[03:46] <auctus> how do i add other clocks so i can see several time zones? 
[03:46] <auctus> i cant find stuff in the new UI just by intuition
[04:11] <zanshin> auctus: https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/how-to-display-time-from-multiple-cities-in-ubuntu/
[04:17] <auctus> zanshin: yeah in 16.04, but not in 18.04.
[04:17] <auctus> in 18.04 the clock is somewhere else (in the middle instead of to the right) and that time/date button isnt there
[04:18] <zanshin> Whoops. Thought I was in the #ubuntu channel. My bad. I think there's a GNOME plugin that allows for multiple clocks
[07:54] <apicult0r> Hello, world! Can anyone else confirm that bionic offers only PPTP VPN out of the box?
[07:55] <apicult0r> And, if so, could you consider marking this bug as affecting you? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1752417
[07:55] <TJ-> apicult0r: it depends on what packages are seeded by the installer. Which installer did you use?
[07:56] <apicult0r> The daily image from a few days ago
[07:56] <BugzBunny> Right
[07:56] <apicult0r> With the option to download and install the latest versions checked
[07:56] <BugzBunny> Okay
[07:57] <BugzBunny> apicult0r: There is different protocols
[07:57] <apicult0r> Yeah, I know that.
[07:57] <apicult0r> PPTP is insecure and shouldn't be used by... basically anyone
[07:57] <apicult0r> That's my point
[07:57] <BugzBunny> apicult0r: I'd preffer you understand
[07:57] <BugzBunny> Since you know
[07:58] <apicult0r> At the very least L2TP-over-IPsec should be included by default, IMHO
[07:58] <apicult0r> Bonus marks for IKEv2
[07:58] <BugzBunny> Not really, if you understand waht it is
[07:58] <BugzBunny> If it solve your use case
[07:58] <apicult0r> lol.
[07:58] <apicult0r> It's so insecure that major OS vendors are removing support for it
[07:59] <BugzBunny> Don't care
[07:59] <apicult0r> OK, so don't upvote the bug then
[07:59] <apicult0r> Le shrug
[07:59] <BugzBunny> Yeah
[07:59] <BugzBunny> apicult0r: But I use PPTP btw
[07:59] <apicult0r> Instead of following me in here from #ubuntu to tell me to piss off, if you don't have anything constructive to say then why bother?
[07:59] <apicult0r> OK, cool, enjoy it
[07:59] <BugzBunny> apicult0r: And L2TP
[08:00] <BugzBunny> not L2TP-over-IPsec
[08:00] <apicult0r> Yes, L2TP by itself is not encrypted, I realize that.
[08:01] <BugzBunny> I thin it's encryped
[08:01] <apicult0r> No, it's not.
[08:01] <BugzBunny> But I would have to read on it again
[08:01] <apicult0r> It's almost always used with IPsec, though
[08:01] <apicult0r> And in that combination, it's quite secure
[08:01] <BugzBunny> Right
[08:02] <BugzBunny> I would have to read again
[08:02] <BugzBunny> It's pretty fast
[08:02] <BugzBunny> That I remembered from it
[08:02] <TJ-> apicult0r: you still didn't say which seed you used? was it the ubuntu-desktop ISO (and hence Gnome)
[08:02] <apicult0r> Let me check
[08:03] <apicult0r> TJ-
[08:04] <apicult0r> bionic-desktop-amd64.iso
[08:04] <TJ-> apicult0r: The seed for that is here, and it does only include network-manager-pptp-gnome  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu.bionic/desktop
[08:04] <apicult0r> So, yes, the default one with gnome
[08:04] <TJ-> apicult0r: so add that seed link to your bug report
[08:04] <apicult0r> What's the best way to do that?
[08:08] <TJ-> apicult0r: add a comment to the bug you linked us when you joined this channel
[08:08] <apicult0r> I just dumped it in as a comment
[08:08] <apicult0r> OK, done, just wondered if there was a more official way to do so
[08:08] <apicult0r> s/official/appropriate
[08:08] <TJ-> apicult0r: everything goes via bugs so we can keep track!
[08:09] <TJ-> apicult0r: I'll find out the correct package to assign it to and get some devs to consider it
[08:09] <apicult0r> TJ-, that is very much appreciated.
