[01:04]  * OvenWerks is now trying plasma, notices that it did not have an ugly orange boot screen
[01:14] <OvenWerks> The default theme is the best default theme I have used yet.
[02:10] <OvenWerks> Wow, that was odd. synaptic normally makes a dialog to ask about RT for jackd... this time it did not, I had to type yes into synaptics details
[02:37] <OvenWerks> -controls is set to build for cosmic
[02:47] <krytarik> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+recipe/ubuntustudio-controls-daily - then you must have disabled it again.
[02:53] <krytarik> Nvm, I guess you never enabled it, and just did a one-time manual request.
[02:58] <OvenWerks> we added bionic but not cosmic
[02:59] <krytarik> Well, it didn't exist yet when I updated it last..
[03:01] <OvenWerks> right
[03:04] <OvenWerks> krytarik: just installed the ubuntostudio-audio meta... when I installed -controls,using apt apt is telling me that all the stuff from that meta is no longer required and I can remove them with autoremove :P
[03:04] <OvenWerks> anyway, I will do a login and see where things go.
[03:19] <OvenWerks> to be perfectly honest, I am sure I could have force installed the bionic version with no ill effects.
[03:23] <OvenWerks> That controls is not as up to date as on my disk. I think.
[03:24] <krytarik> Pretty sure it isn't, yes - because Ross reverted stuff earlier.
[03:25] <OvenWerks> No because I haven't pushed yet :)
[03:25] <krytarik> Dooooh!
[03:25] <OvenWerks> Most of it works, but the cpu governor and Boost on/off don't get set at boot.
[03:27] <krytarik> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+recipe/ubuntustudio-controls-daily/+edit - here, click dis, and enable Comics!
[03:30] <OvenWerks> Quite honestly, plasma has so far been the best out of the box experience for audio
[03:31] <OvenWerks> Even the audio controler is much better than it used to be.
[03:32] <OvenWerks> As for the window stacking... I don't know how to tell what is right :P
[03:43] <OvenWerks> Thats wierd, I installed ubuntustudio-audio in plasma with synaptic... everything installs fine. then I use apt to install the latest -controls... it shows all the apps in -audio as "no longer needed and can be removed...
[03:44] <OvenWerks> I then used apt to reinstall -audio and it installs about 5 packages that require similar packages to be removed and everything is now fine.
[03:44] <OvenWerks> I think it is in the order -audio tried to install things
[03:45] <OvenWerks> (or synaptic tried to install things)
[04:35] <OvenWerks> Hmm, I managed to crash plasma
[14:28] <OvenWerks> Apparently the trick to get plasma to do the right thing with Ardour is: http://manual.ardour.org/ardour-configuration/system-specific-setup/kde-plasma-5/
[14:29] <OvenWerks> I end up with a file ~/.config/kwinrulesrc which has:
[14:29] <OvenWerks> [1]
[14:29] <OvenWerks> Description=Settings for Ardour
[14:29] <OvenWerks> above=true
[14:29] <OvenWerks> aboverule=2
[14:29] <OvenWerks> types=288
[14:29] <OvenWerks> wmclass=Ardour
[14:29] <OvenWerks> wmclasscomplete=false
[14:29] <OvenWerks> wmclassmatch=2
[14:32] <OvenWerks> in it.
[14:32] <OvenWerks> ls
[14:33]  * OvenWerks wants focus follows mind...
[14:39] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: That solution presented by Ardour should be scriptable (plasma has decent UI scripting support). Think we could make a package with a script that does that by default as part of an "ubuntustudio-plasma-ardour-fix" thing?
[14:40] <ErichEickmeyer> Oh and this guy made an awesome wallpaper: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1907210685957047&set=pcb.10155494658970509&type=3&theater&ifg=1
[14:40] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: if it is in ~/.config it should be addable to /etc/xdg/ where kwin seems to keep it's system settings
[14:41] <OvenWerks> The problem is knowing what the file name should be
[14:42] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, but I'm thinking for people installing _after_ installing Plasma. Making a default setting at install time is one thing, but don't we want to offer both, i.e. the ability for US to be an add-on?
[14:42] <OvenWerks> The plasma dev's attitude stinks: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172615#c26
[14:43] <OvenWerks> The end comment is that gimp is usable as a "one window" application anyway so won't fix :P
[14:44] <OvenWerks> this is someone who has never used a workflow where one window is not the best solution
[14:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Uh... that's a bug from the 4.x days of Kwin.
[14:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Probably long gone.
