[00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [00:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_extra-cmake-modules build #71: FIXED in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_extra-cmake-modules/71/ [00:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_merger build #1060: SUCCESS in 6 min 1 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_merger/1060/ [00:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_prison build #96: FAILURE in 9 min 41 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_prison/96/ [00:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kfilemetadata build #69: FAILURE in 12 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kfilemetadata/69/ [00:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #134: STILL FAILING in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/134/ [00:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_babe build #1: FAILURE in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_babe/1/ [00:42] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdecoration build #68: STILL UNSTABLE in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdecoration/68/ [00:43] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kontactinterface build #83: STILL FAILING in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kontactinterface/83/ [00:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kamoso build #68: STILL FAILING in 14 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kamoso/68/ [00:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ksystemlog build #82: FAILURE in 28 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ksystemlog/82/ [00:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ruqola build #135: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ruqola/135/ [00:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kamoso build #69: STILL FAILING in 5 min 47 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kamoso/69/ [00:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_falkon build #17: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_falkon/17/ [00:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdenetwork-filesharing build #34: STILL UNSTABLE in 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdenetwork-filesharing/34/ [00:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ksystemlog build #83: STILL FAILING in 6 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ksystemlog/83/ [01:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_falkon build #106: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_falkon/106/ [01:08] is mpd preconfigured in Kubuntu since Cantata is default now? [01:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_babe build #2: STILL FAILING in 28 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_babe/2/ [01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kontactinterface build #84: STILL FAILING in 27 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kontactinterface/84/ [01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kfilemetadata build #70: FIXED in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kfilemetadata/70/ [01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [01:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_prison build #97: FIXED in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_prison/97/ [01:37] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_latte-dock build #101: FAILURE in 8 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_latte-dock/101/ [01:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_latte-dock build #84: FAILURE in 10 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_latte-dock/84/ [01:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_latte-dock build #102: STILL FAILING in 4 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_latte-dock/102/ [01:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_latte-dock build #85: STILL FAILING in 4 min 38 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_latte-dock/85/ [01:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_peruse build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_peruse/65/ [01:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_krita build #90: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_krita/90/ [01:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ark build #96: STILL UNSTABLE in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ark/96/ [02:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-mime build #49: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-mime/49/ [02:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmbox build #68: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmbox/68/ [02:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kstars build #93: STILL UNSTABLE in 51 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kstars/93/ [02:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalarmcal build #61: STILL FAILING in 4 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalarmcal/61/ [02:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalarmcal build #62: STILL FAILING in 3 min 38 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalarmcal/62/ [02:42] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalzium build #66: STILL UNSTABLE in 48 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalzium/66/ [02:43] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-mime build #50: STILL FAILING in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-mime/50/ [02:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_amarok build #71: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 5 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_amarok/71/ [02:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmbox build #69: STILL FAILING in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmbox/69/ [02:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_marble build #75: FAILURE in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_marble/75/ [03:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_marble build #31: FAILURE in 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_marble/31/ [03:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kidentitymanagement build #68: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kidentitymanagement/68/ [03:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_marble build #76: STILL FAILING in 5 min 15 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_marble/76/ [03:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-contacts build #115: STILL FAILING in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-contacts/115/ [03:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_marble build #32: STILL FAILING in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_marble/32/ [03:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-contacts build #116: STILL FAILING in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-contacts/116/ [03:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kidentitymanagement build #69: STILL FAILING in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kidentitymanagement/69/ [03:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mailimporter build #67: FAILURE in 1 min 3 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mailimporter/67/ [03:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime build #97: STILL FAILING in 14 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime/97/ [03:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [03:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mailimporter build #68: FIXED in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mailimporter/68/ [03:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktnef build #54: STILL FAILING in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktnef/54/ === himcesjf_ is now known as him-cesjf [04:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime build #98: STILL FAILING in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime/98/ [04:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktnef build #55: STILL FAILING in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktnef/55/ [04:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmail build #122: STILL FAILING in 4 min 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmail/122/ [04:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #140: FAILURE in 29 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/140/ [04:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmail build #123: STILL FAILING in 5 min 20 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmail/123/ [04:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace build #141: STILL FAILING in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_plasma-workspace/141/ [04:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_baloo build #65: FAILURE in 1 min 13 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_baloo/65/ [05:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-calendar build #67: STILL FAILING in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-calendar/67/ [05:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [05:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_baloo build #66: FIXED in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_baloo/66/ [05:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-calendar build #68: STILL FAILING in 14 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-calendar/68/ [05:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #161: STILL FAILING in 29 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/161/ [06:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #162: STILL FAILING in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/162/ [06:22] or [06:22] whoops [06:24] @MichaelTun I wish! [06:24] I voted for Cantata and now wish I had vetoed it instead [06:25] why? [06:26] because I could never get it to work [06:26] not one tune played === himcesjf_ is now known as him-cesjf [06:26] amarok still works though [06:26] so whatever [06:26] weird. works nicely here [06:26] but not a very nice experience for our users [06:28] if mpd is not setup by default then Cantata should NOT be the default. The only way it should be default if mpd is preconfigured. That is the #1 reason people say they dont use Cantata. Honestly, I agree with that because that is why I dont use it. Yes, I can setup mpd but I dont care enough to do it. [06:30] Qmmp should be the default music player for Kubuntu and it should be preconfigured to be fully compatible with Plasma which it totally can be. :) (default sucks though) [06:31] I'd stay away from Amarok to be honest because it's well . . . it's Amarok [06:31] heh -- I started on the amarok team [06:32] and like the concept [06:32] I get that not everybody cares about the band, etc. [06:32] Amarok used to be great like 1.4 was awesome . . . then slowly it became something I have no desire to touch again [06:32] cantata sets up mpd on 1st run. its not appropriate to pre-configure it [06:33] @michaeltun -- tastes differ! [06:33] anyway, if it works for most, OK [06:34] that requires the user to set it up then and to know what they are doing with setting it up. If this were Arch or something I'd be fine with that but since it is Kubuntu and meant to be user-friendly. Default is King and that is why it is important. [06:34] when elisa is finally released we'll have to re-evaluate anyway [06:35] Elisa and