[01:16] <krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: "we have to release a RC, but I simply don't know how exactly that's done" - that'd be the final release then of course, the RC images are due to be spun sometime tomorrow probably, then it's the same as on the recent final beta really - just preferably mark the images ready ourselves this time.. :P
[02:14] <ErichEickmeyer> krytarik: Ross did the final beta. I can't repeat the process unless i know the process to begin with.
[02:17] <krytarik> The only that Ross did there really is to call for testing on the mailing list.
[02:18] <krytarik> Erm, dropping words today - thing!
[02:19] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, I didn't do it, and neither Ross nor sakrecoer are available for the RC, Ross has announced he won't be available and I've been told by sakrecoer to assume that he won't be available for the release.
[02:20] <SlidingHorn> Had to clear my ~/.config/xfce/ again.  I'll have to go piece by piece and see where it's breaking :/
[02:20] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: You're not having much luck, my friend.
[02:20] <SlidingHorn> it's been a rough couple days, lol
[02:21] <krytarik> The only other things that come to mind now are: 1.) release notes, and 2.) release announcement on the website.
[02:21] <ErichEickmeyer> So, there's nothing I have to do to declare a certain daily build the release?
[02:22] <krytarik> You don't just go and declare some random image the release..
[02:22]  * SlidingHorn takes off his blindfold and puts darts down
[02:22] <krytarik> That's what the upcoming RCs are for.
[02:22] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I figured that. But a daily has to become a RC, does it not?
[02:23] <krytarik> Yeah, sure - when the release team decides it.
[02:24] <ErichEickmeyer> This release team? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-release
[02:25] <krytarik> And the release notes should definitely be in place or close to when the release happens - the announcement is entirely at our own discretion.
[02:25] <krytarik> No, the Ubuntu one.
[02:25] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, that works.
[02:26] <krytarik> I.e. the ones that are sitting in #ubuntu-release
[02:26] <ErichEickmeyer> Gotcha. I'm in communication with them, so I'm sure they'll be pinging myself or sakrecoer.
[02:28] <ErichEickmeyer> As far as release notes, I am unaware of anything that needs to be in there.
[02:30] <ErichEickmeyer> I have an idea.
[02:30] <krytarik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio - LOL, apparently the last time neither. :P
[02:31] <krytarik> Generally, apart from any changes we did, what should be put there is known issues though.
[02:32] <ErichEickmeyer> I just sent an email to the list in case anyone knows anything that should be included.
[02:33] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: If I figure out exactly what's breaking on my system, I'll obviously share asap
[02:34] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: That would be good. The folks in #xubuntu might want to know as well since, if it's Xfce, it affects them as well.
[02:35] <ErichEickmeyer> And, clearly, your issues are very Xfce-specific.
[02:37] <SlidingHorn> I asked in there around 7:30
[02:43] <OvenWerks> SlidingHorn: is this 18.04 xfce? 16.04 has been very stable for me.
[02:47] <OvenWerks> having Installed MATE... first complaint is the theme... which window has focus? I don't know, if there is no flashing curser I can't tell :P
[02:48] <OvenWerks> grabbing the half pixel wide side/bottom/corner handles is almost impossible too.
[02:50] <OvenWerks> Apparently the file manager is called Caja... it would be nice if the menu said caja (file manager)
[02:51] <OvenWerks> I have two panels by default, one on the top and one on the bottom, I guess like gnome2 desktops had.
[02:51] <krytarik> Does it say just "Files" too? :P
[02:51] <OvenWerks> no it just says caja. How am I supposed to know that is a file manager
[02:51] <krytarik> Heh..
[02:52] <OvenWerks> Files at least makes sense even if I don't know the program name, I know what it probably does.
[02:52] <krytarik> Yep, indeed.
[02:53] <OvenWerks> The two panels top and bottom probably made sense back when we had 4X5 aspect ratio... but not any more.
[02:53] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: If this is Ubuntu MATE, open the MATE Tweak app. Check the different layouts.
