[00:00] <Unit193> '18.1~git1804050730.8cd58d~oibaf~x'
[00:00] <GridCube> interesting, i don't think i'm using any ppa right now
[00:00] <Unit193> `apt list | grep ed,loc`
[00:02] <GridCube> WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
[00:02] <Unit193> If that's all, seems you still have it installed.  `inxi -r`
[00:03] <GridCube> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qgrt7GQb5w/
[00:04] <GridCube> mmm it's there a way to reset the apt list?
[00:13] <Unit193> ...OK, that's strange.
[00:21] <GridCube> Unit193, apt says i've hold a bunch of stuff https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4tgbcXfJJG/
[00:21] <GridCube> or it did it for me
[00:22] <Unit193> 'ed,loc' is horrible short form of 'installed,local', so should have given you a list of every package you have that's installed but can no longer be downloaded from any repos.  apt-forktracer is a tool that's useful for finding packages not installed from the distro default repos.
[00:23] <Unit193> Clearly something should be returning from the former, since you have it installed but not PPAs.
[00:23] <Unit193> Additionally, you seem to have an xenial repo still enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list
[00:23] <GridCube> i can disable that 
[00:26] <GridCube> Unit193, ah, ed would be for "installed" and in spanish it says "instalado" 
[00:27]  * Unit193 forgot about that language bit...
[00:27] <Unit193> Clearly I'm only ever using it in English. :3
[00:28] <GridCube> Unit193, , https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/W3m4Jr5KHn/
[00:29] <GridCube> i see the xorg ones at the bottom, i have to uninstall those?
[00:30] <Unit193> No, `apt install $package/bionic`, I'd do them all in one go.
[00:37] <Unit193> (Some of those other packages are from PPAs, some aren't upgraded because held, and at least a couple were removed from the archives.)
[00:37] <GridCube> mmhm
[00:37] <GridCube> im doing them all manually
[00:37] <GridCube> it seems to be working
[00:38] <Unit193> upstart and xombrero are gone (though I have the latter in a PPA. :P ), boot-repair/etc are just from a PPA, variety looks like it was updated from a PPA, should update cleanly.
[00:40] <GridCube> well, i guess that upgrading the system for 3 different LTS does have a toll after all :P
[00:44] <Unit193> unit193@Sigma:~$  cat /var/log/installer/media-info
[00:44] <Unit193> Xubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110413.2)
[00:45] <GridCube> Xubuntu 15.10 "Wily Werewolf" - Release amd64 (20151021)
[00:45] <GridCube> :D
[00:45] <Unit193> Nah, that's not seen too many upgrades. ;)
[00:46] <GridCube> i think that in 15.10 i did a format install into a new drive
[00:47] <Unit193> (I'll also note that I never hung on to LTSes)
[00:47] <Unit193> Anyway, all good?
[00:47] <GridCube> i think so
[00:47] <Unit193> ...I had a half-complete cleaning guide.
[00:48] <Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/docs/system-cleaning.html OK, less than half complete.
[00:52] <GridCube> :D Todos los paquetes están actualizados.
[00:54] <Unit193> Heh, nice.  Any local packages remaining?
[00:55] <GridCube> a few
[00:56] <GridCube> brb rebooting
[02:22] <Spass> I want to report this bug with panel plugins loosing hover (visible here - https://youtu.be/UY4ZuxsPifw?t=15s ) because it really annoys me
[02:23] <Spass> I'm thinking about reporting it on xfce's bugzilla under xfce4-panel general
[02:23] <Spass> I previously reported it wrongly under the whisker menu plugin category and it was moved/ignored
[02:28] <Spass> but... I think that this issue may be related to something "above" the xfce4-panel, because I saw it occurring on Plank dock too (visible here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8qh4-wxxEZ7b3ZTZ0stb1VvdGM/view )
[02:30] <Spass> upon further investigation I see that this blinking issue appears only on top and left screen edge, there's no blinking when I move mouse cursor on the right and/or bottom edge
[02:31] <Spass> it's pretty old bug and it's in 18.04 too, so... I have a question for you - where I should report it?
[02:32] <Spass> is it GTK3 related? or maybe xfdesktop?
[05:52] <flocculant> bluesabre: us and lubuntu (probably studio) budgie, mate and ubuntu work. Didn't look at Kubuntu nor Kylin
[06:49] <Spass> meanwhile, I think that I found another bug, I can't move a panel plugin where I want, some plugins don't let me "drop it" between them. See here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgL1e757Vbc
[06:49] <Spass> is it known?
