[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <philroche> \o
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 15:03:15 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[15:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
[15:03] <slangasek> xnox Odd_Bloke tdaitx bdmurray cyphermox sil2100 rbalint mwhudson fginther slangasek philroche infinity rcj tribaal juliank doko
[15:03] <slangasek> xnox: HELLO
[15:03] <juliank> meeting moved up one hour in europe I think
[15:04] <juliank> IIRC
[15:04] <juliank> maybe we're all confused :D
[15:04] <slangasek> sure, per the calendar :)
[15:04] <bdmurray> I'm not confused about the meeting time, lots of other things though.
[15:06] <slangasek> Odd_Bloke is out today
[15:06] <slangasek> tdaitx said he might miss the meeting
[15:06] <slangasek> bdmurray:
[15:06] <tdaitx> * OpenJDK 9 as default JDK
[15:06] <tdaitx>   - ongoing fixes and rebuilds
[15:06] <tdaitx>   - syncing & waiting updates from debian
[15:06] <tdaitx> (done)
[15:06] <bdmurray> discussion with webops regarding retracer nagios alerts
[15:06] <bdmurray> uploaded software-properties fix for LP: #1693032
[15:06] <bdmurray> uploaded Artful SRUs for (LP: #1690541, LP: #1689668)
[15:06] <bdmurray> developed test case, uploaded fix for LP: #1693038
[15:06] <bdmurray> RU verification of aptdaemon (LP: #1690541, LP: #1689668)
[15:07] <bdmurray> investigation into retracer hangs (LP and ET)
[15:07] <bdmurray> discovered cause of retrace hangs (sandbox & glibc issue)
[15:07] <bdmurray> removed a bunch of core files from swift
[15:07] <bdmurray> updated retracer process clean up job for gdb call
[15:07] <bdmurray> investigation into rsyslog log rotation bug (LP: #940030)
[15:07] <bdmurray> research into how plymouth --ping works (LP: #1705345)
[15:07] <bdmurray> found a way to make plymouth --ping hang
[15:07] <bdmurray> wrote a couple of tools to clean up unnecessary core files
[15:07] <bdmurray> review of https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu-release-upgrader/lp1749199/+merge/341342
[15:07] <bdmurray> commented on LP: #1725359 again
[15:07] <bdmurray> manual retracing / review of some Launchpad retracer failures
[15:07] <bdmurray> done
[15:07] <bdmurray> email discussion regarding snap errors at errors.u.c
[15:08] <cyphermox> uh, out of order done marker confused me
[15:08] <cyphermox> - MIR reviews
[15:08] <cyphermox> - doc/website/blog writing for netplan
[15:08] <cyphermox> - grub2 review for initramfs-less fallback
[15:08] <cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] netplan.io 0.34 release
[15:08] <cyphermox> - preparing netplan.io 0.34.1: small bugfixes, build easier on other distros
[15:08] <cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] made ubuntu-archive-assistant its own project
[15:08] <cyphermox> - investigating lubuntu ubiquity issues
[15:08] <cyphermox> - investigating casper netboot issues
[15:08] <cyphermox> (done)
[15:08] <sil2100> Argh, timezone madness
[15:09] <sil2100> o/
[15:09] <slangasek> sil2100: good timing, you're up :)
[15:09] <cyphermox> sil2100: your turn
[15:09] <sil2100> I'm... I'm not ready!
[15:09] <juliank> At least you're here :)
[15:09] <sil2100> (please skip me for now, I'll go last)
[15:10] <slangasek> rbalint:
[15:11] <slangasek> ok; and no fginther?
[15:11] <juliank> hmm, ok, me then
[15:11] <juliank> um no
[15:11] <philroche> fginther is on site today
[15:11] <doko> surprise meeting ...
[15:12]  * juliank looked at unshuffled list...
[15:12] <slangasek>  * sprint last week; off Monday
[15:12] <slangasek>  * shepherding cloud kernels into bionic
[15:12] <slangasek>  * discussions around archive rebuild with retpoline; ultimately decided against based on most current information
[15:12] <slangasek>  * continued work on +1 maintenance (e.g. ruby), to clear the backlog for 18.04 release
[15:12] <slangasek>  * worked with tribaal to prepare an MP to grub2 to let systems do opportunistic initramfsless boot with fallback https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/341272
[15:12] <slangasek> (done)
[15:13] <philroche> * Canonical sprint last week in Budapest
[15:13] <philroche> * Release review-gator snap https://dashboard.snapcraft.io/snaps/review-gator/
[15:13] <philroche> * Monday swap day
[15:13] <philroche> * Cloud image build system maintenance and feature development
[15:13] <philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard this week
[15:13] <philroche> * Worked on providing 18.04 preview to cloud partners. Users can grap a daily from http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/bionic/current/ for testing.
