[00:18] <GridCube> reporting that upgrading on desktop from lts 16.04 worked correctly
[00:18] <GridCube> i got some warnings of smbd failing at boot but nothing else seems wrong
[05:24] <flocculant> ali1234: while I'm quite likely to believe what you say - and did so re fontconfig, I do like to see the proof of the pudding ... just rebuilt our iso and booted it in vm - back to normal times there (and on first boot post-install)
[05:24] <flocculant> thanks :)
[05:32] <flocculant> also I noticed that the remove media message cam up quicker
[05:32] <flocculant> s/cam/came
[08:05] <Unit193> So I should rebuild Core?
[08:10] <flocculant> Unit193: well - not sure what state that was in tbh
[08:29] <Unit193> 'Tis fine.
[10:47] <flocculant> do we actually have an xfce package dealing multimedia keys?
[10:47] <flocculant> if anyone else is awake :p
[10:48] <Unit193> xfce4-volumed was the old one, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin new.
[10:48] <flocculant> Unit193: ta
[10:48] <flocculant> got someone in #u+1 with them now not working - but also installed plasma desktop recently 
[11:04] <vabi> Hello, I've read You need some 18.04 testers. How can I help?
[11:05] <flocculant> vabi: hi
[11:06] <flocculant> depends, a few ways you can help
[11:06] <flocculant> 1 - test the daily with usb's
[11:06] <flocculant> 2 - test with a vm
[11:06] <flocculant> 3 - dual boot 18.04 with what you use now
[11:07] <flocculant> 4 - bravely run 18.04 as your main os 
[11:08] <vabi> 4 is really tempting :D I have old c2d laptop I use daily.
[11:08] <flocculant> vabi: this is the log from a session I ran a while back that might help too https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/05/12/%23xubuntu-devel.html
[11:08] <flocculant> vabi: that would be awesome - especially testing suspend and power management on it
[11:09] <vabi> Ok, I'll do that this weekend. If I use test 18.04 build will it be able to update it to normal 18.04 release later?
[11:09] <flocculant> vabi: yep - keep it updated 
[11:10] <vabi> Nice, i'll read that log then, and install nightly.
[11:11] <flocculant> vabi - excellent - keep us posted
[11:51] <flocculant> willem: re testing and information for new people. We currently have https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa and https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
[11:51] <flocculant> is one too little and the other too much?
[11:52] <flocculant> if so I'm thinking we might want something else - and if that was the case - would you help get that written?
[12:55] <willem> flocculant, Thank you for asking me. :-) I'll have look later and will be happy to help. Must dash.
[13:05] <flocculant> ochosi: can you remember if this was fixed? https://streamable.com/sqjbt
[13:05] <flocculant> I thought it was
[13:31] <leigh> Hi, I have installed 18.04 and am using it (posted on users mailing list) I need help to learn how I can help please
[13:32] <flocculant> leigh: hi - glad to see you :)
[13:33] <leigh> Thanks
[13:33] <flocculant> two people coming by in one day \o/
[13:34] <leigh> Its the start of a trend perhaps
[13:34] <leigh> Like I said, I really need a dummies guide to testing, or even to know what someone like me can actually do
[13:34] <flocculant> that would be absolutely brilliant ;)
[13:35] <flocculant> currently we're in between the final beta release and the release candidate stage so effectively what you can do is use 18.04 - you've got it installed
[13:36] <flocculant> then raise issues as you see them - might be bugs, might not be, might even be something we can't fix ourselves
[13:36] <leigh> yup and more or less using it as my main now (although 16.04 is also installed
[13:36] <leigh> Do I raise issues as per here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Reporting_non-crash_hardware_and_desktop_application_bugs
[13:36] <leigh> ?
[13:37] <flocculant> that would be good 
[13:37] <flocculant> for anything that we have control over - we get mails from lp
[13:38] <flocculant> leigh: if you're willing to be another guinea pig for me that would help us and also likely people not sure if they can help test
[13:39] <leigh> ok. A couple of times I have has something go wrong, then I press alt F2 and ubuntu-bug and put in app
[13:39] <leigh> then I get to see if its an existing bug or put in a new one
[13:39] <flocculant> yea - or you can open a terminal and do the same thing
[13:39] <flocculant> and yea that's effectively it 
[13:40] <leigh> My problem is most of the language I see in the current bugs makes no sense to me so I'm not sure if I should open new bug or not
[13:40] <leigh> so I bail out
[13:40] <leigh> chicken!
[13:40] <flocculant> ha :)
[13:40] <flocculant> well - I would rather see a duplicate - I can link them together - than no report at all :)
[13:40] <leigh> so best to just open a new bug if I'm not sure?
