[01:28] <jusss> gnome 3.28 is available now?
[01:36] <Fudge> is it me or is there something wrong with mirrors?
[01:36] <Fudge> E: Failed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gcc-defaults/cpp_7.3.0-1ubuntu2_i386.deb  403  Forbidden [IP: 202.158.214.106 80]
[01:44] <Bashing-om> !info cpp-7
[02:02] <Fudge> it's doing it with all packages dur for install
[02:03] <Fudge> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6QxDXWb2D9/
[03:11] <Fudge> this is what I have left that I can not install, all 403   cpp gcc geoip-database gvfs-bin gvfs-common
[04:01] <tyoc213> Hi there, if I want the latest LTS in april... but I need to install ubuntu ¨right now¨
[04:01] <tyoc213> how I will go to update to taht LTS???
[04:03] <tsimonq2> tyoc213: If you install 16.04, you can easily update once 18.04.1 comes out.
[04:04] <tsimonq2> You'll get a popup message, and when you're ready, you can click the Upgrade button.
[04:05] <tyoc213> if I install a non LTS???
[04:05] <tyoc213> it will be the same? or only from LTS to LTS???
[04:06] <tsimonq2> Same story.
[04:06] <tyoc213> OK
[04:06] <tyoc213> thx
[04:06] <tsimonq2> No problem, have a nice day, tyoc213.
[04:06] <tyoc213> same
[04:06] <tsimonq2> Thanks.
[04:07] <tyoc213> :)
[12:17] <happy_hacker> ikonia: exactly, but you post the same kind of accusatory stuff there; and you get shot down by folks who know better
[13:27] <jusss> how I can upgrade gnome 3.26 to 3.28?
[13:28] <lotuspsychje> jusss: keep your system up to date
[13:28] <jusss> lotuspsychje: how ? aptitude upgrade?
[13:28] <lotuspsychje> jusss: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[13:28] <jusss> ok
[13:29] <lotuspsychje> !final | jusss 
[13:30] <jusss> ubottu: lotuspsychje can I just upgrade gnome? because my kernel is made by me
[13:30] <lotuspsychje> jusss: lets start from the beginning, wich ubuntu version are you on now?
[13:30] <jusss> lotuspsychje: I don't want to upgrade my kernel, is that possible
[13:30] <jusss> lotuspsychje: bionic
[13:31] <lotuspsychje> jusss: keep using older kernels is a security risk
[13:31] <jusss> lotuspsychje: I know, but my hardware driver are not common
[13:31] <lotuspsychje> jusss: wich kernel are you on now?
[13:32] <jusss> lotuspsychje: 4.15.0
[13:32] <jusss> it's not very old
[13:32] <jusss> so it is possible?
[13:33] <lotuspsychje> jusss: bionic will keep 4.15 kernel and update . versions
[13:35] <jusss> lotuspsychje: I don't understand
[13:35] <flocculant> would it not be wise to report the issue you have - so that the kernel is updated to include what you need - even if it's not common - unless you made it all yourself then someone somewhere might benefit
[13:36] <jusss> I run ubuntu bionic on a x86-64 intel atom tablet, so it's not common or popular, 
[13:36] <flocculant> jusss: so?
[13:36] <jusss> but it is x86-64, so almost works well
[13:37] <flocculant> that's no reason to not report it
[13:38] <flocculant> I mean if you can't be bothered that's fine - as long as you know it works both ways ;)
[13:40] <jusss> flocculant: there's a guy did a document for that on github, and I don't think kernel stuff will do something about intel atom tablet, because intel atom chips is dead
[13:40] <TJ-> The gnome versions issue is confusing; Release Notes is cryptic: "Apps provided by GNOME have been updated to 3.28. " --- implying there's a difference between 'apps' and 'core' ?
[13:40] <TJ-> jusss: if kernel support is broken then kernel developers want to know and want to fix it
[13:41] <TJ-> jusss: if however your particular device has additional hardware devices that only have out-of-tree modules (drivers) that's something else
[13:41] <TJ-> jusss: for the latter situation the modules should be packaged using DKMS so they can be rebuilt against a newly installed kernel
[13:42] <jusss> look, I just want to know just upgrade gnome without others is ok or not, there're so many people do thing about atom chips, I think they have alrady effected kernel
[13:43] <jusss> TJ-: my hardware are out of the official linux modules
[13:44] <TJ-> Most of the gnome-* core packages look to be 3.28 already
[13:44] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: just nautilus will remain 3.26 for desktop icons right
[13:45] <jusss> TJ-: lotuspsychje if I run `aptitude install gnome` can it upgrade to 3.28?