[06:53] <ali1234> Spass: because that is one big plugin
[06:54] <Spass> nope, those are 5 separate plugins
[06:56] <Spass> Notification Area, xfce4-notifyd, xfce4-indicator-plugin, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin, power-manager-plugin, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
[06:56] <Spass> as you can see on screen
[06:57] <Spass> and I can easily move that Clipman plugin between them using up/down arrows in the panel settings
[06:57] <Spass> but I can't move it using "Move" from context menu
[06:58] <ali1234> yes, you are right
[06:58] <ali1234> and i can reproduce it
[06:59] <ali1234> when moving a plugin, you can't move it immediately to the right of the plugin currently immediately to it's right
[07:01] <Spass> (not mentioning, again ;) those inconsistently sized icons, it looks very bad...)
[07:01] <ali1234> you know that video you posted yesterday, showing that whisker menu flickers?
[07:01] <ali1234> i would not be at all surprised if that is related
[07:02] <ali1234> eg because the mouseover area for whiskermenu is smaller than for the plugins which block move
[07:02] <Spass> that flickering is a bigger issue I think, and it's very strange
[07:02] <ali1234> they block move because their mouseover area extends beyond their area, covering the drop region
[07:03] <ali1234> with the theme i use you can see that they are visibly a different size
[07:03] <Spass> it affects other programs too, like Plank dock, just like there's something totally wrong with whole top and left screen edge
[07:03] <ali1234> that might be related to struts
[07:03] <Spass> right and bottom are ok, like I said - weird
[07:05] <Spass> I really want to submit this bug (at least that much I can do to help), but I want to do it right this time, because I was kinda ignored once already
[07:05] <ali1234> it wasn't because you did something wrong
[07:06] <ali1234> if you want bugs to get fixed you often have to chase the developers. sometimes literally for years
[07:06] <Spass> I wrongly assumed that it was only whisker Menu issue, now I did proper testing
[07:06] <Spass> I know something more about this
[07:07] <ali1234> yes it affects many plugins
[07:07] <Spass> some may say that these are small, cosmetic issues, but I don't think so, that kind of issues may left a really bad taste
[07:08] <ali1234> another piece of the puzzle is that if you use a different gtk theme, you can see that some plugins crop their own icons, where as others do not
[07:08] <Spass> Xubuntu is a diamond, no doubt about it, but it only needs a little bit polish
[07:08] <ali1234> theme does affect function with gtk
[07:09] <ali1234> eg if you mess up the theme (possibly by specifying custom theme inside the program code) then you can actually break the widget box layout, which can cause stuff like what you are seeing
[07:10] <ali1234> the flickering whisker menu thing triggered another bug with panel hiding too
[07:10] <ali1234> i am sure all of this stuff is related
[07:11] <ali1234> anyway
[07:11] <ali1234> you should report these bugs and keep adding new information as you find it
[07:11] <ali1234> this "bumps" the bug, making developers more likely to notice it
[07:12] <ali1234> and keep talking about it here too
[07:24] <Spass> I'll submit it for sure, but I really don't have a clue where yet :)
[07:30] <Spass> I will fight for the good looking and consistent panel icons also, because just look how beautiful they look on my 17.10 :P https://i.imgur.com/XzFoDD8.png
[07:31] <Spass> I made the panel slightly bigger on purpose to show that they stay small (22px)
[07:31] <Spass> on 18.04 they're all wonky :/
[10:11] <flocculant> bluesabre: I guess if we had orca then screen reader would work?