[13:41] <flocculant> yea 
[13:41] <leigh> ok
[13:41] <flocculant> quick point
[13:42] <flocculant> in the dialogue that opos up shortly after you run ubuntu-bug - if you page down through the stuff you're not sure of - when it is a duplicate you will see it written there
[13:42] <leigh> also, sometimes I have no idea what the responsible app was (if its a general 'something went wrong')
[13:42] <leigh> OK, thanks
[13:43] <flocculant> leigh: right - well in those cases it should give you a 'this <package> crashed - do you want to report it' dialogue (iirc)
[13:43] <leigh> Ok
[13:43] <flocculant> we do have some docs - and tbh I'm not too sure if they are at the right level for new people
[13:43] <leigh> I will go ahead and be less of a wimp and learn as I go then
[13:44] <flocculant> if you've got some time over the next few days to look at them and let me know - that would be invaluable for me
[13:44] <flocculant> and just to make 1 point - you don't need to be able to code to help us here 
[13:44] <leigh> To be honest most of what I have read is not very easy for newcomers, and that includes all Linux :)
[13:45] <leigh> Yup, I have gathered that
[13:45] <flocculant> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
[13:45] <flocculant> have you seen that?
[13:45] <flocculant> if so then you've answered my question :D
[13:46] <leigh> I think the main prob is that it is assumed that everyone already understands the basic way in which community contributions work. But I need to read through properly first.
[13:46] <flocculant> right
[13:47] <flocculant> if you can find a bit fo time to read it - that'd be great - if you want you can e-mail me (you've seen mail from me on the list) 
[13:48] <leigh> OK, I'll read through and see if I can make any suggestions
[13:48] <flocculant> I'm beginning to think that we need something between that ^^ and https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
[13:49] <flocculant> I'm wandering off for a bit - actually got some niceish weather here atm 
[13:50] <leigh> peeing down in Lisboa :)
[13:50] <flocculant> :)
[13:51] <leigh> Just a last point - how do you get to those links on the webpage (where in menus)as I havent seen them I dont think
[13:51] <flocculant> that last link is in Development drop down through Get Involved
[13:52] <flocculant> the long winded contributor docs is linked at the Dev Area
[13:53] <flocculant> leigh: you live in Lisbon?
[13:54] <leigh> Yup, have done on and off since '96
[13:54] <leigh> but I'm an N Essex / Suffolk boy at heart
[13:54] <flocculant> one of the Xubuntu team, slickymaster, lives in Portugal, Porto I think
[13:55] <flocculant> leigh: between Southampton and Bournemouth me - getting close to offtopic now :p
[13:55] <leigh> sorry. not used to this
[13:55] <leigh> and I talk too much
[13:55] <leigh> Porto is quite a way north
[13:56] <flocculant> ha ha - no problem 
[13:56] <leigh> I will look at stuff and try to make suggestions
[13:56] <flocculant> anyway - great to see you in here - but must dash while it's dry out :)
[13:56] <flocculant> see you again I hope :)
[13:56] <leigh> have fun
[14:55] <willem> Hi, leigh, I'm new to the Xubuntu community as well, and am trying to contribute by testing.
[14:56] <willem> Perhaps we could share the "stumble-blocks" for new comers like us, and then use that to make some changes to 
[14:56] <willem> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
[14:56] <willem> and https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
[14:57] <willem> so that other new comers may feel less overwhelmed? 
[15:06] <leigh1> Hi Willem, that would be a good idea. Currently I am trying to work out how to use IRC  with Pidgin :)
[15:07] <leigh1> I think what Flocculant said is correct - there is a big gulf between those two pages above
[15:07] <willem> Ah, well, I cant help you with pidgin, but the people here suggested I use hexchat. That's what I've been using since
[15:10] <leigh> I will work it out - nearly there. Then I'll read a bit more and get back with some suggestions
[15:14] <willem> Perhaps we can figure out which terms in those pages need explaining, or what knowledge the authors assumed the readers have but which we in fact do/did not have...
[15:15] <willem> (BTW: English is not my own language, so please tell me if I am unclear or even incomprehensible...:-)
[15:20] <leigh> Sounds like a good plan. Or even a preceding page summarizing simply the documentation pages? Your English is excellent. I have lived in Germany and now live in Portugal, so I know all about not speaking in my mother language, don't worry!
[15:20] <willem> Thanks. I speak German as well if you like ;-)
[15:24] <willem> I was also thinking about something "preceding" as you suggest. What I was thinking was that a flow chart of sorts might be helpful? Asking basic yes-no-questions to the reader to decide how he/she might be able to help according to how much time/knowledge/experience/hardware they have?
