SUCCESS in 3 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2063/
[16:23] <acheronuk> gpunk: probably better asking on #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 depending on what release you are on. likely to not be KDE specific
[16:24] <gpunk> ok, thnx :)
 @nggraham @tsimonq2 @ahoneybun @Valoriez https://i.imgur.com/NnqIaLP.png
 ignore it saying ubuntu. weirdness of the KCI iso
 interesting
 can't decide if I like the logo, or just prefer the plasma kickoff one
 Maybe scale it down a tiny bit? It's not got a lot of padding there
 yeah. not sure how to edit the svg for that
 The Kubuntu logo should be monochromatic
 @acheronuk, Leave the icon where it is,.increase the canvas size. That's the easiest way to solve that
 @MichaelTun, That would be better, but would need someone to do a new svg for us, that would have both elements for light and dark plasma
 The logo is just me playing at the moment. to see if the old scriptery to add it worked
 Send me the svg and I'll do it
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/jGDPL7xk/file_4638.svg
 😁
 @MichaelTun If you go to the effort of doing that, bear in mind it might not get used as default. but would be great to have as an option anyway.
 @acheronuk let me see if I can get someone to work to make a new svg.
 @MichaelTun we need the logo to work on light and dark right?
 @ahoneybun, yes
 I'll see what I can do
 @MichaelTun show desktop applet is there as well. though I don't like locking the panel by default, and changing that plasma config is not as easy
 whoever makes it just needs to make the shapes masked into empty space and the circle be both colors for light and dark
 from a usability standpoint, locking it by default may make sense. We get complaints that it's too easy to accidentally mess up your panel when it's unlocked
 (from a recent collection of user feedback for the Usability & Productivity initiative)
 @nggraham, yes, but thsi would be the default on a fresh install. from then on it's the user who leaves it locked or not. not the default config
 locking it also locks widgets in general so I think it shouldnt be locked because of that. If they want to add a widget they have to know they need to unlock them first. … I think either way there are equally problematic issues
 right
 if you could lock only the panel and nothing else that would be perfect but not possible right?
 lock widgets does the lot
 @acheronuk, yea thats why I suggest against it
 any way to make it so the icons on the desktop are not by default overlaying the desktop toolbox hamburger menu?  … Not change the system to not allow that . . . just by default to have them one grid slot over.
 that's a bug in Plasma unfortunately
 @MichaelTun What? The icons are on the left. Desktop toolbox is top right.
 the button is *supposed* to be on the right side
 but sometimes it breaks and moves over to the left side
 See https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390038
 I patched our stuff to force it top right
 several releases ago
 cool. Any chance you could submit youtr patch upstream, or leave a comment in that bug?
 I am almost certain it placed it on top left when I tested out 18.04 a few days ago. I will test it later today to confirm
 it's a trivial patch. just did it there as could not get a desktop config file to work for it at that time
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/pzsCPgTI/file_4639.md
 https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/plasma-desktop/tree/debian/patches/kubuntu_non_conflicting_toolbox_location.patch?h=kubuntu_bionic_archive
 Michael, would you mind immortalizing those in Phabricator tasks (those that aren't already tracked there, that is)
 > Previews in Dolphin On by Default … Already done upstream, happily!
 (by me) :)
 @nggraham, what branch?
 Dolphin master, let me go dig it up
 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338492
 should be in KDE Applications 18.04
 @nggraham, not sure which are already there but yea I could make a task . . . I dont want to just assume someone will do this though might seem presumptious or is phab not always treated as "must do'
 @ubottu, SWEET
 for double-click settings, we already have https://phabricator.kde.org/T7928
 > Show Application Names Instead of Description … I'd like that quite a lot
 there's a setting for having it use the name first, and the description second, which I think is sane
 > Disable the Jack Russell Terrier Bouncing Icons … Launch feedback is important, especially for people with slower, older hardware. If the effect it's annoying, we should work upstream to improve it or add a better one, not disable it entirelyu
[17:15] <acheronuk> today's daily: https://i.imgur.com/aFEVuir.jpg
 or actually, for the Dolphin previews, I think those are in 17.12
 @MichaelTun ^^^
 @nggraham, that is why I suggested static first
 @acheronuk, nice!
 should I just make these for Kubuntu or also tag Plasma in general?
