[14:27] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I never paid attention, but I'd put it in System since, for instance, GNOME has a Settings app as does Plasma. That said, at least in Plasma, one could make a KCM (KDE Control Module) that appears in Settings and links to -controls.
[14:28] <ErichEickmeyer> This is something that openSUSE does wiith YaST.
[15:50] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I think all DEs have some way of dealing with a *desktop file that shows a Category "Settings"
[16:17] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I see it showing up in Preferences in LXQt, but I can't find a settings category in Xfce. Could it be that each DE implements it a different way? As we've experienced, not all DEs conform to the opendesktop standard.
[16:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Also seeing it showing up in LXQt's configuration center. Also to note: LXQt respects our menus.
[16:54] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: preferences would be the same as settings
[16:55] <OvenWerks> In most DEs, the settings menu also acts as a menu that shows any app that adds itself to tyhe settings category
[16:56] <OvenWerks> it may also have a set of built in applets for a number of things.
[17:01] <OvenWerks> Those built in apps are actually rather a hassle becasue they cannot be used aside from their main menu app.
[17:02] <OvenWerks> this means that if we like a certain settings applet in gnome we can't use it in KDE without bringing in the whole gnome preferences app.
[17:15] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: thinking about themes. At least for the gnome/gtk based DEs, I think choosing the theme separate from DE would be wise. Making sure it is a theme that works both with gtk2 and gtk3 would be a good idea.
[17:28] <OvenWerks> In my quick look through themes, it apears that the theme is broken into parts in some ways. It is possible to use one theme for whats inside the window and another for what the window decorations look like.
[17:30] <OvenWerks> My personal view is that things should be functional first. Most of the newer themes do quite well at this within the window but fail when it comes to the window decorations.
[17:31] <OvenWerks> The two main things that fail are A) handles that are easy to grab for window sizing. B) focused window differentiation.
[17:33] <OvenWerks> Window handles in many themes are just too small to grab, often only one pixel wide. Great for optimising large window size and welcome when only one full size window is being used as in general desktop use, but useless for developing which is when media creation is.
[17:37] <OvenWerks> Being able to see which window is focused without having to click then use is my other gripe... maybe less so for others. Whatever our main theme is, something that uses a really standout colour for active windows/boxes/whatever would be nice. We used to have one where the window title was ubuntustudio blue when focused.
[17:38] <SlidingHorn> OvenWerks: did the group decide on KDE?  
[17:38] <OvenWerks> SlidingHorn: no
[17:38] <OvenWerks> the group has not decided anything
[17:38]  * SlidingHorn was kinda hoping for openbox
[17:38] <OvenWerks> I suspect that is not going to happen
[17:39] <OvenWerks> I don't mind openbox, but the amount of work needed to make openbox look like it was meant to go together is likely more than we have people for.
[17:40] <SlidingHorn> That's something I might actually be capable of!  lol
[17:40] <OvenWerks> I think that whatever we default to should look fully formed and whole or profesional, not tacked together
[17:41] <ErichEickmeyer>    tbh, SlidingHorn, Openbox isn't even on the radar as it's not a DE but a Window Manager.
[17:42] <OvenWerks> Think about use in a radio station or potrate shop where customers see what the proprieter is using
[17:42] <OvenWerks> *portrait
[17:43] <SlidingHorn> my backing theory was essentially picking something ultra light so the DE/WM stays out of the way and allows these powerful applications the sytem's full resources
[17:44] <SlidingHorn> I think XFCE does a decent job of that, but if US was going away from it, I figured I'd offer that as a suggestion...
[17:45] <OvenWerks> Right now in my ubuntustudio 18.04 (I switched yesterday) I am using the Moheli theme which provides good sized window handles and the Numix "Style" (though Numix blue is ok) which is still a generally dark theme, except that highlited windows and items are bright orange
[17:47] <OvenWerks> The Phasex styles are a bit much ;)
[17:47] <OvenWerks> (try them and see)
[17:48] <ErichEickmeyer> The only truly resource-heavy DE right now is GNOME. Even Plasma uses far fewer resources. I use Plasma when I do audio production, no issues whatsoever. So, lightweight at this point is moot unless you're doing audio production with a 10-year-old computer, which would be woefully inadequate to begin with.
