[01:05] <AuroraAvenue> Mir isn't dead - just 'cos I have got the millions that it requires to work - doesn't mean the code 'expired'.
[01:06] <daftykins> sounds like a semantic argument
[01:07] <AuroraAvenue> sounds like I am talking to another gnomed person. oh well.
[01:07] <daftykins> i run Windows actually
[01:08] <AuroraAvenue> figures.
[01:08] <daftykins> is there a particular reason you're trying to make this personal?
[01:08] <AuroraAvenue> bye pal. don't take it personally.
[01:08] <daftykins> yeah please don't come back with this poor attitude
[01:09] <AuroraAvenue> lovely.
[01:09] <AuroraAvenue> bye.
[02:29] <leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: I'm sure they'll be removed at some point between today and tomorrow. They seem to think it's ok to repeat the same question every 3 minutes
[02:29] <leftyfb> "<fundies>	leftyfb, i wait over 3 minutes every time"
[02:31] <pragmaticenigma> I know, we've provided them with all they could possibly need. The answer was there the whole time... file a stinkin' bug report.
[02:32] <leftyfb> it's not a bug
[02:32] <pragmaticenigma> they have a failure to understand how backports work
[02:32] <leftyfb> it's them refusing to accept "you are doing things that aren't support"
[02:33] <pragmaticenigma> backports requires someone to backport it in the first place... that's why their not getting what they want
[02:34] <pragmaticenigma> anyways.. .time for sleep
[02:34] <pragmaticenigma> night all (or morning as some may be)
[02:36] <Bashing-om> NN pragmaticenigma - sleep well on job well done :)
[02:36] <daftykins> \o
[02:43] <leftyfb> ok, I'm done. Seems to be a trend tonight
[04:11] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:13] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB :)
[04:15] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om crowdy?
[04:17] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A bit going on .. not a lot ..
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> cool
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> and morning guiverc
[04:28] <xangua> 10 pm here
[04:35] <Bashing-om> 23:35 here .
[05:44] <guiverc> sorry lotuspsychje; i'm not very observant (& howdy to everyone else I ignored?!!)
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: no sweat, we are used to long idles here
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> life on nr1 then irc
[05:49] <guiverc> you're well & ready for your day?
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:15] <ducasse> good morning, everyone
[06:16] <Bashing-om> morn'n ducasse o/
[06:17] <ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how are you? your session been busy?
[06:18] <Bashing-om> ducasse: All well - considering - .. and yeah busy session .. got a dilly of one work'n now :)
[06:22] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i can see that :) good you're kept busy ;) i've got to wake up a bit before i do anything, i think
[06:24] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Coffee is good !
[06:26] <ducasse> i used to drink coffee when i was working, but not anymore - now i get my caffeine from coke
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
[06:34] <ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - how are you today?
[06:35] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> fine here tnx ducasse
[06:36] <lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
[06:36] <ducasse> hi lordievader - all going well?
[06:36] <lordievader> Hey ducasse lotuspsychje
[06:36] <lordievader> Doing allright here, how are you guys?
[06:38] <ducasse> all well here, thanks - nice weather too. maybe a little snow will melt today, with some luck.
[06:49] <Bashing-om> Temp: 68°F (20°C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 78% ~ Wind: From the ESE at 7 MPH ~ Alert: Flood Watch ~ Observed: Tue 27, 01:55
[06:51] <lordievader> Nice and warm there Bashing-om
[06:51] <lordievader> Here is will be max 9 degrees.
[06:52] <lordievader> (celcius)
[06:53] <ducasse> currently -4°C here, hoping for some improvement now that the sun is out
[06:56] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Come on sun shine .. - I been cutting grass for a couple of weeks already - .
[07:02] <ducasse> Bashing-om: fixed any of the mowers yet? ;)
[07:12] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Nope ..  the big mowers ..on my do-to list .. been at it with the old human powered rotary mower :)
[07:17] <ducasse> human powered is a pretty safe fallback :)
[07:24] <Bashing-om> ducasse: No gas, no oil to worry with :)
[07:28] <ducasse> and no motors that fail on you :)
[07:30] <lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice1 guys
[07:32] <Bashing-om> ducasse: and look at the good exercise that is provided :P
[07:33] <ducasse> Bashing-om: hehe, exactly :) you'll be really fit now that you've stopped smoking(?) ;)
[07:34] <Bashing-om> ducasse: smoking .. still a work in progress - but still holding !
