[00:00] <OvenWerks> one of the problems with a wine install I have experienced in the past is that some of my video stuff was unistalled. I think it was when I was using an nvidia card with prop. drivers
[00:01] <OvenWerks> I don't know if this is still the case, but if so that would be an issue for heavy graphics users
[00:02] <OvenWerks> It seems to me I had to uninstall reinstall to fix it after removing wine.
[00:18] <OvenWerks> budgie comes with 4 workspaces, but there is nowhere to change that... or access them. I was able to add a switcher after a while.
[00:20] <OvenWerks> Ah, after the workspace switcher is active it is possible to add or remove workspaces. This seems like a strange way to do things. If there is no WS switcher then only one WS should be enabled. Someone looking for workspaces enough will add the switcher which will allow adding another WS.
[00:23] <krytarik> So that's just a matter of a default setting then.
[00:35] <OvenWerks> yes, budgie seems fine if someone wants to use it with STudio but the menu makes it less than ideal as default
[00:40] <OvenWerks> downloading cinnamon
[00:44] <OvenWerks> wow it downloads a lot of stuff beyond just the DE... like firefox?
[00:44] <krytarik> Let's see!
[00:45] <OvenWerks> (budgie comes with chromium)
[00:46] <krytarik> What package are you installing exactly then?
[00:46] <krytarik> https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/cinnamon-desktop-environment - hellooo!
[00:47] <OvenWerks> cinnamon-desktop-environment
[00:47] <OvenWerks> I am not particularly upset so much as surprised
[00:50] <OvenWerks> that page says FF or chromium, it should have skipped ff I think
[00:51] <krytarik> https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/cinnamon - I would just go with this then, if any DE is already installed.
[00:51] <OvenWerks> too late now :)
[00:52] <krytarik> Well, it's actually "chromium-browser" though.
[00:52] <OvenWerks> Ah, that makes sense
[00:52] <OvenWerks> The depends are wrong then.
[00:52] <OvenWerks> cinnamon uses mate themes
[00:57] <krytarik> Ah fun, that's literally true.
[01:00] <OvenWerks> That is weird, chromium was installed as the default but ff is what opens...
[01:06] <krytarik> Last in wins!
[01:43] <OvenWerks> Cinnamon doesn't...
[01:44] <krytarik> Avid DE testers!.. :D
[01:45] <OvenWerks> I do like the background chooser, it offers the right directories
[01:49] <OvenWerks> Fire fox must be restarted to show a new theme
[02:07] <OvenWerks> xfce is looking nicer all the time...
[02:08] <OvenWerks> budgie looks like there are things a new theme will not change.
[16:55] <OvenWerks> Calf plugins are a problem in 18.04. It seems we can have either the calf lv1 plugins or the calf lv2 plugins but not both :P
[16:56] <OvenWerks> If both are installed the host crashes when using one of them.
[16:57] <OvenWerks> However, LMMS requires the LV1 version (ladspa) but the nice GUI front ends are a part of the LV2 version.
[16:58] <OvenWerks> The lv2 version GUI has other problems... mostly they have chosen GTK as the toolkit.
[16:59] <OvenWerks> The easiest fix would be to remove the lv2 version from our seeds and fixing the two packages so that one precludes the other.
[17:03] <krytarik> eylul: Please refrain from putting (particularly the wallpaper style..) images in the WordPress theme branch (master) if they aren't referred to by the latter itself.  Like I said though, I don't exactly remember anymore how the theme combined (or not..) with the wallpaper style images was supposed to work in the current iteration of it and how it looked then.
[17:06] <krytarik> I think the idea was to upload the wallpaper images independently from the theme using the WP media manager and then referring to them using the Simple CSS plugin we also requested to be installed.
[17:08] <krytarik> This would make us not rely on Canonical IS should we wish to update the wallpapers at some point.
[17:19] <krytarik> In either case, with or without those wallpapers, the theme currently in Git would already be a whole of an improvement to the stale one currently deployed.
[18:38] <eylul> Krytarik its not wallpaper they actually are the backgrounds. as for it I thought last situation was that we couldn't get those plugins in?
[18:39] <eylul> besides I could swear there was an assets folder somewhere for them
[18:41] <krytarik> Yes, 'assets' is the other branch in the repo.
[18:42] <eylul> alright that's where they will go then.
[18:42] <eylul> but honestly if we do have the time to finalize and agree, we can also bake them into the theme. main issue last time was that we had images that had issues and we knew we wanted to replace them
[18:45] <krytarik> Well, I'd rather like the base theme lean and without those anyway.
[18:46] <eylul> that's fair.
