[02:17] <bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi: a couple questions about defaults... 1) Do we want notifications to fade out? This was the behavior prior to 0.4.0 I think, and 2) Do we want to add the notifyd plugin to the panel? It seems like a nice addition to me and fits in nicely to the left of indicator-messages
[02:18] <bluesabre> (also welcome feedback from everybody else)
[04:17] <flocculant> bluesabre: first off from my perspective I'd say no to both - all turned off here :p
[04:18] <Unit193> I thought they did fade out by default, but yeah added the plugin and didn't see too much of a benefit. :3
[04:18] <flocculant> from not my perspective 1 - not sure what you mean - when I test it for ochosi I thought it faded out 
[04:19] <flocculant> 2 - the plugin isn't too obtrusive and I don't see having it there would be an immediate fail
[04:19] <flocculant> Unit193: ha ha 
[04:19] <flocculant> I can imagine if you had them on - the plugin allows you to dnd pretty quickly
[04:20] <Unit193> For the only thing that matters, my irssi notifications don't fire if ~/.dnd exists.
[04:20] <flocculant> Unit193: suspend screwed up a terminal I had running irssi, was dead, logging out and it was still dead - had to reboot
[04:25] <flocculant> aah it moves off stage right - doesn't fade
[04:27] <Unit193> 0_o
[04:28] <flocculant> apparently I have electron installed ... https://i.imgur.com/sVA1FaM.png
[04:28] <flocculant> pretty sure I don't - but I do have something built with it (if that's what I read right)
[08:52] <willem> good moring all
[08:53] <willem> morning 
[08:53] <Unit193> Heya, willem.
[08:54] <willem> flocculant, as to an update-manager icon appearing in my panel: today I fired up my laptop around 9 o'clock. So far -it's now almost 10- there's no icon to be seen.
[08:55] <willem> (I'm refering to an earlier exchange about update-manager)
[08:57] <willem> I ran sudo apt update in the terminal, and it tells me that there are 23 upgradable packages. There is still no update-manager in the panel however.
[08:57] <willem> Should I report this as an issue do you think?
[09:58] <bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193, yeah, it used to fade by default, but the default changed recently to just disappear
[09:58] <bluesabre> Unit193: that .dnd thing... that sounds like how it should work?
[10:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: Irssi/application specific, thus personally have no need for notifyd's version which is what the plugin provides access to.
[10:12] <bluesabre> Unit193: ah, gotcha
[10:13] <bluesabre> but similarly, you wouldn't be bothered by its inclusion
[10:13] <Unit193> Yeah, only insofar if I have to re-install, something to remove, but that's not hard so not a big deal. :P
[10:14] <bluesabre> :)
[10:24] <bluesabre> flocculant: there's a lot of Electron apps now, so very possible you may have used one at some point
[10:25] <bluesabre> I actually need a file a bug about those, fonts are rendering horribly bad in them in bionic
[10:32] <Unit193> bluesabre: So, happy with Bionic?  With the LTS status?
[10:35] <ali1234> https://i.imgur.com/iCOm6os.png missing icons
[10:38] <bluesabre> ali1234: in humanity?
[10:39] <ali1234> in ubuntu-mono-light and elementary-xfce
[10:39] <bluesabre> Unit193: yes, I think we're in a pretty good position. Everything is rock solid and we only have a few minor issues here and there
[10:39] <ali1234> and yeah humanity too
[10:40] <bluesabre> elementary-xfce looks good over here
[10:40] <ali1234> i installed with the daily image downloaded about 2 hours ago
[10:40] <bluesabre> huh
[10:40] <bluesabre> the orange home folder you have there is not elementary-xfce
[10:40] <ali1234> corrent, it is ubuntu-mono-light
[10:40] <ali1234> the icons are missing regardless of what icon set i choose
[10:42] <bluesabre> will take a look tonight
[10:42] <ali1234> hmm, wait, it does have an icon in elementary-xfce
[10:43] <ali1234> it's just that it's an amorphous grey blob so i could not see it :(
[10:44] <ali1234> also what is this: https://i.imgur.com/iCyTLXr.png
[10:50] <willem> I think I may be seeing the same thing: http://i.imgur.com/xhsjUAV.png; below the bluetooth icon, the mouse and touch pad entry seems to be missing the icon. 
[10:51] <ali1234> yeah, cos you've changed icon theme as well
[10:52] <ali1234> oh hre's something: the gnome icon theme is not missing the icon
[10:52] <ali1234> i bet gnome renamed the icon and then nobody fixed all the old themes
[10:53] <willem> I just changed the icon theme to adwaita. Now more icons are missing it seems: http://i.imgur.com/p9hLM9a.png
[10:54] <ali1234> me too. adwaita seems to have almost no icons at all
[10:54] <ali1234> although perhaps that is to be expected
[10:54] <ali1234> i'm not sure why it is even listed and even the preview has a missing icon
[10:56] <ali1234> ah you need adwaita-icon-theme-full to get the full theme
[10:56] <willem> Unit193, as to being happy with Bionic: I've been using it as my everyday install for some 5 days now. Not found any reason to reboot 16.04 so far.
