[07:47] <seatsea_m> Hello! I've encountered my most surprising bug yet.
[07:48] <seatsea_m> I've just setup xubuntu on a zotac PI223, and as I open the software center, the device powers off completely, no warning, no kernel panic nothing
[07:48] <seatsea_m> It seems to be when it begins scanning for firmware updates.
[07:49] <pmjdebru1jn> that's not a good sign
[07:49] <pmjdebru1jn> seatsea_m: that would imply your EFI/BIOS is buggy?
[07:50] <pmjdebru1jn> seatsea_m: have you tried manually updating your EFI/BIOS ?
[07:51] <seatsea_m> Well to begin with, I had to use a 32bit EFI loader to even be able to boot the installer. So logical assumption is, the software center is expecting 64bit EFI
[07:51] <seatsea_m> When in reality, this device's EFI is 32bit
[07:51] <pmjdebru1jn> possibly, though linux has most of the thing needed for different EFI bitness
[07:51] <pmjdebru1jn> although they may have focussed on 32->64 not as much 64->32
[07:52] <seatsea_m> Which is understandable, but I guess for the time being as this device is just destined to be a Skype machine, I would rather just disable the software center from scanning for firmware
[07:53] <seatsea_m> However I wanted to report this issue anyway, as it's a pretty serious one.
[07:54] <pmjdebru1jn> seatsea_m: btw, did you try updating the EFI manually to the latest and see if the issue is still reproducable?
[07:54] <seatsea_m> I'll have to look into if that's possible for this device
[07:55] <pmjdebru1jn> also, as a sidenote, does the device still have Legacy/CSM mode (given it's 32bit EFI, probablynot)? if so, that may be a better work around...
[07:55] <pmjdebru1jn> seatsea_m: essentially the big question here is, is the kernel doing something wrong, or is it just triggering a bug in EFI
[07:55] <pmjdebru1jn> EFIs in general are fairly buggy
[07:56] <seatsea_m> It doesn't seem to have legacy, I looked around the BIOS options.
[07:56] <pmjdebru1jn> I'm surprised you got xubuntu installed at all to be honest
[07:57] <seatsea_m> Unless it's a weird hybrid bios like my old Asus board that did both legacy and EFI simultaneously (without a toggle). It seems to only support EFI
[07:57] <seatsea_m> Have to agree with you there, didn't expect it to work either
[07:57] <pmjdebru1jn> actually most BIOS/EFI do both simultaneously
[07:57] <pmjdebru1jn> it's not weird at all
[07:58] <seatsea_m> But the installation worked without a hitch other than having to put the 32 EFI loader
[07:58] <seatsea_m> Oh, I assumed the default was to have a toggle to chose either/or
[08:00] <seatsea_m> There does indeed seem to be a bios update tool,
[08:01] <seatsea_m> I will run it
[08:02] <pmjdebru1jn> so all new system simply have EFI... no BIOS
[08:02] <pmjdebru1jn> but they have a bit of code called a CSM, which emulates BIOS APIs
[08:03] <pmjdebru1jn> which is why most EFIs can do both simultaneously
[08:03] <seatsea_m> Noted
[08:06] <seatsea_m> Man I hate BIOS updates, always so worried there will be a power outage or something and brick the device
[08:07] <pmjdebru1jn> in theory most EFI devices should be more robust in that sense
[08:07] <pmjdebru1jn> but yeah, it's not fun regardless
[08:07] <pmjdebru1jn> laptop are less unnerving... since built in UPS :)
[08:08] <seatsea_m> Xubuntu reports this device has a battery, but it definitely doesn't
[08:08] <seatsea_m> Alright, BIOS updated, still crashes the device when I open the software app
[08:08] <pmjdebru1jn> presumably this is a mini-pc? so it probably has laptop grade hardware inside, maybe that includes the battery controller, even if no battery is connected
[08:08] <seatsea_m> Maybe so
[08:08] <seatsea_m> It's a P series
[08:09] <pmjdebru1jn> so the last thing you could try, is setup a netconsole, and then try to crash it
[08:09] <pmjdebru1jn> maybe some relevant kernel message will be captured
[08:09] <seatsea_m> I've never done that before, how do I proceed?
[08:09] <pmjdebru1jn> also, you might want to report this to the fwupd folks, since they might be able to guide you much better in this
[08:10] <pmjdebru1jn> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netconsole
[08:10] <seatsea_m> I should have know it's on the archwiki
[08:10] <pmjdebru1jn> haha :)
[08:10] <pmjdebru1jn> they do a good job of providing documentation yes :D
[08:10] <pmjdebru1jn> that often mostly distro independant
[08:11] <pmjdebru1jn> btw, to test netconsole, to see if its working, you can plugin a usb drive or something, that usually generates some kernel messages
[08:14] <pmjdebru1jn> seatsea_m: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/fwupd
[08:44] <seatsea_m> pmjdebru1jn: unfortunately, I can't run netconsole, neither of the interfaces on the device support polling,
[08:45] <pmjdebru1jn> ah bummer
[08:45] <pmjdebru1jn> I highly suggest to put this case on the fwupd list
[08:45] <pmjdebru1jn> since this is likely not a xubuntu specific issue
[08:46] <pmjdebru1jn> at worst the Zotac could be blacklisted in fwupd
[08:47] <seatsea_m> Alright, unfortunately this is a device I'm setting up in a business situation, so I won't have much opportunity to debug
[08:47] <pmjdebru1jn> i'd at least mention it on the list
[08:47] <pmjdebru1jn> the flipside is though, depending on what it's used for, maybe a completely different device might be the proper solution
[08:48] <pmjdebru1jn> 32uefi is something that isn't well supported on linux at all
[08:48] <pmjdebru1jn> future major upgrades have a not negligible likelyhood of breaking
[08:48] <pmjdebru1jn> anyhow that's your call, just food for thought
[08:50] <seatsea_m> Well I'll leave the decision up to my boss, meanwhile is there a way I can disable the firmware update checking?
[08:51] <pmjdebru1jn> no clue to be honest
[08:52] <pmjdebru1jn> anyhow when looking for hardware to run linux on, having either legacy support (preferable), or 64bit EFI is not a luxury
[09:05] <seatsea_m> pmjdebru1jn: tried disabling the update feature of gnome-software via dconf but no change
[13:58] <Miki_J> hello, i managed to install xubuntu on an aspire es1-533 with "sudo ubiquity -b"
[14:00] <Miki_J> i am having problems getting it to boot
[14:01] <Miki_J> i followed the instructions here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/862946/unable-to-install-ubuntu-on-acer-aspire-es1-533
[14:02] <Miki_J> from a rEFInd live system command line i did
[14:02] <Miki_J> bcfg boot add 2 fs0:\EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi "GRUB Loader"
[14:03] <Miki_J> it now boots to grub, but not xubuntu
[14:04] <Miki_J> it boots thru rEFInd, but not the windows boot loader
[14:04] <Miki_J> any ideas?
[14:06] <james1138> Morning all. Hypothetical question. If I was wanting to tweak Xubuntu for speed... would applications with few or no dependencies that may run in the background be a consideration?