[03:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:02] <JimBuntu> It's Friday! YAY!
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> yayy
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> hey JimBuntu
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[05:25] <saabstory88> Does anyone here have experience moving an adobe creative suite workflow over to ubuntu in a profressional setting?
[05:29] <saabstory88> Our company is getting to the point where Microsoft's OS is so locked down that even the enterprise version is unacceptable, and we can't buy powerful enough Macs
[05:30] <JimBuntu> Can't buy powerful enough macs is a common issue.... resolved easily/obviously.
[05:31] <Lin-Buo-Ren> It depends on the "professional setting", the workflow still has to adapt to Ubuntu and Ubuntu-compatible application counterparts.
[05:32] <saabstory88> We are ready to pay for software and hardware, our largest obstacle at this point is feature set
[05:35] <saabstory88> JimBuntu: What do you mean?
[05:41] <JimBuntu> saabstory88, About the "can't buy powerful enough macs" statement? I mean that it's common for companies to realize they should have a generic Linux farm instead of trying to buy tons of Apple products to do the same task... as in rendering/etc.
[05:43] <saabstory88> I wish our firm was large enough to support such a solution. We are a little to small to buy into Foundry software
[05:45] <saabstory88> Another issues is portability. My laptop had enough brunt (i6700k, gtx980, 64gbram, win7/ubuntu) for a lot of the live event rendering work we do, but Win7 is starting to have issues with new software updates
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> saabstory88: contact canonical?
[05:47] <saabstory88> About rendering software?
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> saabstory88: about helping your company professionally
[05:49] <saabstory88> Do they provide help to small firms? (8 employees)
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> sure
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> and youl get much cheaper then windows support
[05:51] <saabstory88> Well they can't be worse than Microsoft support. MS doesn't even seem interested in dealing with a firm our size
[05:56] <Lin-Buo-Ren> lmao
[06:02] <saabstory88> It's really frustrating. I've been using Ubuntu for a couple years now as my home operating system, and when developing special applications for work. A good bit of our work is tethered to software which only runs in MacOS and Windows. Apple can't make powerful hardware, and Windows gives you no control over the OS.
[06:09] <lotuspsychje> this is where ubuntu comes :p
[06:09] <lotuspsychje> !canonical
[07:08] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:31] <EriC^^> morning lordievader , how's it going?
[07:32] <lordievader> Doing good here :)
[07:34] <ducasse> good morning, everyone
[07:34] <lordievader> Hey ducasse
[07:34] <lordievader> How are you doing, EriC^^ ducasse ?
[07:35] <ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you?
[07:35] <EriC^^> morning ducasse
[07:35] <ducasse> fine here, thanks
[07:35] <lordievader> Doing good :)
[07:35] <EriC^^> lordievader: doing good here
[07:35] <ducasse> hi EriC^^
[07:35] <lordievader> Phone got updated to Oreo this morning 😁
[07:37] <lordievader> Not that I notice  whole lot of difference this time around.
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice1
[10:26] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:27] <ducasse> hi BluesKaj - how are you today?
[10:28] <BluesKaj> hey ducasse, doing ok, and you ?
[10:29] <ducasse> all good here, about to have lunch soon
[10:35] <BluesKaj> morning coffee and some hardtack with peanut butter here
[10:36] <BluesKaj> sorta my morning routine before breakfast
[17:30] <TJ-> This is sounding good. https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2018/03/23/a-new-era-for-linux-low-level-graphics-part-2/
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> good weekend to all
[18:16] <daftykins> and to you! :D
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> well thank you :p
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> crowdy week pfff
[18:18] <daftykins> busy times?
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah too many hours at work
[18:18] <daftykins> ouch
[18:49] <pragmaticenigma> allo lotuspsychje
[18:49] <lotuspsychje> welcome pragmaticenigma
[18:50] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: we talk & share about ubuntu & more here
[18:51] <lotuspsychje> for a better support experience
[18:53] <pragmaticenigma> Cool... question, saw an article about Gnome Desktop having a bit of a memory leak. has there been any suggestions on how to mitigate/work-around it?
