[05:21] <Scary_Guy> cmaloney, thanks for reminding me about our impending doom.  even if we solve death somehow we either need to escape this universe into a new dimension or break the laws of thermodynamics and create energy from nothing
[05:23] <Scary_Guy> we all get to die three times.  first when we actually die, then when we get thought about for the last time, and finally when the energy that made up us is frozen in a block of ice at absolute zero
[05:24] <Scary_Guy> well, that's my hypothesis anyway
[05:25] <Scary_Guy> and no, nihilism is not as fun as it sounds :-(
[11:55] <_stink__> that'll get you going on a friday morning
[13:01] <cmaloney> heh
[13:01] <cmaloney> good am
[13:20] <Scary_Guy> morning
[13:49] <jrwren> Good Morning
[14:28] <jrwren> rick_h: https://medium.com/delightful-treats/nest-video-doorbell-first-impressions-a-surprise-ending-2bbba9adf810  ut oh
[14:32] <cmaloney> Surprise ending?
[14:32] <cmaloney> What could be surprising about this?
[14:33] <Scary_Guy> well, I don't think he expected it with the other two services working fine
[14:33] <Scary_Guy> not that Next might be an inferior device, it may have just been the one active when the transformer decided to blow.  they don't last forever, nothing does
[14:36] <jrwren> nearly burning down his house is a surprise.
[14:37] <jrwren> rick_h isn't wiring his to a transformer anyway, so we don't have to worry about him.
[14:37] <Scary_Guy> it's in the Nest firmware, so if you piss them off or cancel they just burn down your house
[14:37] <jrwren> Scary_Guy: wow... or... hackers get root on it and just run commands to increase power draw and BAM, house burning down.
[14:37] <jrwren> internet of shit at its finest.
[14:39] <Scary_Guy> because just how many sci-fi movies where the smart house tries to kill its owner are there?  Oh and that Outer Limits episode.  Pretty sure there's a trope for this
[14:40] <cmaloney> At it's basest trope is man vs. machine
[14:40] <cmaloney> but yeah, house-connected eqquipment vs.man
[14:42] <jrwren> House is one of the best comedy horror movies of all time. There. I said it.
[14:45] <Scary_Guy> yeah, but that's supernatural based
[14:45] <Scary_Guy> I'm thinking more like Electric Dreams
[14:45] <Scary_Guy> or Fortress
[14:45] <jrwren> ha! Fortress!
[14:46] <Scary_Guy> that's the movie that inspired me to make my keyboard chair
[14:48] <jrwren> hey, I actually have an ubuntu question!
[14:49] <Scary_Guy> https://imgur.com/a/WqwHR is a lot like mine
[14:49] <Scary_Guy> well, I have those same arm rest attachments that the keyboard(s) sit on
[14:49] <jrwren> when I run ubuntu on a certified cloud, the cloud image automagically has the cloud tools for that cloud. e.g. amazon cli tools in ec2, azure cli tools in azure, gcloud in google compute.  But if I am running docker images based on ubuntu, I don't get that. What are the names of the packages for each certified cloud?
[14:49] <jrwren> I should ask on askubuntu.
[14:50] <Scary_Guy> you'd probably cast a wider net that's for sure
[15:09] <jrwren> ya know what would be really interesting if some samba client apps started accepting port number and we rant it over the internet, like SFTP only better and faster.
[16:01] <cmaloney> I'm not sure I would trust Samba over the internet like that. :)
[16:01] <cmaloney> (though I'm likely misunderstanding the sentiment)
[16:01] <jrwren> cmaloney: why not? modern samba is very secure.
[16:02] <jrwren> cmaloney: I'm talking encrypted SMB3 only.
[16:02] <cmaloney> Samba always felt a little too promiscuous to me
[16:03] <cmaloney> partly because it seemed to announce itself on the network and say "hey, I'm a file server!"
[16:03] <jrwren> you have to let go of your feelings.
[16:03] <cmaloney> and that felt like a prelude to disaster
[16:03] <jrwren> hahaha, except EVERYTHING announces itself now.
[16:03] <cmaloney> I still haven't forgiven Bon Jour. ;)
[16:03] <jrwren> SSDP and upnp and so on.
