[00:03] <krytarik> OvenWerks: I actually dropped it as a dependency from the seed here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.bionic/revision/1508 - assuming it's referring back to the seed itself, rather than another, non-meta package with the same name.  So one could try just adding it back.
[00:05] <OvenWerks> that would do it...
[00:06] <OvenWerks> the date looks like right after I last tested it :P
[00:07] <OvenWerks> So just the live file seems to need it.
[00:07] <OvenWerks> Was it removed for being broken in some way?
[00:07] <krytarik> Yeah, and no refresh of the metapackages needed in this case either.
[00:13] <krytarik> OvenWerks: You could try just installing it in the Live session and see if it works.
[00:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Woah! Looks like a party in here!
[00:35] <krytarik> Oh nooo!  Everybody hide!
[00:35] <ErichEickmeyer> hehe
[02:43] <OvenWerks> krytarik: Ja dat seems to work. I did not do a full install... but close enough.
[02:44] <krytarik> Ok, who of us gets the honor of readding it to the seed then? :P
[02:54] <krytarik> (I'd be fine doing it myself.)
[03:22] <OvenWerks> krytarik: ya, maybe do that. With booting and rebooting, I'm getting lost.
[03:22] <krytarik> Ok then.
[03:23] <OvenWerks> I have a spare partition I can test with when it gets respun
[03:53] <krytarik> OvenWerks: Committed and pushed.
[15:19] <metalbiker> has there been any talk about changing the DE some to make ubuntu studio fresh? maybe adding options to choose a different desktop environmnet upon installation?
[15:34] <OvenWerks> metalbiker: yes, but not for 18.04
[15:34] <OvenWerks> metalbiker: perhpas stick around (or come back) in about 3.5 hours for todays meeting...
[15:35] <metalbiker> ovenwerks: sounds good! i'll do my best to be here at that time.
[15:37] <OvenWerks> as an aside, imo, "fresh" is not very important, workflow is. I find many newer DEs make my workflow worse, take away cpu my DSP could be using, etc.
[15:39] <OvenWerks> many of the newer DEs are pretty good for average use with one full screen application at a time. I never have less than two windows open on a screen, with 5 being my average.
[15:40] <metalbiker> ovenwerks: understood. after rethinking my question, you'd really need a very lean DE like what ubuntu studio's got. and i think it's xfce, correct? but i understand that workflows are very important.
[15:41] <OvenWerks> xfce, at the time we switched from gnome2 was sort of the best compromise.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> lxde had a patched together feel and lacked some features generally thought of as normal, gnome3 would not even run on a lot of common hardware.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> unity was to much like a phone
[15:43] <OvenWerks> kde is ok, but we have so many gtk based applications it didn't make sense
[15:44] <OvenWerks> That is changing as more of the graphics applications use qt or kde libs
[15:45] <OvenWerks> However, KDE has chosen not to follow some of the window placing standards which means multi-window applications like Ardour or Gimp end up with windows covered by other windows that should not be
[15:47] <OvenWerks> metalbiker: we could use more people (like at least one :) working on theming and such to keep things fresher that way.
[15:47] <metalbiker> understood. i use Kubuntu for general purposes and I do like the plasma desktop a lot. i remember back when i first started using studio for my recording work, it did feel like it was just patched together and not very smooth for some reason.
[15:49] <OvenWerks> on the other hand there is at least one person who wants the DE to feel like gnome2 did complete with icons and everything else.
[15:49] <metalbiker> ovenwerks: i'd be interested in helping with theming but i don't have any programming knowledge at the moment. i mean, i can design some graphics using GIMP and other tools of that nature and i might be able to help.
[15:49] <OvenWerks> I had three of our family computers on KDE for a while (wife and sons) but we are down to just 1
[15:50] <OvenWerks> That would be great. theming is not my thing at all :) the menu setup is mostly mine though.
[15:52] <metalbiker> cool! i'm going back to school to finish my bachelor's degree in software development and at the same time, i'm going to be working on my music so helping with theming'll be a great project for me.
[15:52] <OvenWerks> one thing I will say about kde is that the kde menu setup is one of the few that are correct. xfce, gnome, lxde menus are wrong (in one small point) in a way that keeps custom menu from working correctly
[15:54] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio needs more people, some of us have just been around to long and most are too busy with life.
[15:55] <metalbiker> oh yeah, i agree! i love the amount of customization you get with it. i used xfce, or xubuntu, for a while and it was ok. gnome 2, eh. gnome 3 was better. never used lxde and i should. kde feels right.
[15:57] <metalbiker> i've always been a super big fan of ubuntu studio since i'm a musician and since i've gotten older, i've gotten more involved with distros but mainly in testing. i just usually grab the very first daily build and ride it out and file bugs. but to get a chance to help with making themes for studio, i'm down for that.
[15:57] <OvenWerks> when I use kde, I generally use it with the win95 menus ;)
[15:58] <metalbiker> sometime today i'm looking to finally put together my recording rig and it'll of course having ubuntu studio on it and i'm excited to see it run.