[15:13] <philroche> (done)
[15:13]  * sil2100 is ready
[15:13] <slangasek> sil2100: go ahead
[15:14] <sil2100> - Last week: sprinting
[15:14] <sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
[15:14] <sil2100> - Kernel reviews and releases
[15:14] <sil2100> - FFe reviews
[15:14] <sil2100> - Publishing the new google-cloud-sdk
[15:14] <sil2100> - Working on and testing of proof-of-concepts for grub2 --auto-nvram
[15:14] <sil2100> - Minor archive cleanups (stale/failed SRUs, removal of nplan)
[15:14] <sil2100> - Trying to reproduce ubuntu-image issues with system-data + content: syntax
[15:14] <sil2100> (done)
[15:14] <slangasek> rcj:
[15:15] <rcj> * Engineering sprint in Budapest last week
[15:15] <rcj>  * Discussed tweaks to improve to cloud-image CVE process
[15:15] <rcj>  * Worked on image publication improvements to improve error handling
[15:15] <rcj> * Added squashfs image to final Precise MAAS serial to enable re-installs for ESM (amd64)
[15:15] <rcj> * Reviewing netplan.io site documentation
[15:15] <rcj> * Vacation day on Monday
[15:15] <rcj> (done)
[15:17] <doko> tribaal:
[15:17] <philroche> tribaal is OoO
[15:18] <juliank> oh, tribaal is not here
[15:18] <juliank> - gnutls28 3.5.18 merge
[15:18] <juliank> - zstd emails
[15:18] <juliank> - got IS to enable https for changelogs.ubuntu.com (for meta-release files), changed update-manager and u-r-u to use that (bug 1744318), made apt(-get) changelog use it too ;)
[15:18] <juliank> - finding bugs on my newly setup bionic on my new laptop :)
[15:18] <juliank> (done)
[15:18] <juliank> oh, he is
[15:18] <juliank> well he's in the channel, how did I miss that
[15:18] <slangasek> doko:
[15:18] <doko> - GCC 7 & GCC 8 updates, including cross compilers
[15:18] <doko> - enabled the sanitzer in GCC on s390x (nobody noticed before ...)
[15:18] <doko> - cross-toolchain-base updates, built from glibc-2.27
[15:18] <doko> - forwarded three GCC & binutils issues upstream
[15:18] <doko> - python 3.7 beta2
[15:18] <doko> - python 3.6 release candidate 1
[15:18] <doko> - updated openjdk-10 package
[15:18] <doko> - new openjdk-11 package \o/
[15:18] <doko> - made LLVM 6.0 the default LLVM
[15:18] <doko> - processed around 10 MIRs
[15:18] <doko> - fixing autopkg test failures ... ongoing saga
[15:19] <doko> (done)
[15:19]  * xnox is very confused
[15:19] <juliank> xnox: do as the calendar says :)
[15:19] <slangasek> xnox: daylight shreddings time
[15:19] <slangasek> xnox: are you ready to give status?
[15:21] <xnox> • finished fixing keyring/invocation_id in containers both in systemd & kernel
[15:21] <xnox> • moving ruby transition along
[15:21] <xnox> • working on fixing network-manager <-> resolved integration
[15:21] <xnox> • fixing minimal image builds (in progress
[15:21] <xnox> • MIR/components missmatches zstd done
[15:21] <xnox> • done
[15:21]  * juliank is lucky gnome-online-account calendar stuff is broken so he looked at calendar a lot
[15:21] <slangasek> xnox: "finished fixing" - oooh?
[15:22] <slangasek> juliank: haha
[15:22] <slangasek> any questions on status?
[15:22] <xnox> slangasek, yes; will resend kernel patch & will upload systemd patch. Basically i can make it work either way now. so to be fair kernel patch is redundant, but i know a lot more about keyrings now....
[15:23] <slangasek> xnox: but can you attach gif keychains to your keyrings
[15:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:24] <slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:24] <slangasek> LP: #1753361 - xnox that looks like a straightforward request?
[15:24] <juliank> huh?
[15:25] <juliank> it does have one
[15:25] <doko> I'll take #1751011
[15:25] <xnox> slangasek, it's already set
[15:25] <juliank> It's use up to 10%, and keep 15% free
[15:26] <xnox> there is a hard cap of 4GB as well
[15:26] <slangasek> ok. should we take it for more investigation?
[15:26] <juliank> Well, 4.5G is about 4
[15:26] <slangasek> doko: to do what with it?
[15:26] <slangasek> doko: we discussed this bug previously and we had nacked changing bash to make qemu-user happy
[15:27] <slangasek> in fact, I'm going to take that off the incoming list
[15:27] <xnox> slangasek, set that bug to invalid.
