[01:15] <FurretUber> I've bought a controller (yay!) and I noticed that when I'm playing a game using it, the screen turns off because of the power settings, as if I was not pressing anything
[01:54] <bluesabre> FurretUber: yeah, controller input doesn't register as a power inhibiting event
[01:54] <bluesabre> Updated release notes for final beta, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
[02:04] <FurretUber> Are there plans to correct https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13979 ?
[02:09] <FurretUber> For 18.04 release
[02:09] <bluesabre> FurretUber: makes sense to. Not sure garcon has a current maintainer, but I might try to resolve it this weekend.
[02:14] <bluesabre> Tidied up blueprints a bit
[02:14] <bluesabre> nighty all
[03:53] <flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
[04:10] <flocculant> Unit193: grabbed numlockx from -proposed - I assume the update should change the naughty line in 55numlockx? or do we need to do that seperately? 
[04:10] <flocculant> because if we don't 'need' to - I've got news for you :p
[04:11] <flocculant> that said as I wake up - I think my assumption is wrong in the first place ... I now assume that's from one of our xubuntu-* things
[04:27] <Unit193> 55numlockx is from numlockx.
[04:28] <flocculant> mmm perhaps it took a reboot then - now see else ... /usr/bin
[04:28] <flocculant> if I had a useful laptop I'd check :p
[04:51] <flocculant> vm showed change immediately so I guess I was half asleep
[05:01] <flocculant> ali1234 bluesabre - re 'someone noticed it in debian in november' so that's around when I first noticed it and asked if anyone could reproduce ... really must ask these things in CAPSLOCK next time ;)
[05:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: last ping this morning for you - marked us ready
[06:47] <willem> hi all. I'll have time to do some more testing later today. Just wondering what the right strategy is: should I keep testing with the beta 2 ISO as I downloaded it yesterday? Or should I use zsync to keep it up to date?
[07:32] <knome> willem, unless there has been respins, the ISO is the same (that's the whole point of the freezes)
[07:51] <willem> I'm new to this, so bear with me: a respin is a new version/build of something? The final beta will be frozen for now? And if there is a respin of the beta that will be announced so that I can update my iso?
[09:52] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
[10:16] <bluesabre> flocculant: CAPSLOCK? Did you say something, that's all I was able to read. :D
[10:17] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[16:33] <flocculant> willem: I marked final beta ready this morning - so no more required - and you only need zsync when a respin happens
[16:34] <willem> so, no worries then?
[16:35] <flocculant> nope - all good :)
[16:36] <willem> :-)
[16:36] <willem> I'll resume testing the dailies again then, shall I?
[16:39] <flocculant> you can have a rest now - the daily is effectively pointless now till tomorrow :)
[16:42] <ali1234> flocculant: i think laney just uploaded the fontconfig patch
[16:42] <willem> Is the number of "issues" found in the second beta more or less what you'd expect in this point of time?
[16:43] <flocculant> willem: pretty much
[16:43] <flocculant> ali1234: ack - just been looking in -desktop
[16:46] <willem> good. I´ll be at the piano then... :-) Back tomorrow, end of the day I expect.
[16:46] <flocculant> have a good time in between then :)(
[16:46] <flocculant> :)
[19:23] <enyc> Humm, who shoul be IPv6-enabling the xubuntu services please?
[19:23] <enyc> canonical have IPv6-enabled on vairous fty anh otherwise, as well as their 91.189. etc [e.g. for www.xubuntu.org]
[19:23] <enyc> the wiki.xubuntu.org,  on linode, needs tohe server advin to turn on IPv6 with linode (NB: be careful of IPv6 forward-formimed reverse-DNS to avoid email trouble), and add AAAA-pointers there.
[19:23] <flocculant> knome pleia2 ^^
[19:24] <pleia2> yes, I'm very familiar with using IPv6 on Linode ;)
[19:25] <pleia2> we just haven't bothered since the migration from canonical, I can do it if there's interest
[19:26] <pleia2> the main blocker is that xubuntu.org can't have it (still Canonical-hosted) so I wasn't sure about enabling some of our resources, but not others
[19:26] <enyc> pleia2:what!?!?!? caninical have IPv6
[19:26] <enyc> pleia2: e.g. ftp.ubuntu.com all dual stacked
[19:26] <enyc> pleia2: you can definitely enabled separate services one at atime
[19:27] <pleia2> enyc: are you sure? the last time I asked they hadn't added IPv6 to the community servers
[19:27] <knome> enyc, thing is we have root access to only certain subdomains.
[19:27] <pleia2> enyc: I know I can ;) I do know how to use computers
[19:27] <enyc> pleia2: what you must NOT do is create (a) a broken AAAA-pointer (before service ready / consistent ipv6 address /firewall-rule etc working)   and (b) IPv6-enable a host without setting up forward-confirmed reverse-DNS  on the address  (assuming dost requires revers, which is very good practice and CRITICAL for getting emails out especially to gmail)
[19:28] <knome> pleia2, maybe we should create a new RT ticket and try?
[19:28] <pleia2> enyc: you're kind of insulting my intelligence at this point, maybe stop?
[19:28] <enyc> please try, though i wonder if its' best todo after 18.04 'released' ?
