 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/3lnxkia9.png Nice picture! :)
[03:12] <ubptgbot> tempsikhopat was added by: tempsikhopat
 This is very good news isn't it :)
 @Ismaelbonato, I was pleased to see my screenshots there lol. I wonder how they made their way all the way to Purism 🙂
 @amolith, 👍
[04:48] <ubptgbot> hailm4n was added by: hailm4n
 @amolith, well done :)
[06:45] <AuroraAvenue> https://nomasters.io/posts/dumber-phone/
[07:59] <ubptgbot> lexirv was added by: lexirv
 isn't this a dead project ?
 Nope
 nah
 Welcome! UBports picked up development, and is going strong
 https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
[08:14] <ubptgbot> c0r3dump3d was added by: c0r3dump3d
 hmm , what apps I can run there ?
 @lexirv, see open-store.io
 I mean what about the closed source apps ? how it can be ported ?
 or I've to use alternatives ?
 Soon we hope to get running android apps
 With anbox it will be possible to run android apps
 see anbox.io
 please realize anbox will always be a "hack" - don't expect it to be exactly as on android
 @ixavier, does it run linux apps in the current time ?
 because utouch isn't android
 @rogieroudshoorn, ik , its linux
 @libremax, Boi
 @lexirv, It can but the experience varies as traditional linux apps are not optimized for mobile and you will need a magnifying glass and very accurate fingers to find them functional on phones
 @DanChapman, lol , yeah I can imagine that
 btw , is apt & snap included ?
 apt is there but it's not recommended to be used
 @lexirv, But if there is something like zooming in the screen it would be interesting tho
 if you want to use apt you can do so with libertine which installs and runs the debs from a chroot
 @DanChapman, kinda sandboxing ?
 the rootfs is readonly by default so you can't use apt directly on the phone unless you make it read/write. but that could mess with OTA updates, hence it not being recommended. And why libertine was created.
 @DanChapman, oh
 its just kinda making another layer  to get hand out of making the rootfs writable from the active access layer
 @DanChapman, how would it mess OTA updates? I thinkl only OTA updates will update your previous apt-get installs, but no influence the other way around, no?
 @DanChapman, [Edit] how would it mess OTA updates? I thinkl only OTA updates will override your previous apt-get installs, but no influence the other way around, no?
 @KrisJacewicz, Well an OTA update clobbering the apt database or adding a confliciting package that's a dependency for something you added is in my opinion messing with an OTA update as you are putting the system into an unknown state.
 @DanChapman, sure, in suchg a case definitely, but I thought it was not the case. I thought that OTA simply overrides the apt database completely, in a clean way, without leftovers. Isn't it so?
 I thought that the only persistent portion that remains after OTA is the userspace, and that apt database is not in it.
 I've not looked into the detail, but I understood a typical OTA to be some form of diff. Even if that currently replaces whole files it unreasonabme to expect it to stay that way.
 John McAleely explained the hazards quite well here https://askubuntu.com/a/775550
 @alan_griffiths, I think that the design based on read-only rootfs does justify it to remain a simple override, without any diff capability, though. But yeah, this is just an opinion, subjective stuff, I would like to definitely know what is the actual case right now. So far was 100% sure it was good old pure clean overri
[08:59] <ubptgbot> de. Extracting new image over the old one.
 @DanChapman, thanks, let's see
 @DanChapman, I just read and he confirmed what I thought was the case, it is a simple untaring process, and OTA just overrides the old rootfs. So the type of hazard that he talks about, I don't see it as a big hasard. It would require you to install some software into the userspace, that depends on things in the read-only
[09:01] <ubptgbot>  rootfs. That, to me, sounds like at worst case you can no longer use the application, unless you re-install the dependencies. It does not sound like it can break up the rootfs or OS base in any way.
 I think that he is overthinking the threat in his answer, although he is also making valid points.
 also, apt-get installs have no way, by design limitation, to install stuff into your home folder. WHen you apt-get install stuff then you are root user, and apt-get nor dpkg knows who did you sudo as. So they install stuff into rootfs, not userspace. So OTA will have only 1 influence on apt-ge tinstalled stuff: it will make it
[09:04] <ubptgbot> dissapear. Your home directory, at most, will have remainders in form of locally stored cache or config files.
 click survives OTA because it installs itself into the userspace. apt-get cannot do that.