Babe are pretty far away though. They both look very nice but they are both still very much beta [06:35] yup [06:35] and it's possible the new amarok will be released in time to evaluate IT [06:36] poor Michael Tun [06:36] lol [06:36] if the new Amarok has a default of a freaking wiki in it then I vote "Ama-no" [06:37] valorie: evaluate for what? [06:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [06:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_marble build #77: FIXED in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_marble/77/ === doko_ is now known as doko [06:39] for default music application [06:40] if we have a good KDE kf5 option [06:40] in 18.10 I suppose yes. if they can make it not krap as well as port it [06:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [06:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_marble build #33: FIXED in 35 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_marble/33/ [06:41] right [06:42] certainly not making changes now, except bugfixes [06:42] tried the kf5 port yesterday, and was not too impressed [06:43] context pane didn't load for a start [06:43] I get the idea it is just a raw port for now [06:43] is the feature freeze in lock in general or was that just for the beta? [06:43] no work on the UX etc. [06:43] yet [06:44] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze [06:44] they are considering using kirigami for instance [06:44] until release ^ [06:44] @valorie, Kirigami would be interesting [06:45] ok better question . . . are the setting improvements that I suggested blocked with this freeze? [06:45] I noticed many arent done so I was wondering if they cant be done now or selected not to be done [06:46] no, they are not blocked [06:46] ok sweet [06:54] @MichaelTun the change to disable kalarm autostart went in a few hrs before the zesty RC images spun! 😮 [06:55] not that I plan to leave it that late :P [06:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kcalcore build #99: STILL FAILING in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kcalcore/99/ [07:00] @acheronuk, oh ok cool. I've never tried kalarm before but there was talks about merging kalarm, ktimer, kteatime, kronometer, etc into a single app that does it all. [07:01] I use KTeaTime for something completely different for it's purpose and I use Kronometer for doing live streams and podcasts. :) [07:01] @MichaelTun, It was autostarting akonadi, which was a pain just for that [07:01] @acheronuk, oh wow, yea no thanks [07:02] so now it doesn't run unless you choose to use a PIM app and it gets set up by that [07:11] https://phabricator.kde.org/T7978#128442 @acheronuk does this mean this is done now? [07:13] @MichaelTun sorry. no. that is a bit misleading. I was testing what files needed to change by making my ~/.config/ a git repo, and git diffing what changed when I altered settings [07:13] that is the output for my ref [07:14] oh ok that makes sense then. This is not a critical change but I think it would be a nice polish change [07:17] @MichaelTun, it's one that might be easiest with a kubuntu look and feel config [07:20] @acheronuk, can a L&F theme be applied by default during install? [07:21] yes [07:21] sounds good then :) [07:21] also if that config solves the menu problem that be nice [07:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kcalcore build #100: STILL FAILING in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kcalcore/100/ [07:22] would also mean people could revert to default kde look and feel, where stick defaults would go back [07:23] on setting changes a look-and-feel supports, anyway [07:23] that sounds like a great option for those who dont like change [07:23] (Calamares...) [07:24] Lol [07:24] I need to make all the changes in a VM, generate a custom look and feel, as see what settings it picks up in its config [07:25] also make a kubuntu default panel template [07:26] s/make/finish [07:26] 😎👍❤️ [07:28] wtf is spice-vdagent? @tsimonq2 === nameless is now known as Guest3045 [07:34] @acheronuk, No clue [07:34] Spice is the graphics client for QEMU iirc [07:35] turns up in a refresh of my meta! [07:35] * Added spice-vdagent to desktop [07:35] oh. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2165 [07:37] When was that proposed to all flavors? [07:37] I mean, the change seems fine, but it seems wrong that this is the first I'm hearing about it. [07:37] I've not seen anything about it [07:38] I'll have to ask after I sleep === nameless is now known as Guest29827 [07:39] trying lubuntu meta for teh hell of it [07:39] Ack === himcesjf_ is now known as him-cesjf [10:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kio build #93: FAILURE in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kio/93/ [10:52] hiyas all [11:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [11:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kio build #94: FIXED in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kio/94/ [12:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Starting build #14 for job iso_bionic_stable_amd64 (previous build: SUCCESS) [12:29] cyphermox: hi. did you have a chance to look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~rikmills/ubiquity/bug1447144/+merge/341228 [12:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project iso_bionic_stable_amd64 build #14: SUCCESS in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/iso_bionic_stable_amd64/14/ [12:45] @nggraham you about? can you test an iso for the wifi bug? [12:45] http://kci.pangea.pub/images/iso_bionic_stable_amd64/current/ [12:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2110: SUCCESS in 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2110/ [12:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2110: SUCCESS in 1 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2110/ [12:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2110: SUCCESS in 3 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2110/ [13:05] acheronuk: not yet, I will look today [13:05] cyphermox: thanks :) [13:05] actually I'm wondering if it wouldn't be just better to grep for something like login=oem, since one might edit the file manually and forget to remove the comment [13:06] you know, whatever the entry is when oem is still set [13:06] cyphermox: I did do that at 1st, but did belt and braces in case someone was dumb enough to put oem as the new user [13:07] hrm.. I guess [13:08] cyphermox: I'm not overly fussed if you want to simplify [13:23] @acheronuk, yes, later today [13:23] this guy? http://kci.pangea.pub/images/iso_bionic_stable_amd64/current/kubuntu-ci-stable-bionic-amd64.iso [13:24] bah, I think that's a good way to handle it [13:25] @nggraham, yep [13:27] @nggraham if you have the BW to spare for a iso download that is [13:45] I do, I can try later [13:46] thanks. the boot theme is a bit off on those isos, so don't worry about that [15:16] the discussion of single-click vs double-click is very interesting to me since it is surprising that anyone would be so much on the side of single-click that they would fight it from being changed to benefit new users. [15:16] referring to the KDE phab discussion [15:16] hopefully Kubuntu can show them the way. :) [15:17] actually I think if Kubuntu were to do this it would be interesting to see what reactions users have comparing Kubuntu vs Neon [15:17] @MichaelTun - most tutorials on kde post install have a section dedicated to make it two clicks. [15:17] at least the ones in pt_NR [15:17] BR [15:17] @tomazcanabrava, lol exactly! [15:19] mine is one - click because I had to learn and I didn't mind testing it for a while [15:20] but there's still places where it's really bad, for instance selecting files on dolphin, sometimes I try to click on the '+' at the toplevel of the icon, and miss it by a pixel, [15:20] then okular opens with a really huge pdf that I actually wanted to delete. [15:20] single-click is better in many ways but default expectation is way more important in my opinion than what is technically superior or not. :) [15:21] @tomazcanabrava, yea that is problematic. I also think the plus/minus buttons are needlessly confusing as well when it should just be a checkbox like in Windows. [15:21] +1. if we have the hability to change it and the power user can always fine tune, but the default should not be for the power user. [15:22] *specially* because a lot of newcommers think that they are power users and destroy the system. (/me been there, done that) [15:22] @tomazcanabrava, exactly, which is why I am so surprised that people on phabricator are so in favor of single click . . . it's not about what is better to use but what is better for new users. [15:23] @tomazcanabrava, lol there is even a meme about that in the Linux community. "KDE is so customizable but don't customize too much or you'll break it . . . too bad the defaults are so bad they force you to customize on day one" [15:31] A couple of times my configuration has gotten accidentally switched to single-click. I find it rather infuriating, always executing things I didn't mean to execute and navigating when I meant to select. [15:34] @mamarley, I think that is the reaction most people have. @tomazcanabrava gave me an idea to add to the phabricator of people posting on the internet about how to change it or why they dont like it. [15:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2111: SUCCESS in 48 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2111/ [15:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2111: SUCCESS in 1 min 7 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2111/ [15:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #2111: SUCCESS in 3 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/2111/ [15:51] * BluesKaj loves single click, probly due to my lazy nature :-) [15:51] single click vs double click is an endless debate in general. What is your opinion of what should be default? [15:52] "least surprise for the newcommer" [16:19] Coming from Windows, people would probably be expecting double-click. I'm not sure what Macs do. [16:20] windows can single click if one sets it [16:24] mac is double-click [16:24] the thing is, double-click does legitimately heva major usability problems that all desktop OSs have been hauling forwards for 30 years [16:24] double-clicking is legitimately really hard for a lot of people [16:24] and for many others, it's never obvious what needs to be double-clicked and what needs to be single-clicked [16:25] you see for example people double-clicking launchers and toolbar icons *all the time* out of this confusion [16:25] single-click solves all that... at the cost of other issues. The question is, is it worth it? And if not, can it be made worth it? And regardless, what's a good setting *today*? [16:27] @nggraham, yes but doing so has no impact in most cases. There are people who double click links on websites, doesn't matter because the same outcome occurs. [16:28] nggraham: And you also get people accidentally executing things they didn't mean to execute and navigating when they meant to select with single-click. [16:28] @nggraham, I dont think single click is worth solving those issues because those issues are not experienced by the majority. I do think it needs to be an option but not the default choice. … KDE should also worry about accessibility more so than it currently does. [16:28] Especially trying to select a single item, you have to press Ctrl to make that