[19:28] <knome> enyc, please, pleia2 doesn't need technical advice. as she describes, this is a social issue
[19:29] <enyc> pleia2: knome asked about "wasn't sure about enabling some of our resources, but not others" hence giving reasonable answer
[19:29] <pleia2> as knome explains, this is a social thing, not a technical barrier
[19:29] <knome> enyc, that refers to what i said; we have root acces to only some resources
[19:29] <flocculant> enyc: it's extremely doubtful this would even get looked at by the team before 18.04 is released - we've got a distro to release 
[19:29] <flocculant> I certainly won't have time to think about it
[19:30] <enyc> flocculant: right yes, hence my point about best todo after 18.04 released
[19:30] <knome> yes, but even if our team looked at it, it's likely that the canonical IS team will likely not do anything or even reply before release...
[19:30] <flocculant> they've got a hugh queue I read elsewhere
[19:30] <enyc> knome: right yes nthat makes snes, so make a project issue/diary/alarm/whatever to choose better time to requset it =)
[19:31] <enyc> main thing is your project aware of the issue =)
[19:31] <pleia2> yeah, it's something I've spoken to Canonical about before, and we do have the techincal expertise to address, it just hasn't gotten much attention of late
[19:31] <enyc> My organizization relevant IS team, simply needed telling about TLS1.0 limit on a key/core authentication system and they quickte quickly tested/fixed it to TLS1.2 enablement,  for example.
[19:33] <knome> enyc, you could file a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website; no need for the technical details, just mention enabling ipv6
[19:33] <knome> i wish all IS teams were as responsive as yours then, i guess
[19:34] <knome> you have to remember they are paid to provide services mostly for other people who are paid
[19:34] <knome> community like xubuntu is just a thing they do in the side when they have time (not completely true, but it helps understand the situation we're in)
[19:37] <flocculant> well
[19:37] <flocculant> that is pretty much the case - just sometimes we manage to make some time
[19:38] <knome> well i was about to say "or when there is enough pressure to make canonical look bad if they don't do anything" but i didn't want to be that aggressive...
[19:38] <knome> and tbh, that's not correct either
[19:38] <knome> there are things that happen very quickly....
[19:38] <knome> (even when they aren't critical to anybody by any means)
[19:39] <knome> this is all mostly related to repeating processes though, but still
[19:39] <knome> at least they've got something fixed :)
[19:39] <flocculant> :)
[19:40] <knome> aiui, the IS team is also very overloaded with work
[19:41] <knome> but enough of that.
[19:44] <ondondil> I just tested the beta iso instalation process. Would it be helpful if i submit the result here? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/388/builds/169633/testcases/1301/results
[19:44] <knome> ondondil, yes, yes and yes!
[19:44] <knome> (if you don't submit, it's next to useless)
[19:44] <flocculant> ondondil: you have to - I closed the beta earlier today :)
[19:44] <knome> oh :P
[19:45] <knome> it was about versions
[19:45]  * knome hides
[19:45] <flocculant> any and all reports of tests are welcome - and I even read the archived ones :)
[19:45]  * flocculant can still see knome ...
[19:45] <knome> dang
[19:45] <flocculant> :)
[19:47] <flocculant> willem: re did you by any chance look at systemctl status system-reboot.service? https://i.imgur.com/mUzRaIv.png
[19:59] <akxwi-dave> got a weird bug  to post for suspend on lid close for a laptop..  an old core2duo.. just need to check that its not the laptop first
[19:59] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: there has been talk in here for days about some lid close issue
[19:59] <flocculant> which has completely passed me by because - no lid ...
[20:00] <akxwi-dave> aye.. thats why I ran extra tests :-)
[20:00] <TJ-> akxwi-dave: I'm still working on it
[20:00] <TJ-> akxwi-dave: is it this? Bug #1759950
[20:02] <akxwi-dave> nope this is really weird.. when i open it teh screen is all blue and when I move the mouse it sort of moves another bl;ue screen up and down screen
[20:02] <akxwi-dave> hang on i'll video it
[20:02] <TJ-> akxwi-dave: does it happen if you switch away from the GUI tty before closing the lid?
[20:03] <flocculant> knome: if no-one turns up at meeting it's because the time link was wrong :p
[20:03] <akxwi-dave> not tried that
[20:03] <knome> flocculant, haha
[20:04] <flocculant> I only noticed - because utc and uk summer confuses me till about October :D
[20:04] <knome> yes...
[20:04] <flocculant> then time=utc and I'm cool for another 6 months 
[20:05] <ochosi> !team | reminder: community meeting in roughly 2hrs
[20:05] <flocculant> not sure I'll be functioning still ochosi 
[20:05] <knome> DST should not be used...
[20:05] <ochosi> flocculant: anything you wanna mention now so we can carry it to the meeting?
[20:05] <flocculant> I took both the links I had on there off - both look soon sorted
[20:05] <ochosi> kewl
[20:05] <ondondil> okay, so I submitted a passed test result. I'm not entirely sure if I did it right but I hope that helps tho
[20:05] <flocculant> thank the new testers 
[20:05] <ochosi> awesome
[20:06] <pleia2> ondondil: thanks \o/
[20:06] <akxwi-dave> excellent
[20:06] <akxwi-dave> o7
[20:07] <flocculant> ondondil: where did you post it?
[20:07] <flocculant> and thanks :)
[20:07] <flocculant> or are you seanmc ?
[20:08] <ondondil> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/388/builds/169633/testcases/1301/results my nick there is imrahil
[20:08] <akxwi-dave> where teh best place to post a video?