[15:25] <willem> And from there to branch of to the more detailed information?
[15:25] <willem> Well, just some wild ideas--- :-)
[15:26] <willem> (nice to meet you btw :-)
[15:29] <flocculant> hi willem - I see you've met leigh :)
[15:29] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ the last hourish 
[15:30] <flocculant> I was tentatively thinking while out that what might be a useful thing from my point of view would be the things people find hardest - then we can work from that point
[15:31] <flocculant> what I would ideally like to have is a resource to point people at early in the next cycle (May)
[15:33] <flocculant> toddles of again
[15:33] <willem> flocculant, I have. I think someone should tell hi about IRC-bouncers, don't you think?
[15:34]  * willem needs to go and find the kitchen to make some food for the family. biab.
[15:57] <leigh> gibt's shon 10 jahre seit ich Deutch gesprochen habe! There, now you can have no worries about your English :) 
[16:02] <leigh> I am in academia, writing papers for scientific journals. I would naturally approach it in the same way - perhaps first agree on a skeleton structure before filling in the details? My problem is that at the moment I don't really know much about the subject matter - I have to do some reading first then I can make some suggestions. Great to meet you too!
[16:33] <GridCube> after the dist-upgrade im having a visual bug on firefox, all the menus look different from the menus on other applications and the cursor doesnt highlight the option being hovered https://imgur.com/a/DHJbs
[16:34] <willem> leigh1, well, you start reading then ;-) I'll do the same. Auch für mich gilt das ich mehr als zwanzig Jahre eigentlich kein richtiges Deutsch gesprochen habe. Wir sprechen lieber English... :-)
[16:39] <GridCube> also this looks weird https://i.imgur.com/LUeOlE9.png all buttons and toggles are invisible
[16:46] <GridCube> Changing the theme seems to fix the problem so I'm assuming the problem is with greybird https://i.imgur.com/Ue72jd0.png
[17:13] <GridCube> bug #1762026
[17:15] <Leigh_on_sea> I had a problem with IRC that I think was because leigh was already registered, now I have changed to this one, and will stick with it.
[17:17] <Leigh_on_sea> Actually my computer just turned completely off as I was writing here. I roughly know what apps were also open at the time (Grsync, lollipop and Firefox) but don't know which if any was responsible. how do I report that?
[17:19] <GridCube> no idea
[18:05] <willem> Leigh_on_sea, in cases like that I have sometimes found some information in log files. But log files tend to be very technical.
[18:06] <willem> But I'm no expert, really
[18:07] <ali1234> ochosi: i made a tool to quickly review icon changes: https://github.com/ali1234/icondiff
[18:38] <flocculant> bluesabre: fixed my no network post suspend btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1760073/comments/28
[18:58] <ochosi> GridCube: if you used gtk-theme-config before then yes, the upgrade will mean breakage. you have to reset the theme via gtk-theme-config to fix it
[18:59] <ochosi> in general there is no such bug in greybird itself
[18:59] <ochosi> flocculant: not sure if that was ever fixed or even is fixable
[19:01] <GridCube> ochosi, sorry I don't understand, i don't think i've ever edited gtk-theme-config
[19:01] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - must have misunderstood and I suspect I don't notice as panel on bottom
[19:02] <ochosi> ali1234: that looks awesome (only could take a look at the code so far) - will test when i'm home!
[19:02] <ochosi> GridCube: i thought i saw gtk-theme-config in one of your screenshots
[19:03] <GridCube> yes as an example of how the theme is broken
[19:03] <GridCube> i didn't touch anything on it
[19:03] <ochosi> k, sry, that was a misunderstanding then
[19:03] <GridCube> :)
[19:03] <ochosi> not sure how an upgrade would break the theme like that
[19:03] <ochosi> could you apt reinstall it?
