[14:14] <eylul> OvenWerks: are you here by any chance?
[14:14] <OvenWerks> Aye
[14:15] <OvenWerks> just walked in
[14:15] <eylul> perfect. ok so for the 2 screen setup do you need one 2-screen wallpaper :)
[14:15] <eylul> or 2 separate ones
[14:15] <eylul> I created 2 separate ones now I am suddenly unsure :D
[14:15] <OvenWerks> No, I can have either a really long skinny one or two normal ones.
[14:15] <eylul> ok I am going to go with 2 normal ones
[14:16] <eylul> because that also allows people who put their screens differently to use them
[14:16] <OvenWerks> The left and right can be set separately
[14:16] <eylul> I just wasn't sure if there was a clear advantage to having one over another
[14:16] <eylul> yeah that's what I do, but I haven't used xfce in a while
[14:16] <eylul> :)
[14:16] <OvenWerks> Having two allows other than side by side. some people are top and bottom.
[14:17] <eylul> <--- uses top and bottom
[14:17] <OvenWerks> (not sure if they use top as main or bottom as main)
[14:17] <eylul> (also different resolution screens. one is a cintiq)
[14:17] <eylul> I use top as main, bottom as drawing area
[14:17] <OvenWerks> That is common in graphics, old one for tools and good new one for drawing
[14:18] <eylul> yup
[14:18] <eylul> it has to do with how you place drawing screens too
[14:18] <eylul> but I assume still majority of people do 2 screens side by side
[14:19] <eylul> either way, ok 2 separate items it is. I did look into fixes thomas asked for. About to type email on it :) but I think these should be ready to upload later tonight
[14:19] <OvenWerks> Once you go to three screens one ends up on top... or the graphic driver won't handle it
[14:19] <eylul> which is the other thing. are you around tonight or tomorrow sometime? 
[14:20] <eylul> that I didn't know
[14:20] <eylul> o.O
[14:20] <eylul> I use a laptop, limit is 2 screens anyway
[14:20] <OvenWerks> it is 720 am here and I will be around till 2100 my time
[14:20] <eylul> oh ok
[14:21] <OvenWerks> I won't have my eyes focused on irc though
[14:21] <eylul> mostly I'll probably need help putting the thing on distro
[14:21] <eylul> I actually never done it before
[14:21] <eylul> this is probably a good excuse to learn it
[14:21] <OvenWerks> I can upload but I can't release, that would be ross
[14:22] <eylul> I think I have upload access
[14:22] <eylul> I just don't know how, and should probably learn
[14:22] <OvenWerks> we used to ask micahg but I don't think he still has rights or time.
[14:22] <eylul> fairly certain ross and sakrecoer are the ones who has access to it
[14:23] <OvenWerks> for Ross I think best to send email
[14:23] <eylul> *nods*
[14:25]  * OvenWerks needs to do a bug for cpufrequtils sometime today
[14:25] <eylul> I'll probably be gone for.. uhhh
[14:25] <eylul> my evening
[14:26] <eylul> I will be back for a few hours at least starting 6 hours from now
[14:26] <eylul> timezones :))
[14:26] <OvenWerks> I used to keep a UTC clock going... but these days Manilla seems to be the thing
[14:27] <OvenWerks> (where the outlaws live)
[19:30] <OvenWerks> Ok, after some of the comments on here, I thought I should try vanilla actually installed.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> Nautilus, I assume that is the file "manager" in use is horrible. It has no menu... or one so tiny and useless and it may as well not have one. It has no up directory button, when browsing a remote computer, you can go anywhere on the disk when it is first opened, but when you open to that system the next time, it opens in the user's home direcory
[19:34] <OvenWerks> but with no up directory button it is impossible to get back to the original directory logged in to.
[19:34] <OvenWerks> The two session options are ubuntu and ubuntu on wayland... I have yet to check the second....
[19:35] <OvenWerks> no preferences... not even an about so you can check what version it is.
[19:36] <OvenWerks> Ah, I can get that from the dock
[19:37] <OvenWerks> it wants me to restart again, (like windows?)
[19:42] <OvenWerks> ubuntu on wayland is not gnome screen as someone suggested.
[19:43] <OvenWerks> wayland does not know what way my monitors are set up, Xorg knew this somehow or defaulted correctly.
[19:44] <OvenWerks> I had to change both the the monitors and primary display
[19:45] <studio-devel136> help
[19:45] <OvenWerks> One thing I did find is that it is possible to group application in the show applications section
[19:45] <OvenWerks> help is on #ubuntustudio
[19:46] <OvenWerks> this channel is for helping develop Studio
[19:47] <studio-devel136> Hola, no hablo inglés pero el traductor de chrome me ayuda, estoy probando ubuntu studio
[19:47] <OvenWerks> english please
[19:58] <OvenWerks> The mouse work in vanilla to go to the next workspace is yucky... left side of the screen to show workspaces, right side to choose. Not made to be used often.
[20:09] <OvenWerks> anyway, I have now installed Gno-menu which looks ok, and am now putting some Studio metas in place
[20:25] <OvenWerks> hmm, I managed to freeze things sort of. Got to no keyboard entry :/
[20:27] <OvenWerks> Anyway with the gno-menu, our menu file, an adition fix to the system menu file :) the menu looks sort of like whisker... so do able. We could probably do like we do now with a subdirectory of /etc/xdg/ for a studio login if we wanted to use this.
[20:31] <OvenWerks> Another way of fixing things would be to create a menu launcher that can be added to the dock rather than the top bar/panel/whatever
[20:48] <OvenWerks> Theres an option I like: Never prompt or start programs on media insertion
[20:48] <OvenWerks> It allows switching back and forth very easliy
[21:01] <ErichEickmeyer> !es
[21:01] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: he is already gone
[21:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I just saw that. Oh well...