[20:08] <flocculant> internet
[20:08] <flocculant> ondondil: thanks 
[20:08] <akxwi-dave> lol.. (sod off mate.. 😃
[20:08] <flocculant> :p
[20:09] <ochosi> akxwi-dave: some ppl use youtube..? :)
[20:09] <flocculant> I often use streamable.com
[20:09] <flocculant> ochosi: lol
[20:10] <akxwi-dave> I cnnt believe I forgot about yourtube
[20:10] <flocculant> well you also forgot I'd likely say 'internet' ...
[20:11] <knome> ochosi, some people also use 4chan (:
[20:11] <akxwi-dave> https://youtu.be/3UcvvfL_2ag
[20:12] <akxwi-dave> when reopen a second time the bug stops.
[20:12] <flocculant> I've seen that before
[20:13] <flocculant> obviously not the youtribe video
[20:13] <flocculant> never seen The Photon Raiders though
[20:13] <akxwi-dave> ahhh :-)  old gaming clanm I used to help run
[20:14] <flocculant> :)
[20:15] <akxwi-dave> The laptop is a HP Compaq 6730b core2duo P8700 with intel 1625 video
[20:17] <flocculant> I think laptop isn't necessarily the issue - I've had that on desktop way back
[20:17] <akxwi-dave> sorry Intel GMA 4500MHD   
[20:17] <akxwi-dave> ahh
[20:17] <flocculant> couldn't reproduce though
[20:18] <flocculant> it used to just happen
[20:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: i just found another small icon bug that needs fixing for 18.04 - can we do another xubuntu-artwork upload?
[20:27] <flocculant> we can't keep changing the release note you know :p
[20:28] <ochosi> hehe
[20:28] <ochosi> it's really just a bugfix ;)
[20:28] <ochosi> (and it's also unreported, so nothing to announce apart from: we have nicer icons!)
[20:29]  * flocculant changes release note to 'Ochosi just keeps on finding icon issues'
[20:29] <flocculant> :D
[20:29]  * flocculant goes looking for elusive elliptical circles
[20:33] <knome> i didn't know flocculant was so grumpy and against change that he didn't even allow fixes for bugs ;)
[20:33] <flocculant> :p
[20:38] <ochosi> hehe
[20:48] <flocculant> ochosi: sorry - can't stay awake for another 90 minutes - so I will read the logs in the morning.
[20:48] <ochosi> sure thing
[20:48] <ochosi> nighty flocculant 
[20:48] <knome> nighty flocculant 
[20:48] <flocculant> final beta is likely to be released late 'today' or tomorrow if you want to announce - but frankly I'd rather we didn't advertise milestones - will leave that decision to you
[20:49] <flocculant> as long as you make the right one :D
[20:49] <flocculant> quick shout to testers
[20:49] <knome> would probably make sense to write down some policies on announcement stuff etc.
[20:49] <flocculant> mmm 
[20:49] <knome> the release note/announcement differences too
[20:49] <knome> but... later
[20:49] <knome> :)
[20:49] <flocculant> yea that for sure - should be different 
[20:49] <knome> they have been too
[20:50] <flocculant> anyway - night all
[20:50] <flocculant> yea I know :)
[20:50] <knome> but good to have stuff documented
[20:50] <knome> ngihty
[20:50] <knome> and nighty :P
[20:50] <flocculant> :)
[20:53] <willem> night
[21:38] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.7.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-7-2-released-tp50883.html (by Alex)
[21:57] <krytarik> LP #1685502 has just been reassigned btw.
[21:58] <ochosi> !team | final reminder: meeting in <5min
[21:58] <knome> a very brief reminder;)
[21:58] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.15 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-15-released-tp50885.html (by Alexander Schwinn)
[21:58] <ochosi> :)
[22:00] <bluesabre> Nice timing
[22:00] <bluesabre> Evening all
[22:01] <jd109> Hello!
[22:01] <ochosi> indeed
[22:02] <ochosi> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[22:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 22:02:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:02] <knome> hullo
[22:02] <bluesabre> hiiii
[22:02] <pleia2> hello
[22:03] <ochosi> #chair ochosi knome bluesabre
[22:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
[22:03] <ochosi> hi everyone :)
[22:03]  * bluesabre is wired in at a coffee shop
[22:03] <bluesabre> hi ochosi
[22:03] <ochosi> noice
[22:03] <ochosi> enjoy that coffee!
[22:03] <knome> bluesabre, a coffee IV?
[22:04] <bluesabre> Something like that
[22:04] <ochosi> #topic Open action items
[22:04] <ochosi> are there any..?
[22:04] <ochosi> (there aren't on the agenda, but then again)
[22:04] <knome> not from meetings
[22:04] <ochosi> some coordination regarding social-media-ing of final beta testing..?
[22:06] <ochosi> but i presume that has been done
[22:06] <ochosi> i noticed at least on the things i use
[22:06] <knome> it's past that time, yes
[22:06] <ochosi> and this has been a fairly awesome cycle wrt new testers anyway
[22:06] <knome> i'm pretty sure pleia2 worked hard to get it done because this time i didn't do anything :)
[22:06] <ochosi> hehe
[22:06] <ochosi> well done pleia2 
[22:06] <bluesabre> :)
[22:06] <knome> not that i do anything else than twitter anyway... :P
[22:06] <pleia2> and thanks to flocculant for reminding me to do the things ;)
[22:06] <ochosi> good teamwork then (knome doing nothing, flocculant doing the reminding and pleia2 doing all the work)
[22:06] <pleia2> lol
[22:06] <bluesabre> lol
[22:06] <knome> well i didn't step on anybody's toes or tell them they did it wrong...!