[02:55] <OvenWerks> Hmm, ""Brisk Menu" has quit unexpectedly"
[02:55] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, known bug unfortunately. 
[02:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Fortunately, there are other menus that can be used instead.
[02:56] <SlidingHorn> OvenWerks: it's the 18.04 Studio XFCE yes...
[03:02] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: the panel layouts seem to get worse. I think I shall have to make my own
[03:02] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, at least you can.
[03:03] <OvenWerks> ya, I can, don't know where that leaves the newby.
[03:03] <OvenWerks>   ;)
[03:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. This is probably one reason why tsimonq2 says a Qt-based desktop is easier to maintain.
[03:04] <OvenWerks> AH, I was about to ask what the desktop text editor was called... seems to be Pluma
[03:04] <krytarik> !
[03:05] <OvenWerks> It sort of makes sense... if anyone is two hundred years old they probably used a "plum" for writing...
[03:05] <SlidingHorn> What would y'all think of a WM without a full DE?
[03:05] <OvenWerks> The icon was good enough anyway.
[03:05] <OvenWerks> fvwm?
[03:06] <OvenWerks> motif?
[03:06] <SlidingHorn> kinda helps keep the "streamlined" and "getting out of the way" philosophy (or at lease my understanding of it) with Studio
[03:06] <SlidingHorn> I'm an i3/i3 gaps guy, but that's probably not going to fly with an Ubuntu release
[03:07] <OvenWerks> SlidingHorn: if I was going to go wm only, I would probably go fvwm... or openbox or something
[03:08] <SlidingHorn> I do love openbox
[03:08] <SlidingHorn> I'd be more than happy to spend the next several months setting up a theme for the release if we went that way
[03:09] <OvenWerks> hmm, I did something right, I got and old 95 style menu...
[03:09] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: One of the thigns we're looking at is theming as well, so have at it!
[03:09] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: The Redmond layout?
[03:09] <SlidingHorn> OvenWerks: noice.
[03:11] <OvenWerks> I don't think it was... the redmond layout is win 8ish
[03:12] <OvenWerks> Says traditional
[03:12]  * OvenWerks can't spell even looking at the word across the screen...
[03:12] <SlidingHorn> after I figure out where I'm breaking the current setup, I'll start breaking down Studio to an Openbox setup and play with it
[03:13] <OvenWerks> Thats what lubuntu used to be based on. It felt incomplete to me.
[03:15] <OvenWerks> Ah, found focus follows mouse... it's called: Select windows when the mouse moves over them.
[03:18] <OvenWerks> they have a menu editor (Oh no!)
[03:18]  * OvenWerks has had bad experiences with menu editors
[03:19] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Careful going down that rabbit hole.
[03:21] <SlidingHorn> That's one nice thing about openbox is that the menu is just XML
[03:21] <OvenWerks> SlidingHorn: thats one bad thing about openbox... it doesn't honor XDG
[03:23] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: I'd say the menu being XML is also its weakness.
[03:23]  * SlidingHorn just likes it because it's simple
[03:23] <OvenWerks> honouring xdg means a new app just shows up in the menu.
[03:24] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, but not simple for non-technical people.
[03:24] <OvenWerks> and xdg menu files are pretty much xdg.
[03:24] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: I'm a relatively non-technical guy
[03:25] <OvenWerks> unfortunately, all /etc/xdg/menus/menuconfig files are broken except for KDE's and Studio's
[03:25] <ErichEickmeyer> My wife would look at an XML file and go... ????
[03:25] <OvenWerks> my wife looks at the menu and it works... no files
[03:26] <ErichEickmeyer> ^That.
[03:26] <SlidingHorn> so where do we find the sweet spot between compliance, ease of use, stability, and overall speed?
[03:27] <ErichEickmeyer> And that is the question that every Linux user has been trying to answer since KDE was first released back in the 1990s.
[03:30] <OvenWerks> Not sure I like the selection of themes. it does say get more themes online, but I am assuming the ones included are known not to have "issues"
[03:31] <OvenWerks> "Blue-Submarine" for now I guess.
