[00:18] <waltman> yay!
[00:43] <swift110> hey all
[00:46] <waltman> I'm thinking I might wait a few days before I upgrade.
[09:50] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[15:14] <Pennth> One of these rounds I'll remember that you need the -d flag to do-release-upgrade even if going from semiannual to LTS
[15:23] <waltman> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_16.04_LTS_or_17.10 # OK, guess I'm waiting a bit.
[15:23] <waltman> I thought for prior releases it prompted me when the new release was available.
[15:33] <waltman> So as that page says, they're waiting a few days before they open up 17.10 to 18.04. I guess I can wait.
[15:33] <waltman> Let the early adopters find the bugs!
[15:34] <waltman> I already went through the switch back to gnome for 17.10, so hopefully that's the biggest change.
[15:38] <pleia2> yeah, they do try to land the big changes in the release before the LTS to work out the biggest bugs on the smaller community of people who use the 6 month releases
[15:40] <waltman> Nod. But I think I can wait a few more days for the bugs to get worked out.
[15:40] <waltman> Have you updated yet?
[15:45] <pleia2> no, I'm flying to Copenhagen tomorrow for a conference, history shows it's best not to upgrade 2 days before big int'l trip ;)
[15:46] <waltman> Q: When are you *not* 2 days befor a big int'l trip? :)
[15:46] <pleia2> it is a problem
[16:13] <Pennth> holy wtf? I'm already in the middle of an update!
[16:14] <Pennth> (from 17.10)
[16:14] <Pennth> Also, if you lock your GUI during the upgrade you may not be able to get back in, but you can still get into a plain shell and 'tail -f /var/log/dpkg.log' to monitor progress
[16:18] <Pennth> Think I'll switch the little stream to a fresh install of https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-bionic-final-release/ minimal because it really doesn't have space for an upgrade
[17:20] <waltman> Pennth: I think the issue is mainly in prompting you to do the upgrade
[17:21] <waltman> what's the "little stream"?
[17:23] <waltman> I think I'll wait at least until Pennth finishes updating :)
[17:28] <ChinnoDog> How do you submit ideas for Ubuntu release names? I found the wiki page but it is marked immutable.
[17:32] <waltman> C should be Crabby Crab
[17:32] <Pennth> I have a desktop again, have to do more testing after I finish my hoagie. :)
[17:33] <waltman> What kind of hoagie goes well with an ubuntu install?
[17:33] <Pennth> waltman, the 11" HP stream notebook, the blue one, that stopped being my daily carry when I got the i7
[17:33] <waltman> ah
[17:33] <Pennth> Also, a Wawa italian with pepperoni, spinach and tomato
[17:34] <waltman> a bold choice!
[17:34] <Pennth> ChinnoDog, I've seen contests/open recommendations announced on OMGUbuntu. IIRC, they happen about four months before the next release is due
[17:34] <waltman> Today I opted for the Wegmans oriental salad mix thingy that had been sitting in my fridge all week.
[17:35] <waltman> So there's still hope for Despicable Dingo?
[17:35] <Pennth> Any salad that sits more than a day in the fridge is a bold choice too
[17:36] <waltman> Well, it's all wrapped up. Its good-until date was May 2.
[17:36] <waltman> It was all cruchy cabbage stuff so I guess it keeps longer?
[17:36] <Pennth> Yeah, dingos are endangered, so for sure.
[17:37] <waltman> Deceitful Dodo?
[17:37] <Pennth> Can't already be extinct, or next one would be Crunchy Coelocanth
[17:39] <waltman> Coelacanths aren't extinct!
[17:39] <ChinnoDog> Yea. They are alive and kicking.
[17:39] <ChinnoDog> ... so to speak
[17:39] <Pennth> OIC. Since there are only two species of coelacanth and both are threatened, it is the most endangered order of animals in the world. The West Indian Ocean coelacanth is a critically endangered species.
[17:40] <Pennth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
[17:40] <Pennth> Well, I know my vote for 18.10 then :)
[17:40] <ChinnoDog> I bet there is room on pleia2's shelf for a stuffed coelacanth.
[17:41] <Pennth> Coelacanths were thought to have become extinct in the Late Cretaceous, around 66 million years ago, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa
[17:42] <waltman> I think they're just hard to find because they live in the deep ocean
[17:48] <ChinnoDog> Not sure how they can be rediscovered in 1938. I remember reading about the cooelacanth in dinosaur books when I was a kid.
[17:49] <Pennth> Like most things, thought missing or dead until found
[17:49] <pleia2> there is no contest or feedback for release names, that's all Mark
[17:50] <pleia2> the wiki page is just immutable if you aren't in the launchpad group that grants edit access
[17:50] <waltman> ChinnoDog: They knew about them from fossils and assumed they'd been dead for millions of years.
[17:51] <Pennth> So I guess the OMG Ubuntu pages were just for "whatchawant"
[17:51] <pleia2> (too much spam having it open like a proper wiki)
[17:51] <pleia2> Pennth: yeah, and there are wallpaper contests
[17:52] <ChinnoDog> waltman: My books were much more recent than 1938 though. The world must not have noticed they were still alive until much later.