[15:28] <slangasek> xnox: ok
[15:29] <doko> slangasek: hmm
[15:29] <juliank> JFTR: I installed my T480s yesterday evening, and now at 4pm, journal is already using 4GB
[15:29] <doko> slangasek: that's not recorded in the bug report ...
[15:29] <juliank> but might have been broken chrome :)
[15:29] <bdmurray> doko: I thought I commented on the bug
[15:30] <slangasek> doko: but you also shouldn't be grabbing things from the rls-bb-incoming queue and committing to them individually, as that's an untriaged incoming queue that anyone can throw bugs into
[15:30] <doko> or I could merge bash ...
[15:30] <xnox> juliank, good! please read your journal to figure out if it is gnome-shell spamming it!
[15:31] <xnox> to me it pukes stacktraces into journal all the time....
[15:31] <juliank> I had a broken .cache/google-chrome and chrome was logging that multiple times a second :)
[15:31] <xnox> charming
[15:31] <slangasek> xnox: is LP: #1662137 still present?  you claimed it a year ago, now someone has tagged it for 18.04
[15:32] <juliank> (it's a symlink to /run/user/1000/google-chrome which I create with systemd-tmpfiles)
[15:32] <xnox> slangasek, we outht to fix that yes....
[15:32] <slangasek> xnox: ok, claiming/tagging
[15:32] <xnox> slangasek, i believe this is friendly-recovery vs systemd issue, e.g. friedly-recovery should conflict / pause the emmergency shell; or for example, use the emergency shell things
[15:34] <slangasek> LP: #1750403 - I think this is already in progress and probably not actually a casper issue
[15:35] <slangasek> (will punt that for now, so we keep tabs on it)
[15:35] <slangasek> LP: #1592405 definitely needs fixing; claiming
[15:36] <slangasek> LP: #1601997 ?
[15:36] <xnox> slangasek, my opinion is that there are no actions to take.
[15:36] <juliank> +1
[15:36] <slangasek> I agree
[15:37] <cyphermox> +1
[15:38] <cyphermox> the only place where this is an issue is dual-boot
[15:39] <nacc> someone did bring up the idea of an iscsi disk hosted on 16.04 serving out as a target to 18.04
[15:39] <juliank> I don't see how dual boot is an issue. It's -new- filesystems, not old ones suddenly changing :D
[15:39] <nacc> the 18.04 would add a filesystem flag that the 16.04 host wouldn't be able to handle
[15:39] <nacc> dunno if that's a realistic case or not, but it's something i hadn't considered before
[15:40] <slangasek> nacc: so that falls on its face, and the user remakes the fs with -O -metadata_csum; done?
[15:41] <xnox> nacc, why would iscsi disk server; touch the exported disks? surely what filesystems client puts on iscsi disk, is none of the iscsi disk server problems...?!
[15:41] <nacc> slangasek: yes, that's probably true
[15:41] <nacc> xnox: fair response; I believe NAS-like devices do fs consistency checks periodically, but I might be wrong
[15:41] <slangasek> it also wouldn't fail an fsck
[15:41] <nacc> xnox: it was simply a thought that was brought up by a responsive community member
[15:41] <xnox> nacc, no no no no =) that would be bad
[15:42] <xnox> sure.
[15:42] <slangasek> it's not like new e2fsprogs can't understand filesystems made with old options
[15:42] <cyphermox> I think we all agree it's an "expert" use case, and those who do something affected should know to disable metadata_csum
[15:42] <juliank> I think you can even r/o mount it on an older _kernel_ release that does not understand metadata_csum, or am I wrong?
[15:42] <xnox> and 16.04 will get bionic's kernel
[15:42] <juliank> and that, yes
[15:42] <xnox> via hwe
[15:42] <cyphermox> discussed to death yet?
[15:43] <juliank> but there are people not using hwe :D
[15:43] <slangasek> I've marked the bug wontfix
[15:43] <slangasek> LP: #1682637
[15:43] <slangasek> xnox probably wants this one too :)
[15:43] <xnox> sure
[15:48] <slangasek> ok there are still a few more in the queue but I think that's enough time spent on these for now
[15:48] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:48] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:49] <bdmurray> Nope
[15:49] <sil2100> Nope
[15:49] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:49] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 15 15:49:54 2018 UTC.
[15:49] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-15-15.03.moin.txt
[15:49] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[15:58] <sil2100> o/
[15:58] <sil2100> Thanks!
[16:24] <elopio2> wxl, flexiondotorg, elacheche, jose, ahoneybun, marcoceppi: we have a meeting today. I might not have access to my computer on the next 30 minutes, so can one.of you please send an email to the list with a reminder?
[16:25] <elopio2> also, I will be able to lead only the first 30 minutes, then somebody else will have to do it. I'm running to get my machine ready, sorry.
