[00:09] how can i know that some program is installed that i use apt-get [00:10] is there anything I can do to give user permission to install a specific deb package, without opening a big security hole? [00:11] how can i know that some program is installed or not that i use apt-get? [00:11] I was thinking of giving the user capability to `sudo` without password to install a package, but then the package has full access to the system and can do anything... [00:12] apt-cache show or dpkg -s https://askubuntu.com/questions/180996/what-is-apt-cache-used-for [00:12] pocketmon: apt policy will repo in the fist line Installed: or none [00:12] hi, why there is not dsl/pppoe connection setting in ubuntu 18.04 ? [00:13] pavlos: apt policy nasm it is ok? [00:14] pocketmon: sure ... is the first line Installed: (none) ? [00:14] Installed: 2.11.08-1 [00:14] thanks pavlos :) [00:14] pocketmon: np [00:16] pocketmon: sudo apt list --installed [00:17] sudo apt nasm --installed. E: Command line option --installed is not understood in combination with the other options. mIk3_08 [00:19] I don't have internet, is there anyone know why there is no dsl/pppoe connection settings in ubuntu 18.04 and how can I fix it ? [00:19] use list to view all install apps on your machine [00:20] pocketmon:i mean installed apps on your machine [00:20] ah [00:20] i will try it again [00:22] thanks mIk3_08 but it give me amazing information size [00:23] I can't seem to get rid of alt+drag in movnig windows. I've changed it to super in ccsm, dconf, and marco windows management. [00:23] pocketmon: great. [00:23] :) [00:23] massprog, i helped you yesterday, no? [00:24] massprog, sudo pppoeconf in terminal, to set it up, after that you can select dsl in your network manager [00:24] that wouldn't worked [00:24] sorry for asking again [00:24] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ADSLPPPoE [00:25] why not, where do you get stuck? [00:26] I did all steps but at the end didn't work [00:26] that machine needs to be directly connected to the modem, right [00:26] when I type cd, I get bash: cd: HOME not set [00:26] right [00:27] I used nm-connection-editor on mint 18.3 it worked [00:28] but I did the same on ubuntu and it created dsl/pppoe connection but it was no where that I can connect to it [00:34] anyone know how to get rid of alt+drag when dconf is not working? === boshhead_ is now known as boshhead [00:36] Hi There [00:36] Anyone using Xeniel [00:37] Apt514: If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later. [00:37] Okay Thank Spork [00:39] how do i get network manager to work with iwlwifi driver? [00:42] wifi doesn't show up when doing rfkill list all but does show up under ifconfig [00:47] pocketmon: Welcome to Open Source. Good Luck. [00:47] :) [00:58] can someone help me get my wifi working? i have an intel card. lspci -nnk | grep 0280 -A3 shows the right thing but the interface (or whatever) doesn't appear in rfkill list all [01:02] max3: is your machine a desktop or laptop? [01:02] laptop [01:02] max3: try using your function keys... [01:03] mIk3_08, it turned my dongle on and off [01:04] max3: turn it on. [01:04] mIk3_08, but didn't change the output of rfkill [01:04] mIk3_08, i did in order to be back online and chatting here :) [01:06] max3: try $ sudo rfkill list all [01:07] http://dpaste.com/2BWQD3N [01:07] phy0 is my dongle [01:07] i think? [01:08] yes [01:08] here's lshw http://dpaste.com/19CBK1A [01:08] max3: 0: phy0: Wireless LAN [01:09] yes? [01:09] Max3: Welcome to open source. Good Luck. [01:09] lol [01:10] :-D B-) [01:10] dmesg | grep iwl gives me nothing [01:13] hey errrbody. I have a weird device that has a 32bit uefi or efi even though it can run a 64bit os [01:14] I found a known working 32-bit efi file but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to write that file to /EFI/BOOT on my flash installer [01:15] Mind you, a different workaround would be fine if folks in here think that I am going about this the wrong way [01:28] oh, the device is a dell venue pro 11 model 5130 [01:30] for 32 bit uefi machines: my advise is disable secure boot and have fun. do check the vendor website if the provide a 64 bit upgrade bios. [01:30] There is no 64 bit uefi. I have the most current bios. [01:31] Should I just grab a 16.04 32bit installer? [01:32] This device does not have a legacy bios mode. If it did, I wouldn't be in here askin for help === Suntop_ is now known as Suntop_K [01:34] oh a tablet [01:34] yeah, it's an atom, not arm. [01:35] cpu is 64bit. it's the strangest thing. [01:35] Intel Atom Z3770, 4 core i see [01:35] Yes. I need to replace both the grub and uefi with 32 bit versions right? [01:37] We got about 150 of these in at work and I decided to snag one for myself just to goof around on. [01:40] some guides talk about making a bootia32.efi, our wiki is also incomplete.. