[01:07] <Guest48453> einar77
[01:08] <daftykins> that looks a lot like a password
[01:09] <Guest48453> Whoiseinar77
[01:10] <daftykins> that's not how a command looks
[09:17] <SuperMatt> what's new pussycats?
[09:28] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[10:05] <SuperMatt> I dun some good code this weekend
[10:07] <brobostigon> o/
[10:07] <SuperMatt> https://imgur.com/xs8TqqY - I am genuinely surprised how fast this is
[10:15] <SuperMatt> hah, I just noticed the mild swears in the list of 4 and 5 letter words
[10:24] <foobarry> have a "new" PC but annoyingly 1 month before LTS release
[10:24] <foobarry> means i will likely be reinstalling in a couple of months
[10:25] <foobarry> and its my work PC. my current work pc hasnt been reinstalled in 4-5 years
[10:26] <SuperMatt> Install 17.10 for now and upgrade to 18.04 in a month
[10:26] <SuperMatt> 17.10 is solid
[10:27] <Nafallo> *shrugs* help beta test 18.04?
[10:27] <Nafallo> feature freeze is already in effect
[10:27] <SuperMatt> I want to switch to 18.04, but it doesn't even have firefox 58 yet
[10:28] <SuperMatt> Considering 59 is out this week (hopefully with csd), I don't want to install 18.04 yet
[10:41] <foobarry> gonna beta
[10:44] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[11:33] <foobarry> do i have to disable secure boot to install it?
[11:37] <TJ-> foobarry: the installers have a signed shimx64.efi so S.B. should be fine
[11:39] <foobarry> yeah i'm struggling here
[11:39] <foobarry> wonder if beta is different
[11:45] <foobarry> hmm a release version works ok
[11:47] <TJ-> foobarry: As far as I know the cd-image builders use the same (signed) GRUB packages
[12:03] <foobarry> "there is no regular Ubuntu 18.04 Beta 1 release. " ah
[12:04] <foobarry> "Ubuntu proper only participates in the second round of beta testing"
[12:13] <foobarry> looks like i'm on budgie for a month :(
[12:52] <SuperMatt> Install 17.10 then upgrade
[13:03] <TJ-> foobarry: You can install from another flavour then just "sudo apt install gnome-desktop" or whatever
[13:18] <SuperMatt> well, you'd want to do ubuntu-desktop
[13:18] <SuperMatt> because the gnome-session doesn't give you the same stuff as the ubuntu-session
[13:19] <TJ-> ahh, yes. You can tell I don't use either of those :)
[13:27] <SuperMatt> I thoroughly enjoy using the ubuntu version of gnome.
[13:27] <SuperMatt> stock gnome is good, but ubuntu's version is just that tiny bit better
[13:29] <TJ-> Anything Unity/Gnome related has been awful for my config, I abandonded it about 6 years ago
[13:31] <SuperMatt> OOI, why would that be?
[13:32] <TJ-> multi-GPU, multi-monitor
[13:39] <SuperMatt> Ah, I have multi monitor which works fine with gnome, but I don't have multigpu
[13:40] <TJ-> I've got 6 monitors over 3 GPUs
[13:40] <SuperMatt> geez
[13:40] <SuperMatt> I only have 2 monitors
[13:40] <TJ-> I use 4 X sessions too
[14:38] <foobarry> 17.10 feels wrong when we're so close to new release :D
[14:39] <zmoylan-pi> so young... when you're older you always want an old (warts and all but we know what they are) distro... :-)
[14:40] <foobarry> i am older...and i still have 14.04 on my work machine
[14:41] <foobarry> which is why its annoying being in limbo for another month until i can install a long term desktop on my new machine
[14:50] <SuperMatt> Way I see things is that because most of my work is done via browser or terminal sshed into another box, it doesn't matter what I run on my desktop as long as I like it
[14:55] <Seeker`> pfft, 5.10 is the way to go
[14:55] <Seeker`> can't remember if it was that or 5.04 I started with
[14:56] <foobarry> i was 4.10/5.04 era
[14:57] <foobarry> just desperate after debian dselect and installer ugliness
[14:57] <Seeker`> I came from FC2 or 3
[14:57] <foobarry> yeah. fedora wasn't working well
[14:57] <foobarry> had the same problem
[14:58] <foobarry> dependency issues seemed particualry bad
[14:59] <Seeker`> I think 3 or 4 had bad compatiability issues with my laptop / pc
[15:03] <SuperMatt> moan all you want about fedora core, but we all know the bad says were around the beefy miracle days
[15:04] <SuperMatt> *days
[15:11] <foobarry> but the best name
[15:11] <foobarry> also...bring back wobbly windows!
