[14:52] <OvenWerks> Is this a meeting day?
[15:30] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes. I just woke up. I am putting together an agenda.
[15:31]  * ErichEickmeyer probably just had the best night's sleep in YEARS
[16:47] <OvenWerks> Cool, as happens I just uploaded the latest version of -controls 
[16:47] <OvenWerks> https://launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
[16:48] <ErichEickmeyer> Sweet. I just did more rebranding on -welcome.
[16:49] <ErichEickmeyer> https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/ubuntustudio/+git/ubuntustudio-welcome
[16:49] <ErichEickmeyer> I think once I get through the rebranding, then the real customization can begin.
[16:50] <OvenWerks> There are many changes... and it is certainly a work in progress (there is even a call that is not yet called) but the cpu governor now works on 18.04-10 and more than one USB device works, MIDI USB devcies don't mess things up...
[16:51] <ErichEickmeyer> Nice. Keeps getting better!
[16:55] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: no recipe? or not ready for that yet?
[16:57] <ErichEickmeyer> Not ready. Also, this is a fork directly from github, so that might be why.
[17:03] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: no yu have to put a recipe in.
[18:00] <ErichEickmeyer> This just forked too: https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/ubuntustudio/+git/ubuntustudio-boutique
[18:00] <ErichEickmeyer> No changes made yet.
[18:03] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Also, just checked the ubuntu-mate-welcome repo, and there's no recipe there either.
[18:12] <eylul> I am not sure if i will make to the meeting today. but main items in case I can't.
[18:12] <eylul> 1) wallpaper: yes you can notice the difference between 1920x1080 resolution (Full HD) and 3840x2160 (4K) on a HiDPI screen. (I use a 17" screen for reference). As OvenWerks found out that the performance is not affected, I'd argue lets go with 4K to future proof. A lot of new laptops even come with higher resolution screens, and we argued before that we are not aiming for after the market that much. :) 
[18:13] <eylul> 2) I think everyone arguing against KDE and for gnome mentioned the wacom tablet issue. This is something we have discussed before and had plans on. (before I had to vanish) I'll send an email on the topic, now. :)
[18:16] <OvenWerks> ok
[18:16] <ErichEickmeyer> :thumbsup:
[18:16] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: it would have a snap recipe.
[18:16] <OvenWerks> They use a sanp package
[18:20] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looking here, it points to the snap package, but I can't figure out where the recipe is: https://code.launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/+snap/ubuntu-mate-welcome
[18:20] <ErichEickmeyer> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-mate/+git/ubuntu-mate-welcome/+ref/before-boutique
[18:22] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: there is on that last page, a link that says Create snap package
[18:23] <OvenWerks> You can redirect it to make a snap package in any ppa.
[18:23] <OvenWerks> however, if it could be made to create a non-snap package... that could be an advantage too.
[18:25] <ErichEickmeyer> I may have cloned the wrong repo... the new one is "before boutique". Now that I think about it, Wimpress did say something about there being a new version with a separated boutique.
[18:25] <OvenWerks> The welcome is like a menu that calls separate processes yes.
[18:26] <ErichEickmeyer> Also, the docs says it can be built without snap, it even includes a debian directory.
[18:27] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah, looks like development stopped on the repo I initiallly cloned and now everything is in the "before-boutique" version. back to the drawing board.
[18:28] <ErichEickmeyer> Or, maybe not. I'm so confused.
[18:28] <OvenWerks> I have noticed that for a snap package to run, it needs the snap daemon to be running, That creates a loopback directory which it fills for each snap program... after the program ends, trhose directories are still there.
[18:30] <ErichEickmeyer> Could it be that those directories remain there for the next time it's run?
[18:30] <OvenWerks> I am sure that is true... but is that a good thing?
[18:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Something tells me that's by design. Remember, it's not like a docker container.
[18:35] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: yes, that is great if you have to have a non-standard lib, but if it can run without a snap, it will use less system resourses.
[18:37] <ErichEickmeyer> I'm not 100% sure that's true. I'm trying to get someone in here to answer questions about snaps, since it's a bit over my head.
[18:42] <Son_Goku> meep
[18:43] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Hi!