[10:12] <flocculant> would explain why it doesn't work on lubuntu as well 
[10:13] <bluesabre> that sounds correct
[10:13] <flocculant> morning :) didn't expect you to pop up yet lol
[10:13] <bluesabre> eh, you know how it is :)
[10:14] <flocculant> wonder why we don't have that :(
[10:14] <bluesabre> I think we used to
[10:14] <bluesabre> might have been due to dependency chain or maybe dropped because it carried too much gnome with it
[10:15] <flocculant> I'll look on a vm now
[10:15] <flocculant> and right - could well be
[10:16] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/YuNrOvf.png
[10:16] <flocculant> not much considering size of iso's now
[10:19] <bluesabre> yeah, that's pretty minimal
[10:19] <bluesabre> was likely pulled in by something else before
[10:20] <flocculant> well I'd argue we had that back then :)
[10:20] <flocculant> yea - entirely possible 
[10:34] <flocculant> !team | there is a draft for our new qa/tester page on a pad - thanks to Leigh and willem 
[10:34] <flocculant> https://pad.ubuntu.com/qa-webpage
[10:35] <flocculant> if you can look there - and comment 
[10:35] <flocculant> all part of trying to grab new people 
[10:39] <flocculant> on that note - we did see new people arrive during the last bits of testing 
[10:42] <flocculant> seems my no network on suspend isn't just me \o/
[10:44] <Spass> ok, I'm trying to organize my testing a bit - https://goo.gl/Jmf8UG
[10:49] <flocculant> bluesabre: updated release note to older bug on that suspend/network issue - which is apparently a bad kernel commit
[10:50] <bluesabre> flocculant: aha, nice
[10:50] <flocculant> not really \o/ - just pleased it wasn't yet another just me thing :D
[11:04] <bluesabre> Started dumping 18.10 ideas here: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/xubuntu-18.10, feel free to add things you'd like to consider
[11:04] <Spass> I think that I found small issue / unsuspected behaviour in Catfish also
[11:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok
[11:05] <bluesabre> Spass: let's hear it :)
[11:06] <Spass> but not sure it's a Catfish issue or Thanar's action "search" issue
[11:07] <Spass> ok, so Thunar, I'm in /usr/share/icons/ folder and I RMB click on elementary-xfce-dark folder and I click Search...
[11:07] <Spass> Catfish window appears, I'm searching for "uget"
[11:08] <flocculant> bluesabre: when Spass has finished I got a parole thing ...
[11:08] <flocculant> tough I think I know the reason
[11:09] <Spass> and I'm getting results from /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/
[11:09] <bluesabre> Cool
[11:09] <Spass> which is my main system on a second disk, mounted
[11:10] <Spass> but why I get those results? I was searching /usr/share/icons/ not  /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/
[11:10] <flocculant> I just get no file found
[11:11] <Spass> yes, because there isn't any "uget" file there
[11:11] <Spass> this is why I was surprised why I get any results
[11:12] <Spass> turns out it searched my other disk also :/
[11:12] <flocculant> Spass: are you sure that you're seacrhing in the right folder?
[11:12] <Spass> 100% sure, yes
[11:12] <bluesabre> Thunar tends to be folder-sensitive with actions... right-clicking on a folder "elementary-xfce-dark" suggests to Thunar that you want to do things to/in that folder
[11:13] <Spass> I will try searching outside thunar, I'll open Catfish and will navigate there
[11:14] <Spass> yup, when I open catfish and navigate there it works fine
[11:14] <Spass> ok, so no big deal then, but still slightly confusing
[11:15] <flocculant> bluesabre: Parole - add files to playlist, if I try to add multiple entries - it does the same revert to one line only (same as deleting multiple things in catfish) - is that the gtk3 issue we discussed?
[11:16] <flocculant> oh - and I added some stuffs to the wiki :p
[11:16] <Spass> any way to make this thunar action more specific? "catfish --path=%f"
[11:16] <Spass> to avoid this issue?
[11:16] <bluesabre> flocculant: file a bug for that, sounds wrong
[11:16] <flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke will do it now
[11:17] <flocculant> Spass: my find search action IS that
[11:17] <bluesabre> Spass: I think it's by design. If you were to right click in the white space (not on a folder) it would search the folder you're in instead of the folder you've clicked on
[11:18] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/XxUBhXN.png
[11:18] <Spass> nope, it's the same when I'm in that folder and click on empty space
[11:18] <bluesabre> Spass: similarly, you can add a Ctrl+F shortcut to the custom action to search that current folder
[11:19] <bluesabre> (Kinda surprised we don't already have that)
[11:19] <Spass> seems like there's something wrong with that --path=%f
[11:19] <flocculant> bluesabre: pretty sure I didn't edit the find action
[11:19] <flocculant> and now parole works ...
[11:19] <Spass> but ok, I'll leave that issue aside, it was just confusing to see results from other folder...
[11:20] <Spass> feels not right
[11:20] <Spass> "catfish --path=%f" was default, I didn't change anything
[11:21] <bluesabre> Yeah, it's Thunar's action handler forwarding the path to the app.