work. [16:29] as I stated earlier, here is my post showing a variety of complaints on the single-click default over the years. https://phabricator.kde.org/T8187#132416 … how many people complain about double-click default to make tutorials, forum posts, subreddit posts, etc? Not many. :) [16:30] I do agree with you guys, but it's important to acknowledge other opinions and the legitimate case that can be made for the status quo [16:31] we strengthen our own case if we can understand and fluently refute the opposing argument [16:33] I agree that we shouldnt dismiss the opinions of others but this is a rare exception where the expectation is too great while the benefit and improvement is too small to bother with trying to change expectations. … If we were having this debate in 1995 then I'd have no issue with trying it out. However, it's been over 20 years of double-click as default ingrained into desktop computing paradigm. The debate should have been [16:33] over years ago in my opinion. [16:34] (still +1 on changing it in Kubuntu and then gauging user feedback) [16:35] @nggraham, I don't think Neon would change it unless default changed so I am very interested to see the reactions when Kubuntu changes it === nameless is now known as Guest39187 [17:45] anyone else able to test that iso wifi bug with my modified image? [17:45] I plan to later today; can't right now as I'm at work [17:45] @nggraham, Yeah. I meant apart from you :) [17:46] if I'm going to propose a change to a package in 'main', I want as much cooberations as possible === nameless is now known as Guest97455 [17:50] @acheronuk, I dont know what needs to be tested but I would if explained what to do. :) [17:51] I'll have to do it on my secondary "enterprise" laptop that is kind of old so not sure how useful that info would be [17:51] This iso needs testing: http://kci.pangea.pub/images/iso_bionic_stable_amd64/current/kubuntu-ci-stable-bionic-amd64.iso [17:52] To see if the changes in casper in that fix the double password request for secured wifi in the live session [17:52] 1. boot to live session with image … 2. click on wifi icon in system tray … 3. click "Connect" for a wifi network that has a lock icon on it … 4. enter your password into the text field in the plasmoid there … Question: Does a window immediately pop up asking for your password again? [17:53] specifically connecting to networks shown with a padlock [17:53] oh I see and thanks will do [17:53] yay [17:54] I think I actually saw that bug on my installed system a while back, but I just thought I had fatfingered my password. [17:56] @nggraham I have tried renabling kwallet, but disabling it again with a config file. which plasma-nm has fallback code to cope with. … Instead of breaking kwallet by removing it's service files, which plasma-nm doesn't know has happened, and thinks it should be working. [17:56] mmmmm [17:57] interesting, maybe that was part of our problem all along [17:59] I think it was. hence the fixes so far only worked partially or not at all [17:59] kwallet leaving me alone would be so nice. :) [17:59] This is the live session for now [18:00] is there a default email client in Kubuntu? If so and it is KMail, could it not be? :) [18:01] thinking about dropping it for 18.10. possibly [18:04] @acheronuk, http://s.quickmeme.com/img/be/be73ebe93046aca825637eefdb3ff07ffc3cc2d9a7cbab061b122fa5ecc3e4a0.jpg [18:19] I mean I dont actually care because I remove it anyway but I think it is a negative towards Kubuntu's reputation as being the "easy to use/new user Plasma" distro. [18:21] when they hurry up with a good kde alternative, it will make that choice easier :/ [18:48] @acheronuk, agreed . . . Kube needs to hurry :) [19:06] I am looking forward to Kube as well. I'm using Thunderbird right now, but it seems to have become rather stagnant as of late. [19:06] And I won't install Kmail because Akonadi. [19:16] the kube package available ? [19:19] no. it's still a 'tech preview' [19:21] :) [19:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [19:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_latte-dock build #86: FIXED in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_latte-dock/86/ [19:22] so still stick to kmail / thunderbird while waiting for it to be GA [19:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [19:23] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_latte-dock build #103: FIXED in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_latte-dock/103/ [19:56] @nggraham FW 5.44 FFe accepted. I will upload to bionic shortly [20:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Starting build #126 for job mgmt_pause_integration (previous build: ABORTED) [20:29] @nggraham thinking of posting the following comment to phabricator but it might be a bit too heavy so feedback please. … —------— … I think the experiment of single-click by default has had enough time that if it were to have changed the expectations of users then it would have already done it. … KDE/Plasma has had single-click as default for over a decade and the topic has been brought up on so many occasions and h [20:29] the initial experience of so many people that it has motivated tutorials and videos to change it. It has also made it a focal point of "things to do after installing Plasma" as well as a staple citation for a reason people give for why they stopped using Plasma. I am not saying people leave because of it but it is one of the factors that creates a "if I have to change something so essential, what else will I have to change" reaction. … [20:29] I'll be open about something . . . I had this initial reaction towards Plasma many years ago. I tried it and had to change so much stuff to get it to a state where I was happy to