[18:43] <Son_Goku> Hey
[18:43] <Son_Goku> I'm one of the maintainers of the Snappy stack in Fedora
[18:43] <Son_Goku> so I may be able to answer some of your questions w.r.t. snaps
[18:43] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Awesome! That will be helpful!
[18:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Our meeting will officially kick-off in about 15 minutes, but OvenWerks and I have been unofficially talking about snaps and he has a few concerns.
[18:45] <Son_Goku> sure
[18:45] <Son_Goku> be aware that much of my experience is related to the work I've had to do to integrate snaps in Fedora
[18:45] <Son_Goku> but a good amount of it is fairly generic
[18:46] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, knowing how snaps work, it should be relatively cross-platform.
[18:46] <Son_Goku> ehh, mostly
[18:46] <Son_Goku> snaps are unfortunately more complex than that
[18:46] <ErichEickmeyer> captain-tux: o/
[18:47] <captain-tux> Hello :)
[18:47] <Son_Goku> OvenWerks, what concerns do you have?
[18:48] <Son_Goku> ErichEickmeyer, I'm also the maintainer of Flatpak for Mageia, so if you have any questions w.r.t. snaps vs flatpaks, I can hopefully help there too
[18:48] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Cool!
[18:49] <ErichEickmeyer> He might be AFK at the moment.
[18:49]  * Son_Goku shrugs
[18:49] <Son_Goku> well, do _you_ have any questions, then?
[18:50] <ErichEickmeyer> Kindof, but mine are closer to Launchpad-based, e.g. snap recipes.
[18:50] <ErichEickmeyer> And need to be directed at the original authors of a package I'm forking.
[18:51] <Son_Goku> ah
[18:51] <Son_Goku> snap recipes are a weird aspect of snaps that I don't use
[18:51] <Son_Goku> after all, Launchpad isn't particularly useful for building snaps within Fedora infrastructure ;)
[18:52] <ErichEickmeyer> Of course.
[18:52]  * ErichEickmeyer used Fedora JAM before joining the Ubuntu Studio team.
[18:52] <Son_Goku> aww, you left us for Ubuntu :'(
[18:53] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. I saw a ship sinking and, since I have a ton of high-level Ubuntu contacts, decided to help keep the ship afloat.
[18:53] <Son_Goku> the Ubuntu Studio ship?
[18:54] <ErichEickmeyer> Yes. An unfortunate series of events for the project leader led the project to stagnate for about two years. You'll notice the only major difference between 16.04 and 18.04 is the packages were updated.
[18:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Basically, the project leader couldn't continue, and neither could the release manager, so a council has been formed and now I'm the release manager.
[18:56] <Son_Goku> lucky you, I guess
[18:56] <ErichEickmeyer> Depends on how you look at it. I also chair the council.
[18:56] <Son_Goku> I'm now one of the dev team leaders for Mageia (which consequently makes me a member of the Mageia Council)
[18:57] <Son_Goku> I've also gotten pretty deeply involved across the package management stack used in nearly all RPM based Linux distributions
[18:57] <Son_Goku> which has been an interesting change of late
[18:58] <ErichEickmeyer> Awesome. I did a number of items with openSUSE and Fedora on my own repo in Open Build Service, but never really got involved with the projects themselves.
[18:58] <ErichEickmeyer> My involvement with Ubuntu Studio has been a whirlwind.
[18:59] <ErichEickmeyer> I use the tools in my regular job, so there's incentive.
[18:59] <Son_Goku> which is more or less how this happened for me
[18:59] <Son_Goku> I'm now an active contributor in Fedora, Mageia, and openSUSE
[19:00] <Son_Goku> and semi-active in a few others...
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> #startmeeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat May 26 19:00:16 2018 UTC.  The chair is ErichEickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> #chair OvenWerks
[19:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: ErichEickmeyer OvenWerks
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> #chair eylul captain-tux
[19:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: ErichEickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul
[19:00] <ErichEickmeyer> #chair krytarik
[19:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: ErichEickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul krytarik
[19:01] <ErichEickmeyer> And that's all I see active atm.
[19:02] <OvenWerks> ok
[19:02] <ErichEickmeyer> Let's start with -controls since you're here, OvenWerks.