 It doesn't make it dissapear it makes it forgotten. There's a difference 😉
 dpkg cannot do that
 @DanChapman, it gets whiped off from your rootfs and overriden. Like if you format a partition and put new stuff on it.
 off couyrse there are some possible scenarios, rather exotic ones, but I see no risk how these would potentially end you up with a broken OS. At most a link to an app that persisted, that does not work.
 or link works, but not the app. Some apps copy their own executabls into ~/.local/ somewhere, but it is rare practice, like for hings that users can re-build with different plugins/modules. It would not have a backward influence on the OS after OTA. At most it would no longer start or work properly.
 @KrisJacewicz, I don't think that's right. From what I understand of it untars and applies the change set *ontop* of the rootfs and if the apt records get overwritten anything you currently installed will be forgotten because apt no longer knows about it. But it doesn't get removed.
 @dohbee is that right? ^^
 An OTA download is smaller than a channel switch. That's not consistent with it being the full rootfs.
[09:16] <ubptgbot> <Georg Simon> @ixavier, Didn't help. I can easily install Fairphone Open using the same cable. (sudo sh flash-for-unix.sh)
[09:17] <ubptgbot> <Georg Simon> @YougoChats, Didn't help.
 @DanChapman, it interests me now, I would like to know what is the real case
 @alan_griffiths, yes your logic makes sense, but you aren't sure as well right?
 @Georg Simon, i'm assuming you also already have your phone in usb debug mode and tested adb devices in normal/recovery mode and fastboot devices in bootloader? if fastboot devices needs sudo the installer does too
 @Georg Simon, [Edit] i'm assuming you also already have your phone in usb debug mode and tested `adb devices` in normal/recovery mode and `fastboot devices` in bootloader mode? if `fastboot devices` needs `sudo` the installer does too
 @Ismaelbonato, ❤️
 @Georg Simon, [Edit] i'm assuming you also already have your phone in usb debug mode and tested `adb devices` in normal/recovery mode and `fastboot devices` in bootloader mode? if `fastboot devices` needs `sudo` the installer does too … fastboot mode looks the same as boot splash, might be confusing
 @DanChapman, "(...) So, in practice, some apt-get installs will largely add software in parallel to the existing files, so will not be much impacted by an OTA. However, one file set will certainly be impacted - apt's own record keeping (OTA's deliver the records used in construction of the ro filesystem). So your system w
[09:28] <ubptgbot> ill lose the knowledge of what is there, and what is not. (...)" … this sound like an important piece of information, but I don't understand this argument. I don't know what is the apt's own record keeping, do you guys know?
 i just interpret it that it has to do with apt-get upgrade, but not install
 @KrisJacewicz, It makes sense to optimize network load for OTAs, both for consumers and servers. From overhearing discussions I believe that OTAs are based on a diff and that's consistent with the behaviour I've seen. I've never been interested in the implementation of the diff.
 @alan_griffiths, fair enough, thanks for mentionning all this
 @KrisJacewicz, It has a GPU driver ?
 @Sconio, I think thatr Librem5 will be 100% supporting for open source drivers, but in reality I don't know
 @Sconio, [Edit] I think thatr Librem5 will be 100% supporting open source drivers, but in reality I don't know
 Can be used with ubuntu touch
 Gpu
 @Sconio, they just announced cooperation. not ready at all
 🤞🏼
[09:34] <ubptgbot> All_i_know was added by: All_i_know
 @Sconio, I think you are interested in achieving accelerated graphics in xmir under ARM, because of our conversations off the channel. Is that right? … If so I really won't be able to answer you. All I know is that xwayland is being mentionned as a possible replacement for xmir, when wayland compatibility lands.
 @KrisJacewicz, and then maybe also accelerated graphics can happen
 I know , just. If it is 100 % open the acceleration graph might work
 @Sconio, but accellerated graphics do work on UT natively, so the reason that they don't work in xmir, i think, is not a problem of a lack of driver. I recall old chat about this here in the group, and it had to do with some API translation, possibly mapping the order of arguments in the api calls, this discussion happene
[09:37] <ubptgbot> d here months ago
 Oh ok
 I'm looking forward to see the material statistic
 @KrisJacewicz, It was not confirmed for baseband module.
