[06:53] <vlt> Hello. On MATE I switched from 16.04 to 18.04 and found a regression in the volume control. The master slider only has an effect when pulling it to "0" (which seems to enable "mute"), any higher value causes -0 dB attenuation on my output.
[06:53] <lotuspsychje> vlt: as in upgrade?
[06:53] <vlt> The volume sliders in the "applications" tab work.
[06:53] <vlt> lotuspsychje: No, fresh install, same hardware.
[06:54] <lotuspsychje> vlt: ok, have you doublechecked !sound
[06:54]  * vlt will
[06:55] <lotuspsychje> vlt: perhaps also a pavucontrol testing
[06:55] <vlt> lotuspsychje: Thank you.
[08:02] <katnip> does this +1 channel cover all the flavors till thursday?
[10:25] <katnip> what is shim signed and does it require a reboot?
[13:17] <stickyboy> I'm doing some due dilligence, testing some of my deployment scripts against Ubuntu 18.04, and I notice that there's something weird going on with maven's Java dependencies.
[13:18] <stickyboy> I'm kinda lost in the depends and provides loop, trying to figure out if it's an error or if I should report it.
[13:18] <stickyboy> I want to use openjdk-8-jre-headless. The tomcat8-common package is ok with this, but maven seems to always pull in Java 10.
[13:29] <stickyboy> Ah, openjdk-8-jre-headless provides java7-runtime-headless, and maven depends on java7-runtime-headless.
[13:30] <stickyboy> So it must be one of maven's dependencies that is pulling in Java 10.
[13:30] <ekennedy80> which version of maven?
[13:36] <stickyboy> ekennedy80: System default maven, currently 3.5.2-2.
[13:54] <ekennedy80> from the maven project: "Maven 3.3+ require JDK 1.7 or above to execute "
[13:54] <ekennedy80> I don't think Java 10 is a direct dependancy
[14:05] <stickyboy> ekennedy80: Yeah, it's an Ubuntu dependency issue. :)
[14:05] <stickyboy> I think something changed in the last two weeks, because I had been testing this recently and it worked.
[14:07] <stickyboy> And according to `aptitude why openjdk-11-jre-headless` I see maven indeed is the one that pulled in openjdk-11-jre-headless, despite it depending on: default-jre-headless (>= 2:1.7) | java7-runtime-headless
[14:07] <stickyboy> And openjdk-8-jre-headless actually provides java7-runtime-headless, so that should suffice.
[14:07] <stickyboy> Must be a bug.
[14:08] <nacc> stickyboy: what did you specify to install?
[14:08] <nacc> stickyboy: you have to specify explicitly openjdk-8-jre-headless, or it will use 11
[14:10] <stickyboy> nacc: I installed openjdk-8-jdk-headless (JDK) which depends on openjdk-8-jre-headless (JRE) which provides java7-runtime-headless.
[14:10] <nacc> stickyboy: right, but your default jre is 11
[14:11] <stickyboy> nacc, but I'm installing openjdk-8-jdk-headless manually.
[14:11] <nacc> stickyboy: to get maven to use java8 probably requires you to update-alternatives at a minimum
[14:11] <stickyboy> Err, explicitly.
[14:11] <nacc> stickyboy: so?
[14:11] <nacc> stickyboy: what does `java -version` say?
[14:12] <stickyboy> Wait, but first, doesn't this mean a logical OR for maven's depends: default-jre-headless (>= 2:1.7) | java7-runtime-headless
[14:13] <stickyboy> I don't want to have to install Java 8 and Java 10 and then update-alternatives. The openjdk-8-jre-headless satisfies maven's dependency. That's why I think there's a packaging bug.
[14:13] <nacc> it means either of those packages provide the necessary dependency for that stanza
[14:13] <nacc> it doesn't mean if you pick one or the other that's what the package will use
[14:14] <nacc> since default-jre-headless is probalby *also* installed
[14:14] <stickyboy> nacc: Right, I'm not talking about what maven will use.