[17:49] <OvenWerks> I think you are right and so far as that goes, anyone with at least an i3 class computer will not really even notice gnome3
[17:49] <ErichEickmeyer> Exactly.
[17:50] <OvenWerks> so that is already almost 10 years back
[17:50] <OvenWerks> (or will be by the time of next LTS)
[17:50] <ErichEickmeyer> Except modern i3s are much more robust. That said, I still wouldn't use an i3 for live audio production.
[17:50] <OvenWerks> i5 rules for audio.
[17:51] <ErichEickmeyer> I used to use an 8-year-old i5, but I've since upgraded to a 7th generation AMD A10. It's rock solid.
[17:53] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, same goes for photography. The slowest response I've ever had with adjusting RAW was with a celeron. A Core2Duo blew it out of the water, and with modern processors it's even better.
[17:57] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: in terms of themes, check out Adapta and Arc since they're "all the rage" as the kids say.
[17:57]  * SlidingHorn really loves Arc Darker
[17:57] <ErichEickmeyer> For LXQt and Plasma, the default Breeze (which has a GTK variant) is really nice too.
[17:58] <ErichEickmeyer> Btw, LXQt can use Kwin or Xfwm.
[17:58] <ErichEickmeyer> Gotta go feed my son. bbl
[18:52]  * ErichEickmeyer wonders if he should even bother responding to Ralf... he just likes to be a gatekeeper, and he doesn't even use Ubuntu Studio
[18:54] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: o/
[18:54] <eylul> hi :)
[18:54] <SlidingHorn> howdy :)
[18:54] <eylul> I keep forgetting to restart znc server :)
[18:55] <ErichEickmeyer> d'oh! :)
[18:55] <eylul> :)
[18:56] <ErichEickmeyer> I run through a Quassel Core on a Digital Ocean droplet. So easy.
[18:57] <eylul> :)
[18:58] <eylul> yeah I also use a vps, but once in a while it needs a restart now and then, I just don't use IRC enough to remember. :)
[18:58] <eylul> I should just have a cron job set up.
[18:59] <ErichEickmeyer> Ah, yes. I've been contemplating a Telegram group myself and figuring out how to bridge to here like other flavors are doing.
[18:59] <ErichEickmeyer> Looks like we've got, eylul, SlidingHorn, and myself... I know OvenWerks is somewhere lurking about, and captain_tux_ can't be here.
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, shall we get started?
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> (btw, still need to figure out how to use meetingology)
[19:00] <eylul> *takes a seat*
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> lol
[19:00] <OvenWerks> ok
[19:01] <eylul> I'll chat with you on it after the meeting if you have time.
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Perfect. :)
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, I'm not bringing over old business since 18.04 is out the door, and seems to be pretty good. The only issue was the confusion about LTS which I addressed in a blog post.
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> As far as looking forward, how is the progress on the website revamp?
[19:02] <eylul> well I did find some of the images we were considering. They do need a bit of extra work, looking at them. 
[19:03] <eylul> the main issue through is getting the theme installed or finalizing the theme and getting it installed I believe.
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> *nods*
[19:03] <eylul> basically we need to have one person to take this over.
[19:03] <eylul> because personally I am a bit fried on that topic
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: You were interested. Feel like taking a shot? eylul, would you be able to get him started?
[19:04] <eylul> if they are interested. sure.
[19:04] <SlidingHorn> I'd be willing to try...is this essentially making a WP theem?
[19:04] <SlidingHorn> theme*
[19:04] <eylul> it is there
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> We have the theme, it just needs to be implemented and such. Got that test link, eylul?
