=== doniks_ is now known as doniks [00:05] Two quick questions for folks out there: [00:06] 1. Is anyone using the imgur app to share images? I've installed it on 16.04 but it doesn't get past "sharing image" for me. [00:07] 2. On a bug report I saw something about getting rid of scopes. Just out of interest is there a discussion anywhere on the replacement? I'd be interesed to see it . [00:13] @padraic7a, The replacement really is just apps, for 99% of scopes [00:14] Ok, I was thinking of the app scope specifically. Will the alternative be something like the way Nautilus is currently used to provide a desktop on gnome - or is that just me getting two different ideas confused? [00:15] A dash replacement is certainly in order, but probably won't be as involved as retaining scopes. [00:15] No, replacement for apps scope is the app drawer [00:16] Dash specifically meaning only the app listing. If the drawer is just as usable, there's no reason not to go with it. [00:16] I guess we'll see when the time comes [00:17] The drawer needs a little work still, but it's the right way forward there [00:18] Ok, thanks folks. Is there a repo for the app drawer? [00:19] Sure, you can try it on the desktop in 16.04 [00:23] like in this article? https://www.maketecheasier.com/add-app-drawer-unity-launcher-ubuntu/ … So the app view willl be an app drawer automatically populated with (almost) every app you download? [00:23] ok, that makes sense [00:23] No, that's Unity 7 [00:24] If you download Unity 8 using the install tools, you get the app drawer... and a subpar desktop experience [00:26] ah ok. that makes more sense. … cheers [00:49] When 16.04 arrives, what changes can users expect? [00:51] the ones in here, I suppose: https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/milestone/8 [01:20] @UniversalSuperBox, I see. Is this a page I can bookmark that will be updated for the next release as well or will there be another one? [01:20] They're all at https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/milestones [01:23] In the first URL you sent me, I tried taking out the `/8` to see if they would be there but I just needed to take out one more character lol. Thank you! 👍 [01:23] [Edit] In the first URL you sent me, I tried taking out the `/8` to see if they would be there but I just needed to add one more character lol. Thank you! 👍 [01:24] Yeah, plurals are always hard [01:27] Like moose and moose [01:40] Or fish and fish (though fishes is correct in _some_ cases) [01:40] [Edit] Or fish and fish (though fishes is correct in some cases) [01:41] Fishi [01:45] fishy fishy fish, find the fish! [01:45] water and waters [05:08] unity [06:31] @AmolithSeregion, This horror movie was giving me the fishes? [06:35] @Flohack is this PR needed ? or just for FP2 ? … https://github.com/ubports/android_hardware_qcom_audio/pull/1/commits/96ce2d9ab8878de89679b03fa98e32f746d28f76 [06:37] @Walid, No idea sry [06:37] must ask Marius himself @mariogrip [06:38] cuz i have only issue wwith halium-5.1 : audio, thats really make me crazy [06:38] LOL the PR is still open [06:38] 2016 wtf [06:39] i will test it , just patched audio-caf and build rght now [06:39] There its written its needed for FP2 and OPO [06:40] So its more than 1 device already ;) [06:40] yes , my device use also audio-caf 8974, same used by FP2 [06:42] good [06:42] but if this is not merged [06:42] how does it not crash 😆 [06:47] for me crash , have error : can' open pcm0D.... [06:48] [Edit] for me crash , have error : can't open pcm0D.... something like this [08:06] Hi community. RSS reader help. Right now use digging reader but shutting down in 26 march. In open store actually have it 3 app to this. One a scope. The rest, one Shorter not work in my e4.5, the other RSS simple reader work, but not have opal import and the add feature is are broken, because no paste well. Is possible [08:06] another option? Or help to fix someone. I not a programmer but I can help whit test or design. Greetings! [09:09] @dohbee, :) I'd very much welcome the ability to tidy the apps away behind the Ubuntu logo. [10:17] DarthBoris was added by: DarthBoris [10:21] @DarthBoris, Hi Mark, check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you started [10:21] wow, 16.04 devel is getting functional [10:22] store works, nextcloud calendar works [10:22] 👍 [10:22] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/yEu5kWn8.webp [10:22] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/mYJP63Oc.webp [10:22] i