[03:31] <ErichEickmeyer> It should be able to take any GTK3 theme.
[03:33] <krytarik> That statement is hilarious in itself. :P
[03:39] <OvenWerks> window border to "WinMe" is almost fresh... (by comparison)
[03:53] <OvenWerks> Downloaded CDEtheme installed... older than win3, looks wonderful :)
[04:12] <OvenWerks> Ok, I will try installing Studio on top.
[05:25] <OvenWerks> hmm, my backdrop just changed. I don't think I set it to do that ???
[07:23] <flocculant> ErichEickmeyer: as far as release goes - you get all your ducks lined up - eg release notes (which they will ask for) and images marked as ready on the iso.tracker (do that yourself) and the rest will just fall into place.
[07:24] <flocculant> as far as marking ready - if you've not got perms and no-one else is around to do that - ping me, I'm in iso tracker admin group should be able to mark your images ready
[07:24] <flocculant> the idea is to not have the main release team chasing anyone unless they want to - they've more than enough to do
[10:51] <flocculant> ErichEickmeyer: looks to me like you're in the right team on LP to have the perms 
[14:35] <ErichEickmeyer> flocculant: Thanks! I appreciate the advice!
[15:03] <flocculant> no problem :)
[15:03] <flocculant> I'll hang about in channel till release is done 
[15:07] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. I appreciate it.
[15:48] <egildon> Hello all! :-)
[16:05] <OvenWerks> I expect to be around for the meeting... but family may decide lets go "there"...
[16:05] <OvenWerks> Further notes on MATE... 
[16:08] <OvenWerks> It does seem to have lots of ways it can be set up. Our menu does work provided the system configuration file is fixed. (the fix is merely in order so that overrides happen last instead of before the system imposes itself)
[16:10] <OvenWerks> The panel setting GUI for MATE could learn from XFCE, in particular, XFCE has one settings window that includes all panels rather than having to access a setting applet from each panel.
[16:16] <OvenWerks> The xfce panel settings also shows a list of things it includes making it easy to change their order, see what they are called, and change each applets settings all from one place.
[16:26] <OvenWerks> I have not yet found a resonable theme. The CDEtheme doews not affect the title of the window... and really, I am probably one of very few who might like it.
[16:29] <OvenWerks> Of the themes that come with MATE, the nice looking ones, make getting actual work done difficult for someone who uses lots of windows it is hard to follow which window has focus. Focus follows mouse (which is not defualt) helps some. The two themes that have good contrasting window titles for focus, are blinding bright and leave a terminal window almost unreadable.
[16:31] <OvenWerks> Finding a theme that is both "modern" in look and useful for work has not been easy.
[18:09] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Arc should work on MATE.
[18:24] <krytarik> OvenWerks: I'm slowly getting the impression that your needs are special. :P
[18:59] <eylul> here for the meeting
[18:59] <captain-tux_> Hi!
[18:59] <ErichEickmeyer> Hello!
[18:59] <krytarik> Similarly.
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Yep! So we have myself, krytarik, eylul, captain-tux_, and OvenWerks was here, but dunno if he still is.
[19:01] <eylul> :)
[19:01] <eylul> hello
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool! Well, let's get this started.
[19:02] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: I guess we have to delay the wallpaper due to sponsorship reasons. No big deal as I recall from the last meeting.
[19:03] <eylul> not at all, the wallpaper is there. it actually gives me time to get a couple of color variations out for it in orange and purple
[19:03] <eylul> and perhaps propose some extra wallpapers
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Yep. I like that idea.
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Did everybody see OvenWerks's notes above about MATE?
[19:04] <eylul> *nods*
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Seems like his needs are very niche, though, so I'm not so sure they'd apply to new users.
[19:05] <eylul> I do remember when trying mate feeling restricted. so I would say partially
[19:05] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[19:06] <eylul> window theme is something to tackle independently, that I think can be a good challenge for us. *has some thoughts on it regarding XFCE side. no idea how to theme for gnome based DEs through*
[19:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Tbh, Xfce simply uses GTK2, GNOME/MATE use GTK3. Should be fairly similar.