[22:06] <ochosi> anyway, if there are no open action items i'll move along
[22:07] <knome> ack from me
[22:07] <bluesabre> carry on
[22:07] <ochosi> #topic Updates and Announcements
[22:07] <ochosi> btw, i forgot...
[22:07] <knome> #undo
[22:07] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
[22:07] <knome> there you go ;)
[22:07] <ochosi> who's all here?
[22:08] <ochosi> jd109: wanna introduce yourself?
[22:08] <ochosi> or any other new faces?
[22:08] <jd109> Hi
[22:08] <jd109> what to say
[22:08] <knome> (those who haven't typed anything, just make any noise now)
[22:08] <jd109> How is everyone doing
[22:08] <jd109> I am one of the wallpaper submitters
[22:08] <ochosi> ah cool
[22:08] <bluesabre> Fantastic
[22:08] <ochosi> submitters or also winners?
[22:08] <ochosi> (great in any case!)
[22:09] <jd109> have the winners been announced?
[22:09] <ochosi> i think so - knome ?
[22:09] <pleia2> no, but we've reached out to them
[22:09] <ochosi> right
[22:09] <ochosi> that's what i meant
[22:09] <jd109> I have been keeping an eye out
[22:09] <pleia2> alas, if you haven't heard from us, you are not one of the finalists
[22:09] <Unit193> WHich one(s) did you submit?
[22:09] <jd109> lol
[22:09] <pleia2> but the competition this time was fierce, we've never had so many high quality submissions
[22:10] <pleia2> it was hard deciding
[22:10] <bluesabre> Yeah, it was pretty great
[22:10] <jd109> um quite a few
[22:10] <jd109> the arch
[22:10] <jd109> the opera house
[22:10] <jd109> the flowers in the tea house
[22:10] <jd109> Pilatus
[22:10] <knome_web> i hit some lag that might mean i need to use this webclient...
[22:10] <jd109> and sesto
[22:11] <jd109> just those 5
[22:11] <ochosi> alrighty
[22:12] <jd109> yeah there were lots of good submissions
[22:12] <ochosi> anyway, thanks for showing up and we're glad if you wanna stick around!
[22:12] <jd109> thanks
[22:12] <knome_web> did i miss the #subtopic?
[22:12] <ochosi> there are lots of ways to contribute - not just wallpapers ;)
[22:12] <jd109> I agree I have been testing the latest iso too
[22:12] <ochosi> knome_web: not really, i didn't want to discuss the walls really, just have jd109 introduce himself
[22:12] <knome_web> aha, goodie :)
[22:13] <ochosi> that's great
[22:13] <ochosi> testing helps a lot too
[22:13] <knome_web> (there i go!)
[22:13] <ochosi> anyway, let's move the meetnig along a bit
[22:13] <bluesabre> jd109: the perspective on the arch one is really awesome btw :)
[22:13] <ochosi> #topic Updates and Announcements
[22:13] <knome> &n
[22:13] <knome> not that.
[22:13] <jd109> thanks!
[22:13] <knome> but hello from here again...
[22:13] <bluesabre> hello again knome
[22:13] <ochosi> #subtopic Wallpaper contest results
[22:14] <ochosi> knome: you're on
[22:14] <knome> great!
[22:14] <knome> so
[22:14] <knome> since i'm going to post to our blog soon, no spoiling here, but:
[22:14] <knome> #info We have 6 winning wallpapers from 6 different contestants!
[22:15] <ochosi> \o/
[22:15] <knome> #info We're still working with the contestants, but at least 5 of the winning submissions will be included in 4k resolution (woot!)
[22:15]  * pleia2 has envelopes queued up to send them all stickers
[22:15] <knome> #info Blog will be updated soon with winners' names and winning submissions :)
[22:16] <knome> yes, we also have the addresses for all winners so we're good to with our prizes as well!
[22:16] <ochosi> do we want to make all contributions available somewhere on the website?
[22:16] <knome> they are already available on the contests website :)
[22:16] <ochosi> oh crap :D
[22:16] <bluesabre> :D
[22:16] <knome> and yes, we will link to that page and for now it shouldn't disappear
[22:17]  * ochosi should better shut up
[22:17] <knome> disclaimer: the 4k versions aren't available on the contests page
[22:17] <ochosi> yeah, that's fine though
[22:17] <ochosi> as long as they are included in the release
[22:17] <knome> we'll have to figure out if we want to make them available somewhere apart from the package and its bzr branch
[22:18] <knome> mostly a question of bandwidth usage i guess
[22:18] <knome> and finally
[22:18] <knome> #info A huge thank you everybody for submitting! We had a total of 162 submissions compared to less than 100 last time. We have an awesome (and I hope a growing) community!
[22:19] <bluesabre> <3
[22:19] <ochosi> +1000
[22:19] <jd109> Thanks for running the contest! 
[22:19] <pleia2> yeah, it was really great
[22:19] <knome> no problem!
[22:20] <knome> that's all from me :)
[22:20] <bluesabre> (thanks to the team for getting your votes in a timely manner too)
[22:21] <knome> yes
[22:21] <knome> next time we will make voting easier...
[22:21] <knome> (even easier than it was now)
[22:21] <bluesabre> :)
[22:21] <ochosi> alrighty, perfect
[22:21] <ochosi> any other topics for updates and announcements..?