[14:14] <stickyboy> I'm talking about maven pulling in Java 11.
[14:14] <nacc> then I don't know what you're talking about stickyboy
[14:14] <nacc> stickyboy: what was the explicit apt-get line you used?
[14:14] <stickyboy> apt install openjdk-8-jdk-headless maven
[14:17] <nacc> stickyboy: ok ... read the dependencies again and read what you wrote again
[14:17] <nacc> jdk vs. jre
[14:18] <stickyboy> nacc: JDK pulls in JRE, and the JRE satisfies the java7-runtime-headless dependency of maven.
[14:18] <nacc> hrm, that may not be it
[14:18] <stickyboy> :)
[14:18] <nacc> stickyboy: when i try to run it, i don't get any reference to 11
[14:18] <stickyboy> Totally a bug. Now I know I'm not crazy.
[14:18] <nacc> also default-jre is 10 in ubuntu
[14:18] <stickyboy> nacc: Ok, let me do one more thing: lemme clean up my apt sources.
[14:19] <nacc> stickyboy: oh i do see it pulling in default-jre-headless, though
[14:19] <stickyboy> I'm running through my normal Ansible provisioning scripts for our stack. The same ones I've been using since 12.04, 14,04, 16.04, etc.
[14:19] <stickyboy> BTW there's definitely something brewing with Java versions in Ubuntu 18.04: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-February/004275.html
[14:20] <stickyboy> And this was working two weeks ago.
[14:20] <nacc> yes, we will be SRUing in newer versions
[14:20] <stickyboy> Awesome, you're "we" (Ubuntu). :P
[14:21] <stickyboy> Basically, I want to run Tomcat 8 with OpenJDK 8. It was working two weeks ago when I first started porting our playbooks. The app was running.
[14:22] <stickyboy> I technically don't mind if Java 11 is sitting there unused on the system, though it seems erroneous and wasteful if I have Java 8 and did not explicitly pull in Java 11.
[14:22] <stickyboy> I know we have to take pre-releases with a grain of salt, too, so I usually just wait a few days and apt update and try again.
[14:26] <stickyboy> Hold that thought, BRB.
[14:46] <stickyboy> I'm back, nacc, if you're still around.
[14:47] <nacc> stickyboy: ack, although i'm on the phone
[14:48] <nacc> stickyboy: i'm trying to see why default-jre-headless is getting pulled in, it's some other dep, i think
[14:48] <stickyboy> No problem.
[14:49] <nacc> stickyboy: intersting
[14:50] <nacc> i installed opejdk-8-jdk-headless first
[14:50] <nacc> then maven
[14:50] <nacc> and it dtrt
[14:50] <nacc> so it seems like, possibly a bug in apt?
[14:50] <nacc> let me ask around
[14:54] <stickyboy> nacc: What's 'dtrt'?
[14:54] <stickyboy> Typo or ubuntu dev slang? :P
[14:55] <nacc> do the right thing
[14:55] <stickyboy> Ah ok.
[14:58] <stickyboy> Ah, you're right. If I install opejdk-8-jdk-headless first then maven does not pull in Java 11.
[14:59] <stickyboy> nacc: ^
[14:59] <nacc> stickyboy: ack, i'm arguing with the dev
[14:59] <stickyboy> LOL
[15:02] <stickyboy> nacc: Also, I just purged everything and tried with aptitude. It does the right thing.
[15:04] <nacc> stickyboy: strange
[15:07] <nacc> stickyboy: ok, so this seems to be one of those thing sthat 'can happen' -- you can look for apt bugs on it, or you can just use the workaround i suggested, which shoiuld always work
[15:08] <stickyboy> nacc: Yeah, I'm already adding a workaround in my Ansible playbooks so that openjdk-8-jdk-headless is installed first in a separate transaction.
[15:08] <nacc> stickyboy: yep, that should always be safe, and resolves the dependency tree outside of the single command
[15:08] <nacc> which was probably just 'ahppening' to work in older releases where java8 was the only option
[15:09] <stickyboy> Thanks for helping me track it down.