[15:11] <SuperMatt> true that
[15:12] <SuperMatt> I think the raring days of Ubuntu weren't great too :/
[15:12] <foobarry> remember automatix?
[15:12] <SuperMatt> nope
[15:12] <foobarry> it was an app to make things easier on ubuntu
[15:13] <foobarry> when simple things weren't that easy for all suers
[15:13] <foobarry> however, when the next upgrade came out, the ubuntu forums went mental
[15:13] <foobarry> because automatix did something to break all the buntus
[15:14] <foobarry> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatix_(software)
[15:14] <foobarry> Automatix was not recommended by the Ubuntu development team, which has criticised its content.[2] Some individual Ubuntu developers blamed Automatix 1 for breaking updates from Dapper to Edgy.[3][4] On 2 November 2006 Ubuntu CTO Matt Zimmerman said "I cannot recommend the use of this program, and systems where it has been used cannot be supported with a clean and official upgrade path."[5]
[15:17] <SuperMatt> oh gosh, sounds like a nightmare
[15:17] <SuperMatt> I've pretty much given up on a lot of third party tools.
[15:18] <SuperMatt> there used to be a number of unity tweak tools, but often they wouldn't be updated with the new version of Ubuntu, and so you couldn't get all the tweaks you wanted working
[15:26] <diplo> Automatix was around in the early days, I remember it
[15:26] <diplo> It sucked
[15:26] <foobarry> a partly necessary evil
[15:31] <SuperMatt> How so?
[15:48] <diplo> I guess he means because some things were a pain to do back then and it made things easier
[15:49] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[15:53] <diplo> I still think ubuntu was great back in the 4.10 days, much better than Suse/Redhat
[15:53] <diplo> I was using debian just before then as well, also a pita
[15:54] <SuperMatt> I didn't start linuxing until 8.04, so I don't have much experience of those really early versions
[15:57] <diplo> Still 10 years ago.. :)
[15:59] <SuperMatt> Gosh, yes
[15:59] <SuperMatt> 10 years and 20 versions
[16:00] <diddledan> I started on buntu at 5.10/6.06 era. Before that I was a ricer (gentoo)
[16:15] <SuperMatt> I had dabbled a little with debian on and off in my time
[16:15] <SuperMatt> especially at uni
[16:15] <SuperMatt> which is when you're supposed to play the field a little
[16:15] <SuperMatt> but back then it wasn't really nice enough to use in order to get me hooked
[16:18] <diplo> I started off with AIX and RedHat 7, RH was our mail server and AIX was our ERP system
[16:19] <zmoylan-pi> red hat 4 just as redhat 5 came along...
[16:20] <diplo> Not RHEL zmoylan-pi ?
[16:22] <zmoylan-pi> nah, we were playing with it to learn...
[16:22] <zmoylan-pi> half the fun was finding hardware around the office that people wouldn't miss that was compatible... :-)
[16:25] <diplo> No I mean was it the early version, non EL
[16:25] <diplo> So 97-2000 time ?
[16:26] <zmoylan-pi> downloaded onto umpteen floppies using a 56k modem... yes... :-)
[16:27] <SuperMatt> then curse when one of them can't be read
[16:32] <diplo> hahah. still have a pile here somewhere for aix
[16:35] <zmoylan-pi> then it was a quick shuffle and rewrtie the flp file to a new disk...
[17:09] <m0nkey_> Ah, yes. Download all the Red hat 2.0 floppy images only to find one or more of them are corrupted.
[17:29] <diddledan> pm blames russia: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43377856
[20:57] <DrRoach> Hi is there anyone here that can help me with an issue with mysql?
[20:58] <daftykins> xD
[22:00] <zmoylan-pi> now if it had of been a dbase iii+ problem... :-P
[22:18] <daftykins> (:
[23:23] <Gargoyle> The youth of today! No answer in less than 60s = "Pffft! I'm off..." ;-)
[23:23] <daftykins> doubt it was youth to blame ;)
[23:24] <daftykins> what do you guys make of the situation when users come in and ask a help question, but refuse to explain the scenario or why they want to do the thing they want help with?
[23:24] <daftykins> is it bad of a support person to feel they need to understand the task? to me it's key, but in another channel i'm having expletives hurled at me for it
[23:25] <Gargoyle> Well. If the context helps solve the problem I don't see the issue.
[23:25] <daftykins> *nod*
[23:25] <Gargoyle> I don't think it's bad for you to want to understand the scenario you are trying to help with.
[23:27] <daftykins> it's a little odd for users to refuse to explain, too
[23:27] <Gargoyle> Indeed.
[23:27] <Gargoyle> If they are that sensitive, they'll have to figure out the solution on their own.
[23:28] <Gargoyle> Or figure out a way to explain it in a way they are happy with.
[23:36] <daftykins> such a strange one