[19:05] <eylul> like 90% of the work. I can put the images up, but it is mostly uploading the theme to right dev bzr, and then asking Canonical side to reflect the changes to live. and yeah one sec
[19:05] <eylul> http://ubuntustudio.azbulutlu.org/
[19:05] <eylul> the images will need to change
[19:05] <eylul> fyi
[19:06] <SlidingHorn> I'll look at it today to see how everything works etc.  
[19:06] <OvenWerks> DL link/name needs to change too.
[19:06] <eylul> I'll get them done before next meeting
[19:06] <eylul> oh the content is about 2 years out of date
[19:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Perfect. And, yes, OvenWerks, it's a bit dated, but that's not hard to fix.
[19:06] <eylul> but the theme is separate from content :)
[19:06] <SlidingHorn> eylul: is there a way to contact you if I have questions?  (should I just use the -devel mailing list?)
[19:07] <eylul> yes. email is the best way as I do check it
[19:07] <ErichEickmeyer> The content automatically morphs to the theme. One of the beauties of WordPress.
[19:07] <eylul> mastodon is another one, but email is the best really
[19:07] <eylul> devel mailing list is also a good solution as that way everyone can chime in/help
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> I like that idea.
[19:08] <SlidingHorn> eylul: I'll email - but for reference, my mastodon is @slidinghorn@tuxspace.net
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> I'll leave that to you guys to discuss. Sounds like we've got a handle on it.
[19:09] <eylul> (my main is @eylul@mastodon.art)
[19:09]  * ErichEickmeyer has yet to try mastodon
[19:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, shall we move on to the next item?
[19:09]  * eylul has to yet create the @ubuntustudio account
[19:09] <eylul> *nods*
[19:10] <SlidingHorn> I can do that today if youd like eylul 
[19:10] <OvenWerks> I have one but always forget to send from it...
[19:10] <eylul> I was going to, mostly trying to figure out which node is best. ;)
[19:11] <eylul> ovenWerks: :))
[19:11] <eylul> actually let me just create one at .art. >.>
[19:11] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. This is a question of whether or not to drop 32-bit support (as in the ISO and ubuntustudio- packages). Ubuntu proper has dropped, Ubuntu Budgie and Ubuntu MATE have both dropped 32-bit. For our use case, and with the software we include, I don't see any reason to continue 32-bit ISOs.
[19:11] <ErichEickmeyer> Lubuntu is also considering it.
[19:12] <OvenWerks> that is a surprise...
[19:12] <OvenWerks> I would think lubuntu would hang on to 32bit
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> I'm thinking in terms of our userbase, chances are most have moved on to 64-bit unless they're running something ancient.
[19:13] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I agree, but talking to tsimonq2, they're looking into it.
[19:13] <krytarik> eylul: Fwiw, your test instance is also quite a bit out of date wrt the theme, and it's actually here: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website
[19:13]  * ErichEickmeyer sees a wild krytarik appearing.
[19:14] <ErichEickmeyer> krytarik: o/
[19:14] <eylul> ohhh thanks krytarik
[19:14]  * SlidingHorn throws a pokeball @ krytarik 
[19:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Gotta catch 'em all.
[19:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, does anybody have any strong feelings one way or the other for 32-bit?
[19:15] <OvenWerks> The only problem I see with dropping 32bit is the usecase of lugging an older laptop around for recording concerts... but in that case an old version (no inet connect) and more latency (generic kernel) are acceptable.
[19:15] <OvenWerks> in otherwords I do not see that use case as a show stopper
[19:16] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Chances are if you're working a concert you've got something a little zippier, in my experience.
[19:17] <ErichEickmeyer> So, if nobody has any further input, shall I formally request to the release team to drop 32-bit support for Ubuntu Studio?
[19:17] <SlidingHorn> no objection here
[19:17] <OvenWerks> ok
[19:17] <eylul> no objection
[19:17] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. I'll make that request.
[19:18] <OvenWerks> as a last comment on it, there are distros that specialize in "giving new life to old machines" none of them start with ubuntu as a base.
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Lubuntu, but that's not really our user base.