[19:03] <GridCube> i don't know
[19:03] <GridCube> sure
[19:04] <ochosi> or check if you have something in your home folder
[19:04] <ochosi> like .themes
[19:04] <ochosi> that would also override/break the theme
[19:05] <ochosi> flocculant: just looks like some signal mess with hover, maybe its fixed with the gtk3 panel already
[19:05] <GridCube> i tried to locate .themes and i don't have any folder by that name
[19:06] <ochosi> theres also another in .local/share/themes i think
[19:06] <flocculant> ochosi: could be - never had luck with gtk3 panel and it's too late to start now :p
[19:06] <ochosi> last resort would be to use the guest acxount for testing
[19:06] <ochosi> flocculant: rly? it should work the same (and even better in some respects)
[19:07] <flocculant> I had issues intalling it if I remember correctly 
[19:07] <ochosi> hmright
[19:07] <flocculant> but no biggy this close to release anyway :)
[19:07] <ochosi> yeah you need some autogen options to get the paths right
[19:08] <ochosi> we should package it anyway
[19:08] <flocculant> I think that sounds about right
[19:08] <GridCube> reinstalling greybird-gtk-theme did nothing
[19:08] <flocculant> ochosi: beginning of May I'll be thinking about ppa's again so will talk then 
[19:09] <ochosi> sure sure
[19:09] <ochosi> no rush
[19:09] <flocculant> :)
[19:09] <flocculant> anyway off now - dad taxi
[19:09] <flocculant> the future for ochosi :p
[19:09] <ochosi> hehe
[19:09] <ochosi> very true
[19:10] <ochosi> off now too
[19:10] <ochosi> hf
[19:10] <flocculant> also - new blood turned up today for testing \o/
[19:10] <flocculant> 2 new bloods
[19:58] <TJ-> Has anyone noticed that on resume from suspend input focus doesn't return to the application with focus? On 3 PCs here I have to minimize/restore to cure it
[19:58] <flocculant> TJ-: let me test that here 
[20:00] <TJ-> I first noticed typing wasn't being accepted into the terminal (which had focus when suspended). Clicked with the mouse inside the terminal window but it didn't get focus. Had to minimise/restore. Noticed this also affects the taskbar/whisker icon sometimes unless I do Ctrl+Esc
[20:02] <flocculant> TJ-: can confirm that in a terminal
[20:02] <flocculant> firefox worked - sort of
[20:03] <flocculant> bluesabre: false alarm on the fixed net after suspend :(
[20:03] <flocculant> though why something would work once then not ...
[20:04] <GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/mksbBw4.png
[20:04] <GridCube> did an update/upgrade and reboot
[20:04] <flocculant> yea read the backlog
[20:04] <GridCube> and now the firefox and other menus show correctly, but the buttons here are huuuge
[20:05] <flocculant> TJ-: ctrl+esc is the default whisker shortcut
[20:06] <TJ-> right, that's the only way to get to it though, mouse click wouldn't open the menu immediately after resume
[20:07] <TJ-> I've also seen 2 instances where there was no mouse pointer movement; something is capturing input focus and not releasing it. I suspect light-locker once again, because it does grab those on lock/suspend
[20:10] <flocculant> TJ-: have you tried the obvious here? purge light-locker (possibly install xscreensaver) and see then?
[20:10] <flocculant> light-locker gives us trouble quite frequently as does lightdm
[20:11] <flocculant> especially, it seems, just before lts release date ...
[20:11] <TJ-> Disabling it seems to cure most issues, but this one is so random I don't know if light-locker being disabled will avoid it. 
[20:12] <flocculant> mmm - random doesn't help of course
[20:12] <TJ-> Can't remove light-locker since this is happening whilst I'm debugging the lid-close suspend light-locker
[20:12] <TJ-> I think I'm seeing it because I'm doing so many suspend/resume cycles
[20:12] <flocculant> :)
[20:13] <flocculant> I know if I'm a bit quick when testing that I end up with 2 password requests
[20:14] <TJ-> I've not had that so far
[20:15] <flocculant> I could replicate it till the cows come home pretty much
[20:15] <flocculant> willem: I forgot I made this https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/isotesting
[20:16] <TJ-> do the /var/log/lightdm/*.log files show it happening (the greeter logs maybe)? does it show up as 2 authentications in /var/log/auth.log ?
[20:16] <flocculant> willem: also the irc log from the new testers session I ran is on the wiki - which could well be a simple start to what we were talking about
[20:16] <flocculant> TJ-: not sure tbh
[20:25] <flocculant> well this is bizarre copy/paste not working
[20:28] <flocculant> TJ-: appears to be 2 authentications for wolf here, this should be all of lightdm.log post suspend https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dDdRKcvJHk/
[20:33] <TJ-> I wonder if there is anything in $HOME/.xsession-errors that correlates with the time period [+1083.15s] ->  [+1087.47s]
[20:34] <TJ-> looks like spends 4 seconds doing something before starting another greeter
[20:36] <flocculant> nothing that isn't normally in there
[22:06] <bluesabre> GridCube: it's because of the way gtk-theme-config has it's layout configured... and btw, that has been dropped for bionic (from the seed and the archive)
[23:21] <Leigh_on_sea> The Nextcloud desktop client Appimage won't start at startup, nor manually executing the file.  If I execute it repeatedly (i.e. double click it repeatedly) it eventually does start but has forgot my account password, asking for it and saying - Reading from keychain failed with error: 'No keychain service available'. Once its running, no problems.