[15:09] <nacc> stickyboy: np
[15:09] <nacc> stickyboy: sorry for dismissing it as PEBCAK at first :)
[15:09] <nacc> tbh, java in 18.04 appears to be a mess
[15:09] <nacc> stickyboy: apt developer says they can't find the bug, so if you do want to file one, that'd be great -- it's definitely an unexpected behavior
[15:10] <boboma> hello. i filed a bug on launchpad. how can i set it as a regression bug?
[15:10] <nacc> boboma: as in an update to an existing release?
[15:11] <nacc> boboma: there are no 'regressions' in bionic, because it hasn't release yet
[15:11] <nacc> *released
[15:11] <boboma> a regression between 17.10 and 18.04
[15:12] <nacc> there's an sru-regression (or regression-update) tag
[15:12] <nacc> but not sure if there is one for releases
[15:13] <boboma> hm. ok. how long does it usually take until somebody responds to bug reports?
[15:13] <boboma> i mean the maintainer of the program that has the bug for example
[15:14] <stickyboy> nacc: I could be inclined to file a bug about the apt dependency issue. Never done it for Ubuntu, though. Is it through Launchpad?
[15:20] <nacc> stickyboy: yes
[15:20] <nacc> boboma: ... often there is not 'the maintainer'
[15:20] <nacc> boboma: and it depends on the package involved
[15:21] <nacc> stickyboy: ok, got more clarifcation
[15:21] <nacc> you can hold off on the bug
[15:21] <nacc> it is what i said originally
[15:21] <nacc> you need to specify the jre explicitly
[15:22] <nacc> if you don't, the dependency resolution order is undefined
[15:22] <nacc> ith appened to be ok for you before, because probably there was only 8
[15:22] <nacc> and 8 happened to be the default
[15:22] <stickyboy> nacc: Ok.
[15:23] <sveinse> What is the pratical difference between running docker via apt vs via snap ?
[15:25] <sveinse> What would you choose?
[15:25] <nacc> stickyboy: so the 'right' way is to specify openjdk-8-jre-headless rather than jdk-headless, i think
[15:25] <nacc> stickyboy: and confirmd, no 11 instllation
[15:27] <nacc> sveinse: practical? not much i'd assume. docker snap will update more frequently
[15:54] <stickyboy> nacc: I need JDK though. :)
[15:55] <nacc> stickyboy: ok, but not for maven itself
[15:55] <nacc> stickyboy: so then you'd also install that separately (i think) (or it could be on the same line as maven, but it doesn't have to dow ith maven)
[15:56] <stickyboy> nacc: Ah, I see this does work: apt install openjdk-8-jre-headless openjdk-8-jdk-headless maven
[15:56] <stickyboy> Because I guess it happens in the same transaction.
[15:57] <nacc> stickyboy: right, that's what i was saying before (the only bit that matters is the first and last packages)
[15:57] <nacc> openjdk-8-jdk-headless is an entirely separate package tree
[15:58] <stickyboy> nacc: Logically, though, openjdk-8-jdk-headless brings in openjdk-8-jre-headless, which satisfies maven's dependencies.
[15:58] <stickyboy> So that's frustrating. :P
[15:59] <nacc> stickyboy: as I said, it's about "when" dependencies are resolved
[15:59] <nacc> stickyboy: apt doesn't go to that level of recursion, I think
[16:00] <stickyboy> Yah, that's a hard problem to solve.
[16:00] <stickyboy> I don't mind working around it.
[16:00] <stickyboy> Like you said, though, I never ran into this before because I was already using Java 8.
[16:01] <nacc> well, because java 8 was the defeault
[16:01] <nacc> so you actually were installing a second pacakge (default-jre)
[16:01] <nacc> it just happened to be the same as what you wanted
[16:01] <stickyboy> I was using Oracle (!) Java actually, but yes.
[16:01] <stickyboy> Enough with Oracle binary crap.