[19:07] <eylul> oh ok cool
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> Any GTK2 theme works on Xfce. However, with GTK3 being the new(er) hotness, we're bound to see GTK2 themes becoming fewer in numbers as time goes on.
[19:09] <eylul> *nods* well assuming our default DE will be xfce at least for 18.10 
[19:10] <eylul> my thought is to design around limitations of XFCE, and then... well it should be adaptable to gtk3 based systems. anyhow.. things to think about after release pile ;)
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. We can table it for now.
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> So, any further old business from anyone?
[19:10] <OvenWerks> I is here.
[19:10] <OvenWerks> sorry to be late.
[19:11] <eylul> not from me :)
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: No worries. See everything discussed so far?
[19:12] <OvenWerks> There were a number of people who suggested MATE. I am kind of wondering what tings in MATE they found attractive...
[19:13] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably functionality more than anything, and it's familiar.
[19:14] <OvenWerks> So far, I think I would prefer ubuntu Vanilla to MATE. I do not know if I can really stand behind XFCE for any other reason than it is familiar and so I know how to set it up quickly
[19:15] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I would ask for a more comprehensive answer than that as I am so far not seeing this functionality
[19:16] <eylul> welcome/software center. polish (aesthethic wise), existence of some form of wacom gui were the reasons for me. and it does seem to have active support, comparing to xfce that is more slowly developed.
[19:17] <eylul> wacom gui as far as I know is in general available in gnome too.
[19:17] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Yeah, the welcome & software boutique is appealing, but even Ubuntu Budgie has that (which they forked from Ubuntu MATE). It can be used in any DE.
[19:17] <eylul> *nods*
[19:18] <ErichEickmeyer> So, I would consider that a separate topic than the DE, to be honest.
[19:18] <OvenWerks> Ok, that is good to know. I am sure I could learn to set MATE up. For me the polish is not really more than skin deep and it interferes (for me) with using the applications which is what I have a computer for after all.
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, that makes sense. Basically, for 18.10 as far as desktop environment, we need to ask two questions: 1) Is there a compelling reason to change default DE, 2) Which additional DE do we add first.
[19:19] <eylul> I would ask the question of where XFCE fails and where it does well
[19:19] <OvenWerks> yes!
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes.
[19:19] <OvenWerks> and the same with other DEs
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Which is why we're testing the waters, as it were.
[19:20] <OvenWerks> What do they add and what do they subract
[19:20] <eylul> because ideally we don't want to lose aspects that do well. for me biggest issue with xfce is lack of settings, lack of wacom, and sometimes not quite as good at HIDPI screens. 
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed. Only GNOME Shell, MATE, and Plasma do HiDPI as of 18.04.
[19:20]  * OvenWerks finds MATE has lack of settings... or harder to set.
[19:21] <eylul> it does well with low resource requirement and being very stable and easy to customize to a point (although lack of widgets is sad) lack of wacom interface is a drawback (although existing guis are pretty basic too)
[19:21] <OvenWerks> MATE is easier to set up a nice menu with than Screen/Vanila
[19:22] <ErichEickmeyer> MATE is also easier to customize in terms of appletts than Gnome Shell, since all customizations are done with extensions in Shell. 
[19:22] <OvenWerks> Though I never use it (monitors are only 900 pix high) I would consider dealing with HIDPI a priority.
[19:23] <ErichEickmeyer> That to say, it's easier to make default layouts in MATE than Gnome Shell.
[19:23] <eylul> *nods at ovenwerks*
[19:23] <ErichEickmeyer> Honestly, from a photography and graphics design perspective, HiDPI needs to be a priority.
[19:23] <OvenWerks> gnome shell is anti panel/menu so far as I can tell.
[19:24] <eylul> OvenWerks: that's my primary issue with gnome shell but again that might be a personal choice
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: This is true, which is why it would have to be up to the end user to customize it to their liking using https://extensions.gnome.org.