[10:56] <willem> So it's doing well
[10:56] <willem> :-)
[11:00] <ali1234> hmm yep, most icon themes do have those icons
[11:00] <ali1234> faenza, human, breath all have them
[11:01] <ali1234> i guess ubuntu-mono is just unmaintained now
[11:02] <Unit193> Oh nice, can't get the dropbox indicator to show up.
[11:02] <Unit193> willem: Yep, been using it for quite some time myself.
[11:14] <willem> Unit193, my dropbox icon in 18.04 is working (unlike in 16.04). It does however not show any menu if i click/tap on it. It does show atatus messages when I hover over it.
[11:19] <ali1234> hmm installing adwaita-icon-theme-full fixes ubuntu-mono-light as well
[11:19] <ali1234> i dont think i will ever understand how icon themes work :(
[11:25] <Unit193> willem: I can get either to work in Artful, though it seems only if I use indicator-application, hmm.
[11:26] <Unit193> willem: I usually force it into tray icon mode, but was looking to see if I could get indicators working.
[11:27] <ali1234> ah i see
[11:28] <ali1234> Inherits=Humanity,Adwaita,hicolor <- that's the problem
[11:30] <Unit193> OK, so yes I can confirm on Bionic too.
[11:41] <willem> have to leave for now; thanks
[12:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: i would set it to fade out by default. not sure if you also want to enable slide out. i would also add the plugin for easy access to DND
[12:03] <ochosi> ali1234: if you find missing icons in elementary-xfce let me know! and yeah, humanity is in terrible shape
[12:03] <ochosi> just don't use it
[12:03] <ali1234> i'm not trying to use humanity but ubuntu-mono-light
[12:04] <ali1234> but it is also messed up for some reason
[12:04] <ali1234> but installing adwaita-icon-theme-full fixes it for some reason
[12:04] <ali1234> i'm now writing a tool to tell me why
[12:05] <ali1234> can you tell me the name of those icons?
[13:15] <ali1234> okay the icon in question is preferences-desktop-peripherals
[13:15] <ali1234> this icon only exists inside the 'gnome' icon theme
[13:16] <ali1234> this code snippet find the icon even though the gnome theme is selected and the selected theme does not inherit from it http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f9HmqWSkC6/ 
[13:17] <ali1234> it works on both 16.04 and 18.04 so i don't understand why it isn't drawing the icon on 18.04
[13:47] <ali1234> araraghgrhaghrgha
[13:47] <ali1234> this is the worst thing ever
[13:47] <ali1234> the icon exists
[13:47] <ali1234> somebody changed it to a copy of the missing icon icon
[13:50] <ali1234> nope, that's not right either
[15:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-7-2-released-tp50792.html (by Igor Zakharov)
[16:40] <willem> hi guys. I think I am seeing some weird behaviour when the laptop battery is almost empty. Please see the picture here http://i.imgur.com/x2vCDj3.png 
[16:41] <willem> This screen appeared all of a sudden, and the white squares moves when I move the mouse/touchpad
[16:41] <willem> It happened twice
[16:41] <willem> Not sure how to investigate this. Any suggestions?
[16:46] <GridCube> willem: I have the suspicion that's a hardware issue
[16:48] <willem> It think it happens when the battery is very low, and the laptop wants to shut down, and ask me to save my work before the complete shutdown. When I press the on/off button, the Xubuntu-windoing down windows shows up and the laptop turns off
[16:49] <willem> This has not happened before. Is there any log I can have a look at to find out more? Or should I ask that somewhere else?
[17:18] <willem> I found a log message which may be related and posted on launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1550779
[17:54] <flocculant> willem: what do you have in update tab of software and updates - just screen shot it for me 
[17:56] <flocculant> bluesabre: it was early - yea I have electron app - iirc etcher is electron - not sure why notify just calls things electron?