[18:53] <lotuspsychje> yeah omgubuntu had this article right
[18:53] <daftykins> sounds like a support query to me
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> i invited pragmaticenigma here daftykins
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> he helping support
[18:54] <daftykins> right but it doesn't make this chan for the support :>
[18:55] <kostkon> pragmaticenigma, i've got one. don't use it :P
[18:55] <pragmaticenigma> works for me
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/03/gnome-shell-has-a-memory-leak-and-it-might-not-be-fixed-for-ubuntu-18-04-lts
[18:56] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: bit weird advice, knowing thousands of users will get into bionic soon
[18:56] <pragmaticenigma> don't plan on updating right away... wait until the first update to 18.04
[18:56] <lotuspsychje> i got all my boxes 18.04 already :p
[18:57] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, and that'll mean more support work for us right?
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: yes indeed :p
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> a month from now we get 2000 users in here
[18:58] <daftykins> i don't think users move that fast :)
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> youl see youl see :p
[18:59] <kostkon> we've never gone past that afaik but we are gonna almost hit that
[19:00] <kostkon> 1800-1900 range surely
[19:01] <pragmaticenigma> With the switch back to Gnome desktop, I have a feeling a lot of users will be returning
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: before ubuntu-unregged trick we had 1900+ indeed
[19:02] <pragmaticenigma> at least those that like the gnome 3 desktop
[19:02] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: now its climbing back slowly
[19:02] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: yeah alot of unity boxes will get the choice to upgrade
[19:03] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, yeah there's been some increase in users already
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: support feels liek supprt again now heh
[19:03] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, say that again. good old times
[19:03] <TJ-> grrrr, quiet is best!
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> and with TJ- we can have them all!
[19:04] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, more activity, more spam, more angry people
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> more joy, more community feeling :p
[19:05] <TJ-> Have you seen the list of open bugs for major packages that are going to hit us when people start upgading to 18.04? It's going to be horrible I tell ya!
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> agree on that1 TJ-
[19:05] <daftykins> s'all about waiting for that .1 release :)
[19:05] <TJ-> Dropping of ifupdown is already throwing some issues up, especially in those that try to help themselves first and copy instructions from old wiki/web pages
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> wayland not ready, gnome memory leak..slow systemd..slow overal gnome system,..
[19:06] <lotuspsychje> did i forget some?
[19:06] <TJ-> netplan supporting very few scenarios
[19:06] <daftykins> Wayland arguably doesn't matter though
[19:07] <pragmaticenigma> wayland isn't being installed by default fortunately... hopefully that will reduce some of the support
[19:07] <tomreyn> don't people upgrading from 17.10 get to keep wayland?
[19:07] <TJ-> systemd-resolved taking over  - had an issue earlier where it and N.M.'s dnsmasq were active, but /etc/resolv.conf had 127.0.0.53 (the systemd-resolved listener) which hadn't configure the interface, so there was no DNS resolution
[19:07] <pragmaticenigma> I believe when upgrading things stay in place
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: no, 18.04 will result in xorg by default
[19:07] <TJ-> I thought Wayland is installed but not the default?
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> on 17.10 wayland is still default
[19:08] <pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje, but tomreyn is asking about upgrades
[19:08] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: also on upgrades then?
[19:08] <lotuspsychje> i should suspect so
[19:08] <daftykins> honestly things seem like such a mess compared to 14.04 days :)
[19:08] <lotuspsychje> 16.04 was the best
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> installed it on tons of machines
[19:09] <daftykins> think it took a while to get sane, 16.04
[19:10] <pragmaticenigma> 16.04 is when I came back to the Ubuntu image... otherwise I had been on Xubuntu for quite a few years, if only because mythbuntu that was what came by default
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: devs wont risk nvidia boxes result in wayland session on upgrade right?
[19:10] <TJ-> I like 18.04 on the server side... but the desktop turmoil is horrible
[19:10] <daftykins> TJ-: +1 glad to not use desktop really for that reason xD
[19:10] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: i do not know.
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> we didnt hear about unity news yet neither?