[16:02] <stickyboy> Open source, reproducible packages for the mf win.
[16:07] <Volkodav> I've made a partial upgrade and it now starts without X, startx logs me in Gnome session and I can't figure how can I get to my login screen so I can log in XFCE session which I normally run
[16:08] <Volkodav> logout kills X again and gets me to tty1
[16:19] <brainwash> Volkodav: sudo systemctl start lightdm
[16:19] <brainwash> or gdm3 (maybe without the 3)
[16:34] <BionicMac> join #nextcloud
[16:48] <sveinse> if I install docker with snap, how do I setup access for a user? I notice that there is no /var/lib/docker* nor is there a docker user/group to add oneself to, so I'm kinda stuck what to do next
[16:58] <tda> whts the default filesystem in bionic?
[16:59] <nacc> tda: ext4
[16:59] <tda> nacc: still? thanks
[17:00] <nacc> tda: ... why would it change?
[17:02] <tda> a few other distros switched over to xfs. i usually use it to due to it just working and generally having fewer problems
[17:02] <nacc> tda: ext4 also 'just works' and ... I can't remember the last time I had a filesystem problem on Linux
[17:02] <nacc> tda: xfs is great for large files, but historically had issues with small files (which is the much more common case on desktops)
[17:03] <nacc> tda: in any case, I don't think there is any driving impetus to move to anything else
[17:03] <donofrio> (I use ntfs - I'll go back to mute)
[17:03] <nacc> lol
[17:03] <tda> lol
[17:03] <tda> anyone try flash friendly?
[19:48] <pepermuntjes> hi
[19:48] <pepermuntjes> how do i hide the firefox top bar? 
[19:48] <tda> file, edit, view, etc...?
[19:53] <pepermuntjes> why does the gnome software center installs another version of firefox (the snap one)
[20:03] <pepermuntjes> why is there no vlc in apt? 
[20:05] <SlidingHorn> pepermuntjes: there is - https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/vlc
[20:05] <pepermuntjes> thanks, forgot to enable that repo
[20:05] <pepermuntjes> whats better from repo or snap package?
[20:06] <SlidingHorn> pepermuntjes: honestly, I think it's subjective.  I'm not really up-to-speed on the whole snap idea, which may contribute to what disdain I do have for it...
[20:07] <nacc> pepermuntjes: you forgot to enable the ubuntu repo?
[20:07] <SlidingHorn> nacc: universe
[20:07] <nacc> pepermuntjes: ah, so not a default install
[20:08] <pepermuntjes> doing some testing using a live disk on a virtual machine
[21:34] <en1gma> if i install ubuntu 18.04 "freeze" will there be anything different from the 18.04 LTS coming out tomorrow?
[21:38] <SlidingHorn> !final | en1gma maybe a couple small bug fixes
[21:42] <en1gma> ok. gonna grab a daily build then "Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Bionic Beaver) Daily Build"
[21:43] <en1gma> will the software updater to tell me to do it also?
[21:45] <SlidingHorn> en1gma: I'm don't know if there would be any notification if you're already running the beta
[21:46] <SlidingHorn> s/I'm/I *
[22:23] <ayee> For some reason the hidraw kernel module isn't loaded on the VM I'm running. I can't figure out why. I can see hidraw compile flag was set  to yes, but lsmod doesn't show hidraw. I'm on bionic latest, with the latest updates, etc
[22:23] <ayee> Is the latest bionic kernel missing the hidraw kernel module?
[22:38] <hggdh> ayee: I cannot see this module on the current an previous kernels
[22:42] <ayee> hggdh: The weird thing is this: ➜  /boot cat config-4.15.0-19-generic|grep -i hidraw; uname -r CONFIG_HIDRAW=y 4.15.0-19-generic
[22:42] <ayee> It seems like it gets compiled in?
[22:47] <Guest57550> Hi all, the unstable release broke my computer  :P
[22:49] <Guest57550> More specifically, I suspend my Kubuntu 18.04 RC 1 install on actual hardware, resume it, and my trackpad goes totally nuts. Touches respond erratically and also type gibberish into any focused text field.
