[05:14] <EriC^^> morning all
[05:25] <Bashing-om> WB EriC^^ :)
[05:56] <EriC^^> thanks Bashing-om :)
[06:02] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Good to have ya back ,., good help is so hard to come by :P
[06:02] <EriC^^> :P
[06:21] <ducasse> good morning
[06:29] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Ahhh .. the morning crew is arriving :)
[06:31] <ducasse> hi Bashing-om, how have you been? still going well with the non-smoking?
[06:41] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I had hoped by now to be at least down to the 4 hits .. but NOooooo. still at 6 at 2 hours or so :( Nasty habit !
[06:48] <Bashing-om> ducasse: The good is that when I leave the house, I do not carry my smoking with me and I do not get stressed out if I am away for more than the 2 hours :D
[06:49] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, you can do it. Do not give up.
[06:49] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i'm impressed you're still going :) well done, keep it up and you'll get there
[06:49] <ducasse> hi JimBuntu
[06:49] <ducasse> all well this morning?
[06:49] <JimBuntu> hi ducasse . Good morning to you and to Luna.
[06:50] <Bashing-om> ducasse: ya gotta want to ! ,, and the rest is will power .
[06:51] <Bashing-om> ducasse: sadly .. I like to smoke - just because  I need to does not mean I want to :(
[06:52] <ducasse> Bashing-om: exactly the same here, i'm under doctor's orders to quit, but i just don't want to. makes it difficult to build up motivation.
[06:53] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, I worked in tobacco for years... so did my wife, that's where I met her (work related). I quit smoking accidentally... I tried vaping as a new way to add to my tobacco use,,, wound up not wanting cigarettes within a week, It has been this way for about 5 years now.
[06:54] <EriC^^> do you still vape?
[06:55] <JimBuntu> I do still vape. ( I don't consider that smoking)
[06:56] <Bashing-om> JimBuntu: I have tried all the diversions .. and though I have bad COPD I still want my pipe .
[06:57] <EriC^^> JimBuntu: i watched infinity chamber, nice movie
[06:57] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, Ah, you use a pipe. I did too, much harder to break than cigarettes. I will say, they make special vape equipment for pipe smokers. I have some and it is different from normal.
[06:57] <EriC^^> i feel like it could have been way 'huger' if it had like a production stuff kinda thing going
[06:58] <JimBuntu> EriC^^, +9000. I am watching that again this weekend, already planned it. I doubt it will be as good as the first time, but I don't mind.
[06:58] <EriC^^> there's a movie that reminded me of it a little, it's totally different but has similar concept 'source code'
[06:59] <JimBuntu> I *think* I have seen that move too,need to check
[06:59] <EriC^^> it's about a guy who has to relive the last 8 minutes of somebody's life over and over til he finds out who is trying to bomb the train
[06:59] <JimBuntu> Oh, yes... I liked that movie!
[07:00] <JimBuntu> He winds up figuring out how to stay alive in the 'alternate' reality
[07:00] <EriC^^> there's an old movie i just reminded of.. hmm let me see the name
[07:00] <EriC^^> 'The jacket'
[07:01] <JimBuntu> 'The Jacket' has Kris Kristofferson ... basically assured to be good, in my book.
[07:04] <EriC^> JimBuntu: have you seen the jacket? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366627/
[07:05] <JimBuntu> I don't think so. Since it was mentioned, it's now on my list.
[07:05] <EriC^> it's very good, it's about a soldier who comes back from war, and he wounds up by mistake in some mental ward where they're making experiments by putting people in those chambers where you see and hear nothing for long periods
[07:06] <EriC^> and he goes on a bunch of stuff in time and stuff like that, it's very good, the lead actor is adrien body
[07:06] <JimBuntu> Sensory deprivation, yup, sounds interesting.
[07:07] <EriC^> soundtrack is pretty amazing too, very soothing
[07:07] <JimBuntu> Soundtracks make all the difference. Have you seen "Drive" (2011) ?
[07:07] <EriC^> nope i dont think so
[07:08] <EriC^> insta-downloading :D
[07:08] <JimBuntu> That one is really good too, in my book. Stars Ryan Gosling, before he was big and famous
[07:08] <EriC^> looks good and ryan gosling so good actor
[07:09] <JimBuntu> It's basically a drawn out version of an Aesops Fable ( Toad and the scorpion)
[07:09] <JimBuntu> Although, I would say it's told in a way that even Aesop would adore.
[07:10] <EriC^> aha
[07:12] <JimBuntu> I find that I am drawn to the retelling of the old stories, don't even have to be that old...