[08:09] <TJ-> apicult0r: I've subscribed myself to it
[08:09] <apicult0r> IMHO PPTP should be torn out by default
[08:09] <apicult0r> And L2TP, IPSec, and IKEv1/v2 should be included by default
[08:09] <apicult0r> PPTP only is absurd, it's like Windows 95 or something
[08:09] <apicult0r> Thanks again. :)
[08:10] <apicult0r> (I get that users can easily add support for those more modern protocols easily, but they really should be included out of the box and the insecure option not included by default to avoid people who don't know any better from being tempted to use it
[08:10] <apicult0r> )
[08:11] <apicult0r> And the time to change what's included by default is right now, not April 26 ;)
[08:14] <TJ-> apicult0r: the issue with seeding is the limited space in the ISOs. Adding one package can pull in many depends, so it cascades to add many megabytes
[08:14] <TJ-> apicult0r: there won't be any changes for 18.04 we're long past feature freeze
[08:19] <apicult0r> That's unfortunate :/
[08:19] <apicult0r> Nobody else noticed this before then?
[08:19] <apicult0r> Wow.
[08:20] <TJ-> apicult0r: well it's usually just an "apt install ..." away, or the GUI variation of that via ubuntu-software/gnome-software application
[08:20] <apicult0r> Yeah, but this is a bit basic, no?
[08:20] <TJ-> apicult0r: most users don't require a VPN
[08:20] <apicult0r> And insecure on top of that
[08:21] <TJ-> why is it insecure?
[08:21] <apicult0r> Most home users don't, no, and businesses would likely have someone who knows better, agreed
[08:21] <apicult0r> uh
[08:21] <apicult0r> I included a bunch of relevant links in the bug
[08:21] <apicult0r> PPTP was cryptographically weak ten years ago
[08:21] <apicult0r> It's now worse than that because it can lull people into a false sense of security
[08:21] <TJ-> I'm not talking about PPTP, I'm talking about the basic connectivity after install
[08:22] <apicult0r> As in, if you're using open Wi-Fi at least you *know* it's insecure so you might restrict what you do
[08:22] <TJ-> Install > connect via wifi > router/gateway > ISP > Internet 
[08:22] <apicult0r> Ah, because including only one deprecated and insecure type of VPN might lead some people to believe that's all it supports, so they'll just shrug and use it instead of something they should probably be using instead
[08:23] <apicult0r> I don't know what you mean by "Install > connect via wifi > router/gateway > ISP > Internet"
[08:24] <apicult0r> I saw your comment btw, ovpn is good but IKEv2 is where things are going, and L2TP-over-IPsec is ubiquitous
[08:24] <apicult0r> IKEv2 also supports MOBIKE
[08:24] <apicult0r> Much better mobility support
[08:25] <apicult0r> As in, the tunnel stays up if the client IP changes
[08:25] <apicult0r> wireguard is already included in the kernel but anyone using that will know what they're doing so exposing it in the GUI by default is unnecessary
[08:27] <TJ-> apicult0r: Have you ever seen the hoops setting up IPsec via openswan/freeswan causes!? That is not going to get shipped OOTB!
[08:32] <apicult0r> TJ- Not really -- server IP/FQDN, PSK, username, password, done.
[08:32] <apicult0r> If it's more complicated than that, something is wrong.
[08:33] <apicult0r> Sure, if you want to use certificates it's a pain, but at that point it's very likely going to be done with corporate oversight
[08:33] <apicult0r> I don't mean support for using Bionic as a server
[08:33] <apicult0r> I mean just as a VPN *client* OOTB
[08:34] <apicult0r> Anyone who needs to set up a server is out of scope for "include support by default without further downloads"
[08:34] <TJ-> apicult0r: right, but that still requires openswam/freeswam under the hood to setup the connection, the same as with openvpn
[08:34] <apicult0r> strongswan works too, that's what Seth suggested
[08:35] <apicult0r> network-manager-strongswan, with a few deps, not many
[08:35] <TJ-> yeah, I forget all the variations
[08:35] <apicult0r> And the GUI "just works" at that point
[08:35] <apicult0r> I checked, I didn't even need to log out
[08:36] <apicult0r> In fact, strongswan is what a major cloud provider uses on their end for their VPN ingress to their cloud offering
[08:36] <apicult0r> I can't name them, but suffice to say I have a good source. lol.
[10:59] <zetheroo> Is 18.04 being released with python 2.7?
[11:03] <BionicMac> zetheroo: python:
[11:03] <BionicMac>   Installed: 2.7.14-4
[11:03] <BionicMac> Yes.
[11:04] <zetheroo> so same as 16.04 ... was expecting something newer
[11:18] <brainwash> zetheroo: isn't that the latest?
[11:19] <zetheroo> brainwash: I thought 3.6 was the latest version
[11:19] <brainwash> but that's python 3.x
[11:21] <brainwash> so, you were expecting that ubuntu will drop python 2 completely in 18.04?
[11:21] <zetheroo> ah ok, so that would be https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/python3
[12:04] <TJ-> zetheroo: rmadison shows https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TchCFmkkYN/
[12:11] <akem> !info blender
[12:22] <zetheroo> TJ-: what is rmadison?