[19:02] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic ubuntustudio-controls
[19:03] <OvenWerks> -controls is still moving. It can handle more than one USB device and is no longer confused by midi usb devices
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Excellent.
[19:03] <ErichEickmeyer> That's amazing progress.
[19:03] <OvenWerks> the cpu governor now works on 18.* and up
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Awesome. Have you thought about indicator-cpufreq? I use it and it comes in handy.
[19:04] <OvenWerks>  I don't remember If I have yet removed what would work on 16.*
[19:04] <ErichEickmeyer> Are we planning on backporting to 16.04?
[19:04] <OvenWerks> -controls just sets it right now and at next boot. WHere ever it was at shutdown it should come up the same way
[19:05] <OvenWerks> I do not know if the mods to work in 18.* would break 16.* or not.
[19:05] <ErichEickmeyer> I say we don't worry about backporting, since we're ultimately going for 18.10 and have the polish done by 20.04.
[19:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Gives us a couple years to get it right, know what I mean?
[19:06] <OvenWerks> I am finding though, that the version of jackdbus we have doesn't seem as stable at "switch master" as it was when I started
[19:07] <ErichEickmeyer> Huh. bug in jackdbus?
[19:07] <OvenWerks> This means that for robustness, it appears jack will have to be restarted for master device change... at least some of them
[19:08] <OvenWerks> I am not sure if this is a change in jack or alsa
[19:08] <ErichEickmeyer> Not surprising considering the number of things that have to be restarted for jack to apply changes.
[19:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, great.
[19:09] <OvenWerks> anyway, a latest package is available to try in: https://launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
[19:09] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[19:10]  * ErichEickmeyer still has yet to move to cosmic from bionic.
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> Now, since I don't want to waste Son_Goku's time...
[19:10] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic ubuntustudio-welcome
[19:10] <OvenWerks> unchecking the start jackd with session start option will leave the system as stock
[19:10]  * Son_Goku waves
[19:11] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Some people had questions about that, and that's what I told them.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> it is the one advantage over Cadence
[19:11] <ErichEickmeyer> So, for welcome, it's a fork of ubuntu-mate-welcome which is pre-installed as a snap.
[19:11] <Son_Goku> :/
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> But, OvenWerks has concerns about snap, to quote: "I have noticed that for a snap package to run, it needs the snap daemon to be running, That creates a loopback directory which it fills for each snap program... after the program ends, trhose directories are still there."
[19:12] <Son_Goku> the thing that was forked from antegros which was forked from korora, right?
[19:12] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Correct.
[19:13] <ErichEickmeyer> I speculate that is by design for the next time the program loads.
[19:13] <ErichEickmeyer> Either way, it appears that it can be packaged as a native .deb file, so I'm not too concerned.
[19:13] <Son_Goku> technically, you need the snappy daemon running for two purposes:
[19:13] <Son_Goku> 1. Managing the snaps on the system
[19:14] <Son_Goku> 2. Discovering snaps from the singular Snap Store
[19:14] <Son_Goku> snapd is not necessary for the actual usage of snaps, because snaps are mounted by systemd, through mount units
[19:14] <Son_Goku> the reason the snaps stick around is because snapd writes them as persistent mount units
[19:15] <Son_Goku> you'll find them in /etc/systemd/system
[19:15] <Son_Goku> the snappy daemon does generally need to be running for any of the snap tooling to work, but for snap applications themselves, they should not require snapd
[19:15] <Son_Goku> this is why I'm not personally a fan of snapping applications that interface with snapd
[19:15] <Son_Goku> it creates an awful catch-22 that might not work out so nicely
[19:16] <OvenWerks> So an application installer may not be a good canidate
[19:16] <ErichEickmeyer> snapd runs by default in every flavor of Ubuntu as of 18.04, I believe.
[19:17] <Son_Goku> OvenWerks, the tricky problem is how do you get people to get it?
[19:18] <Son_Goku> and last I heard, there have been difficulties with preloading certain classes of snaps on the ISO
[19:18] <OvenWerks> apt?
[19:18] <Son_Goku> well, if it's a snap, then it becomes problematic
[19:18] <Son_Goku> but if it's a regular system package, this is easy
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> This would be installed by default on Ubuntu Studio from 18.10 onward. (-welcome)
[19:19] <ErichEickmeyer> As it currently is on U-MATE and U-Budgie.