[07:35] <ducasse> takes time, especially when you've been smoking for many years
[07:48] <Bashing-om> ducasse: A nasty addiction . I have high hopes I will beat it this time .. ( I have made the attempt so many times ! )
[07:50] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i plan to quit myself in the not-so-distant future, already got the patches to get me through the beginning
[07:52] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I tried the patches .. did not work out for me ... I did cold turkey 'til O could not take it anu more .. now on a scheduled withdrawal .
[07:53] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i've already started reducing my intake, so i smoke less than i used to. hopefully that will help some.
[07:57] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I do 6 or less hits on a 2 hour schedule .. and tough that lasr 30 minutes out :)
[08:02] <ducasse> must be 2 lomg hours :)
[08:02] <ducasse> *long
[08:04] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Amazing how long when you are watching that clock :P
[08:10] <ducasse> Bashing-om: :)
[08:11] <ducasse> have you tested upgrading to bionic yet, or just done a clean install? thinking of upgrading my laptop today...
[08:13] <Bashing-om> ducasse: No, on bionic I did a clean install . Still prefer 16.04 xfce .
[08:15] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Ny mind is pretty set to do a core install of 18.04 and run xfce there also .. shame that xfce will not do wayland .
[08:18] <ducasse> Bashing-om: yeah, they'd need to rewrite it for gtk3 and write a new compositor - basically a whole new de
[08:20] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh ,, not goung to happen .
[08:21] <Bashing-om> ducasse: We will just have to wait and see how popular wayland becomes :)
[08:21] <ducasse> Bashing-om: aiui a rewrite for gtk3 is underway, but i don't know how far they've come
[08:22] <Bashing-om> gtk3 has been forthcoming for a spell now . Us a pain to keep up with the proper engine .
[08:22] <Bashing-om> us/is*
[08:24] <ducasse> ...and gtk4 is already on the horizon.
[08:26] <Bashing-om> wow ,, had not heard gtk4 .
[08:38] <ducasse> Bashing-om: iirc work on it is supposed to start this year
[08:40] <Bashing-om> ducasse: One thing for sure .. 'buntu is a fast moving target .
[08:51] <Bashing-om> Nother thing for sure - well past beddy bye time .. Nighty nite .
[10:11] <guiverc> Frox, what is your background (or how long had you been using windoze; how well did you understand what the OS did etc I think i'm asking; or how much do you want to know..)
[10:15] <Frox> guiverc, well at the moment i am a student who learns java (basic level e.g loops, arrays, etc) I have been using windows as far as I can remember
[10:15] <guiverc> have you tried youtube etc?  (to learn) - it seems popular (not my cup of tea really)
[10:17] <guiverc> my preferred method (as a student) would be libraries; go in and study anything about posix/unix/linux (all ~equal).. buying books is expensive; university libraries are the best imho...
[10:17] <Frox> youtube is in my opinion not the best place to learn linux :p There are a lot of videos but I couldnt find a channel which has a good structure
[10:18] <Frox> and content for beginners
[10:18] <Frox> The most channel I found had like 10 vids with different topics and that was all
[10:19] <guiverc> beyond the study (eg. books in libraries), ideally you want to find a group where you can ask questions (why is this? why does that work etc), even as a beginner I think uni.libs are great (most books are beginner level even there)
[10:20] <guiverc> group - could be a group on social media (g+ or wherever you're comfortable); if you're using Ubuntu you could always come in here (#ubuntu for support questions about your Ubuntu)
[10:22] <Frox> Do you have any good books to suggest me?
[10:23] <guiverc> looking -- alas most of my books are old ... what do you want to do with your Ubuntu (or GNU/Linux)?
[10:24] <guiverc> another GREAT thing about GNU/Linux books - there are tons of PDF etc. books available for download & reading offline... eg. want to learn python? the book I recommend is "Dive into Python" which you can download free....
[10:24] <Frox> Firstly to learn how to use the terminal I guess :p
[10:28] <guiverc> (nah I won't look; too many to pick from) .. I'd suggest whatever books you find. I learnt unix in the mid-80s and can still use 75% of what I learnt then.  We used SH(ell), which was replaced by BASH (used today; a superset of SH) hence commands haven't changed much. Most of any GNU/Linux (eg. RedHat/CentOS) also applies in Ubuntu/Debian.
[10:30] <guiverc> even a apple mac uses BASH..  CSH is favored (C shell) by BSD's, but is still a superset of SH so mostly the same.
[10:32] <guiverc> one book i like - "linux in a nutshell" (o'reilly), but its more a reference book, not tutorial...   I'd start by looking for free books available online (many titles are - many because of GPL license requirements)
[10:35] <ducasse> Frox: you can try this, most of it also applies to ubuntu: https://debian-handbook.info/
[10:36] <ducasse> also try the ubuntu server guide
[10:36] <ducasse> !server
[10:38] <guiverc> don't forget the Ubuntu Manual (ducasse gave link in #ubuntu) - its for Ubuntu 16.04 but is pretty good for beginners (mainly gui from memory; I don't recall much terminal..)