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI [01:41] yeah I saw that... I must have done osmething wrong [01:55] this looks like it's designed to fix this issue. I am giving it a go :) [01:55] http://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com/2017/06/customizing-ubuntu-isos-documentation.html [02:35] I need some help about apt-mirror [02:35] I want install ubuntu on my local http server [02:37] by using apt-mirror can get deb or deb-src package except installer [02:38] so the question is how to config apt-mirror download installer package [02:39] I check my local server and cn.archive.ubuntu.com files , [02:39] installer package is abcent [02:40] so someone can help me ? [02:41] baalkyo: What do you mean by that? ubiquity? [02:42] I want to install ubuntu 18.04 or 16.04 using my own repo [02:43] !info ubiquity [02:43] ubiquity (source: ubiquity): Ubuntu live CD installer. In component main, is optional. Version 18.04.14.1 (bionic), package size 3175 kB, installed size 17174 kB [02:43] the site cn.archive.ubuntu.cn ,sometime wait long time during network installing [02:43] not live cd [02:44] just mirror the site cn.archive.ubuntu.cn [02:45] and let my compute can install package or ubuntu system locally [02:46] chinese network is aweful except 0-8 [02:46] I can let the server update the files during this time [02:47] apt-mirror , can setup resource, but can not include the installer package [02:48] I use network installer [02:48] usb [02:48] oh, you want PXE server, to install the iso from a server locally, plús the whole repository?? [02:51] pxe is another way [02:51] I have using apt-mirror get 400GB 18.04 and 16.04 files [02:52] just have no installer package [02:53] ############# config ################## [02:53] # [02:53] set base_path /var/sda/ftp/ftp/apt-mirror [02:53] # [02:53] set mirror_path $base_path/mirror [02:53] !paste [02:53] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use https://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use https://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. [02:53] above is my apt-mirror config file [02:54] and what installer package exactly? the installer is on the iso that the client loads.. [02:54] just for 16.04 and 18.04 [02:54] yeah, you got kicked out before you could flood the servers [02:55] so we don't know yet [02:55] [PARENTDIR] Parent Directory - [02:55] [DIR] dists/ 2018-05-01 18:56 - [02:55] [DIR] indices/ 2018-06-07 02:07 - [02:55] [ ] ls-lR.gz 2018-06-07 02:38 15M [02:55] [DIR] pool/ 2010-02-27 06:30 - [02:55] [DIR] project/ 2013-06-28 11:52 - [02:55] [DIR] ubuntu/ [02:56] read obuttu: paste [02:58] hi, I've just installed ubuntu 18.04 LTS and compared with previous versions that I used, the desktop doesn't seem to be as smooth, is 18.04 using a new desktop component that requires more resource or it's just that my computer is old? I'm using 18.04 alongside windows 10 which runs perfectly fast. [03:01] weilancys: how old your compute ? [03:11] cc [03:25] good morning to all === Giga is now known as Guest42847 [03:53] weilancys: i had that experience too so i use the new ubuntu-mate instead [03:53] is there any way to resize gnome boxes so that it fits the screen === cp7782 is now known as cp7781 [04:49] There is a feature in zsh which you type a command (first world) and then space and then when you press Up key you cycle back through history of all commands with the same beginning. [04:49] I don't know the exact term for this feature [04:49] Does anyone know relevent info on zsh? [04:49] up-line-or-beginning-search didn't work [04:57] Toxmi, this may help http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Doc/ (zsh doco) [05:10] I need some help installing nvidia-304 [05:11] it keeps telling me gvfs depends on