[19:25] <eylul> another thing to consider that I think kde gets closest to deal with is..
[19:25] <eylul> workspaces
[19:25] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I would consider it a requirement to include any extensions needed to get a usable environment.
[19:25] <eylul> I absolutely love KDE's activities. and being able to bind them to time tracker (hamster) although it requires a fair bit of well hacking to do so :)
[19:26] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Unfortunately, if you look at Dieder Roche's blog from this past year, doing that requires forking individual extensions, renaming them, and making packages for each one.
[19:26] <OvenWerks> eylul: kde activities: what is the memory use like?
[19:26] <eylul> at some point I had something like 6
[19:26] <ErichEickmeyer> As a Plasma user myself, memory use of plasma is much lower than Gnome SHELL.
[19:26] <eylul> didn't notice anything but then again...
[19:26] <eylul> gaming laptop
[19:27] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: so maybe we should consider gnomesession as something to save for later.
[19:27] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I would say that we could go for it, but I wouldn't make it the first additional DE.
[19:27] <eylul> gnome shell's adventage is.. the amount of development and support it is getting
[19:28] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I was thinking not of plasma, but when activities are used.
[19:28] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Activities are nothing more than customizable workspaces. It's the same as adding a virtual workspace.
[19:28] <OvenWerks> My understanding is that activities each have their own setup.
[19:29] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes, but not a new instance of Plasma Shell for each one.
[19:29] <OvenWerks> ok.
[19:29] <eylul> they have their own background, and name but yeah
[19:29] <eylul> they don't have, for example saparate menu bars.
[19:29] <OvenWerks>  so the only real problem with plasma is not dealing properly with window stacking hints.
[19:29] <eylul> (I wish)
[19:29] <eylul> *nods*
[19:30] <OvenWerks> (and the audio applet is painful for any complex audio setup)
[19:30] <ErichEickmeyer> Honestly, that's not a complete deal breaker as that varies according to the task management widget used.
[19:31] <OvenWerks> most DEs (even fvwm) allow different backdrops per workspace
[19:31] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: we would want to choose the right one as default :)
[19:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed, and that's something that can actually be done.
[19:32] <ErichEickmeyer> And I've never had a problem with the audio widget, especially since it was simplified.
[19:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow... we can table this discussion since it will be ongoing.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: try it with something like a ice1712 based card
[19:33] <eylul> I do have some more observations on KDE (e.g. file viewer in some ways have better features for images, but XFCE's thunar actually is a lot more reliable when importing files from a mobile phone using mts) the image viewer is able to handle slightly larger images on xfce, KDE side it handles more types. KDE file viewer can preview raws. *shuts up*
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> LOL
[19:34] <eylul> *pointedly shuts up*
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I do like Dolphin.
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> ANYHOW....
[19:34] <eylul> :) 
[19:35] <OvenWerks> eylul: as we are purposely adding many gtk applications, having both versions of file manager is not a problem
[19:35] <ErichEickmeyer> We should move on. We could talk DE all day, but since it's an 18.10 thing, we should table it for now.
[19:35] <OvenWerks> k
[19:35] <eylul> Ovenwerks I have things to say on that. after the meeting :)))
[19:35] <OvenWerks> release. I think that when xubuntu is ready we are...
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> On to new business: I only saw the one item is a bug report OvenWerks filed (bug 1761887), which isn't a blocker bug by any means. Also, I was unable to duplicate.
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> So, that might be in the release notes.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> not worth persuing. Rui is unlikely to spend any time on it.
[19:37] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Might even be considered a "wishlist" item for that reason.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> This problem has been there since at least 16.04 (since Rui moved qjackctl to qt5)
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably a Qt5 port issue then.
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> I'm not really worried at all, the app still functions.
[19:39] <ErichEickmeyer> Anybody have anything else for the release notes? 