 @nggraham ^^^ ?
 In general I'm more in favor of using sane defaults upstream. If there's something that we should consider upstream, let's bring it up there too. But having a major distro change something can also act as leverage
 if we have a successful release with (for example) double-click-as-default for 18.04, then we can go upstream and say, "see, everybody liked it! Consider changing the default"
 I agree
 so just Kubuntu for now?
 @MichaelTun, Probably, yeah
 in phab you said double click is unlikely for 18.04 is that the case?
 no, it's unlikely Upstream will change it in time for us to inherit that in 18.04
 we can definitely change it ourselves in Kubuntu
 ok fantastic!
 Every time I bring it up in the VDG room, folks seem to like the idea of changing that
 it's just a matter of overcoming the inertia, ya know?
 changing anything is always scary
 same with moving that toolbox!
 the dang toolbox is supposed to be on the right! It's just buggy, really
 @nggraham, the default configs say not
 really?
 which is why I patched them
 can you mention that in the bug report?
 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390038
 @nggraham, https://cgit.kde.org/plasma-desktop.git/tree/containments/desktop/package/contents/config/main.xml?h=Plasma/5.12#n23
 <entry name="ToolBoxButtonState" type="String"> …       <label>Position state of the toolbox button.</label> …       <default>topleft</default>
 @nggraham, this is why I am excited to contrib to Kubuntu . . . every time I have made Plasma suggestions in the past they always get shot down even if people liked them. … Things actually getting changed in Kubuntu is exciting to me :)
 Disable the Jack Russell Terrier  Launch Feedback … https://phabricator.kde.org/T7976
 on that subject, I think it would be a great opportunity to involve KDE's VDG.
 I agree that the current effect is a big dated, but I think some kind of animation is beneficial
 we just need to get an animation that's not annoting!
 would you be able to bring that up to VDG?
 should I link to the task?
 I would start in the VDG telegram room to gauge the reaction
 if it's positive, start a new task for VDG, and mention the Kubuntu task
 you know, or something like that
 @nggraham in that bug, I think Kai means the postioning logic for icons not conflicting with a left toolbox is broken, not the toolbox should be right top but is broken.
 or at least that seems to be what I remeber from plasma 5.9 discussion
 ah
 crossed wires maybe
 we wouldn't even need any positioning logic if the dang thing was in the right place to begin with :)
 @nggraham, yep. That's why I didn't wait for them to fix it. glad I didn't, as it's still broke 3 plasma versions later!
 @nggraham @MichaelTun You're welcome (and anyone else is, ofc) to join #ubuntu-qt on freenode which is bridged to @ubuntuqt fwiw
 That's where the Qt discussion happens
 ok. back later.
 https://phabricator.kde.org/T7977
 https://phabricator.kde.org/T7978
 https://phabricator.kde.org/T7979
 :D
 argh. I dunno how to change this stuff. 🤣
 many of these things are also things I'd like to move or at least discuss upstream
 e.g. Kickoff attracts a lot of criticism and needs work, or else to be merged with Kicker to produce one really great menu that everyone actually likes
 at the moment I'm doing:  … - make .config a git repo  … - make a change in the UI  … - git diff to see what changed!
 made a new branch with the change: https://phabricator.kde.org/T7944
 another, https://phabricator.kde.org/T7980
 what other linux DEs use Ctrl+H? GNOME?