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> Next: Desktop Environments. Uh... I had a wild hair just a bit ago. What if we become the only official flavor to use Cinnamon?
[19:19] <eylul> why?
[19:19] <OvenWerks> what is cinnamon?
[19:20] <OvenWerks> (aside from spicy)
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome 3 that Linux Mint started, and is now a full-flledged Destop Environment, almost a GTK3 version of Xfce in feel.
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> It's in the official repos.
[19:20] <OvenWerks> is cinamon available in the ubuntu repos?
[19:20] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes.
[19:21] <OvenWerks> is there a one package install for it?
[19:21] <OvenWerks> (meta package)
[19:21] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes. I'll get the name for you.
[19:22] <ErichEickmeyer> cinnamon-desktop-environment
[19:22] <ErichEickmeyer> Note that it doesn't pull-in a Display Manager or plymouth theme since it's not tied to a flavor.
[19:23] <ErichEickmeyer> Although, it might pull-in LightDM, which wouldn't be a change for us whatsoever.
[19:23] <OvenWerks> I don't think that is a problem just now.
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> The mint team have worked their tails off to keep it from being as resource intensive as GNOME, so there's that as well.
[19:24] <OvenWerks> so far as DE goes it seems we have pretty much ruled out gnome3 based stuff like vanilla or gnome session
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Not entirely, but I think the outcry from the community has been pretty telling.
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> That said, I would like to do a survey.
[19:25] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: I can throw a straw poll up on the subreddit
[19:25] <OvenWerks> so we are at this point considering xfce, plasma, mate, budgie?, lxqt and cinnamon
[19:26] <OvenWerks> does that sum up where things have gone?
[19:26] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: Before you do that (you read my mind), I was going to write a post on the main website presenting the reasons, and describing each environment in our use case.
[19:26] <eylul> ovenwerks: not sure lxqt was mentioned up to this point but otherwise that sounds correct. :)
[19:26] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: sounds good...ping me whenever that's up
[19:26] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I think I'd like to see results of the survey before we rule-out anything.
[19:27] <OvenWerks> eylul: someone suggested it was looking much better than lxde and should be checked out.
[19:27] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: I've been mentioning LXQt. :)
[19:27] <eylul> ah
[19:27] <eylul> :)
[19:27] <ErichEickmeyer> LXDE is, at this point, no longer being developed. The entire project has become LXQt.
[19:27] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: the reason we nixed vanilla was that we can't ship with a menu.
[19:28] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's true, but if one were to install a menu extension it would automatically take categories into effect.
[19:28] <ErichEickmeyer> But, we'd have to leave that to the user.
[19:29] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: for a new user, trying to find ones way around Studio without a menu would be troublsome, someone wanting to apply Studio metas over top of vanilla/session would have no problem.
[19:29] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. Should we leave it out of the survey?
[19:30] <OvenWerks> I think so.
[19:30] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. SlidingHorn, eylul, krytarik, thoughts?
[19:31] <eylul> I think survey is a good idea
[19:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. SlidingHorn, I'll work with you on this.
[19:32]  * SlidingHorn thumbs up
[19:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, that new wallpaper that eylul made should definitely be included (and perhaps the default?) for 18.10. What do you say we hold a contest for wallpaper inclusion later on?
[19:33] <OvenWerks> it would be nice to have a web page with a list of DEs and a place for comments about each.
[19:34] <SlidingHorn> ErichEickmeyer: where can I see that? 
[19:34] <eylul> do we have energy to do this? is it worth the time it will take? *obligatory questions*
[19:34] <eylul> (this for the wallpaper contest)
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, we could have submissions and then have a special meeting to vote on the submissions. Xubuntu does it all the time, and Ubuntu GNOME used to.
[19:35] <ErichEickmeyer> It'd be cool to showcase artwork peoople are making with Ubuntu Studio.
[19:35] <OvenWerks> survey should be made for theme too maybe. though I would almost like to see us have a short list of themes we ship and use one default from a survey.