[15:58] <metalbiker> win95 menus??!! lol i didn't know there was such an option! 
[15:59] <metalbiker> wow, windows 95. dude, that makes me feel old. lmao that was 23 years ago. i remember when it came out. lol oh boy.
[15:59] <OvenWerks> I can't remember what they call it, vintage or something... clasic maybe?
[15:59] <OvenWerks> *classic
[16:00] <metalbiker> could be. i just use the default theme. but i'm testing kubuntu 18.04 on this laptop here and i'll be getting the beta release of ubuntu studio later for my recording rig.
[16:00] <OvenWerks> I also like to have multiple workspaces
[16:01] <OvenWerks> (I use 4 normally... not as crazy as some xfwm setups)
[16:02] <metalbiker> now that i do like. the multiple workspaces. like being able to put ardour on one screen/workspace and place another program for something else on the other screen.
[16:02] <OvenWerks> I like a clean desktop with no icones on it
[16:03] <OvenWerks> I do like the gnome3 idea of not creating extra workspaces until you put an application there.
[16:03] <OvenWerks> (unity did this too)
[16:05] <OvenWerks> kde and gnome have the advantage of a bigger dev group, xfce and lxde are both two people.
[16:05] <metalbiker> yeah, i really liked that. i remember studio having multiples i think. 
[16:05] <metalbiker> what?! there's only 2 people for the latter? whoa. 
[16:06] <OvenWerks> Thats the fist thing I do when I install US is make 4 workspaces and add the ws changer to the pannel
[16:06] <metalbiker> i know one my fellow loco team members is part of the xubuntu council or something. 
[16:06] <metalbiker> and you can assign workspaces to specific monitors, correct?
[16:06] <OvenWerks> xubuntu has a greater number, but xfce itself is quite small.
[16:07] <metalbiker> oh, i see. 
[16:07] <OvenWerks> one my setup the two monitors are like one big monitor.
[16:08] <metalbiker> i've got to step out for a bit. bbiab
[16:08] <OvenWerks> so the two screens makeup one workspace. I think that is the only way xfce (and most DEs) work.
[18:29] <OvenWerks> Wow 16 people in the channel... must be a record...
[18:35] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's what happens when you start drawing attention to a project. :)
[18:37] <OvenWerks> I think drawing attention to it's possible demise helped too.
[18:41] <captain-tux_> Hi guys
[18:41] <OvenWerks> o/
[18:46] <eylul> hi
[18:46] <eylul> hi
[18:46] <eylul> and yeah
[18:47] <pmd1> Hi All
[18:47] <eylul> oh if you don't mind me asking who is who from the ML btw? for those who is using different names? :)
[18:49] <pmd1> I am Daniel. new to irc chat.
[18:50] <eylul> hi! :)
[18:50] <captain-tux_> Hi, I'm Thomas from the mailinglist.
[18:51] <eylul> :)
[18:52] <eylul> I have to repeat and agree with what OvenWerks said by the way. it is nice to see the chatroom occupied and people interested in continuing the project
[18:54] <captain-tux_> Yes, same. I'm happy that so many responded to the meetup request, it's really cool.
[18:55] <eylul> :)
[18:58] <ErichEickmeyer> I'm here.
[18:58] <eylul> welcome
[18:58] <captain-tux_> Hello :)
[18:59] <ErichEickmeyer> o/
[18:59] <captain-tux_> Should we get started or wait a couple more minutes?
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably wait a little. I just now got OvenWerks's email.
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Just to give people a little extra.
[19:00] <captain-tux_> Yep, okay. :D 
[19:01] <eylul> do you guys have a meeting agenda planned? or a list of topics? or we are doing this freestyle? :)
[19:01] <OvenWerks> from past experinece... I would say we are all here already... the email was a just in case.
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> It looks like we're all here. I have no agenda unless somebody else does.
[19:02] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably one thing should be to ratify who is on the council.
[19:02] <OvenWerks> release, artwork, next cycle?
[19:02] <eylul> yeah
[19:02] <eylul> also state of existing projects
[19:02] <eylul> although some of that has been sorted in ML
[19:03] <OvenWerks> Are daily spins stopped? If so we should request a respin for bug fix.
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> The daily spins seem to be rolling, Ross would have more insight on that.
[19:04] <OvenWerks> the bug with the application chooser on install shold be fixed and needs testing after a spin.
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> I had a brief conversation with the Xubuntu QA lead, and he said he had worked with Ross in the past on the daily spins / beta freezes.
[19:05] <captain-tux_> Ah, okay. I'll have a look at that.
[19:05] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, it seems as though, from the Facebook comments and what-not, the bugs seem to be a minimum.
[19:05] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed, the app chooser needs to be fixed.
[19:05] <ErichEickmeyer> We can talk about this later, but I have an idea for a DE chooser as well, keeping it with Xfce as the default.
[19:06] <OvenWerks> the fix should be in, just need a respin to check it.