[17:52] <waltman> It was pretty famous that they found them
[17:53] <Pennth> Well, I have 18.04 running, still with Unity and my 2x2 workspace switcher as before, but with the new files app
[17:54] <waltman> Wait, you still have a 2x2 switcher?
[17:54] <Pennth> totem opens pretty speedily but is using 4g memory :p
[17:54] <waltman> Did you have to install anything to get that?
[17:54] <waltman> I went from 2x2 to 1xn in the 17.10 update and I'm still a little unhappy about that.
[17:54] <Pennth> waltman, I somehow managed to keep unity without it getting zilla-stomped by gnome
[17:55] <waltman> huh!
[17:55] <Pennth> Yeah, been that way since I installed artful
[17:55] <waltman> My unity got trashed.
[17:55] <Pennth> s/4g memory/25% of cpu/
[18:06] <r00t^2> waltman: have you tried ctrl-alt-shift-dwn?
[18:06] <r00t^2> gnome3 by default uses dynamic virtual desktops
[18:07] <r00t^2> (ctrl-alt-up/dwn to switch between them)
[18:07] <waltman> what does ctrl-alt-shift-down do?
[18:09] <waltman> The problem with ctrl-alt-up/down is that it doesn't scale well beyond 2 or 3 desktops.
[18:11] <waltman> Also gnome likes to helpfully dynamically add and remove virtual desktops. If I have chrome on 2, close it, and leave that desktop, it moves desktops 3-n up to 2-n-1
[18:12] <r00t^2> i'd say it does; you can just hold down ctrl-alt and hit up/down to flip between them. but if you like having an overview, you can hit the special key (usually the "windows" key) and then you have a nice little preview on the right side
[18:13] <waltman> Bah. I know what my setup is. I'd like a faster way to switch between them.
[18:13] <waltman> And I'd like them to stay where I put them, dammit.
[18:13] <r00t^2> which you haven't specified what you'd like to *do*
[18:13] <r00t^2> but also,
[18:13] <r00t^2> you can set static virtual desktops with gnome-tweak-tools.
[18:13] <r00t^2> err, renamed to gnome-tweaks in newer releases, it seems
[18:14] <r00t^2> on arch, anyways
[18:14] <waltman> I typically have 1) terminal and other stuff, 2) chrome, 3) another terminal, 4) slack
[18:14] <r00t^2> yeah. you can set that to be static.
[18:14] <waltman> But then if I want to, say, run matlab on 5, I can't do that with static.
[18:15] <waltman> at least on 2x2 I could get from slack back to 1 in 2 steps instead of 3.
[18:15] <r00t^2> well, you can just increase the number of virtual desktops, then.
[18:15] <waltman> I went through all this when I installed 17.10. I'm used to its quirks. Doesn't mean I *like* them.
[18:16] <waltman> Yes, I know how it works, thanks.
[18:16] <waltman> Can it give me 2x2 again? It seemed not.
[18:16] <waltman> Can I switch to them by number like I can on macOS?
[18:16] <r00t^2> as for switching from like, the task bar or whatever it's called, that should be a bundled gnome extension
[18:16] <r00t^2> included as part of gnome
[18:17] <r00t^2> you can bind your own custom shortcuts.
[18:17] <waltman> I assume I need the mouse for that? Way less useful than keyboad control.
[18:17] <r00t^2> ^^^
[18:17] <r00t^2> https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/KeyboardShortcuts
[18:21] <waltman> Thanks. What's the Super key?
[18:22] <waltman> Ah, it seems to be my Mac Cmd key
[18:40] <Pennth> The trouble (imho but I'm not alone) is that the dynamic desktops are vertical-only
[18:41] <Pennth> Found my first glitch in 18.04. Bluetooth headphones connect but are not being used for sound, not listed in sound profile
[18:43] <waltman> yeah, the default behavior with dynamic desktops leaves a lot to be desired. I mean, it's great you can tweak it, but I wish they'd put more effort into making the default behavior less hateful.
[18:55] <jthan> "hateful?"
[18:57] <jthan> Pennth: I had the same issue on Arch with a recent update.  You might try connecting them before launching any applications after a fresh login, then launch spotify/firefox/whatever and see if they show up
[18:58] <jthan> I don't think it's Ubuntu specific, though
[20:02] <waltman> jthan: Well, hateful to *me* :)
[20:06] <Pennth> jthan, good to know. I'll do more testing when I get home from work
[20:07] <Pennth> And if you've been used to having 2x2 workspaces for 20 years, then suddenly going 1xN without even the benefit of atarispace is definitely a PITA
[20:08] <Pennth> for years I had (0,0) Job and browsing; (0,1) Music; (1,0) Programming; (1,1) Games.
[20:09] <waltman> also there are at least 2 different levels of hacking it -- ubuntu, gnome hacks, and I think some third deeper way
[20:10] <waltman> On my mac they go across, but it doesn't matter because I can easily switch between them with ctrl-1, ctrl-2, etc.