can even switch channels (not that there are any outside devel, but still) [10:23] Yeah it's starting to become quite usable. [10:24] Speaking of which Dan, how's Libertine coming along for it? [10:25] still WIP [10:27] Hi [10:27] I've 1 problem with the OpO [10:27] the flash off the Camera don't work [10:27] anyone have the same problem? [10:28] @Miguel Pires, I have the same symptom on FP2, but the problem may be different [10:33] René was added by: René [10:34] @René, Hi René, you can read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you started [10:36] @Miguel Pires, https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/258 [10:38] @advocatux, Thks. No news about the bug... [10:40] linux lotfi was added by: linux lotfi [10:48] @linux lotfi, Hi linux lotfi, check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome [10:51] It is true 16.04 is getting stable, but I noticed: camera shoot but then goes stuck and you have to open multitasking to re use it. Or, openstore seems to work, but it doesn't update apps. [12:57] Is there something other than Libertine I can use to install desktop apps? [13:08] i think somenone (@dohbee ?) managed to "install" debs by putting the files in writable memory (/home/...) and then painstakingly point all path references to the new location [13:08] not really, no [13:09] 😅 [13:09] @YougoChats, that was definitely not me [13:09] oh ok. it's rather messy way of doing things anyway [13:10] yes, and way too much work [13:11] for no meaningful gain [13:12] @AmolithSeregion, are you looking for a general solution, or is there just one specific app you want to run? [13:12] I would like to run Libreoffice [13:13] @dohbee, I would like to run Libreoffice and VLC [13:13] @AmolithSeregion, Yeah, you would really need libertine then (or rebuild them as clicks somehow) [13:14] @dohbee, When will Libertine be fixed, does anyone know? [13:15] no idea, i can't really create a container on my n5, because it has no network, so no way to really test it failing directly at the moment [13:16] guess i could put 15.04 back on it and create a container on my n4, then copy it over to the n5, perhaps, and see what breaks [13:18] It has been suggested that the KDE office suite will run in 16.04 at some point. That could substitute for LibreOffice [13:21] it should run in 15.04 too [13:21] but that doesn't solve the libertine issues [13:22] hmm, or maybe i should just buy another n5, because this one really is messed up [13:50] [Edit] Hi community. RSS reader help. Right now use digg reader but shutting down in 26 march. In open store actually have it 3 app to this. One a scope. The rest, one Shorter not work in my e4.5, the other RSS simple reader work, but not have opal import and the add feature is are broken, because no paste well. Is possi [13:50] ble another option? Or help to fix someone. I not a programmer but I can help whit test or design. Greetings! [13:50] Não era isso [15:12] one question... [15:12] looking at the bugs on github [15:13] most of them are fixed and in Quality Assurance group [15:13] does that mean that these are implemented in developer mode of ubuntu touch 16.04? [15:13] or does it has to be moved in realse Candideate group? [15:14] https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/projects/3#card-7758026 [15:26] This is the meaning of each column: https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/about/process/issue-tracking.html [15:30] zepolar was added by: zepolar [15:31] @zepolar, Hi Alexander, take a look to https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you started [15:31] @advocatux you're too fast for me... [15:32] ;) [15:32] 😆 [15:34] thanks @advocatux, in this moment I will read the norms [15:38] Oh this is a historic moment! 🎉 Someone is going to read the norms BEFORE asking a question! 😆 … (just kidding) [15:38] [Edit] Oh this is an historic moment! 🎉 Someone is going to read the norms BEFORE asking a question! 