[19:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. Fix for the installer app chooser. √
[19:06] <captain-tux_> Alright.
[19:07] <ErichEickmeyer> How about -control? Who was working on that?
[19:07] <OvenWerks> me
[19:07] <ErichEickmeyer> Sweet. How is that coming?
[19:07] <OvenWerks> there has been work and there is use for testing
[19:08] <OvenWerks> The missing part has been found :) and now the GUI can talk to the daemon.
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. Are we too late to get it in the dailys or even the bionic repo?
[19:08] <OvenWerks> Thats a ross question
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. So, that's something that needs to be talked about in the mailing list then since I'm not seeing Ross here.
[19:09] <eylul> we can sometimes request exceptions to feature freeze. 
[19:09] <eylul> but the question also is do we have time to test it enough to put it in beta?
[19:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably not a bad idea.
[19:09] <ErichEickmeyer> It's too late for beta, afaik.
[19:09] <OvenWerks> -controls is still somewhat alpha, there are some known bugs
[19:09] <eylul> maybe a better solution can be to put it in as soon as next cycle starts
[19:10] <OvenWerks> I agree
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: How comfortable would you feel in including it by default as a new feature, but with the "alpha" or "beta" status warning?
[19:10] <eylul> and put eyes on it during the 6 month period? it will also give it plenty of time to mature until next LTS
[19:10] <OvenWerks> do yu mean this cycle or next?
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, getting it in 18.10 is a great idea.
[19:10] <OvenWerks> next cycle for sure.
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> I meant this cycle, but if we can't or you don't feel comfortable, then next definitely.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> must have been a new spin, my iso is dl at 86%
[19:12] <OvenWerks> getting bug fixes in to an already released package is harder than in the next cycle.
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, then let's just push it to 18.10 along with any other new features.
[19:12] <OvenWerks> I am not good at packaging, backports, etc.
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Anybody else agree?
[19:13] <captain-tux_> Sounds logical.
[19:13] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, cool. I'm going to be writing up the meeting minutes and I'll post them on the website.
[19:13] <eylul> I think that is a good solution also backporting down the line is a solution. :) 
[19:13] <OvenWerks> It is of course available from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild for 18.04 as well.
[19:13] <aleb> Hi, I'm a Pitivi video editor maintainer.
[19:13] <eylul> hi!!!
[19:14] <captain-tux_> Hello
[19:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed. I've been considering we do a backports repo akin to Kubuntu.
[19:14] <pmd11> Hi Aleb
[19:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Hi Aleb!
[19:14] <eylul> Erich the main problem.. just going to bring it up here as we have to discuss
[19:14] <eylul> is people power
[19:14] <eylul> we have one person experienced in packaging. 2 developers with limited time
[19:15] <eylul> otherwise we have plenty of ideas. so maybe one thing to consider when we think about these projects :)
[19:15] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Absolutely. I'm not experienced in packaging .deb, but I've packaged .rpm in the past and I'm working on transferring those skills.
[19:15] <eylul> is how to sort that :)
[19:15] <eylul> *nods*
[19:15] <eylul> I am just putting that out there. because it is something that has been bothering me, our limited dev resources and our unability to train
[19:15] <eylul> which turned into a vicious circle in past releases
[19:16]  * OvenWerks can make a package that installs... but not one that pleases debian or ubuntu :P
[19:16] <eylul> debian packages are tricky.
[19:16] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Yeah. I totally agree, but, even though I'm not really well-known, I'm fairly well-connected. I was part of the Ubuntu MATE project when it first started and can get tips from Martin Wimpress (flexiondotorg) if he has time.
[19:17] <OvenWerks> -controls is all script for that reason. I would prefer c++ with fltk, but packaging becomes harder
[19:18] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, perhaps that could be a future port, but I think to have the featurs that -controls is getting would be a huge boon to future improvements.
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> So, next subject: artwork. Our artwork has been pretty much the same for the past couple releases, and we should logically stay put for this release, but does anybody have any ideas for 18.10?
[19:20] <eylul> there was a plan to make some new wallpapers. I do have SOME photography but nothing that is branded so to speak
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Same.
[19:20] <OvenWerks> normally... we make our biggest art changes for an LT
[19:20] <OvenWerks>  ;)
[19:20] <eylul> yeah and I did drop the ball on that last fall
[19:21] <OvenWerks> we all did
[19:21] <ErichEickmeyer> It would be nice to have big art changes for this LTS, but I fear it's too late unless we can get some sort of exception, but for artwork that seems like a longshot at this point.
[19:21] <eylul> when IS the release exactly?
[19:21] <OvenWerks> even a new backdrop would be nice
[19:22] <captain-tux_> 27th? 19th is RC, right?
[19:22] <ErichEickmeyer> 27th is correct.
[19:22] <eylul> I might be able to put something together but I do need some ideas what type of thing we want. do we want photography? do we want another iteration of logo? 
[19:22] <ErichEickmeyer> RC is the 19th.