[07:14] <EriC^> you mean like true stories
[07:14] <EriC^> ?
[07:17] <JimBuntu> Well, I mainly mean 'the classics'. Mostly, the stories that were once told my mouth only, eventually written down... the kind of stuff that a grandparent tells to their grandchildren at bed time.
[07:17] <EriC^> ah i see
[07:17] <EriC^> can you give an example?
[07:19] <JimBuntu> A toad is walking by a river, notices a scorpion. They begin to discuss the weather, The Toad says goodbye and declares it is going to the other side of the river... the scorpion asks the toad if it will help him.
[07:19] <JimBuntu> The scorpion tells the toad that it too would like to cross the river.
[07:20] <JimBuntu> The toad says "No. You are a scorpion, you will sting me!".
[07:20] <JimBuntu> The scorpion tells the toad, that if it lets it ride on the toads back, to the other side of the river, then it would surely not sting the toad.
[07:21] <JimBuntu> The toad thinks about this and agrees... while crossing the river, the two talk of many things... at some point the toad feels the sharp pain of being stung.
[07:22] <JimBuntu> As they are sinking, due to the sting... the toad turnds it's head a bit to look at the scorpion and asks "Why?".
[07:22] <JimBuntu> The scorpion replies as it only knows how... "Because, I am a scorpion, my friend."
[07:22] <JimBuntu> ^^ very short version
[07:23] <JimBuntu> Once the toad begins to die, they both sink into the water. All is lost.
[07:24] <ducasse> those fables are excellent, been a while since i read them.
[07:24] <JimBuntu> I have an old copy in print. They are the things religions are made from.
[07:24] <EriC^> interesting
[07:25] <EriC^> i dont agree with it, but it's interesting
[07:25] <EriC^> i think i've heard it before as a child or something
[07:26] <EriC^> the premise is that people dont change? that's the moral of the story?
[07:26] <JimBuntu> It's odd, how different we are today. I have read these stories to my children. The children are more stuck on all kinds of small details than they are on the 'big picture'. I figure it's something that requires a certain amount of experience to understand. That is OK. I will keep reading them, until they understand the true meanings.
[07:27] <JimBuntu> EriC^, it requires interpreting, and while there are many interpretations, I don't think there is a 'right' or 'wrong' answer.
[07:28] <EriC^> hmm, to me it seemed like he's saying 'i did this because i'm a scorpion' it means that it's his nature and he doesnt change
[07:28] <EriC^> whether what he did is 'bad' or 'good' is a whole other debate
[07:28] <JimBuntu> The way I take it, the scorpion is a predator and a killer. It is meant to kill things, and most know this. It's in it's nature. To ask it to not kill, is an abomination of the natural order.
[07:29] <EriC^> but i dont agree, i think the scorpion could befriend the toad and at least not sting him since they are cooperating
[07:29] <EriC^> lions tigers and bears have known to become friends (all 3 at once even)
[07:30] <JimBuntu> I agree EriC^ and in reality this is how things work, we resist our natural calling, for self-benefit.
[07:30] <ducasse> this is a fable, you goy to take it as such.
[07:30] <ducasse> *got
[07:30] <JimBuntu> I think the point of the story isn't about this, it's about knowing that if you are asking nature (or a person/etc) to change, be prepared for them not to.
[07:31] <JimBuntu> In the print version, the toad and the scorpion dwell on if the scorpion might sting the toad... and the scorpion always re-assures they it will not.
[07:32] <EriC^> but that's just propagating fear and prejudice and generalization and ill knowledge
[07:33] <JimBuntu> "prejudice and generalization and ill knowledge" like I said,... this is the stuff religions are made of.
[07:33] <JimBuntu> lol
[07:34] <EriC^> yup exactly :D
[07:34] <JimBuntu> These fables are meant to teach lessons, not to be taken literally. The point is, learn from mistakes, don't expect others to change... even if your life is at risk, Do for others, despite the risk,
[07:35] <JimBuntu> My family has a saying, "Those who can..., MUST, for those that can't."
[07:35] <EriC^> that's kind of opposite
[07:36] <EriC^> that's a nice saying
[07:37] <EriC^> so do good with others despite the risk, but dont expect people to change cause you cant control what they do
[07:37] <JimBuntu> Thanks, it's a lot better than the previous family motto... that was basically, "Enjoy the beautiful prairie"
[07:38] <JimBuntu> Yes, help others, while not expecting them to appreciate it or to not attack you
[07:39] <EriC^> but doesn't it suck to be the toad sinking in the water after getting stung?