[19:36] <SlidingHorn> Theming would be something I'd probably enjoy playing with
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Any theme we choose will adapt to the DE, so I think that should be later.
[19:37] <SlidingHorn> agreed - wallpaper itself could have an influence also
[19:37] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> what happens with a theme (gtk2/3) when used with plasma/lxqt?
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Most themes have a Qt/GTK variant. Also, LXQt can use Kwin or Xfwm, so there's that.
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Maybe I should rephrase that: the quality themes have corresponding variants.
[19:39] <ErichEickmeyer> That said, in my experience, theming issues with GTK vs Qt is a thing of the past as they can both adapt to each other.
[19:39] <OvenWerks> the reason I ask is that so far, the various DEs have nothing we can't work with. The themes have been the weak points for me in all cases
[19:39] <ErichEickmeyer> Most of the time, Qt apps in a GTK environment will default to the GTK theme anymore.
[19:39] <OvenWerks> cool.
[19:40] <krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: Btw, wrt your statement on LXDE..: https://blog.lxde.org/
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> Especially if they're Qt5. Qt4 had an issue with this, but that was easily solved with Qt4-config.
[19:41] <ErichEickmeyer> Intersting, krytarik. Years ago they were talking about merging. I guess they merged then forked?
[19:42] <krytarik> Some of the devs simply stuck to working on the GTK+ variant instead.
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> Ah. I see.
[19:42] <OvenWerks> I didn't think there were that many...
[19:43] <krytarik> Tbh, there aren't so many on LXQt either. >_>
[19:43] <krytarik> People have already started proclaiming it stale too. :P
[19:43] <OvenWerks> that was what I meant I didn't think there were enough devs to split between two things.
[19:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, that wraps up the agenda I had since we've been talking about themes throughout. The wallpaper contest idea can be tabled for now and something to think about.
[19:44] <krytarik> OvenWerks: Yeah, certainly looks like.
[19:44] <OvenWerks> I am not sure what about the site you posted makes it look  like lxde is continuing
[19:44] <OvenWerks> lxde will be supported for the length of the lts is all.
[19:45] <krytarik> Did you not see the blog posts on new component versions?
[19:45] <OvenWerks> yes but for 18.04 it seems.
[19:46] <SlidingHorn> do we have any updates on the topic of pulling in mentors?
[19:46] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn: I have yet to have those conversations. A lot of networking is being done right now in terms of those connections.
[19:46] <krytarik> OvenWerks: I'm not sure why you are mangling an upstream project with a distro here fwiw.
[19:47] <ErichEickmeyer> Agreed w/ krytarik. LXDE/Qt != Lubuntu
[19:47] <SlidingHorn> another question - how much actual packaging work falls upon this particular group?  
[19:48] <OvenWerks> just the things called ubuntustudio-*
[19:48] <OvenWerks> (at this point)
[19:48] <SlidingHorn> ok
[19:48] <SlidingHorn> That's something I want to learn/do
[19:48] <OvenWerks> we have in the past done lowlatency kernel
[19:49] <OvenWerks>  and backports of applications for LTS but it has not happened in years
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, my last question: should we even bother responding to Ralf? He seems to like being a gatekeeper that doesn't even run Ubuntu Studio just so in his mind he doesn't have to change his workflow of "helping new users."
[19:50]  * SlidingHorn is not aware of this issue
[19:50] <OvenWerks> Many people have added his email to ignore
[19:50] <OvenWerks> (also in LAU)
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> Good to know I'm not the only one annoyed by his antix.
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> *antics
[19:51] <krytarik> LOL :D
[19:51] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, anything else to discuss?
[19:52] <OvenWerks> someone did a graph relating LAU mail list activity to ralph posts and found that lau mailing list usage always dipped with ralf usage
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> Hahaha!
[19:52] <krytarik> And yes, he shouldn't be taken too seriously - he is in fact know for interjects like this.