[19:22] <eylul> ouch
[19:23] <captain-tux_> Well, Len said that the 14.04 wallpaper would work well for single and dual monitor setups and I agree. Maybe there's a way to make one similar, just a little bigger without much hassle?
[19:23] <ErichEickmeyer> My bad, 26th is correct, the RC on the 19th is still correct for final freeze aka RC.
[19:24] <captain-tux_> Otoh, some recently complemented me on the stock 16.04 wallpaper, so... ;)
[19:24] <eylul> :)
[19:25] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, if we want to change or add wallpaper, we have <12 days.
[19:25] <eylul> alright let me look into this, this weekend
[19:25] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[19:26] <ErichEickmeyer> How about theming? Still stick with Numix Blue?
[19:27] <OvenWerks> Something that can be split down the middle and loose some of the top and bottom looks good on dual monitors... if they are side by side. maybe not so nice if they are top and bottom.
[19:28] <ErichEickmeyer> Forgive my ignorance, but is Xfce even capable of that?
[19:28] <OvenWerks> I would like to see some thing (anything) with a contrasting title bar for focus
[19:28] <OvenWerks> I always change to Moheli
[19:28] <captain-tux_> ErichEickmeyer, yes. :)
[19:28] <ErichEickmeyer> Hmmm... I was going to suggest Arc or Adapta since they have dark variants for those who need it, but I'm open to other ideas.
[19:29] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux_: Thanks. :)
[19:29] <eylul> Ovenwerks: nods*
[19:30] <eylul> ErichEickmeyer: I think main thing is that it is relatively minimalistic and.. well
[19:30] <eylul> something with easy to grab sides would be nice
[19:30] <eylul> in terms of windowing theme, that is one of the primary issues I was noticing from the usability perspective back when I used XFCE
[19:30] <eylul> when you resize the window etc
[19:30] <OvenWerks> right grabable sides and corners too.
[19:30] <captain-tux_> Wa that a Greybird issue?
[19:31] <eylul> which one were we using by default?
[19:31] <OvenWerks> There is no particular issue besides we end up with whatever xubuntu chooses.
[19:31] <eylul> (I kind of had my own custom window decorations so rarely used the default US ones)
[19:31] <OvenWerks> numix I think is default.
[19:31] <captain-tux_> eylul, same, good question... :/
[19:32] <ErichEickmeyer> Last I checked, Xubuntu was still using Greybird, but maybe i don't remember correctly.
[19:32] <eylul> It might have been
[19:32] <ErichEickmeyer> I just remember that UbuStu has a different default theme.
[19:32] <captain-tux_> I'll start my beta live system.
[19:32] <OvenWerks> greybird has both no side corner handles as well as all grey title.
[19:33] <eylul> *nods*
[19:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, having something that functions the way we like it and can agree is priority. Perhaps we experiment with different themes and report back?
[19:34] <OvenWerks> xubuntu is a general/easy to use flavour so while it is nice to be able to base things off of xubuntu, our needs are different
[19:34] <eylul> I would say easy to grab sides and corners is pretty universal
[19:34] <eylul> :)
[19:34] <OvenWerks> Studio is not a browsing flavour, but a development (art development as happens) flavour
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed, and if we decide to add DEs in the future, it would be nice to have something that looks good on whatever DEs we go with.
[19:35] <eylul> *sincerely hopes answer to that doesn't mean creating a custom theme* XD
[19:35] <OvenWerks> Do themes work with more than one DE?
[19:35] <eylul> which it very well might
[19:35] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes. You can usually find both GTK2/3 variants of the same theme, and Qt is starting to get versions of those themes adapted.
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Bear in mind, Xfce is the only widely-used DE that is still basing on GTK2.
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Until... 4.14?
[19:37] <OvenWerks> hm, I thought some of xfce (or it's bits) were already gtk3
[19:37] <OvenWerks> (shows what I know)
[19:39] <captain-tux_> Okay, so NumixBlue is indeed the standard theme right now and it does have those 1px edges/corners... however, so do the others I've tried out right now, could this be a wm issue maybe?
[19:39] <OvenWerks> moheli works and has bigger handles
[19:39] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux_: I believe it could be the WM. Now that I think about it, I have had trouble grabbing window sides/corners in Xfce.
[19:40] <eylul> the fun part of XFCE window decorations (and I can elaborate more on this on ML) is that it is not possible to create transparent areas that you can crab
[19:40] <eylul> so you either end up with borders on side, visible ones, or well..
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. That's problematic.
[19:41] <eylul> I did have some partial solution to that that worked for me (columns of line with space in between) which is better but not THAT better
[19:41] <captain-tux_> Do Xubuntu people have problems with this?
[19:41] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux_: That I couldn't tell you.
[19:41] <eylul> crab -> grab
[19:42] <OvenWerks> There ahs been quite a lot of talk about changing DE (for 1810 i assume) so theme would come after.