 @libremax, thanks, amazing how fast details like this can surface in this group ;)
 It is for this reason that there will have a switch physics for the purpose of controlling its operation
 @Sconio, Graphics acceleration is really down to Mir (and the graphics drivers ), not UT. You will get better information asking on the Mir forums: …     https://community.ubuntu.com/c/mir
 Mir not suported acceleration
 @Sconio, Not only, even with free drivers there may be problems sometimes and a physical switch get you safe everytimes
 @Sconio, Why do you think that?
 I don't think so, just I remember having to address this issue is to use kodi, and we replied that xmir does not support not the acceleration graph,
 Oh. You mean Xmir (not Mir).
 Welcome @All_i_know . Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Oups
 Sorry, yes xmir
 I m confus
 Let's start from the beginning: you're trying to use kodi on UT? … Kodi does have a Mir backend (but that needs enabling when building it.) it also has a Wayland backend, but you can't use that with the Mir version currently in UT.
 This is a question that I had asked Kris, if the use of Kodi could be done with ubuntu touch
 @alan_griffiths, I didn't know that kodi has mir backend, but if so, then @Sconio yes, you can have kodi on UT :D
 @KrisJacewicz, It won't for much longer, they're planning to drop now Mir supports Wayland.
 @alan_griffiths, @Sconio, hurry up ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, Cool !
[10:17] <ubptgbot> Павел Алексеев was added by: Павел Алексеев
[10:18] <ubptgbot> <Павел Алексеев> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/c0RJBvLs.png
 Hi
 @KrisJacewicz, With the method you proposed, I will get there
 🤙🏼
 @KrisJacewicz, [Edit] It won't for much longer, they're planning to drop it now Mir supports Wayland.
[10:44] <ubptgbot> yuchen_guo was added by: yuchen_guo
[11:11] <ubptgbot> Tarangok was added by: Tarangok
 @Fabian, Yeah.....
 @kristijantkalec, Not odd at all. Perfectly expected as history shows
 @YougoChats, Full circle magazine
[11:17] <ubptgbot> Soumitra Ghate was added by: Soumitra Ghate
 @lexirv, Yes. I am a ghost and these other people are bots
 @lexirv, we're all ghosts. whoooOoOh
[11:20] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> I am flashing phone using ubports installer , at the end , it tells to reboot into bootloader so I started fastboot mode but does nothing further , help please !
 Hi new folks! You should all go here especially if you are installing because there is a welcome install room https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
[11:23] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> Thank you
 usually have to press volume down and power
 to reboot into bootloader
[11:29] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> Yes I did open bootloader in the device , but installer did nothing further
 Did you try manually install ?
[11:30] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> No
 or automatic detection ?
[11:31] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> No
 if your device is not detected try to manualy select it
 if it doesn't work, use sudo to exexcute the installer
 [Edit] if it doesn't work, use sudo to execute the installer
 [Edit] if your device is not detected, try to manualy select it
[11:34] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> Tried manual selection , still giving same problem
[11:34] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> What is sudo?
 Commande to execute install with privilege
 man sudo to know more about it
 What OS do you use ?
[11:36] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> Windows 10
 Sudo is for GNU/linux 😄
[11:37] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> 😅OK
[11:38] <ubptgbot> vanyasem was added by: vanyasem
 @libremax, False
 You can install sudo in Windows
 It will run software as admin
 You can also use sudo in WSL
 I had never used windows in decades so...
 Thanks for attention
 @libremax, I use windows 10
 I know
 [Edit] I have never used windows in decades so...
[11:39] <ubptgbot> <Soumitra Ghate> I will try that
 @vanyasem, Anyway windows will be Linux before the end of the next decade
 You will be back to linux 😂
 @vanyasem, [Edit] Anyway windows will be based on Linux before the end of the next decade
 @wayneoutthere, is the cams issues fixed ?
 @wayneoutthere, [Edit] is the cam issue fixed ?
 wath cam issue ?
 For what device ?
 [Edit] Wath cam issue ?
 [Edit] What cam issue ?
 so I just got my slimport cable for the Nexus 5
 but I can't seem to get a cursor on screen or use the phone's touchscreen for a touchpad
 @vanyasem, You can also run gmail and skype on Ubuntu....   but.... Why? You can also look  out a jail cell at the world outside.  my position since 2009 is: If you care about freedom, why hang around in jail?
 @wayneoutthere, Slavery is freedom.