[22:21] <bluesabre> Sure
[22:22] <knome> f-f-f-freezes
[22:22] <bluesabre> #subtopic Release Schedule
[22:22] <Unit193> knome: I kept having to refresh the page for the indicator on each image to refresh after voting yay/nay.
[22:22] <bluesabre> #info Bionic Final Beta should be landing soon, today/tomorrow
[22:22] <pleia2> hooray
[22:22] <bluesabre> #info Translations are due next week
[22:23] <bluesabre> #info Final Freeze is the 23rd
[22:23] <knome> there shouldn't be much changed apart from the slideshow?
[22:23] <bluesabre> #info Final Freeze is the 26th
[22:23] <knome> i mean at least that will have time to land?
[22:23] <bluesabre> knome: yeah, will be doing a batch of translation updates this weekend probably
[22:23] <bluesabre> And bug fixes
[22:23] <knome> ahha
[22:23] <bluesabre> #undo
[22:23] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[22:23] <bluesabre> #info Final Release is the 26th
[22:24] <knome> :)
[22:24] <bluesabre> Contributors, come and get it :)
[22:24] <bluesabre> That's it for dates
[22:24] <knome> pleia2, maybe a social media run for making people translate the slideshow?
[22:24] <bluesabre> oh
[22:24] <bluesabre> one more
[22:24] <bluesabre> :)
[22:25] <bluesabre> #info Release Candidate on the 19th
[22:25] <pleia2> knome: if we have some very clear instructions as to how to do this, we absolutely should
[22:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: so i presume we can still get today's thunar release in?
[22:25] <knome> pleia2, we should be able to make it relatively brief...
[22:26] <bluesabre> ochosi: pretty sure, yeah
[22:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: plus i pushed two small icon fixes today that should also go in
[22:26] <ochosi> (small but not irrelevant)
[22:26] <bluesabre> ochosi: will take a look and upload sometime in the next 36 hours
[22:26] <ochosi> awesome, thanks a bunch
[22:27] <ochosi> anything else regarding the release schedule?
[22:27] <bluesabre> Nope
[22:28] <ochosi> k, any other subtopics for "updates and announcements"?
[22:28] <bluesabre> None from me
[22:28] <knome> i don't think - yet
[22:28] <knome> either on the last meeting of the cycle or first after
[22:28] <knome> :)
[22:28] <ochosi> Unit193, pleia2 ?
[22:29] <Unit193> ochosi: Hi!
[22:29] <pleia2> nothing from me
[22:29] <ochosi> :]
[22:29] <knome> or the hiding krytarik 
[22:29] <pleia2> :D
[22:29] <Unit193> Well, there's the new thunar we should try and "slip" in.
[22:29] <Unit193> Oh, numlockx is fixed.
[22:29] <bluesabre> hooray!
[22:29] <ochosi> @lurkers: rise from ye dwellings!
[22:30] <ochosi> noice
[22:30] <ochosi> alright then
[22:31] <ochosi> #topic Discussion
[22:31] <ochosi> #subtopic Icon changes after UIF (ochosi)
[22:31] <ochosi> so i just briefly wanted to run something by you
[22:31] <ochosi> there have been a few changes in our icon theme's upstream (elementary) 
[22:31] <ochosi> they have started to rework the palette
[22:32] <ochosi> and you can see this already in bionic because i pulled in quite a few reworked icons
[22:32] <ochosi> now we have e.g. some inconsistent greens
[22:33] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/ppHvVhK.png
[22:33] <ochosi> left is new, right is old
[22:33] <ochosi> i could spend some more time updating these icons to the new green
[22:33] <ochosi> but we're past UIF
[22:33] <ochosi> so the main question is: does this qualify as bugfix?
[22:33] <knome> meh
[22:33] <ochosi> or: would you even care enough for me to do the work and for us to push this?
[22:34] <bluesabre> I'd say... not really a bugfix. But the purpose of the freezes is to make sure we're not crunched for time with replacing screenshots and the like
[22:34] <knome> i don't think it's a bugfix, but i don't think the UIFe paperwork or getting the ack is too much work if we want this in
[22:34] <knome> on another note: will this rework finish before the release?
[22:35] <ochosi> well we're already in this semi-consistent state
[22:35] <knome> or in other words, will we release with all-consistent icons even with the UIFe paperwork and uploading thingy?
[22:35] <ochosi> so there's really not much to lose
[22:35] <ochosi> hard to say, it's a lot of icons
[22:35] <knome> and to go even further: do we want to release an SRU?
[22:35] <ochosi> even if the work is repetitious and anyone could help, i doubt anybody apart from me will contribute
[22:36] <bluesabre> That's the nature of these things :)
[22:36] <ochosi> as we dont use the icons in screenshots in our docs i consider an SRU absolutely doable
[22:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: the nature of icon updates is that i have to work on them alone..? :D
[22:36] <bluesabre> What sort of work load is involved? Surely it's more than search & replace?
[22:37] <ochosi> well i have to open every icon and add a new gradient, replacing the old one
[22:37] <ochosi> i doubt the svgs are consistent enough to be able to script this
[22:37] <knome> i didn't mean the SRU would be not doable even if we had screenshots or that
[22:37] <ochosi> most of them are in the actions/ subfolders though
[22:37] <ali1234> i would be willing to have a go at scripting if you can explain what needs to be done
[22:37] <knome> the question is if we think that getting this consistency is important enough for an SRU on itself
[22:38] <ochosi> (and i already fixed a lot of icons already)
[22:38] <ochosi> ali1234: that'd be awesome!