[19:19] <Son_Goku> I wish all the forks of Korora's welcome would actually help those guys out (*sighs*)
[19:19] <Son_Goku> anyway, that's sorta beside the point right nwo
[19:19] <Son_Goku> *now
[19:20] <Son_Goku> but you probably don't want the snappy code running while it's in live-media mode
[19:21] <Son_Goku> I've observed issues with snaps + casper livefs
[19:21] <ErichEickmeyer> It doesn't run in the live media.
[19:21] <Son_Goku> then you should be fine
[19:21] <ErichEickmeyer> The -welcome app is to run after installation.
[19:22] <Son_Goku> then yeah, I wouldn't worry about it
[19:22] <Son_Goku> it's working as designed
[19:23] <Son_Goku> ErichEickmeyer, OvenWerks: anything else?
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> That's all I have for now. Could we ping you in the future?
[19:24] <ErichEickmeyer> You've been very helpful
[19:24] <OvenWerks> how do snaps deal with plugins
[19:25] <Son_Goku> ErichEickmeyer, sure
[19:25] <Son_Goku> I tend to hang out everywhere but the ubuntu channels ;)
[19:25] <Son_Goku> but notably, I'm in #snappy
[19:25] <Son_Goku> OvenWerks, in what sense?
[19:26] <OvenWerks> both graphics applications and audio applications have plugins.
[19:26] <OvenWerks> if  daw is run as a snap, where would it see a plugin?
[19:26] <OvenWerks> gimp uses plugins as well
[19:27] <Son_Goku> it doesn't
[19:27] <Son_Goku> that's (hopefully) the point
[19:27] <Son_Goku> it would only see stuff that's part of the snap itself
[19:27] <OvenWerks> about what I thought
[19:27] <Son_Goku> flatpak and snap have some concepts around supporting plugin models
[19:27] <ErichEickmeyer> So, one would have to essentially "kitchen sink" the plugins to the snap to get the plugins into the app.
[19:28] <Son_Goku> but it's kind of weak
[19:28] <OvenWerks> we have had people suggest a snap for problem applications lib wise that have plugins.
[19:28] <Son_Goku> especially in snaps, where if you do "classic confinement", you're technically exposing the host system up to the snap
[19:28] <Son_Goku> so weird things happen
[19:28] <OvenWerks>  calf plugins already do that
[19:29] <OvenWerks> (no snaps involved)
[19:29] <Son_Goku> flatpak has a concept of "extending" application flatpaks with addons, which kind of goes towards what you're talking about
[19:29] <Son_Goku> that's how flatpak supports proper GTK/Qt themes for apps, for example
[19:29] <Son_Goku> but for snaps, you'd need to write an independent snap that would "bridge" to the main one
[19:29] <Son_Goku> and even then, I'm not terribly sure that would work, because unlike flatpaks, snaps don't overlay the filesystem structures on top of each other
[19:31] <Son_Goku> I'd probably suggest if you wanted to deliver apps as snaps that typically use plugins, bundle all the plugins into the snap
[19:31] <OvenWerks> That sounds like a nightmare
[19:31]  * Son_Goku shrugs
[19:31] <ErichEickmeyer> That settles it then.
[19:31] <Son_Goku> if something has changed about it, I haven't heard about it yet
[19:32] <OvenWerks> Thats it for me then.
[19:32] <ErichEickmeyer> #agreed Ubuntu Studio will not be including snaps of GIMP or any other program that uses plugins until snaps can support plugins.
[19:32] <Son_Goku> but as far as I'm aware, that's the sitch
[19:32] <Son_Goku> but yes, flatpak supports this: https://blog.tingping.se/2018/03/18/flatpaking-plugins.html
[19:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Interesting.
[19:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, we need to move on to our next topic or we'll be here all day (and I do have to head to work in about 2 hours).
[19:33] <Son_Goku> heh
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic ubuntustudio-plasma
[19:34] <Son_Goku> I believe flathub ships some apps as flatpaks with extensions
[19:34] <Son_Goku> so take a look at that
[19:34] <Son_Goku> ooh, plasma for ubuntustudio :)
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Any progress on Plasma? I've been meaning to get a couple screenshots as proof-of-concept.