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, I know in the ML I proposed a switch to MATE, but I feel as though an option to install an UbuStu themed MATE would be a better solution rather than a complete replacement, as to not break workflow.
[19:42] <OvenWerks> xubuntu is more and more designed as a "one application, full screen" flavour
[19:43] <eylul> ah.. that explains. XFCE is far from gone. I know gamers still prefer it for its low footprint.. but and as for switch
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> The advantage MATE would have is the extreme flexibility but not at the cost of having too many options.
[19:43] <OvenWerks> xubuntu used to come with two workspaces, but no longer does. (we seem to have inherited this too)
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> It'd be like being back on Gnome 2 but with a ton of improvements.
[19:44] <eylul> last I used mate
[19:44] <eylul> I did find it a bit restrictive
[19:44] <eylul> but then again that was a while ago
[19:45] <eylul> and it is very actively developed
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. I'd recommend trying out UbuMATE, just to see its capabilities. I think there's a lot of projects there (the Welcome app, for instance) that could be adapted for our use.
[19:45] <eylul> I love the welcome app / software center
[19:45] <OvenWerks> so perhaps after 1804 is out we should all download each flavour, add studio metas and see how it feels for a week
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Martin has done an amazing job.
[19:45] <eylul> I can give feedback on KDE
[19:45] <eylul> have been using it for a while now but yeah I should try the other flavors again
[19:46] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I've used Plasma extensively (remember, KDE is the organization/community, not the DE anymore).
[19:46] <eylul> ah
[19:46] <pmd11> i have earlier tried ubuntu mate and installed ubuntu studio meta data. I felt it is nice to me. but i am using ubuntu studio for video editing and not audio
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> I'm also friends with Valorie Zimmerman (she lives in my home town) of the Kubuntu council.
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> I just used UbuStu with MATE installed on top just this past tuesday for live audio, and it was quite effective.
[19:48] <OvenWerks> kde/plasma has a known problem with multiwindow applications like gimp and ardour
[19:48] <eylul> I like Plasma's activity option, and it really REALLY has good tools for visual artists. (that's what I am btw ;) ) but it does still crash from time to time, and feels heavy compared to XFCE. 
[19:48] <eylul> what is it?
[19:48] <OvenWerks> I personally also find kde's audio manager a pain as well
[19:48] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I have seen that, and I believe there are ways to overcome those (changing the taskbar widget, etc.).
[19:48] <pmd11> plasma is very flexible but resource hungry
[19:49] <eylul> that latter is an issue I notice both when working with large photographs and gaming
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> pmd11: That's no longer true as of 5.12. They did a lot of cleanup this past cycle.
[19:49] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: as an Ardour developer it seem any workaround has to be on the application side and the workarounds cause other troubles.
[19:49] <eylul> pmd11 how is mate with video work, or other resource demanding work?
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: About the same amount of resources as Xfce.
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Understood. I just never had a problem when I used Plasma 5.11 or 5.12 when using Ardour.
[19:52] <OvenWerks> Anyway, the best thing like I said is to try them all. I don't expect that to change anyone's fav, but notes on how the DE interferes with or aids in different workflows would be good
[19:52] <eylul> *nods*
[19:52] <pmd11> mate looks very good to me. 
[19:53] <eylul> we also have people who do work with different mediums
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> This is why I think we should give the option. Since we're not based on a DE like other flavors, we have that kind of flexibility.
[19:53] <OvenWerks> Also notes on how simple changes in setting can fix that
[19:54] <ErichEickmeyer> So, what should we say? Change in DE being considered for 18.10 or DE Choice being considered for 18.10?
[19:54] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, that's not a committment to proceed.
[19:54] <eylul> I assume it would be more like 18.10 discussion period
[19:54] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: that would mean creating a ubuntustudio-<flavour> package for each de I think.
[19:55] <eylul> but DE issue being finalized in later stages? unless we get more development help?
[19:55] <OvenWerks> I think we are looking at both being able to choose as well as what default
[19:55] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, that's correct, and as soon as I get packagning figured out, a project I'm willing to undertake.
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, sounds good. I think we can wrangle-in the help as, believe it or not, big changes or features get attention, and therefore get interest/attract help.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> In some ways it would be really nice if Studio's default was the same a vanilla's
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, but then it becomes a branding issue.
[19:57] <OvenWerks> #ubuntu has way more people to help users with DE stuff
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: As do the DE-based flavors.
[19:57] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: we would still choose our own theme/backdrop
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Glad we're on the same page. :)
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Yeah, I think the DE issue should be finalized as we get closer to the beginning of the 18.10 release cycle, since that would give time to attract help.
[19:58] <OvenWerks> I think KDE is the only flavour that our menu "jsut works" with too
[19:59] <eylul> haha that IS true
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> So, I know it's a little resource hungery, but would we want to consider Gnome Shell as well?
[19:59] <eylul> *makes a face*
[19:59] <OvenWerks> All of them need to be looked at
[20:00] <eylul> honestly if we changed the default I'd much rather see mate than gnome shell
[20:00] <OvenWerks> It looks like we will be loosing 32 bit in the long run.