 (this is a trivial upstreram change so I'd prefer to do it there)
 every other file manager . . .  period
 So Nautilus, Nemo, Caja, Pantheon, and Thunar? They all use Ctrl+H?
 never tried Pantheon but yes to all the others
 ok
 that's a good argument
 Please file a bug against Dolphin and link it here
 I'll try to get that done soon
 that I think is more upstream then us?
 yup
 I'm proposing to do it upstream
 I'll submit a patch
 bug reporting incoming
 cool
 Let me know if there are any other changes that need to be made on the slideshow. Once all are fixed I'll submit to be merged.
 quite a few, actually!
 let me send you the phab tasks
 actually just two
 https://phabricator.kde.org/T7966 … https://phabricator.kde.org/T7943
 on the first one. there is no breeze icon for firefox at this time I believe.
 second one is a bit tough, I've trying to cut down on that so much but it still is outside. I'll try again.
 right, and there can't be a breeze icon for firefox; their policy prohibits it
 we should just use the standard Firefox icon
 thank you I've added myself to the tasks.
 awesome!
 the firefox icon looks out of place though.
 it'll be the onle one with a warm color in there, yes
 maybe we should add another app or two with a warm color to balance it out
 but we absolutely have to have Firefox's real icon there. it's a matter of both usability and legality
 well we are looking to switch to Falkon anyway.
 and that will have a breeze like icon if it does not already.
 we are still working on the icon
 it will probably be blue/purple
 See https://phabricator.kde.org/T6859
 right but it will be ready for 18.04 from what I saw in the email.
 are we sure we want to use a non-Firefox browser? I'm all for supporting KDE software, but the web browser is kind of a special case
 from my understanding the plan is to make it the default, firefox can still be installed later if it is needed.
 we can still debate it of course.
 I won't die on that hill, because Falkon is pretty nice. But it is also fairly new to KDE, and maybe not the best thing to switch up on our users for an LTS
 I would be more enthusiatsic about doing this for 18.10
 Falkon is too new to switch to for the LTS.
 after it's had more development time and will be shown to more technically advanced users
 @acheronuk, +1, yeah
 Firefox has the mindshare. It should be the default even if falkon is installed as well
 LTS == stable and boring == Firefox 😝
 Firefox is tried, and trusted.
 @nggraham, lol, yes
 Falkon would be a great experiment for 18.10
[19:58] <blaze> Falkon is problematic, because QtWebengine has no quick fixes and security updates
 and that ^^^
 Experiment in 18.10 is more reasonable but not for default honestly
 yeah, that's exactly the reason I won't use use any of these small web browsers
 we would be making ourselves resposible for our distro browser security
 Firefox has poor integration with Plasma, but security is just priority #1 for a web browser
 whereas with FF, that is done for us
 @nggraham will Mozilla let us use a breeze like firefox icon? or does it need to be theirs?
 5.13 has FF integration planned doesn't it
 Firefox already offers a light theme that looks decent in Breeze light
 I mean the icon itself not a theme.
 no, they don't let people change the icon
 Firefox dark theme is cancer let's fix that. :)
 (I mean, users always can, but they don't let distros do this)
 then it needs to be the official icon then.
 yeah
 Here's the funny thing in all of this.  … Lubuntu Next is going to be shipping with Falkon as the default browser, LXQt as the default DE, and Calamares as the installer. It might be a good testing ground for Kubuntu, given that it'll be treated like a normal release
 indeed, let's let someone else take the risk and do the heavy lifting :)
 wait calamares?
 Calamares is a pretty nice installer, to be fair
 well Next is all about testing. Lubuntu 18.04 will still be Lxde right?
 @nggraham, it is but on an LTS?
 Yes Lubuntu LTS is not including these changes
 ok makes sense then.
 @ahoneybun, Yeah, but we'll ship with a 9 month LXQt edition
 So yes
 One discussion I have to have yet is the security story with QtWebEngine
 Ubiquity might have issues down the road and seeing as Lubuntu and Kubuntu are the only Qt based distros at the moment.
 I wonder how long Lubuntu and LxQT are even going to be around. The whole concept of the "lightweight DE" has been absolutely destroyed by the work done to make plasma trim and lean
 we should work together on either fixing ubiquity or using calamares.
 Is Kubuntu participating in the Ubuntu data collection stuff that was announced?
 not that I know of.
 @MichaelTun, All flavors have to. There's no choice.
 @nggraham, That's why we're refocusing from being a lightweight flavor
 I mean if they bake it into the installer then it would be in kubuntu as well unless we remove it.