[16:35] <elacheche> elopio2: Roger that! :)
[16:47] <elopio-webchat> nop, my machine is still very unhappy
[16:47] <elopio-webchat> any takers for leading today?
[16:48] <elacheche> We'll figure that out elopio-webchat :)
[17:01] <flexiondotorg> elacheche: I think you agreed to run this one, right? :-)
[17:02] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: OK
[17:02] <elopio-webchat> meeting time :)
[17:03] <elacheche> marcoceppi, jose, wxl, flexiondotorg, ahoneybun and elopio-webchat all here?
[17:03] <flexiondotorg> o/
[17:03] <wxl> yep
[17:04] <elacheche> #startmeeting Community Council meeting, 20180315
[17:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 17:04:04 2018 UTC.  The chair is elacheche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:05] <elacheche> We start the meeting, in the meanwhile I am sure the marcoceppi and ahoneybun and jose will show up :)
[17:05] <elacheche> #topic report since last meeting
[17:05] <elacheche> Do we have any news about things we discussted last time?
[17:06] <ahoneybun> I'm around
[17:06] <elacheche> Hey ahoneybun
[17:06] <elopio-webchat> I didn't finish my task.
[17:06] <elopio-webchat> Sorry, lots of things moving here.
[17:07] <elopio-webchat> But I should be home for next meeting, so I'll take the same action item again, review the CC meetig pages
[17:07] <elopio-webchat> s/meeting/wiki
[17:08] <flexiondotorg> elopio-webchat: IS that the actual wiki or wiki posts on the Hub?
[17:08] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: The actual wiki
[17:09] <elacheche> I didn't advanced on defining what we use each ressource for, I will send a mail about that so you can help me instead of waiting for having some spare time to talk to you via IRC
[17:09] <elopio-webchat> flexiondotorg: elacheche made a list of pages on the wiki. We need to review them, and see what can be moved, droped, updated...
[17:09] <flexiondotorg> Understood. Was just confirming.
[17:10] <elacheche> #action elacheche will email the list of ressources to discuss/debate the need of each via the ML
[17:10] <meetingology> ACTION: elacheche will email the list of ressources to discuss/debate the need of each via the ML
[17:11] <elopio-webchat> oh, the other thing was that I sent an email to the list, mentioning our decision from the last meeting about missing this meeting without an excuse
[17:11] <elacheche> #action elopio still reviewing the wiki pages
[17:11] <meetingology> ACTION: elopio still reviewing the wiki pages
[17:11] <elopio-webchat> we start counting today, looking at the summary posts.
[17:11] <elacheche> elopio-webchat I confirm we got that :) I hope that everyone noticed that while readingthe email
[17:12] <elopio-webchat> I think that not attending, and not even reading the summaries makes it twice as bad :D
[17:13] <elacheche> Do we have other news?
[17:13] <elopio-webchat> not here
[17:14] <elacheche> OK, should we move then?
[17:14] <flexiondotorg> Yep
[17:15]  * elacheche like to add 2 more subjects later, one about taking decisions (as example the case of the Ubuntu Europe Federation thread), and the other about the news team
[17:16] <elacheche> I just shar ed that now because I know I will forget it later..
[17:16] <elopio-webchat> ok
[17:16] <elacheche> Next topic
[17:16] <elacheche> #topic Bold bug triaging - issues with contacting a LP user Community Council
[17:17] <elopio-webchat> I sent an email to him/her last week
[17:17] <elacheche> Let's start by sharing the HUB thread again  → https://community.ubuntu.com/t/bold-bug-triaging-issues-with-contacting-a-lp-user/4334
[17:17] <wxl> dino99 right?
[17:17] <elopio-webchat> one week without a reply is more than enough time. So next action for me will be to contact the launchpad team to deactivate the account.
[17:17] <flexiondotorg> And Mark had this to say: "Yes, I think we can be firm about an expectation of engagement if folks are active."
[17:17] <wxl> they recently just did another round of their thing
[17:17] <elacheche> wxl: yes
[17:18] <elopio-webchat> yes. It could be that the email is wrong, or anything. The idea is that deactivating the account should prompt them to talk to us, and then we figure out if it was a misunderstanding or a CoC violation.
[17:18] <flexiondotorg> YOu can't properly participate on LP with broken email.
[17:18] <flexiondotorg> So deactivating for that alone is reasonable.
[17:18] <elacheche> +1
[17:18] <elopio-webchat> if they just disappear, then the problem is solved too. If they make another acccount and continue, then it's a clear violations and we follow that other path.
[17:19] <elacheche> Who'll contact the LP team?
[17:19] <wxl> i think we should just send this to canonical sysadmin
[17:19] <wxl> no?