 Uh
 @jja2000, You will need a bt kb/mouse
 The touchscreen doesn't work to use as a pointer
 Yeah I found the git issue
 I wonder why it doesn't work
 @UniversalSuperBox, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
 @DanChapman basically right, yeah
[13:17] <ubptgbot> <Georg Simon> @YougoChats, In usb debug mode "adb devices" shows an empty "List of devices attached" both in normal and recovery mode. … In fastboot mode "sudo fastboot devices" gives "f99f644 fastboot"
 💡
 Fwd from YougoChats: do `lsusb`
 Fwd from YougoChats: you should get somthing like this: … ... … Bus 003 Device 034: ID 18d1:4ee5 Google Inc.  … ...
 Fwd from YougoChats: Add the vendor id to ~/.android/adb_usb.ini. … `echo 0x18d1 >> ~/.android/adb_usb.ini` … the 18d1 part could be different for you and is found in the lsusb results
 after that, adb devices should start working.
 @libremax, Definitely this is 1984 we live in.
 @wayneoutthere, Please direct your two minutes hate to the OT channel
 come one, come all into 1984
 Hello! I saw that there were no bug fixes during this period. Is Ubuntu 16.04 still far?
 during what period?
 Last weeks
 well, not all of the things that need to happen are filed as issues on github, if you're trying to judge progress by that list
 Ah OK
[14:05] <ubptgbot> apocarpio was added by: apocarpio
 At this moment how much is it usable?
[14:07] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> Looking at the source code for the click-review command, it seems to pull a list of supported frameworks from a [URL that doesnt exist anymore]("https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/api/click-framework/") … Is there any way for me to properly review my application before submission to the open-store?
 @dohbee, huh?  and what? and pardon me?  and bye bye
[14:08] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> installed through apt, which might be outdated
[14:09] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> ```click-reviewers-tools/vivid-updates,now 0.25.1 all [installed] …   tools to review click packages```
 it's outdated
[14:10] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> any documentation as to where the up to date version is?
 @dohbee, Epic
 Welcome @apocarpio !!! check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
 @Marco Sirabella, github.com/ubports/click-reviewers-tools i guess
[14:11] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> Tyvm
[14:16] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> unfortunately this repository has the same issue, https://github.com/ubports/click-reviewers-tools/blob/67aee8376b6d5e45defec05daa160930c342209c/clickreviews/frameworks.py#L20-L21
[14:16] <ubptgbot> <Marco Sirabella> But I'm going to look into the project it was forked from
 @Marco Sirabella, Please join https://t.me/UbuntuAppDevEN
 Hi all.  I don't know to whom to address this concern, but I have a student trying to get an app into the open store who is having a hell of a time trying to figure out how to do it.
 I've been staying out of this, since Marco is much smarter than I am and has a better shot techincally of figuring this out.
 But as a support, I wanted to express my concern.
 If a talented, dedicated, and hard working volunteer can't figure out how to contribute, how will this project suceed?
 Looks like he's gotten into the App Dev group to work on the problem with reviewing the click. And he's offering some solutions for making the process go smoother for others
 Yes, @UniversalSuperBox , he has.  I'm glad to see that. I just wanted to lend my voice to the suggestion that making this easier is really important.
 I'll stop whining now.  I just felt at this point I needed to put in a word.
 @KrisJacewicz, As far as I understand you can end up with a broken OS if you try to update using apt. Just installing some debs on the rootfs there is a low risk to break the OS (except the fact that you could fill your rootfs)
[16:24] <ubptgbot> Roma_P was added by: Roma_P
 @NikosChat, Well, there are no updates for 15.04 at this point anyway. So it's a somewhat pointless thing to do as well. As far as installing random apps, it depends. Some file types don't deal well when crossing filesystems (there are a lot of bind mout overlays to make UT work), and that will break things.
 Welcome @Roma_P!!! Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
[18:17] <ubptgbot> Pau Snow was added by: Pau Snow
 Welcome Pau!!! Check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you started, we have language groups available.
[19:30] <brrm> hi! I am about to install ubports to my fairphone2
[19:30] <brrm> should I use 15.04/stable or go for 16.04/devel?
 if you want a daily use phone, then 15.04/stable
 15.04; 16.04 isn't really for daily use yet
[19:31] <brrm> ok
 if you want to test things on a secondary device, 16.04 should be fine, but lots of things don't work right yet
[19:32] <brrm> if I take a backup with TWRP - is it save to Wipe the device?