[22:38] <knome> because the SRU process is a different beast than an UIFe
[22:38] <bluesabre> Yeah
[22:38] <knome> and that said...
[22:38] <ochosi> knome: i know, my main target would be UIFe
[22:38] <knome> if we think we will be doing an SRU, then don't sweat on the UIFe's now
[22:38] <knome> but if we think we can get it all in by release, then for sure i vote for some more sweat for ochosi - and can do the UIFe paperwork
[22:40] <bluesabre> I think it'd be a nice to have.
[22:40] <ochosi> right
[22:40] <bluesabre> The difference isn't drastic, but any additional polish we can have is welcome
[22:40] <knome> definitely - we're kind of in a state where i'd rather go all way than leave the inconsistency there
[22:40] <bluesabre> If we enter SRU territory, it gets painful
[22:40] <ochosi> (so the two current commits are in fact fixes of icons that were broken - we should get those in anyway)
[22:40] <knome> bluesabre, i vote for more polish only for the polish speaking users!
[22:41] <ochosi> ok, so then i propose the following:
[22:41] <ochosi> 1) bluesabre uploads the two commits that are bugfix as bugfix
[22:41] <ochosi> 2) ochosi tries the scripted approach with ali1234 
[22:41] <ochosi> 3) if 2) fails ochosi tries to update the icons manually (as many as possible)
[22:41] <ochosi> 4) knome does the paperwork for UIFe
[22:41] <jd109> can I make a suggestion
[22:41] <ochosi> sure
[22:41] <jd109> if It is not stepping on toes
[22:41] <bluesabre> :)
[22:41] <ali1234> how many icons are we talking about, approximately?
[22:42] <jd109> how about switch the greens on the new icons 
[22:42] <knome> ochosi, ack from me on that proposal
[22:42] <jd109> back to be consistent with all the others
[22:42] <jd109> it would be much less work
[22:42] <ochosi> jd109: not really, the new greens outnumber the old ones by far
[22:42] <jd109> oh okay
[22:42] <jd109> :-(
[22:42] <ochosi> ali1234: hmm, maybe 50?
[22:43] <knome> (and even if not, then we would be "outdated" for two years until the next LTS)
[22:43] <ali1234> 50 x 8 different sizes each or 50 total?
[22:43] <knome> pretty sure ×
[22:43] <ochosi> 50 total
[22:43] <bluesabre> oh wow
[22:43] <knome> really?
[22:43] <ochosi> x8 would include the symlinks
[22:43] <bluesabre> Seems obvious
[22:43] <bluesabre> Let's go for it :D
[22:43] <ochosi> hey - i've done a lot of work already!
[22:43] <ali1234> i guess svg doesn't have different sizes
[22:43] <ochosi> :)
[22:43] <knome> yes indeed, let's go for it
[22:43] <ochosi> >900 icon updates in this cycle
[22:44] <bluesabre> with just one ochosi... we need more ochosis to be more productive
[22:44] <knome> ochosi, now the proposal with #action and we're good to go ;)
[22:44] <ochosi> just one more follow-up question
[22:44] <ochosi> i can also clear out some other inconsistencies
[22:44] <knome> like?
[22:44] <ochosi> where icons look very different in different sizes
[22:45] <ochosi> e.g. MS excel files look totally different in 128px
[22:45] <knome> if the changes are trivial (eg. don't take a huge amount of time), go for it
[22:45] <knome> we can bunch this all up as an "consistency" update
[22:45] <ochosi> 128px: http://i.imgur.com/a01oBEf.png
[22:45] <ochosi> 64px and below: http://i.imgur.com/gPuWqVn.png
[22:46] <knome> hah, yes
[22:46] <ochosi> that's really confusing and misleading
[22:46] <ochosi> i just noticed it a short while ago
[22:46] <knome> indeed
[22:46] <ochosi> (i obviously don't work with office files "enough")
[22:46] <knome> yes, i'm all for fixing this as well while we are at it
[22:46] <bluesabre> hence your sanity
[22:46] <ochosi> lol
[22:46] <bluesabre> I agree
[22:47] <bluesabre> One nice UIFe bug to cover it all
[22:47] <knome> yep
[22:47] <ochosi> #action bluesabre will push beaaf3f6f47fb1e80fb7821fe69b3513a707cfbe and 28120d05e011ec89412d33d7dc5897d7f6bcf8ee from elementary-xfce to xubuntu-artwork as bugfix
[22:47] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will push beaaf3f6f47fb1e80fb7821fe69b3513a707cfbe and 28120d05e011ec89412d33d7dc5897d7f6bcf8ee from elementary-xfce to xubuntu-artwork as bugfix
[22:47] <knome> and not even by a stretch, it really is one thing
[22:47]  * bluesabre is prepared
[22:47] <ochosi> #action ochosi and ali1234 will try to script the gradient swap-out for most icons that need updating
[22:47] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and ali1234 will try to script the gradient swap-out for most icons that need updating
[22:48] <ochosi> #action ochosi will manually update whatever icons are left over from the script approach
[22:48] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi will manually update whatever icons are left over from the script approach
[22:48] <ochosi> #action knome will file the UIFe paperwork once the branch is ready
[22:48] <meetingology> ACTION: knome will file the UIFe paperwork once the branch is ready
[22:48] <ochosi> #action bluesabre will again be doing the uploading honours
[22:48] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will again be doing the uploading honours
[22:49] <knome> i'm filing the bug now that it's ready for subbing appropriate teams to it
[22:49] <ochosi> what's the latest point in time for getting the UIFe approved?