[17:19] <jose> hmm
[17:19] <elacheche> Hey jose
[17:19] <wxl> acting as the community council, they should be able to just follow suit
[17:20] <jose> LP Owner can deactivate the team
[17:20] <elacheche> It depends on who's administrating the LP.. a LP team or just canonicals sysadmins
[17:20] <jose> however, they need proof of the discussion/matter in order to do that
[17:20] <jose> there is a launchpad owner team in launchpad who has the current launchpad admin
[17:20] <jose> and we can send them an email if it's a private matter
[17:20] <elacheche> great then, jose I think the HUB link and the log of this current session can be that proof
[17:21] <elopio-webchat> I'll take care of finding the right person, contacting them with links, and follow up
[17:21] <elopio-webchat> and documenting on the hub for future reference.
[17:21] <elacheche> Sorry elopio-webchat I don't agree with that..
[17:21] <jose> actually, gimme a sec and I'll give you a link to the team
[17:21] <elopio-webchat> elacheche: tell me more :)
[17:22] <elacheche> I think someone else should do the task, we should share the tasks, you already take care of other tasks
[17:22] <elopio-webchat> ah, I was taking it because I started
[17:22] <jose> I'm happy to do it, I'm already halfway there anyways
[17:22] <elopio-webchat> I have no particular interest in doing it myself. Anybody, feel free to take it.
[17:23] <elacheche> Great! elopio-webchat share what you have with jose :) I don't want any of use to have too much tasks, because we can't blame hime later if there is no progress on multiple tasks :)
[17:23] <flexiondotorg> Looks like jose has grabbed that action :-)
[17:24] <elopio-webchat> I have contacted them with no reply. That's what I have. The discussion is on the hub, and the summary of this meeting.
[17:24] <jose> yep, will share progress when I have it!
[17:24] <elopio-webchat> jose: just please make sure to make a post on the hub explaining how to deactivate a user.
[17:24] <elacheche> #action jose will find the good person to deactivate the LP user account, this log can be the proof with the HUB URL
[17:24] <meetingology> ACTION: jose will find the good person to deactivate the LP user account, this log can be the proof with the HUB URL
[17:24] <flexiondotorg> And Marks reply on the ML.
[17:24] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: That was a surprise x)
[17:25] <elacheche> Do you have any other comments about this topic or should we move to the next one ?
[17:25] <flexiondotorg> Move on.
[17:25] <elacheche> #topic Review, triage, and fix Code of Conduct bugs - @wxl
[17:27] <elacheche> ping wxl
[17:27] <wxl> oh hey sorry :)
[17:27] <elacheche> No problem, I know you're @work
[17:28] <wxl> so during GCI i made a task to have students sign and file bugs on the CoC
[17:28] <wxl> it was actually very successful, even with the fact that many of them were using GPG for the very first time
[17:28] <wxl> i could probably fix the directions a bit to make it a little bit easier, but that's not my point for this topic
[17:28] <wxl> the topic is we now have a lot of bugs and we should go through them and see where we can improve the CoC
[17:29] <wxl> that's not going to be a five minute thing, i don't think
[17:29] <wxl> so i was going to suggest perhaps we schedule a time to get together expressly for that purpose
[17:29] <wxl> thoughts?
[17:29] <elacheche> wxl: I am sorry, can you please explain more the task? Or share a bug link
[17:29] <flexiondotorg> I don't think all the bugs need to be actioned.
[17:30] <jose> not actioned, but at least triaged, I'd say
[17:30] <flexiondotorg> So just need review and explaination as to why we aren't incorporating the changes.
[17:30] <elopio-webchat> how many bugs?
[17:30] <wxl> elacheche: the task is irrelevant. what came out of it-- bugs against the CoC-- is what we need to worry about
[17:30] <wxl> we currently have 23 new bugs
[17:31] <wxl> i think some of them are actually valid, so saying we're not going to incorporate the change may not be appropriate for all of them
[17:31] <elacheche> ok
[17:32] <elacheche> I think we can meet again and triage those together as jose & wxl suggested
[17:32] <wxl> so do we want to schedule a time now to do that?
[17:33] <jose> I'd prefer a weekend, but not sure if you can do that
[17:33] <jose> I'm travelling around the US right now for work, so my schedule is a bit hectic
[17:33] <wxl> i'm fine with that
[17:33] <elacheche> Emm.. What about starting a ML thrread about this.. So we don't have to be all online in the same time and we can discuss those
[17:34] <wxl> i don't love that idea as it will take us much longer
[17:35] <jose> maybe we can meet up with those who are available, and then send a summary to the ML for commenting, for those who weren't available?
[17:36] <wxl> that seems reasonable. or we could just all take it upon ourselves to have the discussion within the bug reports themselves
[17:36] <elacheche> wxl: OK, as you lead the task you pick the time and others will try to join you (remeber we have different TZs ;-) )
[17:36] <elopio-webchat> yes, except hub instead of mailing list please.