[20:00] <eylul> but 
[20:00] <eylul> yeah we should look at all options
[20:01] <OvenWerks> If we are offering DE choice we pretty much have to.
[20:01] <ErichEickmeyer> That's true.
[20:02] <eylul> one thing I would like to know is 
[20:02] <ErichEickmeyer> So, here's what I've got so far: "-controls to be updated to include new features for 18.10", "Looking into updating and/or adding wallpapers for 18.04", and "Change in default DE and/or adding option of DE being considered for 18.10"
[20:02] <eylul> if we could get the welcome/software center of mate
[20:03] <eylul> or a variation of it into being a feature for ubuntustudio and how much work that would take
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: I belive that would be relatively easy, especially considering having our metapackages as installation options there would be a huge boon.
[20:03] <OvenWerks> Does the sofware center of mate show what software will be removed to install new software?
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Easy and worthwhile, I should say
[20:03] <eylul> it is a very nice tool for beginners the way it curates the software, and could be a fantastic way to introduce people to the software available for art and highlight that. (set will start laughing at me about now) :D
[20:04] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes.
[20:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Martin has done a very comprehensive job with the Welcome center on MATE.
[20:04] <OvenWerks> does it also passthrough selections that the install scritp makes?
[20:04] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes. 
[20:05] <OvenWerks> for example jackd install asks if the user want realtime permitions.
[20:05] <ErichEickmeyer> For instance, you can even install Google Chrome with one click from that welcome app.
[20:05] <OvenWerks> If so that would be the my software GUI of choice
[20:05] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: That can be included as an option in the boutique. Wouldn't be hard to implement, afaik.
[20:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Of course, I'm no programmer, but I know a guy. :)
[20:06] <OvenWerks> Right now, I still install synaptic and use apt rather a lot
[20:06] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Absolutely, and that option would still be there for more "advanced" users such as yourself.
[20:06] <OvenWerks> The problem with install apps has been that the GUI runs as user and the install as system
[20:07] <eylul> boutique is not a replacement for apt and synaptic. it doesn't have all the software, but it is more like a curated subset of stuff that is well maintained 
[20:07] <ErichEickmeyer> ^That, yes.
[20:07] <eylul> in terms of install scripts and explanations of what it does. some is from 3rd party repos, some from ubuntu repos which makes stuff that is essential for most users
[20:07] <eylul> but hard to do (e.g. install flash) easy
[20:07] <ErichEickmeyer> It even has Google Chrome as an install option, removing the chrome.google.com website from the equation.
[20:08] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, it would be an ideal way to get people up-and-running on a fresh install without too much hassle.
[20:09] <eylul> *nods*
[20:10] <OvenWerks> It would be ideal to add applications opted out of at iso install time as well applications related to Studio but not included.
[20:10] <ErichEickmeyer> So, to what I wrote above, added "Adaptation of Ubuntu MATE welcome app for Ubuntu Studio being considered for 18.10"
[20:10] <OvenWerks> +1
[20:10] <ErichEickmeyer> So, in essence, it could replace the UbuntuStudio Metapackage Installer app.
[20:10] <eylul> Ovenwerks: a very good software center that is curated, can also mean we can stop this cycle of add all software as default, we put ourselves in XD
[20:11] <eylul> +1 to the item
[20:11] <ErichEickmeyer> It would allow people to customize Ubuntu Studio to their particular use case.
[20:11] <OvenWerks> The ubuntustudio-installer is old and well ready to retire... I wrote it I should know...
[20:12] <eylul> wow
[20:12] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: LOL
[20:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, probably time. XD
[20:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, definitely something we should work on for 18.10
[20:13] <OvenWerks> It tryied to be a script that ran on stuff that every flavour had.
[20:13] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: It was very effective, in my opinion. I enjoyed the use I got out of it.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> It uses zenity
[20:14] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Could you get a list of new features being added to -controls?
[20:14] <ErichEickmeyer> I can't remember off the top of my head.
[20:15] <OvenWerks> The current -controls fixes rt permisions and makes sure the user is in the audio group... thats it.
[20:15] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[20:16] <ErichEickmeyer> Hotplugged USB interfaces specifically, correct?
[20:17] <OvenWerks> the new one adds: set cpu governor, turn on/off Intel Boost, choose audio device, run jack from session start (or not) hotplugging USB mics selecting a non-standard set of outputs for pulse-jack bridging
[20:18] <OvenWerks> Using more than one audio device even if internal, bridging ALSA midi to jack midi
[20:18] <ErichEickmeyer> Wow. That's a lot! You've been busy!
[20:18] <OvenWerks> a "Safely Remove USB Audio Device button
[20:19] <captain-tux_> Yes, all very important for audio work, nice.
[20:19] <ErichEickmeyer> This is brilliant.
[20:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, do you think that covers everything until next meeting?