[21:01] <OvenWerks> he was in the wrong place anyway
[21:02] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, either way that little command there is super handy.
[21:02] <OvenWerks> so long as you happen to know all the language codes.
[21:02] <ErichEickmeyer> True. I think it's listed somewhere, but idk off the top of my head.
[21:05] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: The way I see it, we cannot adapt Gnome Shell to behave like Xfce, so we shouldn't try. The only thing I see we can do is do custom theming with that, and then it's up to the user to customize it to their liking. That's just my 2c.
[21:06] <ErichEickmeyer> If anything, offer it as an option alongside the other DEs, but I wouldn't consider that one a priority.
[21:06] <OvenWerks> It's not bad
[21:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh, it's not bad by any means. In fact, there are aspects of it I quite enjoy.
[21:07] <OvenWerks> If someone enjoys the way it works there are not many things to add or subtract to make it a bit better
[21:08] <ErichEickmeyer> That's true. There are some pretty neat things in https://extensions.gnome.org as well.
[21:08] <OvenWerks> Just adding a menu makes looking to see what is on the system easier.
[21:08] <OvenWerks> Having things split up helps too.
[21:09] <OvenWerks> Knowing that gimp is a graphic application is better than just knowing you have gimp for example.
[21:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, definitely. From the perspective of a GNOME user, simply hitting super and then typing the name or category you're looking for would be the workflow as opposed to fishing through a menu.
[21:10] <OvenWerks> once you know what is there that is true, but someone who loads a Studio meta doesn't really know what they have
[21:11] <ErichEickmeyer> Yep, which is why customizing Ubuntu Mate Welcome's software botique to Studio would be invaluable, since you can list included apps there.
[21:11] <OvenWerks> I personally have found I almost never find what I want using a search, my ideas of what to search for and the rest of the world seems to be different
[21:11] <OvenWerks> So even for the avid search engin user, the menu is a backup.
[21:14] <OvenWerks> Studio, with all applications installed, is messy and has too many applications to go wandering through to look for something. As a desktop for normal computer use... who really needs a menu?
[21:18] <ErichEickmeyer> That's true. Pretty much every DE aside from Gnome Shell has a menu that is also searchable. BTW, I think my next attempt will be to use Studio with LXQt on Simon Quigley's recommendation.
[21:19] <OvenWerks> is there a flavour with lxqt? I thought lubuntu was still lzde
[21:19] <OvenWerks> *lxde
[21:20] <ErichEickmeyer> 18.04 will be Lubuntu's last LXDE, since LXDE and RazorQt merged to form LXQt. They're releasing Lubuntu Next this cycle which uses LXQt, but 18.10 will be completely LXQt.
[21:21] <OvenWerks> cool, I will have to look at it, lubuntu always had an unfinished feel to me.
[21:22] <ErichEickmeyer> Same. I'll be looking at it as well. Simon told me that a Qt-based DE is easier to maintain.
[21:23] <OvenWerks> Ya, that was their reason for going in that direction. From what I have heard, I agree
[21:24] <OvenWerks> gtk2 to gtk3 is not an easy task and has cost the audio comunity some great SW
[21:24] <ErichEickmeyer> With that in mind, it might be cool to transition to LXQt from Xfce for the install ISOs, but give a choice of DE as well.
[21:24] <ErichEickmeyer> choice of DE as part of the install.
[21:24] <OvenWerks> will have to see what it is like.
[21:25] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. My reasoning would be that LXQt has a smaller footprint than Xfce and, therefore, would make the ISO smaller.
[21:25] <OvenWerks> VFWM?
[21:25] <ErichEickmeyer> Now let's not get carried away.... XD
[21:26] <OvenWerks> sorry fvwm
[21:26] <ErichEickmeyer> I knew what you meant. :)
[21:26] <ErichEickmeyer> If we wanna get real lightweight and alienate our community... TWM.
[21:27] <OvenWerks> Tab is not so nice, I would take motif over that
[21:27] <ErichEickmeyer> haha
[21:28]  * OvenWerks used motif on a microvax at work....
[21:28] <ErichEickmeyer> My condolances?
[21:28] <OvenWerks> It was as good as win NT
[21:29] <OvenWerks> The microvax was at least real time capable
[21:29] <OvenWerks> We used it for machine control.
[21:29] <ErichEickmeyer> Huh. Interesting. Makes sense for an embedded system for sure.
[21:30] <OvenWerks> 100 foot long sorting machine
[21:30] <OvenWerks> media belt travels at 3meters/sec or so
[21:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh wow.
[22:57] <OvenWerks> gnome-tweaks is the package to have in gnome-screen. I am not sure why Vanilla fails to ship with this, it is like the other half of settings that should have been included in the first place
[22:58] <OvenWerks> I can have static or dynamic workspaces... workspaces on primary display only or workspaces span displays.
[23:02] <captain-tux> Anecdotal guess: Most common users aren't concerned with any of this.
[23:03] <OvenWerks> 5 people use work spaces...
[23:05] <OvenWerks> workspaces span displays does not seem to mean what I think it should
[23:06] <captain-tux> What does it mean there?
[23:07] <OvenWerks> It seems to mean that the second display shows all the apps on that display in any workspace and I have to choose it
[23:07] <OvenWerks> or choose the one I want
[23:07] <OvenWerks> So twice the work, pick left then pick right
[23:10] <OvenWerks>  Indicators sort of work... if I start qjckctl it's indicator does show up (+1) but all it does is show the window on double click, it does not show the indicator menu. So we have gone from a very usable systray where right click and left click could have two different menus, to indicators that could only have one menu... to indicators that have been gelded once again to no menus :P
[23:15] <OvenWerks> Ah, if I choose left first, right follows