[18:01] <willem> flocculant, I hope you mean this: http://i.imgur.com/wksmBeI.png
[18:02] <willem> The option I meant is in this tab: http://i.imgur.com/EdLwRUO.png
[18:03] <flocculant> yea - last one - don't turn that on 
[18:03] <flocculant> yea - last one - don't turn that on 
[18:03] <flocculant> I'll repeat that :p
[18:03] <willem> Thank you
[18:03] <willem> thank you
[18:04] <willem> I wont
[18:04] <willem> I really won't
[18:04] <willem> :-)
[18:04] <flocculant> heh
[18:05] <flocculant> ok - so first screenie - set them to same as mine and see what happens tomorrow
[18:06] <flocculant> tbh I'm not overly concerned about update-mangler - that's a Canonical thing - they get paid to sort their stuff out :D
[18:09] <willem> flocculant, Is there a way for me to know what yours looks like? :-)
[18:10] <flocculant> oops - wonder where I posted that then 
[18:10] <flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/9K2gnwG.png
[18:10] <flocculant> or I thought I was going to - then didn't 
[18:16] <willem> well, my update tab looks the same;now, except for the security updates; there I have Download immediately and install... Is that alright?
[18:17] <willem> Remember though: I have not seen an update icon in system tray yet
[18:17] <flocculant> yep - leave the security one how you have it
[18:18] <flocculant> and yes - trying to trigger it for you by telling it to display immediately
[18:18] <flocculant> how the tool works is that 2 times per day shortly after and admin logs in (you) it checks and should display
[18:19] <willem> well, I have not seen that display yet.
[18:19] <willem> still: food calls
[19:35] <willem> I was looking at https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes; I noticed that the link in "xubuntu-desktop (changelog)" doesn't work.
[19:36] <willem> same: xubuntu-wallpapers (changelog)
[20:14] <flocculant> willem: thanks :)
[20:18] <krytarik> willem: Regarding update-manager not showing up even though you get packages to upgrade using APT directly, there is this too which might play a role here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhasedUpdates
[20:25] <dc_coder_84> I am testing Xubuntu 18.04 64 Bit on real hardware and have found some weird things. When I execute
[20:25] <dc_coder_84> xfce4-terminal --hold --command "echo hello"
[20:25] <dc_coder_84> I everytime get a popup with this message: "Child process exited normal with status zero". Should I open a bug report for it?
[20:26] <willem> krytarik, thanks. That may well be the reason. I'll have a better look over there shortly.
[20:30] <ali1234> ochosi: getting deeper into this missing icon thing. Gtk+3 has added hardcoded look ups against Adwaita and gnome icon themes in addition to hicolor and whatever your theme inherits
[20:31] <ali1234> Gtk+2 never did this, so i don't understand how garcon could ever find the missing icons at all, since they'ev only ever existing in the gnome theme on my system
[20:55] <ali1234> hmm https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/a093cd2a22173369424878eb6d8c38124e7aa1f9
[21:08] <ali1234> got it! setting that setting to "gnome" fixes everything
[21:08] <ali1234> just need to figure out why that is not required on 16.04 now
[22:05] <ali1234> flocculant: here's all the bugs i found in the beta so far: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JfKCv3P6bw/
[22:07] <bluesabre> flocculant: etcher works well :)
[22:07] <ali1234> etcher is electron... didn't someone say they are busted on 18.04?
[22:07] <bluesabre> ali1234: they work, but fonts seem to be poorly rendered in 18.04
[22:08] <bluesabre> especially noticeable in atom and visual studio code
[22:08] <ali1234> bluesabre: do you have any suggestions where i could look for this fallback icon theme setting?
[22:08] <ali1234> like where do the default settings live?
[22:09] <bluesabre> ali1234: I don't know... but I gtk lets you set whether to use fallback icons in case of a failed load
[22:09] <ali1234> it does but the problem is i didnt tell it to but under 16.04 it did anyway
[22:09] <ali1234> but now under 18.04 it does not
[22:09] <ali1234> as far as i can tell no settings changed
[22:10] <ali1234> and neither did the source code
[22:10] <ali1234> nor any of the icon themes
[22:10] <bluesabre> :D
[22:10] <ali1234> so... i have no idea
[22:10] <bluesabre> no idea
[22:10] <ali1234> what do you think about just setting the setting in the xfconf defaults?
[22:11] <ali1234> it fixes the problem and it's just one key that doesn't appear to affect anything else
[22:11] <bluesabre> What's the setting?
[22:12] <ali1234> xsettings\Net\FallbackIconTheme = "gnome"
[22:12] <bluesabre> Seems like a reasonable inclusion
[22:12] <ali1234> there's a bug report... in the pastebin i linked above... number 4
[22:13] <ali1234> i don't like fixing things without understand why they fix it :(
[22:13] <bluesabre> thanks ali1234 
[22:13] <ali1234> i will keep searching for the answer and update the bug
[22:13] <bluesabre> Cool
[22:13] <bluesabre> Let me know if you find anything, otherwise I'll just add it to our defaults
[22:40] <ali1234> hmm... i reproduced it on 16.04 and now i don't understand why
[22:41] <ali1234> i found a bunch of other keys that specify an icon theme but the xsettings one really seems to be the only one that does anything