[20:20] <OvenWerks> The idea was to include tabs for video use or graphics setups as well
[20:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[20:20] <OvenWerks> Yup, everyone who can should dl todays ISO and test the install fix.
[20:21] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. I'll get that last one out on Twitter.
[20:21] <eylul> there is one thing left to cover
[20:21] <captain-tux_> I actually have another point on my list.
[20:21] <eylul> captain-tux_: you first
[20:22] <captain-tux_> Okay, I've had a look at the website and wiki this week and I think it could use some improvements (content) for 18.04. Is there someone in charge of that currently? The team page seems to be outdated.
[20:22] <eylul> oh goodness
[20:22] <eylul> ok so the website
[20:22] <eylul> one sec
[20:23] <OvenWerks> At least that does not have a deadline...
[20:23] <ErichEickmeyer> I have access to edit the website if anyone else has access to the Wiki.
[20:23] <OvenWerks> but at least a DL link would be good when release happens
[20:23] <eylul> https://ubuntustudio.azbulutlu.org/
[20:23] <eylul> we have been working a new version
[20:23] <eylul> of the website
[20:24] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: That's absolutely gorgeous. Is there any way to get that implemented once 18.04 releases? I assume that's a retheme.
[20:24] <eylul> things kind of fell apart due to a communication issue with the ubuntu information services side
[20:24] <eylul> yeah we were trying to get the theme up
[20:24] <eylul> the ticket fell through the cracks (partly due to us partly due to well.. lack of answer)
[20:25] <eylul> the main issue is I am not sure *I* am allowed to put a new ticket in about this
[20:25] <eylul> or anyone except set (sakrecoer)
[20:25] <eylul> because officially he is still the lead
[20:25] <eylul> and we never officiated the council
[20:25] <eylul> :D
[20:26] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. Probably something worth putting in the ML so he can see it and respond in his own time.
[20:26] <eylul> *nods*
[20:26] <eylul> but yeah this has been in the works for... well
[20:26] <eylul> basically since I joined... 2 years ago? XD
[20:26] <eylul> *is a bit frustrated about this*
[20:26] <eylul> :)
[20:26] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, let's get it pushed. This needs to be a thing.
[20:27] <eylul> *nods*
[20:27] <ErichEickmeyer> I was just thinking the existing site could use a refresh, and this would be absolutely perfect.
[20:27] <eylul> I think the images there will change slightly
[20:27] <OvenWerks> that would certianly give a look of life around here
[20:27] <ErichEickmeyer> hehe, referring to earlier parts of the conversation, just noticed that Wimpress is in the room. XD
[20:28] <eylul> as were having issue getting license from the person making them, but we have other ones
[20:28] <eylul> ... somewhere
[20:28] <eylul> *nods*
[20:28] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. Sounds like we're cleaning up some of the mess caused by months of neglect. This is good.
[20:29] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, my time is getting limited. captain-tux_, thanks for pointing out the website and wiki. eylul, did you have one more thing?
[20:30] <eylul> oh I was going to say. we need to figure out WHEN is the next meeting :)
[20:30] <eylul> before we wrap up
[20:30] <ErichEickmeyer> Same time next week?
[20:30] <OvenWerks> eylul: is this still valid: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website
[20:30] <eylul> I.. don't think so?
[20:30] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I was just added to that team by sakrecoer, so yes.
[20:31] <eylul> or maybe hang on..
[20:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh wait... that's the code. nm.
[20:31] <OvenWerks> I will try to be available next week. Family comes first of course.
[20:31] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Same.
[20:31] <ErichEickmeyer> So, same time next week?
[20:31] <eylul> yeah this is the one
[20:31] <captain-tux_> Time works for me, but I could also be here earlier, if you like.
[20:31] <eylul> assets part is where some of the image files are
[20:32] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. I'll get the items discussed today on the ML and the website, and tweet the need for new Daily ISO testers.
[20:32] <ErichEickmeyer> Maybe even a FB post.
[20:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Anything else?
[20:33] <eylul> not from me. will be here next week at least
[20:33] <OvenWerks> Glad to see some chatter here
[20:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. Shall we officially adjourn this meeting?
[20:34] <OvenWerks> yup
[20:34] <captain-tux_> Yes
[20:34] <eylul> *nods*
[20:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, cool. Meeting adjourned. I'll be hanging out here, but I've got to head to work in about an hour. I'll try to get the notes posted and other PR stuff taken care of. Great meeting everyone!
[20:35] <captain-tux_> Yes, thanks everyone!
[20:35] <eylul> same here. thanks captain-tux_ for organizing the meeting, and nice to see things active again :)
[20:37] <captain-tux_> :)
[20:38] <captain-tux_> OvenWerks, can you eli5 how to test controls, if needed or would that be more work than finishing the development? :P
[20:43] <captain-tux_> I've got some USB interfaces/amps and microphones laying around here for multiple inputs/outputs, etc.
[20:54] <OvenWerks> captain-tux_: install log out and back in play.