 @nggraham, Lol you funny. "KDE is bloated" is the most common statement from non Plasma fans regarding Plasma. It has been for a decade
 And *LXQt
 @MichaelTun, and today it's completely false, thankfully!
 @tsimonq2, unless we use calamares.
 it's like a 5-10 year old impression
 I'm all for the data by the way. Finally knowing how many people use it would be good lol
 @ahoneybun, I think that we should all move to Calamares and ditch the Ubiquity Qt frontend.
 @ahoneybun, Yeah, right. Then each flavor can decide what they want to do.
 @nggraham, I think 4.2 did it
 well we would hit a wall with a move to Qt6 as well in ubiquity like we did with Qt5 move.
 Right, I think once we completely migrate, the Qt frontend should be removed.
 Calamares upstream is quick enough to pick up on Qt 6 early, I think.
 Either way, it's a modular codebase that would be easy to convert over
 BTW @ahoneybun, have you seen how simple the Calamares layout is?
 It's literally all just YAML files and simple QML
 @ahoneybun @acheronuk https://github.com/lubuntu-team/calamares-settings-ubuntu/tree/master/lubuntu
 Take a look there, it's super simple
 Plus, translations are easy too. All you have to do is drop a file with the right filename in branding/lubuntu/lang iirc
 I definitely think it's the way to go.
 Plus, plugins are super simple and can be written in C++ or Python. You just have to drag + drop the right directory in and put the directory name in settings.conf
 In fact, it's on my TODO list to write a simple plugin which does the checkboxes Ubiquity has, plus some custom Lubuntu Next bits.
 They have a Plasma Look and Feel module in there, which Kubuntu might want to include.
 It'll really be up to the flavor. Sure, we can install common components, like the checkbox module, etc.
 But regardless, I think that this will make all of our lives exponentially easier because when we want a change in the installer, we can just do it.
 +100
 Probably not for the LTS release, of course
 Pffft, Lubuntu Next is shipping it 😉
 I personally trust the stability because we're not the only ones using it.
 That's also the end goal; I had a long conversation with mariogrip last night about how we both think the Qt-based projects in Ubuntu should have common ground. A common channel, a common place. That way, we can work together on projects like this, and have 2+ flavors adopting this stuff.
 Anything we can centralize so we can divide and conquer as one united Ubuntu, I would like to do that.
 @nggraham fixed: T7943
 or should be fixed now.
 I'll work on the other task later tonight.
 Falkon, for example, is something that I can totally see us putting under that umbrella. Lubuntu Next ships it, Kubuntu will ship it, and I'm pretty sure I can convince UBPorts + Unity 8 as well.  … Calamares is another thing that we can centralize.  … Etc. Etc. Etc.  … But I certainly think that working together and minimizing duplication where possible will not only drive productivity, but will drive more adoption (beca
 agreed.
 @ahoneybun, Thanks! Go ahead and close the task, and I'll just re-open it if something's still not right
 On a Kubuntu-specific note, I think we should get a lot more involved with Debian in respect to development. Kubuntu is the most distant flavor from Debian in Ubuntu, and while it used to be that way because Kubuntu was much, much faster, and I do expect us to have to do things in Kubuntu and not Debian due to speed or something like that, I think that we should try to minimize duplication as much as possible to build a strong
 For example, I like the stuff y'all are working on with the theming. I think that's a wonderful idea. I really think that's the sort of thing we need more of, and if we heavily reduce Debian deltas, that's what we'll be able to do more often, and better quality. Why? We won't be hung up on doing the normal, old, boring tasks that are waiting on Debian.
 Er, rather, we won't be hung up on doing the boring, old tasks that we can do WITH Debian.
 strongly agree
 duplication and fragmentation are the big killers in the inherently resource constrained Linux world. Nothing gets the attention it needs to thrive
 Right.
 Minimizing that is my goal.
 mine too
 Well, it should be OUR goal
 indeed
 We should have strong relationships with Debian and Neon, sharing code bidirectionally with both.
 Currently I'm mostly working on it from the upstream side, getting everyone to want to use KDE Plasma
 but the distro side is also equally important
 And I honestly think that's great.
 If we are just going to be debian KDE with a few ribbins tied on, I'll go to Neon.
