[07:24] <chesedo> morning all
[08:44] <chesedo> Guys i want to try an experiment...
[08:45] <chesedo> Is assembly logic easier to follow than a higher language's?
[08:47] <chesedo> inetpro paddatrapper smile night confluency spinza superfly thatgraemeguy tumbleweed ^^
[08:49] <paddatrapper> chesedo: I don't find it to be, no
[09:08] <confluency> That's a pretty subjective judgement.
[09:09] <chesedo> confluency: meaning?
[09:09] <confluency> I mean that your question is unclear.
[09:09] <confluency> Are you asking if we personally find it easier to follow? Are you asking if we think most people find it easier to follow?
[09:09] <confluency> It's not an objective fact.
[09:13] <chesedo> hmm, that makes it even harder... so it seems like you are saying that some might find assembly logic easier?
[09:14] <chesedo> i am actually trying to sort out some exam issues, so that is it context...
[09:15] <chesedo> s/it/its/
[09:15] <confluency> Sorry, was afk.
[09:15] <chesedo> np
[09:16] <confluency> I think assembly instructions are relatively easy to understand in isolation, because they're so simple, but a short piece of high-level code translates to a much longer sequence of assembly code. So comparing them directly is comparing apples and oranges. It's like asking whether it's easier to understand how to make stitches than how to make a shirt.
[09:16] <confluency> I guess I'm saying I don't understand what you're actually asking.
[09:17] <confluency> Let me rephrase that.
[09:17] <chesedo> the context is entire programs, so the longer sequence
[09:18] <confluency> Are you asking if it's easier to understand assembly than *the same length* of high-level code, or *the equivalent program* in high-level code? 
[09:19] <chesedo> equivalent program
[09:19] <chesedo> will give the entire question in a bit...
[09:19] <confluency> Well, it would be longer and more verbose. I'd say that most people would find it more difficult.
[09:19] <confluency> Although not necessarily everyone; maybe some people would find it easier to understand because it was completely spelled out.
[09:21] <confluency> But assembly has a very limited instruction set, and the low-level implementation of e.g. loops is just tedious.
[09:24] <chesedo> confluency: i am trying to debug the marking of an exam script... this one is question n on this page -> https://pasteboard.co/Hh0J4xH.jpg
[10:00] <confluency> chesedo: is it supposed to be 5?
[10:01] <confluency> Are you marking this exam? Did you write this exam?
[10:03] <chesedo> confluency: wrote it, but do not agree how it was marked (like the last three questions on that paper)...
[10:03] <chesedo> page*
[10:03] <confluency> I'm pretty sure the answer they want is 5.
[10:04] <confluency> I don't know about the others; I don't really know assembly. But the others seem like straightforward factual questions.
[10:06] <confluency> Last one is also 5.
[10:07] <chesedo> oh, so far I can disprove all (except 2 and 3) from the textbook... i thought this was more common, so will have to present all the evendince to the dean...
[10:07] <chesedo> confluency: the hex calculation?
[10:07] <confluency> Yes. It's 194, which is none of the above.
[10:07] <paddatrapper> I would agree with 5. The easier to follow is too subjective - to someone who only writes assembly it would be easier to follow
[10:07] <paddatrapper> Whol
[10:08] <paddatrapper> While someone who write Javascript for a living would struggle even though individually the instructions are simpler 
[10:08] <chesedo> confluency: http://www.calculator.net/hex-calculator.html?number1=EC&c2op=%2B&number2=98&calctype=op&x=94&y=28
[10:09]  * paddatrapper grumbles about mobile keyboards...
[10:09] <confluency> Hmm, maybe I did something dumb.
[10:09] <chesedo> i have checked that one in three ways just to make sure i was right...
[10:09] <confluency> Yeah, my bad. It is 184.
[10:10] <chesedo> ubuntu's calculator also supports hex calculations
[10:11] <confluency> chesedo: all the other questions are straightforwardly falsifiable, but I think you're wrong about n.
[10:12] <confluency> Assembly is *less* compatible *because* it's so low-level.
[10:12] <confluency> It is known for being less portable.
[10:12] <confluency> 3 is subjective, and it's far less clear-cut than 5.
[10:16] <chesedo> confluency: i agree with you there
[10:19] <chesedo> The problem then is that the learning material should be corrected as they will just throw that at a person when trying to prove it as corrrect
[12:09] <chesedo> here is the textbook extract (which i emailed to the director) regarding n
[12:12] <chesedo> by libraries it seems that they may mean things like a libraries that makes use of a specific hardware capability (like something using the SSE or AES in a processor) that may not be accessible by higher languages (ties in with option 4)
[12:13] <chesedo> In the disadvantage list, the textbook does have the portability restriction highlighted by confluency 
[12:14] <chesedo> oops the extract -> https://pasteboard.co/Hh1Om87.jpg
[12:15] <confluency> "with multiple entries" makes more sense, I guess.