[16:03] <jrwren> no mdns for you?
[16:03] <cmaloney> God, upnp is a disaster imho
[16:04] <jrwren> dlna!
[16:04] <cmaloney> Stahp
[16:04] <cmaloney> Next you're going to say that whatever they used on routers to automatically pair them was a great idea.
[16:04]  * cmaloney is blanking on the acronym
[16:04] <jrwren> I let go of my smb1 past because i learned long ago not to consider the past, only the here and now.
[16:05] <jrwren> e.g. My team lead once prefered telnet to ssh because ssh once had a security whole which allowed access for all and telnet didn't.
[16:05] <jrwren> WPS.  no, i've never WPS. neveer, not even once.
[16:05] <cmaloney> Right, but I have a hard time with MS protocols because they tend to treat security as a secondary level of access
[16:05] <cmaloney> Yeah, WPS.
[16:06] <cmaloney> God, that's a clusterfuck
[16:06] <jrwren> I don't even consider SMB2 or SMB3 as MSFT protocols. I guess I'm crazy like that.
[16:06] <jrwren> And their treatment of security as secondary hasnt' been true in about 15yrs.
[16:07] <cmaloney> Um, weren't they responsible for pushing upnp?
[16:07] <cmaloney> maybe I'm mis-attributing that to them
[16:07] <jrwren> yeah, I dont' know.
[16:07] <cmaloney> but it seemed they were at the forefront of pushing protocols that did things that were transparent to the user that could damage security
[16:07] <jrwren> I know very little about upnp
[16:08] <cmaloney> and upnp seemed at the forefront of that. :)
[16:08] <jrwren> You mean like automatically pass your windows login password as the password to connect to remote shares?  I always loved that feature :)
[16:08] <cmaloney> yyyyeaahhh.
[16:09] <cmaloney> http://www.upnp-hacks.org/
[16:09] <jrwren> Conficker!!!
[16:10] <jrwren> still, "SANE 2006"  I said 15 yrs, but that was only 12. so sorry.
[16:10] <cmaloney> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/to-prevent-hacking-disable-universal-plug-and-play-now/
[16:10] <cmaloney> I mean, these are old, but they seem to describe a pattern of ease-of-use vs security
[16:11] <cmaloney> "There are a number of articles describing how many UPnP capable routers don't check if an IP is internal before opening the ports. You can knock from the outside to open say, 3389 and scan through the typical LAN addresses to see if anyone is home. "
[16:11] <cmaloney> A lot of it is naive implementations of standard protocols
[16:11] <jrwren> so... that is routers, not MSFT, right?
[16:11] <cmaloney> right
[16:12] <cmaloney> But again, it's the promiscuous nature of the protocol that gives me pause
[16:12] <jrwren> you are projecting that.
[16:12] <cmaloney> Not that it's a unique problem of Microsoft, to be fair
[16:12] <jrwren> there is absolutely nothing promiscuous about smb3
[16:12] <cmaloney> Maybe it is
[16:13] <cmaloney> but that's something I'm having a hard time shaking
[16:13] <cmaloney> I really don't like CIFS / Samba
[16:13] <cmaloney> and that's likely in part because I don't understand it and I don't trust it
[16:13] <cmaloney> but then again I trust NFS, so that is likely misplaced trust as well. ;)
[16:13] <cmaloney> (and not even NFS v4)
[16:15] <jrwren> ha! yeah.
[16:15] <jrwren> if you trust an untrusted host to mount NFS shares, you REALLY need to learn why not to.
[16:15] <cmaloney> Oh absolutely
[16:15] <jrwren> SMB on the other hand is built for that.
[16:15] <cmaloney> I don't trust untrusted hosts with NFS
[16:16] <cmaloney> but I haven't gone to the level of NFSv4 because ugh
[16:18] <jrwren> right.
[16:18] <jrwren> this is why i like smb so much. less complexity than a secure nfs, and just as secure.
[16:18] <jrwren> and its FAST
[17:46] <jrwren> why is https://packages.cloud.google.com/apt/doc/apt-key.gpg empty on one client and non empty on antoehr client?
[17:48] <cmaloney> CDN?
[17:51] <jrwren> must be.
[17:51] <jrwren> same client network even.