[17:37] <wxl> if we're just going to make it a non-realtime public chat, let's just do it on the bug reports themselves
[17:37] <wxl> which means that everyone has an action to go get on that
[17:38] <elacheche> OK wxl that seems the good choice
[17:38] <elopio-webchat> +1
[17:38] <jose> agree
[17:38] <wxl> there ya go then :)
[17:38] <elopio-webchat> wxl: can you share the url please?
[17:38] <elacheche> So, is the action: Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP?
[17:39] <wxl> yep
[17:39] <wxl> elopio-webchat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct
[17:39] <elopio-webchat> thanks
[17:39] <elacheche> #action ALL CC will Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP? → https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct
[17:39] <meetingology> ACTION: ALL CC will Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP? → https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct
[17:40] <elacheche> Any other thoughts?
[17:40] <elacheche> We still have 20 min before ending the meeting
[17:40] <elacheche> We move on then..
[17:41] <elacheche> #topic Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum - @wxl
[17:41] <elacheche> I think you're talking about the UMB quorum?
[17:41] <wxl> i mean for all the governance boards, but especially the umb and lc which have faced issues over time of understanding what's what
[17:42] <wxl> robert's rules don't really help in re: quorum as it's basically like "the maximum number of people you'd expect might show up given the weather" or something ridiculous like that :)
[17:42] <wxl> is we have x number of seats, we should be able to define y number of people to make quorum
[17:42] <wxl> but that's the other problem: we don't even knwo what x number of seats is sometimes :)
[17:43] <elacheche> Afaik, the quorum was always 4 members, I remember that I read it somewhere + some old UMB announced it during meetings when I was joining the meetings before I become a Ubuntu Member, later when I joined the UMB we used that too
[17:43] <elacheche> I may dig the old wikis again to try to find it (reading some diffs can helo I guess)
[17:44] <wxl> so that would be 4/10 which is not a majority
[17:44] <wxl> i've never seen any of that documented anywhere for anyone
[17:44] <jose> hmm. in general, I'd say quorum for meetings should be 1/2, and for voting 2/3, but that's just me
[17:45] <elacheche> wxl: Let's don't forget that not all the 10 members  should be present at the same timen that's why the UMB have multiple slots.. not only for candidates, but for board members too
[17:45] <wxl> so you're saying a majority then, jose?
[17:45] <jose> yes. but now, the UMB is a special case...
[17:45] <wxl> elacheche: true. we'd need to define it based on that, i.e. there would have to be a minimum number of folks at each slot
[17:45] <jose> I remember beforehand there used to be two UMB teams
[17:45] <wxl> s/at/signed up for/
[17:46] <jose> one for the 10 and another for the 22 UMBs. then, both teams in a general UMB team for lp admin purposes
[17:46] <wxl> also i'll add if "4" is the magic number then that means that most of the LC needs to be there: 4/5
[17:47] <wxl> and for us that's not a majority either: 4/8
[17:47] <elacheche> wxl: True, when I signed up for the UMB seat I signed up for all the slots, same for multiple others, because we are near the  UTC TZ
[17:48] <wxl> that might be a good reason to suggest more than one team
[17:48] <wxl> let's imagine the situation where you leave-- that means both boards are affected, but we might get a replacement that can only do one
[17:48] <wxl> so then we need to add another person
[17:49] <wxl> i think it would be better to have two teams but either team can participate in the other one
[17:49] <elacheche> Just a side note.. I think that I read in one of the meetings (yeeaaaaaaaaaaaars ago, I don't know what/when) that CC members can help if the quorum is not enough, like if the UBM need 1 more person, and there is a CC around he can vote
[17:49] <elacheche> I am note sure if that's documented somewhere or not too
[17:49] <wxl> right. and i've seen that happen... and i've seen it not work because they're not around
[17:50] <wxl> my understanding of it was that the cc as a whole was entitled to one vote
[17:50] <wxl> so if you were down 2, even with two cc members, that wouldn't get you there
[17:50] <wxl> but again, this all needs to be defined and most importantly, documented
[17:50] <elacheche> OK, we should document all that somewhere for future CC
[17:50] <elopio-webchat> it sounds to me that the first step is to dig out the current rules. Then, figure out if we need to add rules or modify the process entirely.
[17:51] <flexiondotorg> That ^
[17:51] <flexiondotorg> Which I was just hunting for.
[17:51] <wxl> i've never seen the rules but elacheche seems to think he has
[17:51] <wxl> so maybe next action, elacheche goes hunting?
[17:52] <elacheche> wxl: I think I saw them in here during some meetings before I become a Ubuntu member, and saw some on the wiki.. That's why digging the wikis will be a good start
[17:52] <elacheche> OK, I will do that..