[18:47] <eylul> we might also be able to create custom image slots directly in the theme
[18:48] <eylul> I mean the 2017 wordpress default theme has something similar in it
[21:55] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: The calf themes are also out of date. 0.90.0 was released back in November. I am working on packaging the new version. Afaik, LV1 support was dropped in favor of LV2.
[23:24] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: so what does lmms do then? it seems lmms depends on the ladspa version of calf...
[23:25] <OvenWerks> It also seems lmms is in trouble dev wise... falktx is talking of effectively forking it and converting to to use lv2 :)
[23:27] <ErichEickmeyer> I think that's why calf has been dropping it.
[23:28] <OvenWerks> lmms should not depend on wine for vst, it should be able to deal with lxvst without. Wine is great software, but I don't really think any distro/iso should include wine.
[23:28] <ErichEickmeyer> iirc, ladspa is in trouble too since nearly everyone has moved to lv2 or vst, but I could be wrong.
[23:29] <ErichEickmeyer> And, yes, I agree. That said, though, there are a lot more VST plugins for Windows than there are Linux, unfortunately.
[23:29] <ErichEickmeyer> Waves plugins, for instance.
[23:29] <OvenWerks> there are a few people who are hanging onto ladspa with both hands dragging their feet heals stuck in hard.
[23:29] <ErichEickmeyer> LOL
[23:29] <ErichEickmeyer> That analogy gave me a funny mental picture.
[23:30] <OvenWerks> Male for one and Fons as I recall
[23:31] <ErichEickmeyer> I admit, those don't ring a bell.
[23:31] <OvenWerks> Same with dssi. I hear someone is actually working on a dssi v2
[23:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes, I saw something about that. Possibly FalkTX himself?
[23:32] <OvenWerks> male is the guy doing all the nonstuff and Fons is the author of any of the zita- software
[23:32] <ErichEickmeyer> OH yes. Now I'm familiar.
[23:33] <OvenWerks> Both are of good quality and I would like to see non-mixer support LV2
[23:33] <ErichEickmeyer> I would LOVE to see non-mixer support LV2. I'm a pretty avid calf user.
[23:33] <OvenWerks> :P Calf either works for you or causes trouble.
[23:34] <OvenWerks> Calf has two problem, it uses GTK for it's GUI and the DSP has trouble.
[23:35] <ErichEickmeyer> I've definitely had my share of issues. But, I've never had issues with calf running inside Ardour. And that right there sums up the majority of my workflow.
[23:35] <OvenWerks> A plugin should be compiled sataticly and that is very hard to do with gtk
[23:36] <ErichEickmeyer> I've had Ardour crash on my when ladspa plugins are even present lately. Not sure which is the culpret.
[23:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Which plugin, that is.
[23:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Haven't had time to investigate.
[23:37] <OvenWerks> It seems that calf uses the same function names for both their lv1 and lv2 plugins but they are not the same they do different things and have different number of aruments
[23:37] <OvenWerks> there is another set that is bad too. I don't remember which ones though
[23:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Could it be because the lv1 code isn't maintained?
[23:38] <ErichEickmeyer> (just spitballing here)
[23:38] <OvenWerks> possibly. I don't think we or anyone else has really looked through them to see if it is possible to just drop some of the lv1 packages.
[23:39] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably worth investigating, but not a priority. Maybe a 19.04 thing.
[23:39] <OvenWerks> So far as I know the steve harris package is ok.
[23:40] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, the harris packages are working fine. Most of those are just ports, I haven't seen anything new from him in ages.
[23:41] <OvenWerks> the amb plugins should be ok and there is nothing in lv2 like them.
[23:41] <ErichEickmeyer> ..yet. :P
[23:41] <OvenWerks> Nobody has even worked on them. nonmixer is the only thing that provides a good gui for them
[23:43] <ErichEickmeyer> Really too bad, but somewhat expected. I feel as though a lot of people (including my co-worker) has gotten locked-in to Waves, and the FOSS plugins have gone by the wayside with several notable exceptions.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> things like zam-plugins should be repackaged probably though he does it right and they are (when he does it) static. but to include 4 kinds of plugin in one package?
[23:44] <OvenWerks> zam uses his own gui tk
[23:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably smart on his part for functionality, but maintaining a tk has to be rough.
[23:45] <OvenWerks> there is a swh-lv2 package, I was wrong.
[23:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, that's the port I was talking about.
[23:46] <ErichEickmeyer> Still haven't seen anything new from swh.
[23:46] <ErichEickmeyer> In a very long time.
[23:46] <OvenWerks> most good plugin devs do their own toolkit or use fltk/nontk
[23:46] <ErichEickmeyer> Just the ports.
[23:46] <ErichEickmeyer> I've gotta take-off. Gotta get my son home to sleep, he has school in the morning.
[23:47] <OvenWerks> ok
[23:47] <ErichEickmeyer> Talk later. :)