[10:39] <Frox> Somebody suggested me this one before which looks interesting "Linux Command Line A Complete Introduction by William E. Shotts, Jr."
[10:41] <ducasse> when it comes to unix books, anything from o'reilly is generally good, in my experience
[10:42] <guiverc> it 'rings a bell' (sounds familiar) but I don't know it; i concur with o'reilly, but have many good books from elsewhere (i like books, have lots of em)
[10:45] <guiverc> thought:  when trying to learn; set yourself a goal.  (eg. hello world program). to help writing a program, set yourself a purpose & code it. create a file of random chars (or grab a text file), sort it using term.  create a new file from it using only the 4-7th words from each line (or something.. ie. set a goal & work out commands to achieve it...)3
[10:46] <guiverc> (my point was; rather than sit & wonder how to use it - set yourself some goal & use commands to accomplish it  my example maybe (extracting specific words) is pretty easy to do in sh/bash/..)
[10:48] <guiverc> you know the `man` (manual), `info` etc commands (they are really reference, rather than tutorial, some tutorial info exists in from memory; but its pretty basic..)
[10:51] <guiverc> ducasse, it's a shame the Ubuntu Manual won't be updated for 18.04 :(
[10:55] <guiverc> Frox, maybe this is worth a scan https://askubuntu.com/questions/151488/what-is-the-best-way-to-learn-how-to-use-ubuntu-with-terminal
[10:57] <guiverc> William Shott's book is available in PDF format free online - download & read it (It looks like one I do have - I think my old copy is Unix Command Line) - buy a copy if you like it & want to support the author (if you can..)
[11:02] <Frox> guiverc, thank you for the link :)
[11:03] <guiverc> You're most Welcome..   You can come back with questions anytime  (if you get other people you may get better ideas too)
[15:15] <pragmaticenigma> nacc, going to step into the frying pan with fundies?
[15:17] <leftyfb> run away!
[15:20] <pragmaticenigma> leftyfb, right? looking it at it... there is no documentation for installing travis-ci locally... so I have no idea what he was doing... travis-ci is meant to be used through their domain
[15:21] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: last i checked, they just wanted help with backportpackage, at my suggestion
[15:34] <pragmaticenigma> nacc, they were looking for libgrpc-dev .. they weren't having any luck with the tool searching the universe repo
[15:37] <kostkon> !info firefox xenial
[15:37] <kostkon> not yet?..
[15:38] <daftykins> are you after .0.2 or something?
[15:38] <kostkon> yep
[15:38] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: ok
[15:41] <daftykins> heh version chasing :P
[15:48] <kostkon> admittedly it's just that. most changes in .0.2 are bug fixes for windows
[15:52] <pragmaticenigma> nacc, I don't believe it exists in universe, but fundies became rather discontent with our answer of needing to file a bug report
[15:53] <pragmaticenigma> what's in .0.2 kostkon that is so aluring?
[15:54] <daftykins> nothing, as was just said
[15:55] <kostkon> yep nothing
[15:58] <pragmaticenigma> oh, missed that... mind is in a couple places at the moment
[15:58] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: well, it does in 16.04 and on
[16:24] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: seems particularly strnage to get tor, if you care about privacy, and then use a ppa to install it, which means you give some rando root
[16:24] <daftykins> xd
[16:24] <daftykins> * xD
[16:25] <nacc> i guess that's just my opinion, though :)(
[16:26] <pragmaticenigma> which is why I wasn't advocating it... I'm pretty sure many of us use Tor (I use it mostly to test my set from outside my network)... I was trying to find the documentation that discouraged using PPAs or installing into /opt
[16:26] <pragmaticenigma> couldn't find it fast enough
[16:27] <nacc> !ppa says the unsupported bit
[16:27] <pragmaticenigma> I know the tor-browser is included in Ubuntu's main repo... but it's almost always out of date
[16:27] <nacc> iirc
[16:27] <nacc> yeah
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:32] <pragmaticenigma> evening? it's lunch time here!
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: welcome to ubuntu timezones :p
[17:33] <lotuspsychje> 19h33
[17:52] <lordievader> Ubuntu timezones... You know what we should do is fork a timezone and make it so that it is allways time for coffee... or beer...
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:15] <pragmaticenigma> it's 5:30 somewhere
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: you lunch at 5h30?