[12:16] <chesedo> yeah, like an auto fallback...
[12:16] <confluency> In that case, I'd say your answer was correct.
[12:16] <chesedo> but will still be architecture specifiec
[12:16] <confluency> Since the question literally seems to be "which of these points was not in the book?"
[12:17] <confluency> This marking was so weird that I wonder if the marker got answer sheets mixed up. ;)
[12:18] <chesedo> that is what i am thinking too. but the lecturer does not want to do anything about this, hence the email to the director...
[12:19] <confluency> Option 2 seems to be equivalent to the debugging described in point 1.
[12:19] <confluency> Is it just this page, or is the whole exam like this?
[12:20] <chesedo> the previous lecturer (from which the current one took over) has setup the memo, and i think he was angry for leaving and created a rogue memo
[12:20] <chesedo> the entire exam...
[12:20] <confluency> Did any other students experience the same issue?
[12:21] <confluency> Your complaint will have a lot more weight if a lot of people confirm the issue and complain together.
[12:21] <chesedo> yes, in my class only two students passed... the one has had all distinctions so far but just passed this exam
[12:22] <confluency> That sounds pretty weird. Seriously, talk to your fellow students.
[12:22] <chesedo> i am the other... got 62 for this exam but my worse mark ever (in 20 modules) is 85
[12:22] <confluency> If you got 62%, then surely the whole thing wasn't marked like this?
[12:23] <howz1t> ola guys and gals
[12:23] <confluency> It really could be a mistake in the marking sheets (one page out of order, pages swapped, etc.).
[12:23] <confluency> howz1t: hello
[12:23] <chesedo> unfortunatly i still have contact with only one other student who failed for the first time too and really badly
[12:23] <chesedo> hi howz1t
[12:24] <howz1t> how are yall doing?
[12:24] <confluency> chesedo: well, that's still something. How was their exam marked?
[12:24] <chesedo> confluency: i have an issue with about 25% of the markings, 13% which i can proof directly from the textbook
[12:24] <confluency> chesedo: are they grouped by page at all?
[12:26] <confluency> chesedo: do you not have email addresses or other contact details for the other students?
[12:27] <chesedo> i think he requested his marked script awhile ago... i had to wait about 3 months for mine...
[12:27] <chesedo> grouped by pages?
[12:27] <confluency> If there are any differences between your scripts, they may be useful.
[12:27] <confluency> Are the incorrectly marked questions grouped on particular pages?
[12:28] <confluency> Depending on what the marking guide looked like, the answers could also be shifted up by a question, or something.
[12:28] <chesedo> oh, no that is the only page with 3, the others are about one per page
[12:31] <chesedo> confluency: here is another page -> https://pasteboard.co/Hh1XA7p.jpg
[12:31] <chesedo> question 5.a
[12:32] <chesedo> and textbook extract -> https://pasteboard.co/Hh1XXnB.jpg
[12:33] <chesedo> the other student requested his marked script three weeks ago (i had to wait three months for mine)
[12:36] <chesedo> only 30% of the exam was multi choice questions so the others are harder to proof...
[12:44] <chesedo> oh, regarding the email of other students. My e-tutor group initially had an issue with the exam itself ( the exam was not inline with assignments for them and had questions on material that was not part of the course), which they were going to email the lecturer about. From it i could get the contact details of only one student who was part of that email
[12:48] <howz1t> what exam is this chesedo 
[12:48] <howz1t> if i may ask 
[12:48] <howz1t> lol
[12:49] <chesedo> grade two computer science module... COS2621 at UNISA to be specific
[12:55] <howz1t> cool, did I'm guessing that they screwed you on the marks?
[12:57] <chesedo> yes, possibly all students who wrote that exam...
[13:11] <howz1t> I went to the government college, we intentionally got lower marks in out term papers so that we would pass out final papers, our institutes are crazy!  
[13:13] <chesedo> howz1t: this is on the final paper...
[13:15] <howz1t> yep, the math teachers figured out that the algorithm that calculated the final mark would punish the student that got a good term mark and an average final paper mark
[13:15]  * chesedo is ok with under-marking as tool to improve/refine during the course
[13:17] <chesedo> for one assignment in this module I got 85, with only one big correct mark and no wrong marks (x's) anywhere... the lecturer has never told what was wrong specifically, so i could never use it to prepare for the exam.
[13:18] <howz1t> thats crazy... how do you learn if the lecturer doesn't show you where you have gone wrong...
[13:18] <chesedo> even if he did tell me what was, he decided to only answer my email about it two hours after the exam...
[13:18] <howz1t> :|
[13:19]  * chesedo goes to mow the very long lawn