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> how great will it survive on bionic
[19:11] <TJ-> yeah, as you know I work from console/terminal most of the time anyhow so I don't need or want fancy GUI effects
[19:11] <kostkon> and canonical went from trying to create the best desktop in the world to being completely indifferent about it and that's terrible. hence now the mess with gnome shell
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i need a lightweight, stable desktop for my customers
[19:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'd guess it'll wither and die eventually now Canonical no longer puts resources into it
[19:11] <pragmaticenigma> I wish the GUI had at least two modes... Get stuff done mode and Sparkles (effects) mode
[19:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: XFCE/Xubuntu :)
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: never :p
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> underkill for normal machines in my opinion
[19:12] <TJ-> I measured all the desktops for 'light weight' and xubuntu just beat Lubuntu
[19:12] <pragmaticenigma> only reason I dropped XFCE/Xubuntu was I got tired of not having an easy method of adding new applications to the applications menu
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> ill file bugs until they get it straight
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> +1 pragmaticenigma
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> i dont like that either
[19:13] <TJ-> new applications are automatically added from their .desktop files
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> i like lubuntu xenial best under lightweights
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> we will see what the future brings, and how the mass reacts under gnome
[19:15] <TJ-> budgie seems to be gaining some traction
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> yeah budgie is interesting
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> but i think they should at least fix vanilla ubuntu desktop for normal use right
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> doesnt that sound logical
[19:17] <lotuspsychje> anyway tv time here,
[19:17] <lotuspsychje> i wish you all a great weekend
[19:17] <daftykins> and you sir \o
[19:18] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, "Midnight Run" this is your friday movie for this week
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: !rootirc is your-new-factoid-text-here in ubottu query
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> kostkon: lol
[19:18] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, yeap
[19:18] <TJ-> No money in desktop that's the problem... once SABDFL realised 'convergence' wasn't going to get Ubuntu onto millions of tablets and smartphones and therefore there's no income stream, GUI priority dropped - money is in Cloud and Enterprise, MAAS, Landscape, support subscriptions, deployments, etc.
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> laterz ; )
[19:20] <TJ-> Desktop is effectively a loss-leader to win mind-share, rather like how Microsoft gave students free/discount Windows/Office so they'd want to use it when they got into the workplace
[19:21] <kostkon> it's not even a loss making now since red hat is paying for it
[19:23] <TJ-> there's still a lot of Ubuntu-introduced bugs too due to 'Unity look n feel' - I was looking at the list for gnome-software a few days ago and it is scary!
[19:23] <daftykins> i wonder how bad subiquity is :)
[19:23] <TJ-> gnome-software with added features for snap discovery, ubuntu channels, etc
[19:32] <pragmaticenigma> 18.04, if gnome is no good at time of -do-release-upgrade... I will choose either KDE or LXDE
[19:33] <pragmaticenigma> I honestly will drop to the un-unityfied gnome for 18.04 baring the memory leak doesn't get fixed
[19:34] <daftykins> i'm sure it will, do you not wait for the .1 release anyway to wait for a new release to approach some semblance or reliability?
[19:34] <pragmaticenigma> TJ-, one would think .desktop would auto pickup... the problem was... where did it need to go? the normal drop points did find it
[19:34] <daftykins> version number chasers always get burnt and with good reason
[19:34] <pragmaticenigma> *normal drop point didn't find it
[19:34] <pragmaticenigma> daftykins, I will wait till my system says the --do-release-upgraede is available. which is usually the .01 release
[19:35] <TJ-> pragmaticenigma: packages install it to /usr/share/applications/ ... locally built packages to /usr/local/share/applications/  per-user in $HOME/.local/share/applications/
[19:35] <pragmaticenigma> TJ-, must have been something in the spin I was using, it never found those for some reason
[19:36] <pragmaticenigma> daftykins, I may stick on 16.04 for a year. Anything that I need bleeding edge for is either self compiled or installed from vendor package
[19:37] <TJ-> I've just started upgrading all mine to 18.04 yesterday. Server's first, they're easiest
[19:37] <daftykins> yeah LTS to LTS
[19:37] <TJ-> but still got to maintain my own build of apache2 which is a pain
[19:38] <pragmaticenigma> TJ-, reduced feature set? or enhancing?
[19:38] <TJ-> I want mod_md
[19:39] <TJ-> that's the support for the ACME protocol so Let's Encrypt is built into apache, not an external tool
[19:40] <TJ-> now Let's Encrypt is isuing wildcard certificates too there's not many sites where it won't be the default choice
[19:40] <TJ-> biggest upgrade I've got to herd is a very active cluster of postfix mail server
[19:42] <pragmaticenigma> oh, neat, I didn't know apache could manage the ACME protocol directly. I'm currently happy with the cronjob method of updating
[19:42] <daftykins> you don't even need to manually set that up if you have certbot installed which i make use of
[19:44] <pragmaticenigma> come to think of it... not sure how I have installed at the moment
[19:45] <pragmaticenigma> it was whatever was documented at the time of install in June of 2016
[19:45] <daftykins> i waited for the first renewal date but then saw it had automatically been done xD was quite handy!