 @acheronuk, What's the point with duplication of a bunch of work?
 Look at every other flavor. If you want to look at it fundamentally, yeah, they're just Debian with bells and whistles. But that's what Ubuntu *is*
 Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian
 Debian is an awful place to work on kde packaging
 @Santa, I disagree, their packaging standards aren't bad in my experience working with them.
[21:10] <valorie> acheronuk: https://i.imgur.com/NnqIaLP.png - \o/
 They didn't even packaged Frameworks and Plasma 5, they just had to reuse kubuntu's packaging
 Debian in general feels like it's 30 years behind the times — behind ALL times. I mean, they don't even have a real bug tracker!
 And person in charge of packaging kde is the worst kde packager I have seen in many years
 And they don't have ppa's
 @Santa, Maybe that's because Kubuntu at that time was extremely fast. That's why there were deltas.
 @Santa, I disagree.
 @Santa, That's very easy to solve.
 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390527 … I also tested and confirmed Ctrl+H in all mentioned plus Pantheon Files, Solus Files and PCManFM.
 @tsimonq2, I did that back in the days when I was working on Debian, Simon
 @MichaelTun, Qt or GTK?
 @Santa, And? I'm working in Debian nowadays, and things have gotten easier.
 And they have a bunch of stubborn mules who killed the team repository
 @tsimonq2, tested GTK PCManFM but I doubt Qt would be different
 @MichaelTun, Thanks!
 @Santa, No, they're not stubborn.
 because it was better to do "direct upload to experimental in sid"
 I enjoy working with them.
 @MichaelTun, It actually might be, can you please look?
 @tsimonq2, because they don't hinder your work
 @Santa, What are you saying here?
 @Santa, They don't because I push.
 I get things done.
 @tsimonq2, They don't because they don't want
 maybe later, about to go to a meeting but it doesnt change anything. Even if it was different the standard in Linux is basically Ctrl+H so still relevant to my report
 @tsimonq2, As well as I did
[21:15] <blaze> @Santa http://debomatic-amd64.debian.net/
 @Santa, Maybe you've had different experiences than I. But if you consistently contribute, then they're reasonable people to work with.
 @tsimonq2, that the team repository was killed because sune and lisandro wanted
 @Santa, That's false. Everything is on Salsa now.
 Well, false NOWADAYS
 And Debian, much like Ubuntu, is a meritocracy. The people who do the work get the say.
 No Simon
 It's like Ubuntu, a place where those who have the nobiliary titles decide
 I use to do most of the kde packaging work on Debian back in the days
 Still the decisions were made by those having the privilege of uploading packages
 either you do as you are told or you don't get your packages uploaded
 And regarding the current kde packaging maintainer competence:
 https://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=5644.0
 Projects evolve and things change. I don't want one person's allegedly poor interactions with our upstream, which they are BTW, to hinder Kubuntu's growth as a project.
 he is, by far, the most incompetent kde packager I have seen in my life packaging
 @tsimonq2, I'm not hindering a single thing, If you wan't to collaborate with debian, fine, but please respect Kubuntu's INDEPENDENCE. If you do that we will be fine.
 I don't want, for instance, to make mandatory to maitain packages in their alioth.
 And also debian is not our upstream, KDE is.
 They didn't even packaged frameworks and plasma 5, they reused kubuntu's. And they made the mess explained in the siduction forum thread
 Also note that the KDE team is not the only problem in Debian
 @Santa, Kubuntu is a part of Ubuntu. Like it or not, Debian is our upstream. In order to get acceptance from Ubuntu, even if we only partly derive from them, we need to have good collaboration, like the rest of Ubuntu.
 @Santa, Alioth is dead, replaced by Salsa
 There's also their slow NEW queue, their freezes for releases, their unneccesarily painful way to accept new members, the power abuse by sponsors, their "exclusive" maintainer ship of packages and probably more.