[13:45] <jusss> now I'm on 3.26
[13:46] <TJ-> gnome-session and gnome-shell show as 3.28 here
[13:46] <jusss> I just want to upgrade gnome, like on archlinux I can run `pacman -S gnome` it will upgrade
[13:46] <jusss> re-install will upgrade to date, but I don't know it is the same on ubuntu?
[13:47] <lotuspsychje> yeah 3.28 here also
[13:47] <TJ-> " apt list 'gnome*' | grep 3\.28 | sort -r | less"
[13:48] <TJ-> jusss: lastest packages are installed with "sudo apt upgrade" - but usually if unattended-upgrades is installed mostly it's done in the background
[13:50] <jusss> TJ-: I don't know why you guys are so obbessed about upgrade all packages, what if there're some bugs on new packages
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> !bug
[13:50] <jusss> why not just upgrade what you need
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> jusss: thats not how ubuntu works
[13:50] <TJ-> jusss: upgraded packages contain bug-fixes. That's how Ubuntu works. In a release no new features are added, only bug-fixes applied
[13:51] <jusss> lotuspsychje: so ubuntu is a kind of 'archlinux' now?
[13:51] <TJ-> jusss: thats why we have 6-monthly releases... newer upstream versions go into the next release
[13:51] <TJ-> jusss: This is how Ubuntu always has been, since 2004. Based on how Debian does it but with a faster release cadence
[13:52] <jusss> why ubuntu has so many package manager? apt apt-get aptitutde apt-cache apt-whatever
[13:52] <jusss> oh, I forget dpkg
[13:52] <TJ-> jusss: every 2 years, in April, a new Long Term Release comes out. This april 18.04 Bionic will be an LTS
[13:54] <jusss> I heard of lots of about old versions to latest version via upgrading, and there're lots of problems, and people's suggest is just re-install latest ubuntu is better
[13:54] <TJ-> jusss: dpkg is the debian package manager for packages already on the local system; apt-get is the scriptable repository-aware package fetcher. apt is the user front end to apt-get. aptitude is a CLI ncurses based interface to apt
[13:55] <TJ-> apt tools all use dpkg to actually do package installation/removal
[13:56] <jusss> I wonder is there a feature like 'pacman -Fs' on apt-stuff
[13:56] <lotuspsychje> jusss: in all cases, we reccomend to keep your system up to date, fully
[13:56] <jusss> get the package's name via search one command the package contain
[13:57] <jusss> I don't think apt-cache or apt-file can do this well
[13:59] <TJ-> jusss: apt-cache search ....
[13:59] <lotuspsychje> howarth: thats correct
[14:00] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-walppapers | howarth 
[14:00] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-wallpapers
[14:00] <howarth> ii  ubuntu-wallpapers-bionic                   18.04.0-0ubuntu1                    all          Ubuntu 18.04 Wallpapers
[14:01] <lotuspsychje> howarth: yep, the 2 beaver ones added
[14:01] <howarth> and the old ones removed
[14:01] <jusss> TJ-: lotuspsychje what do you guys think of wayland or xorg? which one is better for you
[14:01] <lotuspsychje> those were artfull ones right
[14:02] <jusss> some programs won't work on wayland now
[14:02] <lotuspsychje> jusss: ive tested 3 machines on xorg & wayland, wayland very unusable for me..
[14:02] <jusss> for example like florence virtual keyboard
[14:02] <TJ-> jusss: Wayland protocol, and the implemented compositors using it (mutter, etc.) are terrible at present, nowehre near feature parity with Xorg
[14:03] <TJ-> The actual wayland protocol design is broken, as in it severely restricts use-cases that people need
[14:04] <jusss> aha, TJ- lotuspsychje where's your Mir?
[14:04] <jusss> if I remember correctly
[14:04] <jusss> upstart Mir unity... and ???
[14:05] <howarth> What is the deal with the snap releases in bionic? I was surprised to see those promoted in the Updates window over the same version from ubuntu-bionic-universe.
[14:05] <jusss> and ubuntu phone
[14:05] <howarth> err Ubuntu Software program I mean
[14:06] <howarth> Rampant use of snaps would seem a bit bloaty
[14:07] <jusss> ubuntu is so obbsessed about dropping something off
[14:07] <lotuspsychje> jusss: are you trolling us?