[19:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Yep. We announced we'd be adding it as a DE two weeks ago. :)
[19:34] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: you probably don't want the current theme as I am using it :)
[19:35] <Son_Goku> ErichEickmeyer, so like Fedora jam (which also uses Plasma) :)
[19:35] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: I doubt most people would! haha
[19:35] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: And KXStudio.
[19:36] <OvenWerks> https://i.imgur.com/wHegBQl.png
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> We did quite a bit of testing before landing on Plasma for our first +1 DE. Xfce will remain default for now.
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yep, very close to what I have.
[19:36] <ErichEickmeyer> Except the theme where I stuck to Breeze on the windows.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> This is breeese I think but I edited the scheme
[19:37] <OvenWerks> (colour scheme)
[19:37] <ErichEickmeyer> With Breeze being the default for Plasma, I recommend keeping it simple and sticking to the default for 18.10 just to lighten the workload.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> I have no problem with that
[19:37] <OvenWerks> Mostly I made these changes to see how far I could go
[19:37] <ErichEickmeyer> Besides, it already has a dark variant for people who prefer to work that way as well.
[19:38] <OvenWerks> (without having to downlaod anything)
[19:38] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool. Are we working on a settings package for that?
[19:38] <OvenWerks> it's stock
[19:40] <OvenWerks> if i understand what you are asking
[19:40] <OvenWerks> I have not yet started on a desktop-plasma package because I am working on -controls.
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> No worries.
[19:40] <ErichEickmeyer> I was just curious.
[19:41] <ErichEickmeyer> I'd consider solidifying -controls a higher priority this early anyhow since it's a bit more technical.
[19:41] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyhow, with that, I think we can move on.
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic wallpapers
[19:42] <OvenWerks> k
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul already posted earlier, so I'll just take what she wrote and put it in the meeting notes.
[19:42] <ErichEickmeyer> Do you have anything to add?
[19:43] <OvenWerks> not at this time.
[19:43] <eylul> *was actually lurking here for whole time*
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> LOL!
[19:43] <eylul> *continues to lurk*
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> The mouse speaks!
[19:43] <OvenWerks> The peanut gallery has been so quiet.
[19:43] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Anything to add to what you wrote earlier today?
[19:44] <OvenWerks> (lots of other nicks active)
[19:44] <eylul> just forgot to say that I think we have decided to go with .png? was that the final verdict?
[19:44] <OvenWerks> I think that would be best
[19:44] <ErichEickmeyer> Obviously the wacom issue is a thing, but if we can make some sort of gui with -controls or -settings, that would fix that issue for both Xfce and Plasma.
[19:44] <OvenWerks> do we need a vote? or did we?
[19:44] <ErichEickmeyer> I thought we voted last time?
[19:45] <eylul> yeah I think we did.
[19:45] <OvenWerks> I will roll back the two changes then.
[19:45] <ErichEickmeyer> iirc we went with .png
[19:45] <OvenWerks> shood we vote on 4k
[19:45] <eylul> I'll convert the files, and get them up... somewhere for next meeting so that they can be uploaded. *is not going near the package editing again*
[19:45] <eylul> (not until everything is moved to git)
[19:46] <eylul> oh
[19:46] <ErichEickmeyer> I think a vote for 4k would be a good idea.
[19:46] <eylul> that's my vote
[19:46] <ErichEickmeyer> #vote Should wallpapers move to 4k?
[19:46] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should wallpapers move to 4k?
[19:46] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:46] <ErichEickmeyer> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from ErichEickmeyer
[19:46] <krytarik> -1
[19:46] <meetingology> -1 received from krytarik
[19:46] <OvenWerks> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from OvenWerks
[19:46] <eylul> +1
[19:46] <meetingology> +1 received from eylul
[19:46] <captain-tux>   +1
[19:47] <OvenWerks> krytarik: did you want to say more?
[19:47] <krytarik> Well, just seems a little unusual and over the top right now.
[19:47] <eylul> unusual compared to...?
[19:47] <krytarik> Everything else.
[19:48] <eylul> everything else is a very vague descriptor.
[19:48] <ErichEickmeyer> #vote
[19:48] <meetingology> Voting still open on: Should wallpapers move to 4k?