 @tsimonq2, Whatever
 @tsimonq2, KDE is our upstream.
 hey @MichaelTun, https://phabricator.kde.org/D10558
 I wouldn't change what is displayed but I don't care either if this shortcut becomes the standard
 17.12.3. Kool. that will go into bionic then, if I can get moving and sort 17.12 apps before the freeze
 that is what I plan, anyway
 since it already is the standard, I think it should be what's featured in the menu
 besides, shortcuts that use ctrl are nicer to show in the menu than shortcuts that use alt
 so Kubuntu 18.04 won't get KDE Apps 18.04?
 @nggraham, Works for me
 as you can see, the patch is pretty trivial
 @nggraham, no, as 18.04.0 apps is released 6 days before bionic will be. not a hope in hell
 this is the kind of change I cut my teeth on when I was just getting started with KDE development
 ;)
 @acheronuk, ah, such a shame, since their version numbers even match
 I would not be happy shipping a .0 anyway. but it's waaaaaaaay too late
 They always share month and year version numbers
 I understand. KDE Apps 17.12.x has gotten a ridiculous amount of polish and bugfixing anyway
 yes. may try building them in the next few days. they seem good in our CI so far, but need proper QA builds to test more.
 Calm down Debian / kubuntu people. Btw, a distro cannot be the upstream as usually they patch the applications without knowledge. As a reminder look for OpenSSL  Debian mess.
 Upstream should always be the projects the distro works with.
 @ahoneybun, OK, so I figured out why OMG said (falsely, btw) that Desktop is moving to subiquity. Look at the commit messages on the MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/minimal-package-list/+merge/337700 … Joey misinterpreted "Note that this is a short-term solution. When moving to subiquity, we'll have livefs mounts on top of each other to provide this functionality. This is why we went to that intermediate
 The squeaky wheel gets the grease, eh? https://phabricator.kde.org/D10563
 @nggraham, to master?
 it hasn't been pushed yet; let me see if he'll land it on 5.12.x
 it he will I can drop a patch. always good!
 conservatively such a UI should probably be for 5.13, but who knows
 I'd consider this a bugfix; it was always *supposed to* to on the top-right anyway
 ok. it's a bugfix.... it's a bugfix..... it's a bugfix....
 honest, guv
 heh
 here's how we solve the double wifi pop-up issue in the live session: https://phabricator.kde.org/T7981
 ooooh this is not good. I just upgraded my Kubuntu 17.10 machine from Plasma 5.12 to 5.12.1, and now there's something wrong with KIO. Everything pertaining to Dolphin and file open/save dialogs shows the following error message: … Unable to create io-slave. klauncher said: Error loading '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/kf5/kio/file.so'.
 Is there any debugging that folks would like me to do before I compile and deploy KIO from source?
 Does the file exist?
 yep
 looks like it's a few days old though. Maybe KIO needed to get updated but didn't?
 I'm not sure.
 Have you tried no-change rebuilding it locally or in a PPA?
 building KIO from source and deploying locally fixes the problem
 maybe once I'm feeling adventurous, I'll reinstall the bad KIO version in the Kubuntu repo to see what's up
[23:36] <mparillo> I wonder if you have done some customization of your 17.10 machine. I grabbed a clean 17.10 VM with kubuntu backports, upgraded to Plasma 5.12.1, and rebooted. I open dolphin, and click on /etc/hosts, and I can see the file in kate. 
 Certainly so; this is my personal machine that I'm talking about
[23:37] <mparillo> I can save as using kate to $HOME, and to my desktop
 and FWIW, my wife upgraded her Kubuntu 17.10 from 5.12 to 5.12.1 today without a hiccup
[23:37] <mparillo> And I can click on it on my desktop and it opens normally
[23:39] <mparillo> Then when I am in konsole, I can rm Desktop/hosts and it disappears from my desktop.
[23:40] <mparillo> Your wife and I must keep things pretty close to defaults.
 I have been known to occasionally build stuff from source and deploy it to / on this machine, so I'm not about to scream bloody murder over it 😉
[23:43] <mparillo> At least you admit it. I have watched in the support channel, people expect support and the helpers get frustrated, and I bet it is because the people have problems because they did something unusual and do not want to admit it, or do not even know that blindly cutting and pasting from random websites can cause strange things.
 heh, it's so true