[22:49] <bluesabre> Lots of xubuntu-artwork uploads in the next few days :)
[22:49] <knome> ochosi, as long as it happens before the release...
[22:49] <ochosi> yeah, but how many days before
[22:49] <ochosi> i can't remember what was a realistic window
[22:49] <knome> i think we don't want to go into the final freeze territory
[22:50] <bluesabre> ochosi: RC is the 19th, archive probably locked at that point
[22:50] <ochosi> ok
[22:50] <ochosi> so i have roughly 10 days
[22:50] <ochosi> sounds do-able
[22:50] <ochosi> thanks, we can move on to other discussion items (if there are any)
[22:50]  * bluesabre believes in ochosi
[22:50] <knome> yes, i have one
[22:50] <ochosi> k go ahead
[22:51] <bluesabre> I need to relocate, bbiab
[22:51] <knome> #topic Discussion
[22:51] <knome> #subtopic 18.04 Community Wallpaper Contest Winners
[22:51] <knome> https://xubuntu.org/news/18-04-community-wallpaper-contest-winners/
[22:51] <knome> done :)
[22:52] <ochosi> noice
[22:52] <ochosi> well done
[22:52] <jd109> Nice!
[22:52] <ochosi> any other discussion items?
[22:52] <knome> not from me
[22:52] <ochosi> (we're slowly but surely running out of meeting time)
[22:55] <ochosi> ok, if not...
[22:55] <ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
[22:56] <ochosi> #action Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
[22:56] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to schedule the next meeting
[22:56] <knome> iiiiit's Uniiiiiiiit193!
[22:56] <pleia2> thanks for chairing, ochosi 
[22:56] <ochosi> weeeee
[22:56] <bluesabre> back
[22:56] <ochosi> thanks everyone for participating
[22:56] <ochosi> hah, right in time for the wrap-up, bluesabre 
[22:56] <knome> thank you ochosi 
[22:56] <jd109> thanks!
[22:56] <ochosi> #endmeeting
[22:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  5 22:56:59 2018 UTC.  
[22:56] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-04-05-22.02.moin.txt
[22:57] <bluesabre> Thanks everybody!
[22:57] <Unit193> Dang, I'm awful at those.
[22:57] <bluesabre> Thanks Unit193!
[22:57] <bluesabre> :D
[22:57] <pleia2> knome: shall I social media the wallpaper post?
[22:57] <Unit193> What'd I do?
[22:57] <knome> pleia2, yes please
[22:57] <knome> bug 1761623
[22:58] <knome> so that's there, ready for the process to roll
[22:58] <bluesabre> Very nice
[22:58] <bluesabre> Guess I have some work to do when I get home :)
[22:58] <knome> :)
[22:59] <Unit193> Testbuilt thunar.
[22:59] <bluesabre> :)
[22:59] <ochosi> kewl
[23:00] <ochosi> ali1234: for the scripting, shall i start to describe the manual process..?
[23:01] <ali1234> okay so what am i looking at? i cloned elementary-xfce repo
[23:01] <ochosi> ok, navigate to elementary-xfce/actions/24
[23:01] <ali1234> back.svg, bottom.svg look like the old green?
[23:02] <ochosi> open edit-redo.svg, take the gradient from there and apply to go-bottom, go-down, ...
[23:02] <ochosi> take the green from the path (the outline of the arrow from edit-redo.svg) and apply that too
[23:02] <pleia2> knome: how do we get the wallpaper winners blog post to the front of xubuntu.org ?
[23:02] <knome> oh
[23:03] <ali1234> okay. so this is just purely a colour change right?
[23:03] <knome> pleia2, there we go
[23:03] <pleia2> ty
[23:03] <knome> np
[23:03] <knome> the answer: make sure the post is in the "Articles" category
[23:04] <ochosi> ali1234: yes
[23:04] <pleia2> good to know :)
[23:04] <ali1234> ochosi: can you show me a git commit where you've done this?
[23:04] <ochosi> ali1234: that's why it could be scriptable
[23:04] <ochosi> sure, one sec
[23:05] <knome> pleia2, updated the excerpt to a hand-tailored one
[23:06]  * pleia2 thumbs up
[23:06] <ochosi> ali1234: unfortunately the one i did manually and that would be a good example is part of a bigger commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/b85a1d068836f07accd7c4b1605720581ba0b041#diff-a3092494930a2366b914d2f431145af7
[23:07] <ochosi> look for 16/dialog-ok-apply.svg
[23:08] <ali1234> okay, i'm a bit puzzled by this
[23:09] <ali1234> what happened to xlink:href="#linearGradient2264"
[23:09] <ali1234> is that still in the file?
[23:10] <knome> i don't think that has any meaning
[23:10] <knome> see how the nodes refer to the id(2427) later
[23:10] <ochosi> ali1234: i think not, there are oftentimes lots of unused gradients in svgs
[23:10] <ochosi> would need to run the vacuum script more often...
[23:10] <knome> ochosi, this isn't even an unused gradient
[23:10] <ochosi> (or simply as a pre-commit hook or something)
[23:11] <knome> i think this is an inkscape-internal (?) link/id
[23:11] <knome> which isn't referred to from anywhere
[23:13] <ali1234> okay so the old gradient has only two stops, the new one has four, is that right?