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> #endvote
[19:49] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should wallpapers move to 4k?
[19:49] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
[19:49] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> We can revisit that.
[19:49] <ErichEickmeyer> #undo
[19:49] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[19:49] <OvenWerks> yes it seems there could be some discusion
[19:49] <eylul> I love meetingology. XD
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> smh
[19:50] <ErichEickmeyer> So, we need further discussion on this. krytarik has a valid point, and I believe some discussion is merited.
[19:51] <eylul> I do disagree with that (the valid point, not discussion aspect)
[19:51] <OvenWerks> :)
[19:51] <eylul> I do need more than everything else is different as an argument. with no clear explanation of what everything else is, to figure out if it is relevant to us or not
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> krytarik: You okay? Some point-of-view on this would be nice.
[19:52] <ErichEickmeyer> We can revote if the argument is compelling enough.
[19:53] <OvenWerks> We had already voted on whatever hires was last year so we can start with that
[19:53] <OvenWerks> 1024P or something
[19:54] <OvenWerks> having made that choice it is perhaps a bit quick to jump again.
[19:54] <ErichEickmeyer> Might be. Granted, 4k looks better on 4k and scales down well enough, but sticking to 1024 for now isn't a bad idea. Maybe revisit 4k after 18.10?
[19:55] <eylul> 1080p is not HiRes and never was, and I do disagree with this decision
[19:56] <eylul> 4K was the resolution of wallpaper we were ready to put up to 18.04 without discussion before I brought it up. :) 
[19:56] <OvenWerks> really the choice can wait till beta. It may take a bit to put thoughts for or against into words.
[19:56] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Should we table this for another date?
[19:56] <OvenWerks> Ah, didn't look taht close
[19:57] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: I think so
[19:57] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, let's vote on the vote.
[19:57] <eylul> and nobody had any disagreements with it after testing until one random comment. I am all for discussion. I have serious issues about us hesitating to change decisions because one person who hasn't contributed to discussion. (as small relatively speaking as this particular problem is) and yeah lets table it :)
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> #vote Table switching to 4k discussion for later date
[19:58] <meetingology> Please vote on: Table switching to 4k discussion for later date
[19:58] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:58] <ErichEickmeyer> +1
[19:58] <meetingology> +1 received from ErichEickmeyer
[19:58] <OvenWerks> +1
[19:58] <meetingology> +1 received from OvenWerks
[19:58] <OvenWerks> we seem to have lost everyone
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Not sure why. :(
[19:59] <eylul> +1
[19:59] <meetingology> +1 received from eylul
[19:59] <ErichEickmeyer> krytarik, captain-tux?
[19:59] <eylul> as long as the discussion happens timely for 18.10
[19:59] <captain-tux> +1
[19:59] <meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
[20:00] <captain-tux> Yeah, that, I'm set.
[20:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. I'll keep it in the agenda to discuss next week, but not necessarily make a decision.
[20:00] <ErichEickmeyer> #endvote
[20:00] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Table switching to 4k discussion for later date
[20:00] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:00] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:01] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic Website Theme
[20:01] <ErichEickmeyer> SlidingHorn isn't here, but do we have any progress here?
[20:01] <eylul> no update from me.
[20:02] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay.
[20:02] <ErichEickmeyer> That's it for the agenda. Anything else to add?
[20:03] <eylul> not from me. I am looking at the kde wacom interface linked. I didn't realize it was still actively developed.
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> Interesting.
[20:03] <OvenWerks> Which link?
[20:03] <ErichEickmeyer> That definitelly needs to be something we include in -plasma.
[20:04] <eylul> OvenWerks: Alexansander's reply to my email. 
[20:04] <eylul> https://github.com/KDE/wacomtablet :)
[20:05] <ErichEickmeyer> Ah, it's a KCM.
[20:05] <ErichEickmeyer> #topic Wacom Tablet
[20:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Last release was 3.0 on April 3.
[20:06] <ErichEickmeyer> Needs to be packaged.
[20:07] <eylul> *nods*
[20:07] <ErichEickmeyer> Apparently already being worked on by the Kubuntu team: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
[20:08] <eylul> Kubuntu team is great :)
[20:08] <ErichEickmeyer> I'll keep up to date with them. Definitely a collaboration thing here. :)
[20:09] <OvenWerks> anyone have a good suggestion for an inexpesive tablet?