😆 … (just kidding) [15:38] haha === rumble is now known as grumble [16:04] Laura uitgenodigd, maar ze bijt niet [16:55] Any news on OAT 4? [16:56] Any news on OTA 4? [16:56] @kristijantkalec, I don't think we are quite at RC level yet. It would have to be a bit more settled for that [16:57] @nikhilubuntu, has there been any announcement that there will be an OTA4 for 15.04? [17:00] @dohbee, Maybe OTA4 will be the upgrade to 16.04? Not clear [17:02] OTA 4 is 16.04 [17:02] i guess that's what'll happen [17:02] since all work goes to xenial [17:02] maybe [17:02] maybe not [17:03] there are several smaller fixes that would be nice to get into 15.04. i expect 16.04 is still going to take a while yet [17:04] OTA 3.5 [17:04] @PhoenixLandPirate, 😂 [17:09] an OTA that moves to 16.04 is going to be hard beyond just having the basics working, too. libertine containers will also need upgrading, for example [19:17] i'm actually interested in scopes as project but i have no idea what that would involve....... [19:34] Hello! Do you know how is fixed, in ubports 16.04, the bug that causes the words to stick together without the space between them? [19:36] What's this I hear about scopes being depreciated for stable Xenial? I find that rather upsetting tbh :( and how e.g. would GUI app choosing work then? @mariogrip @Flohack @neothethird @UniversalSuperBox [19:39] @TartanSpartan, The app drawer that's in the newer unity8 already in 16.04 [19:40] Can I get a screenshot please? [19:40] @Fuseteam, What do you mean exactly? as in maintaining the core scopes APIs and such? [19:41] And could we have IDK maybe a democratic vote for the whole community to decide whether to keep or dump scopes? [19:41] Or consultations? [19:41] @TartanSpartan, https://youtu.be/mH1x51w76Uw?t=111 [19:42] @TartanSpartan, software isn't a democracy, so i don't see what such a thing would gain. scopes add a lot of complexity and maintenance cost, for no real gain [19:42] there's nothing saying scopes couldn't come back later in some other form either [19:42] but really, the best way forward right now, would be to drop them [19:43] The fact that we're an open source and sustainable OS community would suggest democratic principles, IMO. [19:44] The scopes which still work e.g. OMGUbuntu (regardless of Joey's editorial policy), Music, Videos etc work great for me. [19:45] @TartanSpartan, No. It suggest anyone can contribute. It doesn't suggest everyone gets to decide what other people work one [19:45] Could there be a YMMV element there? [19:45] what benefit do you have from the music scope, over just using the music app? [19:46] I don't use it much over the music app, admittedly, but it' nice to have the option. [19:46] but *why* ? [19:47] *why not*? [19:47] Of course, the Videos scope is good for a quick thumbnail preview (and playback preview) which is faster than File Manager or whatever. [19:48] By all means drop non-functional scopes, the defunct internet feeds for which might not be accessible or replacable by Ubports. But don't kill stuff that works, and which *some* users enjoy. [19:49] @TartanSpartan, i've answered that [19:50] Just thought of a usecase for Music. I can skip easily (and visually) between different tracks, from different albums, without having to navigate between different directories as I would with the music app. And the music app occasionally has hiccups e.g. with new track importing. [19:50] @TartanSpartan, Nothing can ever change, with that attitude. Some users will always prefer something that other users do not [19:51] Why not provide the app drawer alongside the scopes? [19:51] @TartanSpartan, The music scope and music app display the same results, so if there is a "hiccup" with importing, it will be visible in both places. As for UX issues, that sounds like bugs that should be fixed/improved [19:53] On multiple computing form factors, there can be multiple methods of launching applications, they need not be constrained when choice (between a select few, tried and tested) is a good thing to offer. [19:53] @TartanSpartan, This sounds like the solution is to make using apps faster, not to use their slowness as an excuse for complex code that increases burden on developers [19:53] CLI launch, scopes, app drawer. Trifecta of neat/nifty. [19:54] that is your opinion [19:54] And your contrarian view is your's. I respect that, but I'd also dig to read justification/potential for discussion from others, including the devs I tagged upthread. [19:55] besides, 99% of the scopes are already gone, since they aren't in the store [19:55] We know that just as with clicks or anything else in OpenStore, if we bring scope developers into the fold, they can be provided there too. [19:56] getting rid of the dash will free up RAM, too [19:56] nobody really wanted to develop scopes when canonical was supporting this stuff, because they are a tremendous pain to develop [19:56] What factor of RAM saving would be on the table? [19:56] so why would devs want to build them now? [19:57] @TartanSpartan, i