[19:39] <eylul> not that I can think of, unless any other known problems surfaced during testing
[19:39] <OvenWerks> -not a LTS
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> (This can also be discussed on the ML)
[19:40] <eylul> I did notice some issues SlidingHorn noted did we get to the bottom of them?
[19:40] <OvenWerks> though applications and DE will receive LTS treatment
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: I'm not sure he filed a bug report explaining the steps required to duplicate his issue.
[19:41] <eylul> ok
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> That said, there doesn't seem to be any activity regarding a similar issue, so whether or not it is even reproducable is questionable.
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> Seems like a dotfile somewhere in his home folder is getting corrupted, but idk.
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, next item.
[19:43] <eylul> *nods*
[19:44] <ErichEickmeyer> I authorized a FFe for musexcore-sftools and fluidr3mono-gm-soundfont (bug 1761272)
[19:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Looks like it'll be in the final release.
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> I couldn't see any issues with it, unlike the other FFe request we talked about last week.
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Any thoughts? Discussion?
[19:46]  * OvenWerks wishes he could read music in real time...
[19:46] <eylul> nice
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. That's all that was on the agenda. I have a couple of items, first one is just to mull over and think about.
[19:47] <eylul> sorry i tabbed out to read the bug.
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Thoughts?
[19:47] <eylul> *points up to the "nice"* no I think it is good to input that fix
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[19:47] <eylul> and I am glad it didn't fall through the cracks. :)
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> We have a number of packages installed by default that accomplish the same purpose (kdenlive vs openshot, etc.). I recommend we whittle that down to one and, in the Software Boutique (section of -welcome) show those items as optional installs. The nice thing about the boutique is it gives the option of removing items as well, so they can do it all in one interface.
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> (this would be for 18.10).
[19:50] <OvenWerks> I have no problem with that.
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> This would slim down our .iso big time.
[19:50] <eylul> yeah the iso.. is
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> Gigantic?
[19:51] <OvenWerks> I believe there were reasons for duplicating some things, but I am not much of a video editor
[19:51] <eylul> I think in some cases it is ok to have 2 versions of same software. as.. they have similarly sized userbases
[19:51] <eylul> *looks pointedly at darktable and rawtherapee*
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed. It makes sense in a world when you'd want all of your software at once, but now that things are so much easier to install (esp with boutique) it seems a little like unnecessary software bloat.
[19:52]  * OvenWerks could point out that there are a number of people who record on Ardour and mix on MixBus... 
[19:52] <eylul> I think it is in some ways leftover from times where people used livecds
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah.
[19:52] <eylul> to do work in, where you expected, to put in a CD, and work on that
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, those are nearly two different usecases, so I'd be in favor of keeping both.
[19:52] <eylul> which.. most new laptops ship without even a CD drive these days :D
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> Yep.
[19:53] <OvenWerks> eylul: but, but, it's right next to the floppy...
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> So, that's just something to ponder. Wanted to throw that out there. In the interest of keeping things relatively short, just something to think about.
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: LOL!
[19:53] <eylul> I am not sure about kdenlive and openshot as they have different use cases but yeah fully agreed to take a critical look. 
[19:54] <eylul> about the software boutique
[19:54] <eylul> I was thinking about the log krytarik linked 
[19:55] <eylul> I am wondering  if.. IF (because I am not the one who would maintain this after all) if this could be a good way to dip into maintaining our own PPA repository
[19:55] <eylul> if we chose to do that and end up doing a fair bit of packaging and how would ubuntu tech team feel about that
[19:55] <eylul> as biggest concern about the issue was 3rd party PPAs.
[19:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, Kubuntu has a backports ppa, but it's not enabled by default.
[19:55] <OvenWerks> I think the big thing is licencing
[19:56] <OvenWerks>  backports are fine.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> kxstudio is not
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> I don't think I'd want the boutique pointing to unofficial repos for our purposes. Just showcasing software already in the repos should be enough.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> using a PPA to include linuxsampler for example would be wrong.
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> That takes out the controversy element.