[23:14] <knome> actually the xlink:href is referred from the other linearGradient element...
[23:15] <knome> and there that 2264 is too when you expand the code
[23:15]  * knome facepalms
[23:15] <knome> handling different amount of steps can be a bit tricky :)
[23:16] <ali1234> the stroke is different colour too?
[23:16] <knome> that's likely
[23:17] <ochosi> indeed
[23:17] <ochosi> so the transition that is probably hard is the steps
[23:17] <ochosi> and then the path/stroke also needs to be changed
[23:17] <knome> ochosi, do you know if the steps/offset is always the same though?
[23:18] <ochosi> between icons of the new gradient you mean?
[23:18] <ochosi> tbh for the icons i'm interested in the steps would always be the same
[23:19] <knome> yes
[23:19] <ochosi> if it helps with the script, i can manually fix one single arrow icon
[23:19] <ochosi> then you have something to go on
[23:19] <ali1234> do you know the exact colours before and after?
[23:19] <ali1234> or is it a case of "move the sliders until it looks right"
[23:20] <ochosi> no, this should be consistent across icons
[23:20] <ochosi> so we should be able to derive the colors before and after from a single example
[23:21] <ali1234> some of these svgs have like 15 copies of the original gradient
[23:21] <ochosi> yeah
[23:21] <ochosi> i know
[23:21] <knome> could we create a simple script that runs inkscape without the GUI and vacuums?
[23:22] <ochosi> that's why i said, vacuuming
[23:22] <ochosi> yeah
[23:22] <knome> and repeat that on alllllll the icons
[23:22] <ochosi> those scripts already exist
[23:22] <knome> that would likely help
[23:22] <knome> i'm sure
[23:22] <knome> and it's a oneliner most likely so not an issue
[23:22] <knome> just figure out the inkscape parameter
[23:22] <ali1234> found on google: for f in *.svg; do inkscape --file="$f" --verb="FileVacuum" --verb="FileSave" --verb="FileQuit"; done
[23:23] <knome> oh lewl?
[23:23] <knome> output from "inkscape --help" is funny
[23:23] <bluesabre> google master
[23:23] <ali1234> oh there is a --vacuum-defs parameter
[23:24] <knome> ali1234, that sounds like a lot better than that verb crap
[23:24] <knome> https://temp.knome.fi/other/inkscape-cli-help.png
[23:24] <knome> i'd say it would be more useful if it was the *other* column with more width
[23:25] <knome> can't always win
[23:25] <knome> (or be helpful)
[23:25] <ali1234> mine looks different
[23:25] <ali1234> anyway...
[23:25] <knome> interesting..
[23:25] <ochosi> https://github.com/elementary/icons/blob/master/pre-commit
[23:25] <ochosi> that's most likely what we want
[23:25] <knome> looks fantastic :)
[23:26] <ali1234> don't need -z and --export-plain according to the manual page
[23:26] <knome> automatic stuff ftw
[23:26] <ali1234> it's assumed no gui and in place if you just say --vacuum-defs $file
[23:26] <knome> right, but --export-plain removes all the sodipodi and inkscape namespaced nodes
[23:26] <ali1234> ah okay
[23:27] <knome> plain SVG vs. inkscape SVG
[23:27] <ali1234> yeah that would probably be a good idea
[23:27] <ochosi> i think i never vacuumed the theme because it gets converted to png anyway...
[23:27] <knome> former is smaller in size as well as easier to read
[23:28] <ali1234> gonna be one huge commit if you vacuum the whole thing :)
[23:28] <knome> sure :)
[23:29] <ochosi> i know
[23:29] <ochosi> feel free to propose a pullrequest for that one
[23:29] <ochosi> i gotta get some sleep now
[23:30] <knome> nighty ochosi :)
[23:30] <bluesabre> nighty ochosi
[23:32] <ali1234> export-plain really messes around with the files
[23:32] <knome> yes
[23:32] <knome> i think it would probably be ideal to have a quick visual look at the files after doing that...
[23:32] <ali1234> running it now. i have a feeling it will take quite some time
[23:33] <knome> actually if you believe the inkscape wiki, no visual changes are made
[23:33] <knome> but somehow this is so fishy;)
[23:33] <bluesabre> :D
[23:33] <bluesabre> lossless-ish
[23:34] <ali1234> it is re-ordering the attributes on nodes, causing diff inflation
[23:34] <knome> like "i'll change 75% of your file, but don't worry, it's the exact same thing!"
[23:34] <ali1234> but not much in the way of real changes
[23:40] <ochosi> nighty!
[23:43] <ali1234>  3859 files changed, 439255 insertions(+), 986530 deletions(-)
[23:44] <Unit193> Welp.
[23:46] <bluesabre> :|
[23:47] <ali1234> trying just vacuum now
[23:51] <knome> i'm off to bed as well
[23:51] <knome> nighty and thanks for looking at this (too) ali1234 :)
[23:52] <bluesabre> nighty cnoma
[23:52] <bluesabre> :)
[23:53] <ali1234> night
[23:53] <ali1234> ... and just using vacuum defs ends up adding more cruft than it removes
[23:54] <ali1234> the diff is still significantly smaller though
[23:58] <ali1234>  3829 files changed, 49015 insertions(+), 466754 deletions(-)
[23:59] <bluesabre> Both are effectively rewrites. If we're considering using that upstream git hook, might as well go for the full vacuum