[14:07] <jusss> lotuspsychje: I'm just kidding
[14:08] <TJ-> howarth: It's yet more Canonical fragmentation
[14:08] <TJ-> I predict it's going to become a mess because determining if something is supported is going to require finding out where it came from
[14:08] <TJ-> I won't deal with snaps on principle
[14:10] <howarth> well it is true that Linux has tended towards tons of ways to do the same task
[14:12] <TJ-> howarth: it's not that, it's the direct support issues it brings up, since we have to check if package X might be a snap or is using the archive packages
[14:12] <howarth> like installing all of 'ubuntu-restricted-extras' to play H264 vs just installing gstreamer1.0-libav and GStreamer Multimedia Codecs
[14:12] <TJ-> it's like with PPAs but just adding another layer
[14:13] <howarth> The first gave me artifacts in playback where the second didn't for an AVI movie
[14:13] <howarth> Half of Linux support seems to be finding the least buggy option at the moment
[14:14] <howarth> So far the only worrisome thing that I have run into since installing bionic on a 2008 MacPro with HD2600XT is that a random video bug coming out of sleep.
[14:15] <howarth> On one occasion, when I woke the machine, it gave a checkboard black and white screen from which only escape was a hard reboot
[14:16] <howarth> Haven't seen that one since so hopefully it is a rare glitch
[14:23] <jusss> what is the windows manager of gnome 3.28? I cann't find title bar on any window
[14:24] <jusss> missing the buttons of max min close
[14:24] <jusss> it's metacity?
[14:31] <howarth> mutter?
[14:32] <howarth> I was just looking at the fact that compiz doesn't get installed
[14:57] <mesa> I am new to Ubuntu. Running Bionic Beaver 18.04 candidate 3-21 build date. I have a question concerning updates/upgrades. apt &  "software updater" show a list of udates available. I wonder why "Ubuntu Software" shows everything up to date? here is a screenshot. Thank in advance. https://tinyurl.com/ybwstn9j 
[14:58] <howarth> Maybe your hitting a stale mirror?
[14:59] <howarth> Have you tried 'sudo apt-get update', 'sudo apt-get upgrade' and 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' on the command line?
[14:59] <howarth> I just did a clean install on an unformatted SSD last night here with 03-21 and there were plenty of updates then and this morning.
[15:01] <mesa> I have not updated yet. I have ran 'sudo apt-get update' && 'apt list --upgradable' to see the updates available. I am assuming that apt-get and "Software Updater" are showing the same updates. My main question is wht the "Ubuntu software" shows none.  
[15:02] <mesa> s/wht/why/
[15:02] <flocculant> are the packages that are updatable even shown in Software - not sure as I don't run Ubuntu - but isn't it the case that Software doesn't show everything? and thus likely to not show all updates?
[15:04] <mesa> Could be. I'm new to Ubuntu world. Maybe Ubuntu Software ( the orange bag =) only shows 3rd party apps? I'm still reading. I'm always curious to know more about update tools. 
[15:05] <mesa> THe fact that these don't match alerted me. 
[15:05] <howarth> normally if you wait a bit I believe it should pop up the software update application with an auto-download completed
[15:05] <howarth> at least that is the behavior I've seen before with bionic
[15:06] <mesa> howarth: Have you seen the screenshot I pasted?
[15:06] <howarth> I don't overly trust the app and normally do it command line
[15:06] <mesa> Software Updater I ran manually and it shows updates available. yes.
[15:06] <howarth> ah
[15:07] <howarth> I think that sometimes you can see stale info in the Software Updater if you have already installed the updates
[15:07] <howarth> I see that if I do it on the command line after that app pops up in the dock with updates
[15:07] <howarth> It doesn't do a real-time check to verify that things still need to be installed
[15:08] <howarth> but will just show what was needed when it was launched
[15:08] <mesa> howarth: fwiw, I refreshed the Ubuntu Software ( orange bag) it checks right now, software is up to date is the message I get. I'll use apt-get at cli and not trust the orange bag. =)
[15:08] <mesa> Even gives the time as current
[15:09] <howarth> check with 'dpkg -l' to make sure those aren't really already updated
[15:09] <mesa> ok
[15:09] <howarth> if so, when you click 'Install' it will just pop right out as they will be all 'no-ops' for apt-get
[15:11] <howarth> FYI, you get the same kind of race condition with the App Store app on macOS.
[15:14] <howarth> IMHO, the Ubuntu Software program can be rather flakey
[15:14] <howarth> Especially its behavior when searching for software
[15:15] <howarth> Hmm
[15:16] <mesa> ok I just got an error in Ubuntu Software when I clicked the refresh icon in the updates tab:  "Unable to get list of updates: E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource Temporarily Unavailable)
[15:16] <howarth> Maybe the 'This application is unconfined.' warnings for the Snap Store are due to like of app-armor support?