[07:39] <Bashing-om> JimBuntu: ^^ sounds like support :)
[07:39] <JimBuntu> Do "good", simply to do so, despite any risks.
[07:40] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, lol, yes, it does sound like volunteer support.
[07:40] <EriC^> assuming i'm helping someone online, and he needs my ssh login to be helped, and he's done some naughty stuff, i should still help him?
[07:40] <EriC^> by giving my ssh login and then not expect him to delete my entire family photos and such and delicate info
[07:41] <EriC^> that doesn't seem practical, if a person does that many times in a row he'll surely get pretty devastated
[07:41] <JimBuntu> EriC^, all decisions rest upon your soul. At the same time, to do something that risks your own well-being, is also a risk that may prevent your future support of others... scales are meant for many things, even though risks and rewards can be difficult to measure in this physical realm
[07:42] <EriC^> well the number one priority is survival of the self and well being
[07:43] <JimBuntu> Yes, our primary task must not be forgotten or negated.
[07:43] <EriC^> if i do something with that magnitude of risk it'd be stupid and as you said might devastate my own self
[07:43] <JimBuntu> Task #2, caring for our family and beloved, must also not be forgotten.
[07:45] <JimBuntu> For the few, they place the care of others above all else. This is OK, over-all, as without these few people, we would not be here. It is not something the majority are asked to do though. This i why we call them saints, and give them a special place.
[07:46] <EriC^> hmm i think sainthood is a psychological problem
[07:46] <JimBuntu> Eh, what do I know... the child of farmers, the lover of technology.
[07:46] <EriC^> sainthood itself, i'm not talking about somebody having to diffuse a bomb to save a village and knows he's going to die in the process
[07:46] <EriC^> that's just the right thing to do in that situation
[07:47] <EriC^> but i think saints are people who've had some kind of hardship, or lack of something, and then go the sainthood route
[07:47] <JimBuntu> Exactly. When presented with a problem that requires sacrifice for the "greater" good... not all will make the right choice. Many "today" ignore the problem instead of solving it.
[07:48] <EriC^> hmm maybe
[07:48] <LtWorf> EriC^:
[07:48] <LtWorf> *defuse
[07:48] <EriC^> how many people wouldn't do it though, i think we all have it in us to do that
[07:48] <EriC^> LtWorf: :D
[07:49] <JimBuntu> LtWorf, hmmm... bomb designs should include more fuses... the in-case of overload, physically degrade, kinds.
[07:50] <JimBuntu> EriC^, sadly, while we may all have it within us, most flee rather than fight. This is shown day in and day out, by how many bystanders allow for things to happen.
[07:50] <EriC^> hmm
[07:51] <EriC^> yeah they do it for many reasons, one being what we mentioned earlier, the primary mission
[07:51] <EriC^> could be a million reasons why they just stand
[07:52] <LtWorf> mostly it's too sudden for them to process it
[07:52] <JimBuntu> Yes, back to the "scales"... we all have them, some of us lean on one side or the other.
[07:52] <JimBuntu> I do not "blame" them for acting in one way or another, they are not obliged to help everyone.
[07:53] <JimBuntu> I will reward those that choose to help though.
[07:53] <EriC^> yeah blame can't be had, in reality for them it would be the better choice, so they are actually doing what's worse for them, as human beings
[07:54] <JimBuntu> This is our struggle. Help and risk much, or ignore and risk less... eventually though, we will possibly be the ones on the other side of the decision and be asking for help.
[07:54] <EriC^> that's true
[07:55] <EriC^> we ultimately do it for ourselves, doing good feels good in the end
[07:55] <EriC^> when the scales are off it's due to other problems
[07:55] <EriC^> cause nobody would knowingly do that, they dont know how to solve a problem etc and they're doing that instead
[07:56] <JimBuntu> Doing good feels good, is contagious and such,... many, even the non-religious, still expect some kind of balance in the world. "If I do good now, then good should be done for me later"
[07:57] <JimBuntu> The reality is that there is no balance, we have to create that.... as interactive entities. imho
[07:58] <EriC^> yup
[08:18] <Bashing-om> Off to bed ,, back on in about 12 hours . \o
[08:19] <ducasse> sleep well Bashing-om
[09:35] <Gargravarr> did SegFault1 really just ask us to help them cheat on an exam?
[09:35]  * Gargravarr shakes head
[09:36] <guiverc> :)
[11:34] <guiverc> Howdy JimBuntu, thanks.
[12:53] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:53] <BluesKaj> BBL
[21:17] <SlidingHorn> quiet in main...not sure if that's a good thing or a bad one lol