[17:54] <elacheche> #action Get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs
[17:54] <meetingology> ACTION: Get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs
[17:54] <elacheche> #action elacheche will get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs
[17:54] <meetingology> ACTION: elacheche will get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs
[17:55] <elacheche> We're late.. Any other suggestions, or should we move?
[17:55] <elacheche> Next..
[17:55] <elacheche> #topic Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours - @Wimpress aka flexiondotorg
[17:56] <flexiondotorg> So, I mentioned this before.
[17:56] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: can you resume that, and what actions are needed in this stage?
[17:57] <flexiondotorg> The idea is this, the CC activly engages with desktop environment communities or application communities to encourage them to create an Ubuntu flavour.
[17:57] <flexiondotorg> Example of a desktop environment community could be Liri.
[17:57] <flexiondotorg> Example of application community could be Kodi.
[17:58] <wxl> i like the idea
[17:58] <wxl> fresh blood is always a nice thing
[17:58] <flexiondotorg> I'd like to propose that each dev cycle the CC reach out to an agreed number of projects to invite them in.
[17:58] <wxl> it might be especially good to find projects that don't have packaging or have outdated packaging
[17:58] <elacheche> I do too.. But we should have some good arguments to convince them to do so
[17:59] <flexiondotorg> Question is, how many projects (should they all accept) is a managable number for us to steward?
[17:59] <flexiondotorg> elacheche: Yes, we need material to support this.
[17:59] <wxl> i think the number should be kept small
[17:59] <wxl> actually maybe just start with one
[17:59] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: We probably should get in touch with someone from the technical board as well to help us answer your questions
[17:59] <wxl> do it as a trial and then decide from there
[18:00] <wxl> these are not necessarily technical issues, elacheche
[18:00] <elacheche> OK, your idea seems fair wxl.. We can start with 1
[18:01] <flexiondotorg> Working with the TB is essential, since they have to approve/deny applications to become a flavour.
[18:01] <elacheche> We are out of time here.. As there is no other meetings planned for today, we can extend our meeting?
[18:01] <elacheche> You can check that here → http://ubuntu-news.org/calendars/
[18:01] <flexiondotorg> So part of our role would be making sure they are ready to apply before contacting the TB.
[18:01] <wxl> ^^ that's what i meant
[18:01] <flexiondotorg> I think deciding on a contacting 2 projects per cycle is ample.
[18:02] <flexiondotorg> And may end promptly if they are not interested.
[18:02] <flexiondotorg> We have one in flight right now, Ubuntu Unity.
[18:02] <flexiondotorg> I suppose the first thing to agree, is that we agree this is something we will do.
[18:02] <flexiondotorg> Do we agree?
[18:03] <wxl> yes
[18:03] <flexiondotorg> I think we had consensus last time I proposed this.
[18:03] <elacheche> YES.. We should work on getting new people involved
[18:03]  * flexiondotorg waits for others to comment
[18:03] <ahoneybun> yep
[18:04] <flexiondotorg> OK, that is enough.
[18:04] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: So, what's the next action?
[18:04] <flexiondotorg> Next question, is contacting 2 projects per cycle sufficient?
[18:05] <elacheche> I think that's enough for a trial as wxl said.. So we can manage that and have a feedback to improve, if we find the good path we can increase that the next cycle.. What do you think
[18:06] <flexiondotorg> I think if 2 both agree it would generate quite some work and more than 2 would be unmanagable.
[18:07] <flexiondotorg> I also forsee projects declining, but that fine too. At least we extended and invitation.
[18:07] <flexiondotorg> So, here is the action I would like to request.
[18:07] <elopio-webchat> sorry, I agree
[18:08] <flexiondotorg> Every CC member should find one desktop environment or set top application and add that to a topic I will start in the Hub.
[18:08] <flexiondotorg> Next meeting we can decide which is those 7 project we contact.
[18:08] <flexiondotorg> Which 2 of the 7.
[18:09] <wxl> +1
[18:09] <flexiondotorg> I wrote up some of the process of becoming a flavour for Ubuntu Unity.
[18:09] <elacheche> +1
[18:09] <flexiondotorg> We should use that as a starting point.
[18:09]  * elacheche can't wait to seem the "Ubuntu AweomeWM" flavor :D :p
[18:10] <flexiondotorg> Yes, significant Window Managers count as DE :-)
[18:10] <flexiondotorg> I think we can all find something, and duplication of suggestions is fine.
[18:10] <wxl> YESS
[18:10]  * wxl is an awesome user
[18:10] <wxl> actually there's a couple tiling wayland wms out now........
[18:10] <elacheche> wxl: AWESOME people uses awesomewm :p
[18:10] <flexiondotorg> Right, I'll take the action to start to topic.
[18:11] <flexiondotorg> Everyone else get the action to bring their suggestions.