[14:46] <OvenWerks> I would imagine 5.0 if it has the same problem for Ardour would require the same fix. The atitude remains
[14:50] <OvenWerks> We will probably have to add a like part for gimp.
[15:01] <ErichEickmeyer> I just played around with the mult-window in GIMP 2.8, and yes, when bringing up the main window of GIMP it kept the other windows below any other window. So, same problem as Ardour, but I don't think it's a bug in Kwin so much as Kwin is just not designed for how Ardour and GIMP have made their windows. The workaround would be a win if it's something we can script for our users.
[15:06] <OvenWerks> Right
[15:08] <OvenWerks> I am wondering if instead of looking for "Ardour" in the window tile we can look for everything :P or do we have to do this for each application that uses a tools window?
[15:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Or, really, the ones that matter: GIMP and Ardour.
[15:09] <ErichEickmeyer> I don't know of any other non-Qt apps that use mutiple windows so regularily.
[15:09] <OvenWerks> none of the other paint programs use extra windows?
[15:09] <ErichEickmeyer> It seems to handle most other apps well.
[15:10] <ErichEickmeyer> MyPaint is single window, as is Krita.
[15:11] <OvenWerks> it would be very easy to script or even add a file to /etc/.skel... they hate that though
[15:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, I wouldn't add to .skel, otherwise we could be looking at a rejected package. It really should be scripted.
[15:13] <ErichEickmeyer> You *could* even add something to -controls if it detects it's launched in Kwin.
[15:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Like a button or checkbox: "Workaround for Kwin use in Ardour and GIMP"
[15:14] <OvenWerks> For the size of the file... it could be added regaurdless  :)
[15:17] <ErichEickmeyer> The only problem I'm having with Plasma is my computer's inability to wake from sleep. I need to further investigate, but it seems to be isolated.
[15:25] <OvenWerks> I tend to forget about such things :)
[15:26] <OvenWerks> But I know many/most people expect that to just work. I know jack has trouble with sleep waking too.
[15:26] <OvenWerks> The default on a laptop is sleep when lid closed
[18:04] <OvenWerks> anyone who is using kde or has been for a few years: has there been a lot of change every cycle or just continued movement?
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just continued movement. They seem to be adding more than changing, except when, for Plasma 5.12, they did a TON of optimization which resulted in a lower memory footprint, processor usage, and startup time.
[19:03] <OvenWerks> That is what I thought. 
[19:03] <OvenWerks> I have not installed kdesince 14.04 I think. so it seems a big difference to me
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, 14.04 was still Plasma 4. Everything is Plasma 5 now.
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Which was a huge change, but a welcome one.
[19:40] <OvenWerks> :)
[19:41] <OvenWerks> I used kde as my desktop for a number of years way back when I was using slackware before I got Studio
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Honestly, we could customize our defaults for Plasma to be identical to what we have in Xfce now in terms of layout.
[19:48] <OvenWerks> I just did :)
[19:48] <OvenWerks> well I did pretty muc before I booted back to Studio
[19:49] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: however, I think if we choose another DE we should try to make the best use of the DE rather than make it the same as before.
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> I understand, but easing transition should also be a priority. We could keep the default Breeze theme, change the background, change the "start" button to our logo, and move the panel to the top. That is all that would really need to be done.
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> At that point, it's identical, but with the functionality of Plasma.
[19:59] <OvenWerks> The default kubuntu theme is better than the breeze theme
[20:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Uh... the default Kubuntu theme IS the breeze theme. Workspace is Breeze Dark, and window color & borders are set to Breeze.
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> I wouldn't bother with Numix at all (our current default theme)
[20:03] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: it would seem that way but when I switched from kubuntu to breze it changed
[20:03] <OvenWerks> maybe I missed something
[20:04] <OvenWerks> I am back in xfce again so I can't check
[20:09] <OvenWerks> but yes, we could make those few changes. I like the panel at the top because my desk is cluttered and I sometimes can't see the bottom of the screen
[20:21] <ErichEickmeyer> I think you were looking at the "Workspace Styles" which is basically a combination of different settings themed into one. The Kubuntu theme is Breeze Dark workspace and Breeze window borders and colors. The Breeze theme is Breeze workspace (not dark) but otherwise same as Kubuntu. Then there's Breeze Dark, which is Breeze Dark everywhere.
[20:22] <OvenWerks> that could be. Theme naming is not very inuitive.
[20:23] <OvenWerks> or to put it another way, the group of settings that make up the desktop look is confusing