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay. Well, shall we adjourn this meeting? I feel like we've been fairly productive discussing ideas. I think our next step will be that post/survey, and we'll go from there.
[19:53] <ErichEickmeyer> Also the website.
[19:54] <eylul> by the way, I did install the test area as a temporary solution re the website
[19:54] <eylul> if anyone has a better solution for test environment for website. or staging area.
[19:54] <eylul> feel free to take the lead on it. *is not very good at setting things like git at the moment*
[19:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh, that's another thing: we've got to migrate from bzr to git. Just remembered that.
[19:55] <eylul> right!
[19:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Came down from the release team.
[19:55] <eylul> its a good change. not many people know bzr
[19:55] <eylul> but people know git. 
[19:55] <OvenWerks> Has that become a _must_ now?
[19:55] <krytarik> Well, seeds will be done by them at least though.
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: From what I read, it's a must.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> ok
[19:56] <OvenWerks> does that mean launchpad will do git?
[19:56] <OvenWerks> is there a page on conversion?
[19:56] <krytarik> And no, we don't have to migrate all our sources to Git just yet.
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Idk. I'd have to check the email more. There is a page on conversion, and I'll post it in the ML.
[19:57] <eylul> (on a more lighthearted note this just happened: https://mastodon.art/@Curator)
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh cool, eylul!
[19:57] <SlidingHorn> :D
[19:58] <eylul> wrong link. but
[19:58] <eylul> https://mastodon.art/@Curator/99978453487420442
[19:58] <SlidingHorn> We picked up what you were putting down :P
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> very happy to see that. :)
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, it's been almost an hour and I do have to get to work early today to finish a project. Anything else?
[19:59] <SlidingHorn> Nothing pressing here
[19:59]  * OvenWerks is ok with where we are
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: If you could just PM me some instructions on meetingology, that should be okay.
[19:59] <eylul> alright will do so
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> In the mean time, let's have a good week, I'll post the notes later. :)
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> *meeting adjorned*
[20:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Gotta go! Bye everyone!
[20:01] <krytarik> ErichEickmeyer: Have a nice day! :)
[20:01] <eylul> be well everyone. 
[20:02] <eylul> btw slidinghorn since krytarik here is the one who did also put a lot of work on the code side of the theme.
[20:04] <eylul> and clearly remembers better than I do, where things are with it. 
[20:04] <krytarik> I would think the commit log of the linked theme branch kind of indicates this, yes. >_>
[20:07] <krytarik> Btw, in context of trying again to get this solved, I recently talked to knome (parent theme maintainer) in order to finally get the remaining issues with that fixed too (simple typos and such..)
[22:29] <OvenWerks> budgie looks like vanilla with a menu... or maybe session with a menu.
[22:34] <OvenWerks> budgie blocks alt? (I don't seem to be able to use alt in irssi to move between channels)
[22:35] <krytarik> Might be captured by the terminals menu accels.
[22:36] <krytarik> Solution: Hide the menu! :P
[22:36]  * OvenWerks is wondering how to do that
[22:37] <OvenWerks> I was thinking tilix was kind of a nice terminal.... but if it steals keystrokes it ges kind of useless
[22:38] <OvenWerks> reboot
[22:45] <OvenWerks> wow, all the apps in my menu vanished!
[22:45] <krytarik> What an unusual thing to happen.. :P
[22:46] <OvenWerks> software is updating... probably something to do with that
[22:57] <OvenWerks> install some Studio stuff...
[22:59] <OvenWerks> menu config file is the same broken gnome file... system setting override user setting rather than the other way around
[23:26] <OvenWerks> what? which package we provide needs lib wine?
[23:27] <OvenWerks> And thats just audio
[23:41] <OvenWerks> Yup, every time the menu detects a new desktop file it seems to reload and the menu's items all vanish for a bit.
[23:55] <OvenWerks> have to install gnome-tweaks for focus follows mouse
[23:57] <OvenWerks> lmms forces wine install Yuck!
[23:58] <krytarik> Ah yes, that was it..