[12:24] <zetheroo>  TJ-: I just installed it ... very cool tool
[12:28] <zetheroo> it doesn't seem to work for all packages though - or am I doing something wrong?
[12:29] <zetheroo> Like if I do 'rmadison google-chrome-stable' nothing is shown
[12:31] <zetheroo> ah .. is that because that package is installed from a PPA?
[12:35] <TJ-> zetheroo: yes
[16:57] <h31_> Hello. What's the recommended way to upgrade Ubuntu 16.04 desktop to 18.04 nightly?
[16:58] <nacc> h31_: do-release-upgrade -d, iirc
[16:58] <nacc> h31_: although i'd recommend waiting until 18.04.1 comes out and you'll be prompted normally
[16:58] <nacc> h31_: unless you are willing to deal with the fallout, potentially
[16:58] <h31_> nacc: Just going to try a new version. I've already done the backup.
[16:59] <nacc> h31_: might be better to reinstall
[16:59] <h31_> Is it better to use do-release-upgrade, or a GUI verisn?
[16:59] <h31_> *version
[16:59] <nacc> h31_: as 16.04 -> 18.04 isn't really the supported path (or tested well, necessarily), it's 16.04 -> 18.04.1
[16:59] <nacc> h31_: they are the same, afaik
[17:00] <h31_> nacc: Thank you
[17:00] <nacc> h31_: yw
[17:01] <h31_> If everything will be OK with a new version, I will reinstall the system. Just don't want to spend time reinstalling the system at this moment.
[17:02] <nacc> h31_: i'm not sure how to tell that
[17:04] <h31_> nacc: Tell what?
[17:04] <nacc> h31_: if everyting will be ok
[17:04] <h31_> I know :)
[17:27] <BionicMac> phoenix_firebrd: Hello
[18:03] <h31_> nacc: I've upgraded my system successfully. The only issue is a new font style. Something was changed in the fontconfig's settings, and I don't like it.
[18:04] <h31_> If anybody knows how to revert the previous appearance, please suggest me. It's such unfamiliar.
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> h31_: gnome-tweak-tool for more tweak settings
[18:56] <phoenix_firebrd> BionicMac: hi
[19:08] <h31_> lotuspsychje: I'm using Xfce4
[19:08] <lotuspsychje> ah
[19:08] <h31_> Tried all hinting types - no way to make it look like Ubuntu 16.04
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> h31_: perhaps Bashing-om knows more of it
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: h31_ updated xenial to bionic already and wants the xenial xubuntu look, n theme back
[19:12] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: h31_ Not too syr what we can do to get bionic xfce to "look" like that of xenial . I am still in that process of decking out my bioinc DE .
[19:12] <Bashing-om> sure*
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> kk
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> havent tested xubuntu in a while so, dont have a clue here
[19:13] <brainwash> what is different in xubuntu 18.04?
[19:14] <Bashing-om> h31_: lotuspsychje : considering to copy my xenial theme over to bionic see what happens . ( be aware of the GTK engines employed ) .
[19:14] <lotuspsychje> !info xubuntu-tweak-tool
[19:18] <enyc> hrrm
[19:18] <enyc> What is the prcess to get  IPv6-enablement of  ppa.launchpad.net  quickly-and-efficiently, please?
[19:18] <enyc> (AAAA record missing at present, total pain in some environments, etc.)
[19:19] <flocculant> brainwash: not much 
[19:19] <flocculant> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
[19:20] <enyc> flocculant: wiki.xubuntu.org has no AAAA-record
[19:20] <flocculant> mail the xubuntu website team if it's of some importance 
[19:20] <enyc> flocculant: linode support IPv6 fine, xubuntu developer sor this out?
[19:21] <brainwash> flocculant: h31_ was talking about look & feel related changes after upgrading from xenial to bionic
[19:21] <flocculant> oh right - I'm definitely not the person to talk to about that sort of thing ...
[19:29] <h31_> brainwash: Bashing-om: I was talking about fonts. Don't think that the theme will change font appearance.
[19:30] <h31_> The problem is that fonts are much more blurry. The font is same, DejaVu Sans.
[19:32] <flocculant> h31_: as far as I'm aware the default fonts are the same - we added some (noto) I believe
[19:33] <flocculant> I assume you've set them to be the same as on 16.04
[19:37] <Bashing-om> h31_: Same experience - blurry foibts .. in terminal I am presently using the Noto Mono Bold for good effect .
[19:37] <Bashing-om> foibts/fonts*
[19:38] <flocculant> do they look blurry in a screenshot?