[20:54] <OvenWerks> Use qjackctl's connections screen to look at things
[20:55] <OvenWerks> Don't expect more than one USB device to work at the same time just now.
[20:55] <OvenWerks> (unless one of them is plugged in before login and stays there til logout
[20:57] <metalbiker> i think i missed the meeting, didn't i? sigh
[20:58] <metalbiker> i've got a hardware question and i want to make sure this is the correct channel to be in for that. 
[20:58] <OvenWerks> it ended about 30min ago.
[20:58] <OvenWerks> never know till it gets asked...
[20:59] <metalbiker> aww man! well, i was busy around that time anyway but maybe next time i will. 
[20:59] <OvenWerks> next week.
[21:00] <metalbiker> the hardware i want to use is an m-audio delta 1010lt PCI card with breakout cables to connect my guitar/amp/microphone to the OS. is there a current list of supported hardware that i can view? if not, i think that's a very good thing to construct.
[21:01] <OvenWerks> That card will work
[21:01] <OvenWerks> I have a delta66
[21:01] <metalbiker> cool!! awesome!
[21:01] <OvenWerks> they all use the ice1712 chip
[21:02] <metalbiker> oh awesome! i remember that one as well but i like the 1010 since it's got xlr connectors for microphones.
[21:02] <OvenWerks> to set it up use mudita24
[21:02] <metalbiker> what's mudita24?
[21:02] <OvenWerks> That a control application specific to that chip
[21:03] <OvenWerks> in particular the analog volume tab needs to have all your levels set to -6 or so for the outputs and 0 or so for the ADCs
[21:03] <metalbiker> oh ok. another question about this. once i get ubuntu studio installed and get that card installed in my tower, will the OS automatically download and install the needed drivers?
[21:04] <OvenWerks> (otherwise you will see the card but have no sound
[21:04] <OvenWerks> The drivers are included
[21:05] <metalbiker> ok, cool. and have all of the analog levels at -6 and zero for the ADCs. got it.
[21:06] <metalbiker> is it recommended to have a high end graphics card for the system or just something decent? i'm not going to be gaming on it, just music work.
[21:06] <OvenWerks> The internal Intel card is probaly the best
[21:06] <OvenWerks> the intel drivers are open and so up to date
[21:07] <metalbiker> ok. i do believe that's what it's got. i've got the dell precision t1600 workstation and i do believe the specs say it's got intel integrated graphics.
[21:08] <OvenWerks> not great for gaming, but known not to get in the way of Audio stuff
[21:09] <metalbiker> ok, sounds good. no worries about gaming. i'll build another rig for it or just get a console for that. lol 
[21:09] <OvenWerks> same here
[21:09] <metalbiker> and i don't want anything to get in the way
[21:11] <metalbiker> man, you've been a big help with this. and what about audio to speakers? will the delta 1010 handle that as well? i think it's got RCA outputs or something. i don't have the specs in front of me at the moment.
[21:11] <metalbiker> i want to use a really good set of speakers for playback for mixing/etc.
[21:25] <OvenWerks> you need an amp to go to speakers
[21:26] <OvenWerks> unless they have amplifiers in them
[21:27] <OvenWerks> The RCA out are fine so long as the wire runs are short, less than 30 or 40 feet
[21:29] <metalbiker> ok, cool. i'll have to check the speakers i'm wanting to see if there's an amp or not. 
[21:29] <OvenWerks> My general advice is to spend as much as you can on speakers (listen to them sometimes cheaper sounds better) and then buy a $30 stereo amp from the used stuff store (value village or salvation Army)
[21:30] <metalbiker> and the distance won't be a problem. i'll have them on nearby.
[21:31] <OvenWerks> eylul: installing the latest iso, the application chooser now shows up. Checking to see if the publishing apps ar missing after install.
[21:31] <metalbiker> yeah, i planned on spending whatever it costs to get good sounding speakers. you mean the amps that go in auto audio speakers>
[21:32] <OvenWerks> no I mean living room stereo amps (sme times call receivers)
[21:33] <OvenWerks> The one upstairs is a Fisher and the one here is a Technics. Both were $30
[21:34] <OvenWerks> I can't afford speakers that will show the difference between these and expensive amplifier.
[21:35] <OvenWerks> If I was spending $3k plus per speaker, I might think differently
[21:38] <OvenWerks> eylul: install just removed the publishing stuff (that I unchecked) so we can call that bug fixed... I will mark it so.
[21:40] <metalbiker> ohhhh....ok!! lol should've known
[21:43] <OvenWerks> eylul: not sure why I am telling you this krytarik made the change...
[21:44] <OvenWerks> krytarik: chaneg to seeds has been tested and works ok. Did install without publishing successfully.
[21:44] <krytarik> Ok, cool - thanks.
[21:50] <OvenWerks> krytarik: status on the bug changed to Fix Released
[21:50] <krytarik> Great, thanks.
[21:55] <krytarik> And I've still got LP #1703116 in my inbox, but we've got no uploader still either, soo..