[20:10] <ErichEickmeyer> Shall we end the meeting first?
[20:10] <OvenWerks> (k
[20:10] <eylul> yes but will wait for meeting to be over :)
[20:10] <ErichEickmeyer> #endmeeting
[20:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat May 26 20:10:52 2018 UTC.  
[20:10] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-05-26-19.00.moin.txt
[20:11] <OvenWerks> (I'm looking for 7inch-ish, I think)
[20:11] <eylul> ovenwerks: intuos are basic versions of wacom tablets and reasonably cheap. (and it is basically the same pad that was the old professional tablets). I also heard good things about huion and has at least some linux support
[20:11] <eylul> unless you mean.. wait drawing tablet?
[20:11] <eylul> or like tablet?
[20:11] <eylul> *laughs*
[20:12] <OvenWerks> for drawing
[20:13] <Son_Goku> OvenWerks, ErichEickmeyer, anyway, I hope what I told you was useful
[20:13] <eylul> I'd argue cheap models of wacom, because that's what I have used and still use and has been supported in linux for a while now. Don't go for something too tiny through as having some movement area to work is better. 
[20:13] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: It is very. It answered some questions we've had for weeks. Thank you so much!
[20:14] <eylul> +1
[20:14] <Son_Goku> ErichEickmeyer, if you need anything, I'm in #flatpak and #snappy
[20:14] <OvenWerks> eylul: I am going by what my son is asking for.
[20:14] <Son_Goku> and of course, various Fedora and Mageia channels :)
[20:14] <ErichEickmeyer> Son_Goku: Awesome. I just joined #snappy, and I'm sure I'll ask questions in the future. :)
[20:15] <eylul> (moving to PM with OvenWerks)
[20:18] <Son_Goku> well, I'm out
[20:18] <eylul> ErichEickmeyer as usual thanks for running the meeting
[20:19] <ErichEickmeyer> eylul: Of course! My pleasure.
[21:14] <tsimonq2> I heard y'all need packaging help?
[21:21] <OvenWerks> I don't know if ErichEickmeyer is ready yet. 
[21:25] <eylul> I think he might have run out to work 
[21:26] <eylul> but hi tsimonq2 its less of a specific: we need packaging for this thing, more than we are lacking permissions to upload (?)
[21:26] <eylul> OvenWerks did I get that right?
[21:27] <tsimonq2> Ah.
[21:27] <eylul> we also need help with packaging in terms of we really don't have enough people, but let us get back on that
[21:27] <eylul> with more specific list and places we are stuck at?
[21:27] <tsimonq2> I do traditional packaging, and not snaps much (although I did at one point, so I can answer passing questions).
[21:28] <tsimonq2> eylul: Sure.
[21:28] <OvenWerks> we pretty much figgured out snaps will not help us much
[21:29] <tsimonq2> I reached the same conclusion with Kubuntu and Lubuntu, for now at least.
[21:29] <eylul> OvenWerks speaking of that that probably means we will need to figure out what to do with mypaint. 
[21:29] <eylul> actually this is something that will affect all flavors I think to some extent.
[21:29] <OvenWerks> eylul: we are waiting for upstream
[21:29] <eylul> *crossing fingers*
[21:30] <OvenWerks> From what I can see, the "new" mypaint has not been released yet.
[21:30] <tsimonq2> mypaint sounds familiar.
[21:31] <tsimonq2> Anyway, see my away message, I'll have to duck out as soon as I lose cell reception. :)
[21:31] <OvenWerks> gimp uses a newer mypaint lib that mypaint can have in the system
[21:31] <OvenWerks> OK
[21:31] <tsimonq2> But yeah, let me know what you need and how I can help you.
[21:32] <eylul> mypaint is a lightweight drawing program with infinite canvas and a great brush engine
[21:32] <eylul> tldr the core lib for next part is out there, and gimp uses it but the release still uses the old version
[21:32] <eylul> causing a conflict if both are installed
[21:32] <eylul> and yeah we will get back to you
[21:32] <eylul> nice to meet you again!
[21:32] <OvenWerks> (like the installer gives up)