[19:57] <eylul> ovenwerks: from what I know kxstudio is in progress of removing some of those elements
[19:57] <eylul> some, not sure if all
[19:57] <OvenWerks> yes.
[19:57] <eylul> ericheickmeyer that's fair
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> Showcasing some snaps would be okay, but that's not a repo per se.
[19:58] <eylul> snaps is another solution if it can be a good solutio
[19:58] <eylul> solution
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> I have yet to bug popey on that, but he's all for having the discussion.
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> Snaps have really come a long way just in the past 6 months.
[19:58] <OvenWerks> snaps where they can work are fine, probably not for audio though.
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. Gimp, for example, would be good.
[19:59] <eylul> maybe...
[19:59] <OvenWerks> gimp has plugins too
[20:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Still worth exploring, but I didn't want to open that can of worms right now.
[20:00] <OvenWerks> the snap would have to include all useful plugins or snaps would have to be "mergable"
[20:00] <eylul> also main issue there is that debian packaging especially has some rules that conflict with things like godot's shop and export plugins. we do need an option for those things down the line. that is not licensing issue exactly, but still well..
[20:00] <eylul> that's fair ErichEickmeyer
[20:01] <ErichEickmeyer> I wanted to know how you guys felt about not having a meeting next week since it's just after release, and taking a break before we hit 18.10 with all we've got would be, in my opinion, a good idea.
[20:02] <eylul> I am ok with it either way :)
[20:02] <OvenWerks> fine by me. this is not the best time for me on a saturday, but maybe not easy to change
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Also, it looks like I won't even be available next week. :/
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. So we'll come back on Cinco de Mayo.
[20:04] <OvenWerks> k
[20:04] <eylul> :)
[20:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Alright. I have nothing further. Shall we adjourn?
[20:04] <eylul> sure
[20:04] <OvenWerks> ok
[20:05] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. Meeting adjourned. I'll get the notes up sometime in the next few hours.
[20:05] <eylul> OvenWerks: re adding Dolphin and Gwenview into XFCE, it is something definitely to consider. 
[20:06] <eylul> I did it on my travel laptop, but main issue there is.. they tend to bring a lot of KDE/Plasma packages with them
[20:06] <OvenWerks> in the future maybe... I am trying to deal with MAE for a while yet.
[20:06] <eylul> :)
[20:06] <OvenWerks> *MATE
[20:08] <eylul> I think they are useful, just something to think about if we think about going that route seriously :)
[20:08] <eylul> *can't formulate a sentence*
[20:08] <OvenWerks> anything but "Files"
[20:08]  * ErichEickmeyer shudders at the thought of files/nautilus
[20:09] <eylul> hahah
[20:09] <eylul> can't comment, haven't used it in ages
[20:09] <OvenWerks> by that point one may as well use firefox as a file manager
[20:09] <eylul> hey! I actually like firefox :)
[20:09] <OvenWerks> as a file manager?
[20:09] <eylul> hahaha
[20:10] <eylul> point taken
[20:10] <OvenWerks> is there a theme editor out there?
[20:10] <eylul> but both dolphin and thunar have so many good sides to them, I wish I could somehow merge them into one file manager.
[20:28]  * captain-tux_ crawls out of cave...
[20:29] <captain-tux_> Actually I've been using Nautilus for a while, because Thunar has been rellay unreliable on me and Dolphin just looks too complicated. / Change my mind.
[20:41] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux_: LOL
[20:42] <captain-tux_> Have I missed a joke? :P
[20:51] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux_: "change my mind"
[20:52] <captain-tux_> Oh okay, I thought that was directed towards my poor little file manager again. :P
[20:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Nope, just the meme.
[23:21] <OvenWerks> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Apr 20 17:05 software-boutique -> /usr/bin/snap
[23:22] <OvenWerks> hu, does this mean the software boutique is a part of snap? or that it is a snap package and so has to be started by snap?
[23:43] <OvenWerks> it has to be started by snap
[23:55] <OvenWerks> It appears pulls it's application list from git when it starts up.