[11:21] <bluesabre> That looks to be correct
[11:21] <bluesabre> The action is "Find in this folder", if you click on a folder, that's the folder you're finding in
[11:22] <bluesabre> It makes sense if you know a folder has thousands of files and you won't be browsing it (or wanting to create thousands of thumbnails)
[11:23] <bluesabre> flocculant: so you fixed it :D
[11:23] <Spass> exactly, "Find in this folder", so why I get results from other folder also, I know the name of the folder is the same, but it's a different folder on a different partition :)
[11:23] <flocculant> bluesabre: aah got it now - I assume that parole doesn't support drag'n'drop :)
[11:23] <flocculant> which was what I did 
[11:24] <bluesabre> Spass: oh I see... is that a symbolic link or something?
[11:24] <flocculant> it just drags whichever file was last selected
[11:24] <Spass> no, there's no symbolic link there
[11:25] <Spass> "/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/" doesn't contain anything with "uget" in it's name, no file, no folder, no symbolic link, nothing, results window should be empty
[11:26] <bluesabre> Feel free to file a bug report, seems confusing enough
[11:26] <Spass> but for some strange reason I get results from "/mnt/Xubuntu/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark/" where yes, I put those files there myself
[11:26] <bluesabre> oh
[11:26] <bluesabre> I think I understand now
[11:27] <bluesabre> I think you may have mounted your drive twice (by accident?)
[11:27] <bluesabre> I'm really confused by it
[11:27] <bluesabre> :D
[11:27] <Spass> it treats "/mnt/Xubuntu/usr/..." and "usr/..." like it was the same path
[11:28] <bluesabre> right, that's bizarre
[11:28] <Spass> and /usr/... is not /mnt/Xubuntu/usr/... :D
[11:28] <bluesabre> It shouldn't do that... but it's not doing anything special with paths, it just walks them
[11:29] <Spass> yeah, like I tell you before, confusing
[11:29] <Spass> things you can find while wild testing...
[11:29] <Spass> *told
[11:30] <bluesabre> Alrighty, gotta start my day
[11:30] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:30] <bluesabre> :)
[11:32] <flocculant> have a good one too :)
[11:34] <Spass> https://i.imgur.com/O1j34uk.jpg
[11:36] <bluesabre> Can you also screenshot a right-click -> Properties of the elementary-xfce-dark folder
[11:36] <Spass> not sure should I file a Thunar or a Catfish bug...
[11:36] <bluesabre> Just so there's no additional questions :)
[11:36] <flocculant> I hve a question there too :)
[11:37] <bluesabre> Spass: might be able to view the process in the task mananger to see what's getting launched
[11:37] <flocculant> in Catfish - top left - drop down - is it actually searching the right folder there?
[11:40] <Spass> in that drop down it only shows "elementary-xfce-dark" no tooltip with the whole path or anything like that
[11:41] <Spass> and when I click it it shows me a list with standard Pictures, Videos etc folders to choose
[11:41] <Spass> I can test one more thing, I'll put some "uget" file in that folder too, and will know if it searches both of them
[11:45] <Spass> yup, it shows me that file too, so I get results from both paths... and I don't want that, I clicked specific folder to search in Thunar, not "all folders with that name on every partition I have" :)
[11:46] <Spass> really weird, so that command "catfish --path=%f" is just broken
[11:46] <Spass> well, another thing to add to my google docs...
[12:00] <Spass> I consider myself a YouTuber now ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdaHX8mecUg
[12:02] <flocculant> oh dear ... :D
[12:02] <flocculant> they've got you now ;)
[12:11] <Spass> eh, I think I'm done testing for today, I added my contact info to the doc, just in case - https://goo.gl/Jmf8UG
[17:10] <ochosi> ali1234: that panel bug with moving plugins (it's about mixing internals and externals) is fixed in 4.13/git master btw, so not really worth spending time on
[17:10] <ochosi> plus it has been around forever
[17:33] <ali1234> which means gtk3 right?
[18:00] <ochosi> yeah
[18:00] <ochosi> maybe the fix could be backported, not sure
[18:00] <ochosi> (cavalier fixed it)
[19:34] <Spass> in that case I'm sorry for reporting that, I didn't know it was fixed already
[19:46] <krytarik> No need to be sorry for not taking into account changes that haven't made it into the distro yet.
[20:04] <ochosi> Spass: no problem at all
[20:18] <ochosi> Unit193: added something to the agenda for our next / first 18.10 meeting. just so you're motivated to schedule and run the meeting ;)
[23:47] <Unit193> ochosi: Oh crap, that's me.