[18:11] <elacheche> OK then flexiondotorg
[18:11] <elacheche> #action flexiondotorg start a HUB thread about Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours
[18:11] <meetingology> ACTION: flexiondotorg start a HUB thread about Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours
[18:11] <flexiondotorg> wxl: Save it for the Hub :-D
[18:11] <elacheche> #action ALL CC members suggest a Desktop or and Application then we will vote about 2
[18:11] <meetingology> ACTION: ALL CC members suggest a Desktop or and Application then we will vote about 2
[18:13] <elacheche> Any other suggestion, or should we move on?
[18:13] <flexiondotorg> Move on.
[18:14] <elacheche> #topic Ubuntu guerrilla marketing campaign - @Wimpress aka flexiondotorg
[18:14] <flexiondotorg> So, something else I've mentioned before.
[18:14] <flexiondotorg> I thought this might be something we could steward in the absence of GSoC.
[18:15] <flexiondotorg> Basic idea is get the LoCos and community making fun, interesting and quality Ubuntu "marketing" material.
[18:16] <flexiondotorg> Then get the community sharing these "adverts" for Ubuntu in creative ways to reach people's attention who are outside the FOSS bubble.
[18:17] <elacheche> Good idea.. We can ask the LC to announce it so LoCo contacts can share
[18:17] <flexiondotorg> This probably needs seeding with some initial examples.
[18:18] <flexiondotorg> Which would also be made available in such as way that they can be translated.
[18:18] <flexiondotorg> I'm not so interested in seeing a load of tweets.
[18:18] <flexiondotorg> I want to see posters, cards in libraries, adverts in shops, banners at sports events.
[18:19] <flexiondotorg> The French LoCo are really creative in how they "market" Ubuntu.
[18:19] <flexiondotorg> I'd like to see more LoCos being active in fun, interesting ways.
[18:20] <flexiondotorg> Release parties are OK, but are rarely attended by new members.
[18:20] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: The good thing about Ubuntu-fr is that they are a legal association in France (afaik), so they have some financials to do that..
[18:20] <flexiondotorg> The French LoCo rent a tent a music festivals with Ubuntu flags, computers of pedestals and Ubuntu water applied tatoos.
[18:20] <elacheche> And they have the legal authority to put posters and banners in public
[18:23] <elacheche>  agree with the idea.. who have comments?
[18:24] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: what action do you think is needed for this topic
[18:24] <wxl> maybe we provide all the materials and info and documentation for locos and offer them funds to make it happen?
[18:25] <flexiondotorg> I think "materials" is the key things there.
[18:25] <flexiondotorg> We need to outlines what we are hoping to see, how people can get involved and some example "adverts".
[18:26] <flexiondotorg> I don't think we can pitch the idea with out some structure.
[18:27] <flexiondotorg> Perhaps a wiki post on the Hub we can all contribute to?
[18:27] <elacheche> flexiondotorg: +1 I was about to suggest that too
[18:27] <flexiondotorg> To outline the idea and things we need.
[18:27] <flexiondotorg> Action me with that then.
[18:27] <wxl[m]> Sounds good
[18:28] <elacheche> #action flexiondotorg start a HUB post to discuss this topic
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: flexiondotorg start a HUB post to discuss this topic
[18:28] <elacheche> Anything else we should discuss today?
[18:29] <elacheche> If not we should end the meeting..
[18:29] <elacheche> in 10..
[18:29] <elacheche> 9..
[18:29] <elacheche> 8..
[18:29] <elacheche> 7..
[18:29] <elacheche> 6..
[18:29] <elacheche> 5..
[18:29] <elacheche> 4..
[18:30] <elacheche> 3..
[18:30] <elacheche> 2..
[18:30] <elacheche> 1..
[18:30] <elacheche> 0.
[18:30] <elacheche> Thank you everyone for being here.. I will make sure to send the report link asap and start the action assigned to me asap too.
[18:31] <elacheche> In the meanwhile, don't hesitate to share progress via IRC, HUB and/or ML.
[18:31] <elacheche> Have a good night/day for all of you
[18:31] <wxl> on that subject
[18:31] <elacheche> Yes!
[18:31] <wxl> jose: sysadmins say the process for dealingw ith an lp user would be to file an rt with as much info as possible
[18:32] <jose> sorry, had to jump on a work meeting
[18:32] <jose> will get back shortly
[18:32] <wxl[m]> End it
[18:32] <flexiondotorg> #endmeeting
[18:32] <wxl> ooh nice delay matrix
[18:33] <elacheche> OK, we can move to #ubuntu-communitycouncil to discuss this? I think we should free the meeting channel :D We already extended the meeting by 30min :D
[18:33] <elacheche> #endmeeting
[18:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 15 18:33:11 2018 UTC.
[18:33] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-15-17.04.moin.txt
[18:33] <flexiondotorg> :-)