[22:49] <hggdh> ayee: doesn't that mean it is compiled *in* the kernel?
[22:49] <hggdh> ayee: as opposed to CONFIG_HIDRAW=m
[22:50] <hggdh> ayee: yes, it is built in the kernel, not as a module
[22:50] <kus> will I automatically get the latest gnome if I upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04? Is there a way to upgrade "cleanly"? I have multiple accounts on this computer and would prefer to not reformat and reinstall if possible. I am on artful 17.10 at the moment. Thanks 
[22:52] <hggdh> kus: you will get (mostly) Gnome 3.28
[22:53] <hggdh> oh, even evolution is 3.28
[22:54] <kus> oh wow nice 
[22:54] <kus> but I have learned to never ever enter my google information in evolution. #neveragain 
[22:54] <hggdh> heh
[22:54] <kus> It fills up all usable memory with all my useless Google junk 
[22:55] <kus> I mean yeah I should clean up my Google account but I am lazy 
[23:03] <valorie> Guest57550: have you filed a bug report?
[23:04] <valorie> `ubuntu-bug packagename` in the commandline from the computer that gets the problem
[23:04] <valorie> packagename will be synaptic or libinput *I think*
[23:05] <valorie> apt policy synaptic (or apt-cache policy) will tell you if that is installed
[23:06] <Guest57550> Well, the computer is out of commission :P
[23:06] <Guest57550> I can boot in recovery mode but if I try to enable networking it also starts Xorg
[23:07] <valorie> and?
[23:07] <Guest57550> and I can't type any more because I don't have libinput or networking :P
[23:07] <valorie> oh
[23:07] <Guest57550> so I can't reinstall it
[23:07] <valorie> hmmm
[23:07] <valorie> you should be able to reinstall.....
[23:07] <Guest57550> Yeah, I thought the package would be cached at least
[23:08] <Guest57550> but no dice
[23:08] <valorie> did you have problems before with this machine?
[23:08] <valorie> I don't recall anyone mentioning such a problem before
[23:09] <Guest57550> There's variations on it in the bug tracker already, some of which are quite old
[23:09] <Guest57550> It's a Thinkpad X1 Yoga 2018
[23:09] <valorie> strangeness
[23:09] <valorie> what happens when you try to reinstall?
[23:10] <Guest57550> I've forgotten the package name but I'm using 'apt install', and it tries to update the index
[23:10] <valorie> no, no, I mean, with a USB try a NEW install
[23:10] <valorie> maybe not of ubuntu, but perhaps something else that might have the driver you obv. need
[23:11] <valorie> did you have an Ubuntu install on that computer before?
[23:11] <Guest57550> well, I can reproduce the issue in NixOS
[23:11] <Guest57550> But that allegedly uses synaptics anyway
[23:11] <valorie> so, not an ubuntu problem, but a driver problem
[23:11] <Guest57550> And potentially power management problem >_<
[23:12] <valorie> my son used to buy new gaming laptops and have a heckuva time finding a distro that had suitable drivers
[23:12] <valorie> always different
[23:12] <valorie> mandriva, manjaro, ubuntu, arch
[23:12] <Guest57550> "Get a thinkpad" they said, "they are easier to use with linux", they said...
[23:13] <valorie> did you try it with a live session?
[23:13] <valorie> and again, did you already have linux installed on this laptop before, that was working
[23:13] <Guest57550> Yeah, the live session worked except I didn't notice the inability to resume. NixOS' previous release worked too
[23:14] <Guest57550> I'd like to get this issue into the tracker for the Kubuntu LTS release, but I'm not even sure which component is to blame :P
[23:15] <valorie> it's probably the kernel /driver and other than that I dunno
[23:15] <valorie> perhaps comment on one of those old bugs instead
[23:16] <valorie> and maybe try the next spin which will have a new kernel
[23:16] <valorie> I think