[18:26] <pragmaticenigma> I "lunch" at 1100 Central Prevailing Time
[18:28] <kostkon> in internet time please
[18:29] <pragmaticenigma> at present it would be 1600 UTC during Dayling Saving Time
[18:29] <pragmaticenigma> Daylight
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> nite nite all, tv time
[18:30] <kostkon> no, this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
[18:32] <kostkon> i really need to change the battery in my swatch. it's like this one http://gadgetboy.org/archives/2012/7/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-beat.html
[18:34] <pragmaticenigma> yeah, that was destined to fail when the time zone choosen wasn't GMT/UTC
[18:39] <kostkon> it was doa yeah
[18:39] <pragmaticenigma> Kind of like my3words is doa
[18:41] <kostkon> same concept same outcome lol
[18:44] <daftykins> hrmm some Ryzen 2 numbers leaking out - https://videocardz.com/75504/cpc-hardware-amd-ryzen-7-2700x-review-goes-online#disqus_thread
[23:03] <pragmaticenigma> leftyfb, they're technically not wrong :-/
[23:03] <leftyfb> B.S.
[23:04] <leftyfb> guidelines aren't black and white
[23:06] <pragmaticenigma> I dunno, the guidelines only mention channels, nothing about networks
[23:06] <daftykins> what're the commoners doing now? :)
[23:07] <pragmaticenigma> moot point anyways, they got what they came for and hopefully move on
[23:08] <pragmaticenigma> oh nothing special daftykins
[23:09] <daftykins> :/
[23:14] <leftyfb> Next time I'll answer them with a contradicting answer in each channel
[23:14] <leftyfb> then when they call me out on it , I can point them to why it's a bad idea
[23:15] <daftykins> oh you had a cross-poster? deal with it directly, simple
[23:16] <leftyfb> they seemed to have thought that because it was across different networks that it was ok
[23:16] <leftyfb> like that makes a lick of difference to the reason behind not doing it
[23:16] <daftykins> what other network, Mint's channels or something?
[23:17] <leftyfb> EFnet, not that it matters
[23:17] <daftykins> well i'd be curious the channel in the other place, so yeah it does
[23:17] <daftykins> used to get Mint users lying that they run Ubuntu so they could get support
[23:18] <leftyfb> the point is, you're looking for immediate help from several people at the same time while not devoting yourself to troubleshooting with either one of them. Also potential contradicting answers
[23:19] <daftykins> you don't need to preach to the choir, avoiding my questions is pretty annoying though
[23:20] <leftyfb> I answered your question immediately
[23:25] <daftykins> < daftykins> well i'd be curious the channel in the other place
[23:25] <daftykins> i really hope this isn't how you guys are in #u
[23:28] <leftyfb> #ubuntu
[23:29] <daftykins> on efnet as well?
[23:29] <leftyfb> yes
[23:31] <daftykins> hrmm didn't know they had one, how rude!
[23:32] <leftyfb> I've been on there longer than freenode
[23:34] <pragmaticenigma> Is the EFNet room officially by canonical? I would assume freenode is, since Canonical puts it as the default network in hexchat installs
[23:34] <daftykins> pretty sure it's only freenode
[23:42] <leftyfb> no, it's not official
[23:42] <leftyfb> but it used to be a lot easier to get help there back in the day when freenode was just too busy
[23:42] <leftyfb> it used to be pretty active
[23:43] <pragmaticenigma> ah, okay
[23:46] <pragmaticenigma> whats next for fun tonight leftyfb do ya think? return of fundies?
[23:47] <leftyfb> as soon as the hellstorm at work is over, I'm done for the night. My fingers hurt I've been working so hard today. And I'm supposed to be off this week to take care of my 3 month old who came home from the hospital for the first time this weekend
[23:49] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: fundies has been getting help in #ubuntu-devel
[23:49] <nacc> which was the wrong place to direct them to by whomever did, but it's fine
[23:49] <pragmaticenigma> ah, another cross posting :-(
[23:49] <pragmaticenigma> oh, they probably found there way on their own... is it still the libgrc issue?
[23:49] <nacc> yes
[23:50] <leftyfb> aww, we missed it
[23:50] <pragmaticenigma> for reference was it possible to do the backport?
[23:50] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: no, and they don't need to
[23:51] <nacc> well, i mean, yes it's possible, just difficult
[23:51] <nacc> and they didn't want to do the necessary work, afaict
[23:53] <pragmaticenigma> yeah, we ran into the same problem  in main chat... alnong with not so nice things said about ubuntu and the volunteer help they were receiving
[23:54] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: yeah, that continued too
[23:55] <daftykins> sounds like a delight
[23:56] <pauljw> heheh...
[23:57] <pragmaticenigma> every moment XP