libgtk-3-0 and xorg-video-abi-* [05:12] guiverc: Thanks [05:12] can I find source for dkms? [05:13] Toxmi: something like Reverse Search ? [05:15] pavlos: for example I type `apt-get` and when press Up it don't simply go back in historgy, it go back on the same cammands just those which have begin with 'apt-get' [05:15] gah nvidia-304 [05:15] I've found it. https://ptpb.pw/LBoQ, this should work. But the problem is the keymap. [05:16] Toxmi: in bash I hit ctrl R type apt-get and keep hitting ctrl R and keeps going back to all my apt-get commands [05:16] I can also figure '%[[A' for up key in urxvt but if set this in zsh then, this wont work in gnome-terminal. I don't know how to get consistent i.e. make one configuration in zsh and every terminal emulator knows accordingly [05:17] pavlos: I have fzf for my zsh as wel, when I press C-R a fzf command comes and I search through whole history. It's cool. But I want to set this up as another mechanism [05:18] Toxmi: see this https://coderwall.com/p/-jvcag/zsh-reverse-history-search-with-regex === shann__ is now known as shannara [05:20] pavlos: thanks === Jochen_wvdT is now known as Schlawiner [05:32] hello nurse [05:40] anyone happen to have problems tethering an android phone to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS [05:40] i use 18.04 LTS [05:40] why not upgrade? [05:41] I tried 17 and had a lot of problems so I went back to 16.04 [05:42] Still having problems with my printer on both systems. [05:43] do you think 18 is a lot better than 17 ZaZaOR [05:43] oops ZaZaQR [05:55] ZaZaQR: please dont suggest another ubuntu version, on issues that could be solved on their current version === win0err_ is now known as win0err [06:34] Hi!! I'm trying to connect to my lubuntu(guest machine) from my host machine through putty using ssh and I have the root account. But I'm unable to login as root. It says "Permission Denied". What could be the cause? [06:35] Sorry, its actually "Access Denied" [06:37] 2 systems in the local network - sshing into an offsite-hosted server - local system 1 can ssh into said offsite server instantly, while local system 2 timesout - suggestions? (All systems are Ubuntu Linux) [06:38] zetheroo: run ssh -v and see where the problem occurs, if it's at TCP connect stage, or something else. [06:39] zetheroo: if it's tcp related, run "tcptraceroute 22" and see where the problem occurs. [06:39] SwedeMike: Ok, trying that [06:41] it seems stuck at debug1: Connecting to server.domain.com [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx] port 22. [06:41] cursor just blinking [06:41] zetheroo: then it's TCP/22 not working, probably. [06:41] just now ended with ssh: connect to host server.domain.com port 22: Connection timed out [06:41] ok [06:42] trying the traceroute [06:45] 27th line of *** [06:45] still going [06:46] Destination not reached [06:46] SwedeMike: anything else I could try? [06:47] the last line that wasn't *** was: 6 ex9k2.dc8.fsn1.hetzner.com (213.239.229.22) 14.260 ms 15.118 ms 13.294 ms [06:49] am back === win0err_ is now known as win0err === e3 is now known as e2 [07:06] haha [07:06] 😀 [07:06] hello? [07:19] Hi, whenever I run apt-get install something, I get the following: [07:19] cajarename 17.3.28 requires caja, which is not installed. [07:19] cajarename 17.3.28 requires gir1.2-gtk-3.0, which is not installed. [07:19] cajarename 17.3.28 requires python-caja, which is not installed. [07:19] cajarename 17.3.28 requires python-gi, which is not installed. [07:19] (sorry about the paste) [07:20] morning [07:22] So how to fix this issue? [07:24] what issue? [07:25] microwaved_: Every time BlueShark does an apt-get install, it complains about: cajarename 17.3.28 requires ..., which is not installed (repeated x times, for all missing packages). === energizer is now known as energizer_ [07:26] is that the exact response, could you pastebin the systems response fully please? === energizer_ is now known as energizer === energizer is now known as energize [07:27] above all, which version of ubuntu is it === energize is now known as energizer123 [07:27] and which kernel are you running BlueShark [07:28] uname -a [07:28] microwaved_, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, MATE edition. [07:28] ok thnx [07:28] Linux mystic 4.15.0-22-generic #24-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 16 12:15:17 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux [07:28] ok can you paste the exact error from the system if you would be so kind sir [07:30] microwaved_, yes, sure - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DZVQGKzDrv/ [07:31] hello [07:31] ai_, hello. === energizer123 is now known as energizer [07:33] BlueShark: first of all there are also other problems you need to fix what i can see in the message ( permissions etc. ) [07:33] microwaved_, okay, how to fix those? [07:34] `sudo -H` would not show that message, though. [07:34] BlueShark: set the file permissions right with chown and chmod [07:34] it also looks like something wants to use that package called caja-rename [07:35] Artificial intelligents started [07:35] connecting... [07:35] An extension for the Caja file browser allowing users to rename multiple [07:35] files/folders in a single pass. [07:35] microwaved_, permissions of what folder / file? [07:35] finding target machine... [07:35] 8% [07:35] The directory '/home/user/.cache/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. [07:35] The directory '/home/user/.cache/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. [07:35] 10% [07:36] 24% [07:36] 56% [07:36] 72% [07:36] 89% [07:36] what is this ai_ doing? [07:36] 100% [07:36] dine_ [07:36] scanning finished [07:37] ... [07:37] sudo pip install ipython .. really? pip en sudo .. besides, try ipython3 as ubuntu dropped python2 in 18.04 [07:37] morning oerheks [07:37] clear... [07:37] you might want to try a query on google you'll find loads [07:38] oerheks, I'm still stuck with Python 2. [07:38] What's the best way to install ipython globally? [07:38] oh, mate is still on 2.7 [07:39] Python 2.7.15rc1 [07:40] bionic has the latest 5.5 ... https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/ipython [07:40] well, I can' really reinstall because of this one issue :/ [07:42] depends if you're running production or not [07:43] if not then you can try if so then you'll have to find out what effect it has when you do === Elimin8r is now known as Elimin8er [07:47] well,i think you can, apt install ipython [07:50] That always confuses me: do you want to use apt, or the "native" package manager, like pip / cpan / npm / ... ? [07:51] pip is not native, as in standard installed [07:51] pip is the native package manager for python, I mean. [07:53] pip is optional [07:58] so back to my 1st frown, drop sudo pip, try pip etc instead [07:58] or read some basics about python and environment [07:59] oerheks: What's wrong about my first sentence to microwaved_ 34 minutes ago? It somehow tripped Sigyn? === yaldak is now known as yaldak[afk] [07:59] oerheks: 24 minutes, but you get the idea. [08:01] eh, you said " apt-get install " but he is using pip [08:01] Like Sigyn would care. [08:01] and pip with sudo does things that makes the home folder unaccessable,.. [08:01] oerheks: Also, that wasn't known at the time. [08:01] so that error is normal, i would say [08:01] Sure. [08:02] But I'm wondering why Sigyn reacted to that sentence. [08:02] indeed, he misguided you, jink === energizer is now known as energizer_ [08:02] 嗨 [08:03] about openvpn client config [08:03] and i wonder what ppa is added, ipython 5.7.0 as in that pastebin is not from our repos i guess [08:03] !cn | U69553 [08:03] U69553: 如欲獲得中文的協助，請輸入 /join #ubuntu-cn 或 /join #ubuntu-tw [08:03] I make a client.conf in /etc/openvpn/ dirs [08:04] why the service can not load it? [08:04] service openvpn restart [08:04] ok [08:04] it's done nothing [08:07] Did somebody say 'Wonder?' === energizer_ is now known as energizer [08:25] while ((optc = getopt(argc, argv, "f:s:STA")) > 0) <— what it means? [08:27] pocketmon: what programming language is that? c? [08:27] c++ or c [08:28] ask in ##c or ##c++ [08:28] getopt(argc, argv, "f:s:STA") <—— this is linux command? [08:29] no it would be a c function [08:29] ? [08:29] it is linux builtin something [08:30] this would be better suited for ##c [08:30] better suited for #ubuntu [08:30] i belive it [08:31] pocketmon: that's not how that works :P this is a programming question, not a linux-specific question [08:31] hey man i get it, ##c sucks [08:31] EriC^^: so does C, so it's understandable ;) [08:32] nah C is the language of the gods :P [08:32] C is the language of the memory-related security issues, but now *I'm* getting offtopic. :P [08:34] getopt(argc, argv, "f:s:STA") <— ok then what it means? [08:35] pocketmon: it's not a question for this channel, as several others have told you [08:35] :( [08:35] ok [08:42] pocketmon: type in a terminal "man 3 getopt" [08:43] thanks but why i add 3? [08:43] it's the man section [08:43] man section? [08:43] what you mean? [08:44] section 1 is user commands, section 3 linux programming stuff [08:44] if you do man getopt, it'll open the command getopt, not the function for c [08:45] man getopt <— section 1? [08:46] yeah [08:46] ah thanks :) [08:46] bye [08:46] i will go to #c [08:46] no problem, see ya [08:46] or #c++ === yaldak[afk] is now known as yaldak [08:49] what motherboard (brand) do you guys use? [08:49] 'Morning folks [08:50] i bought gigabyte and msi and it wont run ubuntu [08:53] twocarlo_: I'm running ubuntu bionic on a gigabyte board fine, so it's probably something else in your setup. what's the problem you're running into? [08:57] i created an ubuntu usb stick on a 4gb kingston flash drive but the installer wont continue booting i have GIGABYTE H110M-DS2 [08:57] hello yall ... newbie ubuntu user here with a minor issue ... when i try to print a .pdf file, i cant find the option for black and white printing, it automatically prints in colors ... any suggestion how to fix it ? [08:57] twocarlo_: what happens when you try booting it? [08:57] twocarlo_: Have you configured the motherboard to boot off USB in the BIOS? additionally, is it a USB-2 or USB-3 stick [08:57] zotya: what program are you using? [08:58] the basic .pdf viewer [08:58] how to run supercisor for a app with a different user [08:58] https://pastebin.com/qBTgvpZA === hanna is now known as haasn [08:58] my app.ini [08:58] and the other MOBO is MSI A68HME33 [08:59] * Allie` has found the Kingston SE9 is the most reliable USB drive to boot off [08:59] hello, is pyenv not in the official? [08:59] (original, not USB-3) [08:59] for ubuntu 16:04 [08:59] What's the recommended way to get it? [09:01] Allie: i use 4gb kingston data traveller 101 [09:01] haven't tried one of those [09:01] but it should work - is the motherboard set to boot off USB? === ppf_ is now known as ppf [09:01] info === Richard is now known as Guest19309 [09:02] and the ubuntu iso i use is 16.04 mate [09:04] on the bios i have no option to disable the secureboot [09:21] !uefi [09:21] UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI [09:35] thanks guys for the help , ill be back once im done creating my ubuntu stick [09:49] can anybody help me when i start krita at the start instance it opens twice? [09:55] krita .. wasn; tthat a mint-mate-desktop issue ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/linuxmint/+bug/1675816 [09:55] Launchpad bug 1675816 in Linux Mint "Krita shows multiple times in "open with" dialog (mint/mate 18 x64)" [Undecided,New] [09:56] jups https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/issues/697 [09:56] oerheks:is there a solution? [09:56] yeah, tell the mint guys to package properly, we don't support mint you know [09:57] oerheks:im not in mint! [09:57] i just upgraded to ubuntu 18.04 and still the same issue with it! [09:58] i need to launch "service bluetooth restart" as regular user without sudo privileges [09:58] is there a way to set it up? [09:58] maybe something with sudoers file? [09:58] to be precise, make it an executable bound to keyboard shortcut [10:00] oerheks:i went to the krita channel and they said the issue was with the desktop! [10:00] are they wrong? [10:00] hi [10:01] bodi linux is the best light weight disto [10:01] arefbodhi, this is ubuntu support. [10:02] runing on pantium 4 with 768 mb of ram ASUS DESKTOP [10:02] Hi everyone, I need a hand. I can't configure php xdebug with visual studio. I have no idea on how to start this [10:02] how could I do it? [10:02] I AM A PRSON WHO LOVE TRY LINUX ON OLD PC [10:03] gt8ost4l, tht weird bug comes from mint/mate-desktop, so they are not wrong [10:03] arefbodhi, nice, but totally offtopic here, join #ubuntu-offtopic or ##linux for bodhi talk [10:04] I AM LOOKING FOR MAC PWOER PC G4 RIGHT NOW I HOPE I WILL FIND ONE [10:04] !caps > arefbodhi [10:04] Hi, i have been working with linux ubuntu for almost