[15:16] <howarth> err like=lack
[15:16] <mesa> SO, the moral is.. trust apt/dpkg like I always have. =)
[15:19] <mesa> howarth: https://tinyurl.com/y87dedn9   
[15:22] <howarth> that suggests that it is checking in the background
[15:23] <howarth> when you start up the machine it will do that and you may bump into that
[15:24] <howarth> Although it shouldn't be auto-applying the updates on its own, just downloading them
[15:26] <mesa> I had to install myself. It didn't auto install. I used apt-get. I was only curious as to why Ubuntu SOftware Updates tab never showed updates available.
[15:26] <TJ-> mesa: gnome-software (ubuntu-software) is full of bugs so it doesn't surprise me
[15:27] <howarth> I suspect that the Software Update app and the Ubuntu Software app aren't as well integrated as one would hope
[15:27] <mesa> TJ-: Noted as well as howarth eluded to that. 
[15:27] <mesa> cli is my friend.
[15:28] <mesa> other than that. this beaver is humming right along on this iMac 5k.
[15:28] <howarth> Or use Synaptic Package Manager
[15:28] <mesa> I loathe having to boot sierra at all.
[15:28] <mesa> howarth: I should check into synaptics pkg manager. for kicks and grins. )
[15:29] <mesa> Ironic: I will search for it in Ubuntu SOftware ! lol
[15:31] <mesa> apt-cache search synaptic | grep package
[15:31] <mesa> oh yeah!
[15:31]  * mesa closes the orange bag...
[15:35]  * flocculant mostly uses synaptic
[15:53] <howarth> One wonky thing I noticed with the current bionic installer is that gnome-characters,  gnome-logs  and gnome-system-monitor are all installed with 3.26 based snaps despite the 3.28 based ones being present in the bionic repo
[16:04] <mesa> howarth: Same here.
[16:08] <howarth> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1758551
[16:17] <mesa> howarth: I just checked my system and both the 3.26 snaps and the normal 3.28 deb pkgs for gnome-* pkgs you mentioned are installed on my system.
[16:21] <mesa> Same with gnome-logs here.
[16:23] <howarth> looks like Ubuntu still has quite a few 3.26 packages in the bionic repo to update to 3.28
[16:23] <howarth> nautilus for one
[16:23] <Pharma> Hello, does somebody has issues with sound output in ubuntu 18.04 after update as me?
[16:23] <mesa> I just removed the 4 gnome-* (3.26) snaps
[16:24] <mesa> Pharma: Yes. I have intermittent sound problems.
[16:24] <mesa> I have yet to look into it.
[16:25] <Pharma> I just booted and have no sound, is there any workaround for this issue or should i wait next update which will fix this?
[16:30] <howarth> Heh
[16:31] <mesa> howarth: Should gnome-logs be added to that bug report?
[16:31] <howarth> I should have known that nautilus was still at 3.26 because I have icons on the Desktop
[16:31] <howarth> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/03/top-gnome-3-28-features
[16:31] <mesa> I had 3.26 snap and normal deb pkg 3.28 of that one also.
[16:34] <howarth> upstream seems to have marked the bug as no longer effects
[16:34] <howarth> so perhaps this is fixed in a newer installer snapshot
[16:34] <howarth> It is interesting that the snaps usage isn't that well integrated with the normal apt-get
[16:35] <mesa> Installer I used was from the 3-21 daily build.
[16:35] <howarth> In that the presence of the same package name as a normal package doesn't get upgraded over the same package name installed as a snap
[16:36] <howarth> when the normal package has the newer version
[16:38] <TJ-> howarth: yes, it's a mess :)
[16:38] <howarth> You might try again with the 03-24 snapshot and see if it is fixed
[16:39] <howarth> Interesting that they daily snapshots aren't really so daily
[16:39] <howarth> more like every three days
[16:40] <mesa> howarth: Do you have this snap installed? : -> gnome-3-26-1604   3.26.0     53    stable/…  canonical     -
[16:41] <mesa> The installer installed that also.
[16:44] <howarth> hmmm
[16:44] <howarth> https://didrocks.fr/2018/01/23/welcome-to-the-ubuntu-bionic-age-nautilus-a-lts-and-desktop-icons/
[16:44] <howarth> Sound like bionic will be left with the 3.26 nautilus in order to avoid losing the desktop icons
[16:45] <howarth> It would be nice if they had a separate repo to allow folks to support a forked 3.28 nautilus instead
[16:47] <howarth> Ah, seems like they are leaving that to user supported ppa's
[16:47] <mesa> howarth: Do you have this snap installed? : -> gnome-3-26-1604   3.26.0     53    stable/…  canonical     -
[16:48] <howarth> yes
[16:48] <howarth> that might have been a dependency for the others
[16:48] <mesa> true
[16:54] <howarth> Fedora 28 is taking the bleeding edge route and jumping right into 3.28 nautilus
[17:07] <pharma> removed nvidia driver and sound is back
[17:07] <mesa> pharma: how did you go about that?