[19:45] <TJ-> daftykins: yeah, I just want to have the entire config managed within apache config files
[19:46] <pragmaticenigma> yeah, I've been happy with the autorenewal. i'm glad they made that a priority. more users using the autorenewal, the better the expiration of a ssl when it's no longer used
[19:46] <pragmaticenigma> expiration of the cert
[19:46] <TJ-> each vhost 443 SSLEngine On then includes it's own certificate logic
[19:46] <daftykins> makes sense!
[19:47] <daftykins> how does it work if you have one for a www.domain.tld now and want to swap to a wildcard, do you have to wait for it to end then re-request? i've not even looked into it
[19:47] <pragmaticenigma> I only use one, and since I make use of dynamic-dns address service, really only can operate one site, no wildcards
[19:47] <daftykins> ah, i got a cheap domain and run nextcloud from home
[19:48] <daftykins> the domain registrar includes an updater client to allow dynamic DNS :)
[19:48] <pragmaticenigma> mine is primarily so i can run openVpn server
[19:48] <daftykins> ah yeah
[19:48] <daftykins> i do that with a DigitalOcean VPS
[19:48] <TJ-> in mod_md it uses the <MDomainSet> directive
[19:49] <pragmaticenigma> My router now has OpenVPN server built in, I usually use the VPN to access local network stuff
[19:49] <pragmaticenigma> the hard part was figuring out the routing so i can access both the internet and my local network dns
[19:49] <pragmaticenigma> in the tunnel
[19:49] <TJ-> I've just started with wireguard in place of openvpn; so far, so good
[19:49] <daftykins> i just disable the default gateway changing directive so i have subnet access and still browse from where i am
[19:50] <daftykins> depends if that's what you want though of course
[19:50] <pragmaticenigma> i send all traffic through the VPN if it's connected
[19:50] <pragmaticenigma> I also use it so I can hop onto public wifi and minimize nosy people snarfing on my packets
[19:51] <daftykins> :) are you using the easy-rsa key setup scripts and so on?
[19:51] <TJ-> openvpn using udp transport and TA also protects against DoS attacks
[19:51] <daftykins> i bumped up the crypto pretty high on my instances
[19:52] <pragmaticenigma> daftykins, for me? no... I currently have username/password authentication enabled... haven't had time to look into documenation for the client certs yet
[19:52] <daftykins> eek
[19:53] <daftykins> if the cypher strength is on default it might be bad :>
[19:53] <daftykins> cipher o0
[20:02] <daftykins> why does my cat like to stand on my lap and headbut my mouse arm? :)
[20:03] <EriC^^> :)
[20:05] <pragmaticenigma> if a cat is present when human is on computer, cat must "help" human... it's the law of the universe
[20:06] <daftykins> :D
[20:38] <pragmaticenigma> daftykins, it looks like the OpenVPN configuration requires the client have the Server Cert in order to make a connection. There are client certs, just the export/importing/exporting/importing seem daunting at the moment
[20:39] <daftykins> pragmaticenigma: you can actually streamline all the relevant certs and keys into a single .ovpn profile file, for ease of use
[20:39] <daftykins> though it would require starting over perhaps, i'd recommend this one - https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-an-openvpn-server-on-ubuntu-16-04
[21:04] <JimBuntu> daftykins, I highly recommend this ( and do this)
[21:04] <JimBuntu> no need to start over
[21:31] <pragmaticenigma> i'm familiar with that one daftykins ... except openvpn lives on my router, synology
[22:12] <Bashing-om> Friday Support ??
[22:52] <pragmaticenigma> hmm?
[22:54] <Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: Support - week end - looks slow .
[23:15] <pragmaticenigma> until ghostrider graces us.. then it gets exciting
[23:17] <Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: Well, exciting is not the term I would employ :) .. Better you than me as I have little patience in such an event .
[23:28] <pragmaticenigma> I've given up on them once before, and just made them wait for someone else to attempt to help
[23:29] <pragmaticenigma> Don't know if the time alowed cooler heads to prevail or just someone had the right touch to get them to be more helpful to the situation
[23:37] <Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: Uh Huh .. calm down, think --- patience : works wonders :)