a decade but never tried programming in c language. I was wondering what to look for if i wish to run graphics outside x-server. Is that possible? [10:05] NOW I am runing bodi linux 4.5 legacy [10:05] on ASUS PANTUM 4 [10:06] ignore arefbodhi please. [10:07] oerheks: can you link me to the bug? [10:08] already gave 2 urls .. [10:09] IGNORE OK BYBE [10:10] hey all. why is the default editor on ubuntu something so obscure and unusable? why are tehre both update-alternatives and select-editor commands and the second doesnt actually work? [10:11] and why update-alternatives needs sudo? [10:12] why is this mess of a distro so popular ? [10:12] grr12314: alright, if you're here to just complain you can take that elsewhere [10:13] i'll humour you, though. the default editor is `nano`, which is neither obscure nor unusable - if you're used to vi/vim-like editors, it's a bit of a learning curve, but for most people coming from more visual editors it's a good middle-ground [10:14] nothing will get improved if noone ever complains. but yea i guess this isnt the right place... is there a more official place where i should complain? [10:14] no the default is not nano unfortunately. [10:14] its some "joe" thing [10:15] ... some "joe" thing [10:15] LoLz [10:15] ??? [10:15] sudo joe [10:15] oerheks: `joe` wasn't the default editor last time i checked, is this a fresh install? [10:16] i have no clue what 'joe' should look like [10:16] yes, fresh ubuntu 16 [10:16] grr12314*, sorrry [10:16] maybe gedit?? [10:17] to be clearer. the default is "auto" and "auto" seems to pick "joe's own editor" [10:17] the default default editor might be nano, but if peope sudo apt install other command-line editors, those often assume they were installed for a reason and change the default to themselves [10:17] idk why that was even pre-installed [10:17] ... hang on i'm second-guessing myself, i'm gonna install a fresh 16.04 because it's definitely been nano as long as i can remember... are you sure this is a completely fresh install? [10:17] it shouldn't be preinstalled [10:17] ("default default" -- what you get in a fresh install with no extra packages) [10:18] grr12314: what kind of install is this? 'joe' is not even installed on any of the three systems i just tested [10:18] I live in Iran. access to many sites are blocked by govnt. I found out port 53 is mostly open and having shadowsocks on that port probably going to work for long time without detection. this port is in use by Ubuntu DNS service. how can I change that? [10:18] are you talking of the command line editor, or the gui editor? [10:18] Hi All, we are using the ubuntu platform for our hardware\drivers project. Currently we started using 16.04 LTS v4.4 kernel. But we are not decided whether to use HWE or GA kernels, which one should be the best choice? [10:18] commandline [10:18] joe's own editor is not standard.. [10:18] !info joe [10:18] joe (source: joe): user friendly full screen text editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.6-1 (bionic), package size 526 kB, installed size 2160 kB [10:18] (it's actually a pretty alright editor :P) [10:18] so, be more accurate, Joe is not default [10:19] learn something new everyday, never heard of joe, and I've been using ubuntu for several years. [10:20] ok. it *should* be a fresh install, but wasn't done by me but by the IT dept. i'll take my complaints with them then. [10:22] sa_, GA (or general avail..) kernels are the most stable, most well tested so are the safest choice. use HWE kernels if you have very modern hardware (that needs needs a later kernel) & need to. [10:23] sa_: it's not clear what your requirements are, so answering this will be difficult. If you'll develop against GA kernels you'll have long term ABI stability. If you want to make users happy (accepting possibly increased support overhead), support both GA *and* the HWE stack whenever it gets updates. [10:23] well if you wouldn't of complained I've wouldn't of heard of Joe today. or may several months. [10:24] sa_, bug fixes are made to both GA & HWE kernels, however because GA kernels are older, have been used by loads more people - obviously they've had better & more testing (in prod'n even if dev testing was ~similar) [10:24] what about the "select-editor" vs "update-alternatives" mess? [10:26]