don't have an e4.5, so i don't know how much RAM unity8-dash is using there [19:57] Is something bad because there is less or should there be less if it is bad? These are different things .. :-) [19:57] but more than 0, and less than 1GB, at least :) [19:58] But I guess on the other hand the scopes I've mentioned seem nicely stable anyway. They don't need feature enhancements, at least AFAICS, so maintaining them doesn't go much beyond simply porting the code to Xenial. Again, AFAICS & IMO. [19:58] unity8-dash is using ~72 MB on my nexus 4 [19:59] I don't follow your question sorry Jyoti. [19:59] so i think it's safe to say not having the dash would help provide a smoother experience on lower end devices [20:00] getting rid of the dash also means getting rid of the hacks for seeing the background [20:01] Fairly trivial then compared to heavy apps, but fair enough. I know you've always advocated optimisation for lower end hardware, and touche, but of course that debate has been had before and is ongoing. I don't have a horse there really because I need minimum 2GB RAM and the more the better. [20:01] @TartanSpartan, I just wanted to say that the fact that there are less scopes and less devs working on them does not cause scopes to automatically be considered something bad ... [20:01] ubports doesn't have a few hundred developers working on the core system, and probably won't for a very long time, if ever [20:02] and certainly they aren't working on it full time [20:02] Ok, I agree Jyoti. [20:02] so removing extraneous things which don't directly help with the primary goal, in the shorter term, is the best way forward [20:03] @Jyoti, scopes themselves aren't inherently bad, but the interface for using them is, and developing them is quite difficult, so it's not a worthwhile endeavor to preserve them and ensure they continue working [20:04] even if the code doesn't need to change, if they're there, someone really has to be testing them with every OTA and such [20:04] otherwise we'd just be shipping stuff that we have no idea whether it works or not [20:04] But again, if say the sole maintenance of Libertine-Scope by @DanChapman is porting it to Xenial and it won't need feature enhancements/bug fixes thereafter (because it doesn't on Vivid), is that really extraneous or a developer resources sink? [20:04] To me, that screams a "one off and straightforward job". [20:05] I understand that the devs had to have priorities [20:05] @TartanSpartan, libertine scope is not needed with app drawer [20:05] app drawer has all your apps [20:05] Does app drawer explicitly differentiate between clicks and Libertine apps? [20:06] no [20:06] Shouldn't it? Some apps might look identical on first glance between the two forms. [20:06] nor does it differentiate between deb installed apps and clicks [20:06] (the apps scope doesn't differentiate between debs and clicks either, though) [20:07] @TartanSpartan, well you can have the same app installed in multiple containers too, and it doesn't visualize which app is from which container [20:07] i grant you there are still some improvements needed in it, but it's the right way forward there [20:09] I still think an opt-in opt-out preference for scopes would be sweet, and as with other things I would be willing to contribute to crowdfunding to keep them going. [20:10] I never really got what 'scopes' are about but my impression is that it is a blanket term for a variety of rather different things. I am not sure that 'Scopes, for and against' means very much. Carrots and carrots - discuss. But not 'vegetables' [20:10] [Edit] I never really got what 'scopes' are about but my impression is that it is a blanket term for a variety of rather different things. I am not sure that 'Scopes, for and against' means very much. Carrots and cabbages - discuss. But not 'vegetables' [20:11] If someone has a list of all the functional vs unfunctional scopes and accessible vs orphaned scopes (some people have archives of clicks, and perhaps also scopes?) they would be BAMF for helping focus support efforts, if my hopes were to go ahead. Would at the very least make for interesting reading in the history of Ubuntu T [20:11] ouch. [20:13] @Stereofont, Nobody understands them really, which is why they're problematic [20:14] The base concept makes sense, no? A hub/feed for a specific field of interest, or another way of viewing/running an app. [20:14] no [20:14] well that is not the base concept [20:14] hence the problem [20:14]