[17:08] <pharma> Tried all from web, then decided to remove nvidia-* to see what will happen, sound is back now
[17:09] <mesa> remove nvidia* from what directory?
[17:09] <Faux> pharma: My guess is that Pulse is defaulting to an HDMI output on your gpu for no reason, pavucontrol lets you flip it.
[17:10] <pharma> nope it was configured to speaker and headphones when i plugged them
[17:10] <Faux> Okay.
[17:10] <Faux> I wonder why ansible 2.4 has missed Bionic; it was in Debian Testing in 2017.
[17:12] <Faux> ansible
[17:12] <Faux> Oh, I typed ansible. Thanks, text corruption.
[17:13] <mesa> pharma: Do you mind elaborating what you did to get sound? I don't know where to start removing nvidia drivers.
[17:13] <mesa> you mean nvidia drivers for ? kernel? pulseaudio? alsa? 
[17:17] <Faux> She left.
[17:39] <howarth> Heh
[17:40] <howarth> fired up the nightly Live F28 snapshot and sure enough nautilus has no functional desktop
[17:40] <howarth> just basically a background now 
[17:43] <howarth> I suspect that might steer even more folks towards Ubuntu off of Fedora
[17:44] <TJ-> Gnome made a deliberate decision to remove 'Desktop' metaphor from Nautilus. There was a lot of discussion about it some months ago
[17:45] <howarth> I am surprised though that Fedora didn't load in some experimental extension to replace it
[17:45] <howarth> I doubt they would be silly enough to release a RHEL based off of a Fedora without one
[17:46] <howarth> Granted their customer base is pretty much just servers but still...
[17:51] <TJ-> I've never seen the point of Desktop - if you're using the PC it's rarely seen and there are much better ways of organising data that dropping it all in one directory
[17:52] <howarth> Well it is a sensible design for dealing with mounted removal devices
[17:52] <howarth> Although on macOS is has always been a trap due to the performance hit of a cluttered desktop
[17:53] <howarth> Still, it sounds like they pulled it to fix it (ie to get someone to actually create supported code for one).
[17:55] <howarth> I gave up on Fedora when I first tried converting old Macs over to Linux as their extreme stance on non-free makes it a royal pain to deal with WiFi only hardware
[17:56] <howarth> Connecting to a wireless router by ethernet cable to complete an install only works for portables and not desktops in other rooms.
[21:47] <DarkAceZ> hey guys, can I install 18.04 now and not have to worry about some massive overhaul in April?
[21:48] <DarkAceZ> meaning, will there be any desktop-breaking updates happening within the next month?
[21:48] <DarkAceZ> I use Ubuntu as my "daily driver" of sorts
[21:49] <Faux> It's still unstable; graphics drivers and Gnome have been broken in the last fortnight.
[21:49] <Faux> Beta is 5th April.
[21:50] <TJ-> DarkAceZ: we're way past Feature-Freeze; everything now is aimed at fixing bugs
[21:52] <DarkAceZ> will all updates from here on out be able to be done from inside the system with the regular software/package manager?
[21:52] <TJ-> Yes
[21:55] <DarkAceZ> all right, thanks guys
[21:55] <DarkAceZ> I'm going to try it out
[22:10] <ktecho> DarkAceZ: I'm using Kubuntu, so it's not just the same, but have had no important problems in 15 days
[22:12] <DarkAceZ> great! main thing I'm worried about is graphics drivers suddenly not working, like Faux mentioned, and such
[22:13] <Bashing-om> DarkAceZ: nvidia graphics ? -- yesterday a fix was released by nvidia/our developers .. 
[22:14] <DarkAceZ> yeah, GTX780M
[22:15] <DarkAceZ> today's image should work, though? I'm downloading it right now
[22:19] <Bashing-om> DarkAceZ: Yeah, should be golden . nvidia recommneds the 390 version driver - that is tested :) : http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/131853/en-us .
[22:24] <DarkAceZ> ah, thank you!
[22:25] <Bashing-om> DarkAceZ: :) .. Let us know how it goes .
[22:26] <DarkAceZ> I have slow internet, so it's going to be a while before Ubuntu is done downloading - possibly 2.8 hours...
[22:26] <Bashing-om> DarkAceZ: K .. we still be here //also in the event of need .
[22:27] <DarkAceZ> great, thanks!