[19:32] <brrm> it won't wipe the SD card?
[19:32] <brrm> s/save/safe
 the installer doesn't touch the external SD card, but i would recommend copying a backup to another system first
 also if you want to use an external SD card with UT, it might need to be formatted differently
 depending on what format the card currently is
[19:34] <brrm> dohbee: it is fat32, but I would prefer ext4.
 ok, fat32 will work fine. ext4 won't automount i think
[19:35] <brrm> ext3?
[19:37] <brrm> will ext3 automount? I don't like fat32. git annex considers this filesystem to be "crippled"
 no, only fat32 is automounted
[19:38] <brrm> but ubports is a linux os, isn't it? I can just edit /etc/fstab to let it be automounted?
[19:39] <brrm> and if I don't let the installer wipe the phone, what will it do? leave the android in case a want to restore it? or even let me dual boot?
 well it's not the same as a traditional linux install. i don't think you should be editing fstab (your changes may be overwritten in future by OTA updates)
 if the phone already has android, the device must be wiped
 no, you cannot dual boot
[19:40] <brrm> that is funny - why does it propose not to wipe then?
 i don't know if there's an open issue in ubpots github about the automounted filesystems issue, but i think that's something we should fix
 it's for if you already have ubuntu on the device, then you can flash a different channel/version with the installer, and keep your data
 but UT fully replaces android, so there is no such thing as not wiping android off, in terms of the installer
[19:44] <brrm> ok, I don't like android anyway
[19:50] <brrm> what I want to do with my phone is storing my mp3 collection in a git annex repo and sync this using ssh
[19:50] <brrm> on android this works quite bad
[19:50] <brrm> because the ssh server only has access to his own data directory
[19:51] <brrm> which means other apps only have read access
[19:51] <brrm> which is sufficient for playing the mp3, but not for e.g. editing id3-tags
[19:52] <brrm> but the worst thing is that the git annex repo is on fat32
 i'm not sure the way media (music, videos, etc) handling works currently on UT will leave you much happier, unfortunately
[19:53] <brrm> what do you mean? is there no player?
 there is
[19:55] <brrm> couldn't I just install vanilla music: https://f-droid.org/packages/ch.blinkenlights.android.vanilla/
 UT is not android, so no you can't just install android apps
 apps are also confined. they don't get read/write access everywhere
[19:56] <brrm> https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/android-apps-on-ubuntu-touch-with-anbox-77
[19:56] <brrm> what about anbox?
 anbox isn't part of UT yet, and doesn't work on all devices either
 but even if you install something in anbox, other things like confinement should still apply
 but there is a music player in UT already
 and it mostly works pretty great
 but i'm not sure how well it works with music on an external SD card, and i don't think it has tag editing
[20:11] <brrm> ok, I think I postpone the switch to ubports untill weekend
[20:11] <brrm> then I will have time enough to check out if it fits my needs
[20:11] <brrm> I didn't know anbox isn't ready yet
[20:12] <brrm> and I expected it to be a more linux like experience
[20:12] <brrm> like maemo was on my old N900
 About the /etc/fstab thing, I experienced some time ago that on my device changes were discarded at each reboot, so it was useless editing it.
 Yep, it's written on the fly at boot time.
 oh yeah, i forgot about that part too
 By something not so much unlike this, but with less documentation: https://github.com/Halium/initramfs-tools-halium/blob/halium/scripts/halium#L244
 Beautiful *and* terrifying
[20:18] <brrm> this is really *not* much linux like
 i really wish people would stop saying that
 It's an Ubuntu userland atop a Linux kernel
[20:19] <brrm> what do you expect dohbee - if I wanted a crippled linux on my phone I would stick with android
 But it's definitely not a desktop distro
 i expect people to stop making assumptions about what "linux" is
 If you think in those terms, you probably don't want Ubuntu Touch.
[20:21] <brrm> ok
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/1169/porting-halium-to-leeco-le-max2-aka-x2-x820
 @mayltonfnds, Awesome!! :D
[21:52] <ubptgbot> Олександр was added by: Олександр
 Welcome Олександр!!! Check this put for more about UBports https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 @jelkner, "By contributing and improving the thing you are pointing out" … We appreciate feedback, but we really, really appreciate fixes  :)
[23:53] <UniSuperBox> Test
 Okay good