start using it that I just decided to give up on it. It wasn't until many conversations with long-time Plasma fans that I finally decided to just ignore all of the paper cuts and try to see what made Plasma so great to them. I have been using Plasma since I made [20:29] that decision to fully try it. However, I think most people aren't willing to ignore things that create a feeling of inevitable customizations. [20:30] not too heavy, go ahead and do it, I say [20:31] ok cool done . . . you read fast [20:33] I can't say I disagree with anything you wrote [20:33] so @acheronuk, are we changing this in Kubuntu, or are we still undecided? [20:36] @nggraham, I intend to unless someone (KC) forces me not to [20:36] haha [20:36] I'll back you up [20:38] SWEET [20:40] why would the KC weigh in on this? [20:40] I have no strong feelings on either side, for my part [20:41] I use Dolphin quite a bit so double-click is better for me after using single for many years [20:41] if double is better for new users then go for it [20:41] @valorie, why would anyone care if it was changed in the first place to benefit new user expectation? yet for some reason it is being debated in phabricator . . . 🤦‍♂️ [20:42] it is being debated because Henrik senses (correctly) that I plan to use Kubuntu's experiencing changing this setting to push for an upstream change, which he opposes [20:42] I know that is not Kubuntu related but still it hurts my brain that the debate even needs to exist [20:42] it's a problem when people forget that they are not defending positions, but rather thinking together [20:42] he shouldnt oppose it is my point .. . it makes no sense to oppose it [20:43] valorie: I don't expect KC would have strong enough feelings. I was just covering my ass with that remark [20:43] man the machine guns and protect the position, boys! [20:43] that's what comes out far too often [20:43] @valorie, lol [20:44] * valorie covers acheronuk's ass with spitballs [20:44] so true . . . sad but true [20:44] shot out of machine guns [20:44] lol [20:45] we get passionate because we believe our view best approximates either the platonic ideal, or what our users would prefer (depending on our personalities) [20:45] if it were possible to do actual user and usability testing, we could get hard answers instead of just spitballing [20:46] which would de-militarize these kinds of discussions [20:46] KDE can't have it both ways. that we are not their (unofficial ref distro), and object to changing our defaults [20:46] we could say, "our research shows that approach X results in users being able to perform the task 43% of the time, after an average of 57 seconds for those who have succeeded; with approach Y, it's 79% and 20 seconds" [20:47] Upstream KDE is objecting to Kubuntu changing *our* defaults? [20:47] :/ [20:47] C'moooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn [20:47] only one guy, but yes [20:47] @nggraham, Ubuntu might have a solution for that data :) [20:47] Ah ok [20:47] I mean, RHEL adds a task manager and a start menu to GNOME for pete's sake [20:48] @nggraham, well Red Hat funds GNOME so they can ignore whatever GNOME does anyway lol [20:48] when you provide the money they cant really complain much lol [20:49] RHEL is really, really good. We need to aspire to that level of awesome in the KDE world IMHO [20:49] also as I said earlier, if I implement all the changes I can via a "Kubuntu look-and-feel package", then I will be leaving the stock defaults intact ;) [20:49] which people could switch back to in a few clicks [20:49] +1 [20:50] of course nobody will because most users don't care, which is fine, and why we have our own set of defaults [20:50] yup [20:50] @acheronuk, sneaky sneaky :) [20:50] this is why we love our Rik [20:57] (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/mjYP1R2x/file_5165.mp4 [20:57] stickers work in IRC iirc but do gifs? [20:58] it downloads and plays when I click the play arrow [20:58] ahh thats not bad [21:00] so I mentioned this to Rik on my live stream but forgot to mention it here. [21:01] I'd like to make a promo video for Kubuntu 18.04 like I do for KDE Plasma. Especially with all the new stuff in Kubuntu coming . . . especially with all the UX stuff being fixed. I can hype this so well. :) [21:08] on the plus side, after reading more of this debate, it's great to see KDE folks weighing in on Kubuntu's process here [21:08] kudos for everybody engaging [21:16] nice to see them acknowledge us as a heavyweight, too :) [21:25] @MichaelTun, Teal'c works everywhere :) [21:35] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/ygi6XXn3/file_5166.webp [22:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_kdepim-addons build #541: FAILURE in 6.9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_kdepim-addons/541/ [22:13] ok, thought for awhile and commented on Nate's second thread [22:14] and now, outside to the sunlight! [22:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_spectacle build #630: FAILURE in 6.3 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_spectacle/630/ [22:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [22:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_spectacle build #631: FIXED in 12 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_spectacle/631/ [22:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [22:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_kdepim-addons build #542: FIXED in 13 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_kdepim-addons/542/ [22:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_pause_integration build #126: ABORTED in 2 hr 16 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_pause_integration/126/ [22:50] Sun-whatnow? [23:20] I know! [23:20]