[16:30] <OvenWerks> briefly looking at ubuntustudio-live which has our ubiquity install menu in it. From that it looks like to do different desktops (DEs) we need to create ubuntustudio-desktop-xfce and -plasma as extra packages rather than as a part of seeds. -live depends on -meta (which has not been rebuilt for some years now and need to be updated)
[16:32] <OvenWerks> so we need a -desktop, and -desktop-xfce as a starting point. -desktop would remain in seeds (or could anyway) but desktop-xfce would become a package.
[16:33] <OvenWerks> it would contain applications which are not a part of one of our work flows and are not DE specific (like FF).
[16:33] <ErichEickmeyer> Ah yes. Simply a metapackage, right?
[16:33] <OvenWerks> right
[16:34] <ErichEickmeyer> Makes sense.
[16:34] <OvenWerks> I think we could then offer the choice of kubuntu-desktop as is.
[16:35] <ErichEickmeyer> Okay, so that means it pulls the kubuntu-desktop and then perhaps some customizing in default-settings?
[16:35] <OvenWerks> Our settings package would need to have some plasma settings built in as well
[16:35] <ErichEickmeyer> Right.
[16:37] <OvenWerks> Anyway, I have to switch to kubuntu and reinstall -controls to see how miy fixes work.
[16:37] <ErichEickmeyer> Cool.
[16:38] <ErichEickmeyer> BTW, all the icon updates are done. Can be installed from the daily for bionic and cosmic.
[16:38] <OvenWerks> I saw that. I have to go back into that package and fix the backdrop stuff too.
[16:39] <ErichEickmeyer> Might have to tweak the panel in xfce to be slightly wider, otherwise it looks like a blue circle with something in the middle.
[16:39] <ErichEickmeyer> Works perfectly in Plasma.
[16:40] <OvenWerks> can the circle be made smaller? (closer to the outside of the symbol?)
[16:40]  * OvenWerks hasn't looked yet
[16:41] <ErichEickmeyer> Well, it's at the edge as it is. It's only 22px.
[16:41] <OvenWerks> Like I said, I was sugesting without even looking :P
[16:42] <ErichEickmeyer> hehe
[17:15] <OvenWerks> hu, rtirq seems to be broken in 18.10 or maybe it's kubuntu 18.10
[17:20] <OvenWerks> it works fine in Studio 18.04
[17:28] <OvenWerks> DLing Studio 18.10 to check.
[17:29] <ErichEickmeyer> That seems like something that would be in the kernel for sure.
[17:51] <OvenWerks> The last time rtirq-init was synced was 2015
[17:52] <OvenWerks> Same as debian.
[17:54] <OvenWerks> Latest upstream is 20180420
[17:59] <OvenWerks> Anyway, writing Studio 18.10 to iso, will check rtirq there... if it works fine, but we should still look at a sync request in debian. If not fine, I will download from git and try that
[18:00] <ErichEickmeyer> Might have to get a debian package and sync request.
[18:00] <OvenWerks> debian is old too
[18:01] <OvenWerks> so ya
[18:01] <ErichEickmeyer> Yeah. Calf is still at 0.60 whereas 0.90.0 has been released with tons of new features.
[18:01] <OvenWerks> but need to make sure the git one works
[18:01] <ErichEickmeyer> yep
[18:01] <OvenWerks> There is another package that does the same thing that may be worth looking at too.
[18:02] <OvenWerks> it works after boot as well (like when a SUB device is plugged in)
[18:02] <OvenWerks> s/SUB/USB/
[18:30] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: rtirq works fine in Studio 18.10
[18:31] <ErichEickmeyer> Hmm... sync request then.
[18:31] <OvenWerks> even the one we have works fine
[18:32] <OvenWerks> It must be that one of our settings gives permition
[18:45] <OvenWerks> sync request in debian would still make sense
[18:45] <ErichEickmeyer> Could it be the memlock setting?
[18:46] <ErichEickmeyer> /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
[18:46] <OvenWerks> anyway, I am not sure what the difference is, but in Studio 1810, pulling a usb device out gets a right now responce, but in kubuntu, it takes 1 or 2 minutes during which cpu activity goes way up.
[18:47] <OvenWerks> I suspect there may be another setting because -controls fixes that
[18:47] <ErichEickmeyer> What if Plasma was installed on top of Studio?
[18:48] <OvenWerks> :) I am going to try that next as happens...
[18:48] <OvenWerks> I will try installing kubuntu-desktop
[18:50] <ErichEickmeyer> the package to install for a vanilla Plasma desktop is kde-plasma-desktop.
[18:50] <OvenWerks> I know that is different, but kubuntu has the full list
[18:51]  * ErichEickmeyer noods
[18:51]  * ErichEickmeyer * nods
[18:51] <OvenWerks> I may try the other as well to see what the differece is.
[18:52] <OvenWerks> But getting the kubuntu theme is important (at least to me)
[18:53] <ErichEickmeyer> That's as easy as a default setting since Plasma comes with the themes by default, just not configured like Kubuntu.
[18:53] <OvenWerks> right
[18:53] <OvenWerks> I also want to compare kubuntu-desktop to kubuntu-full
[18:54] <ErichEickmeyer> kubuntu-full is kubuntu-desktop plus the kitchen sink, afaik.
[18:54] <OvenWerks> for some version of kitchen sink yes
[18:55] <ErichEickmeyer> XD
[18:55] <ErichEickmeyer> Anyways, off to work with me. 
[18:55] <OvenWerks> o/
[18:55] <ErichEickmeyer> \o
[18:55] <OvenWerks> even -desktop has a lot
[19:28] <krytarik> Now, while the commit history on the -default-settings branch is definitely funny too, who gets to merge the newly created changelog section into the previous one that wasn't released yet either? >_>
[19:52] <OvenWerks> krytarik: it needs to be fixed before release... but I can only do one thing at a time.
[19:53] <OvenWerks> We need to change the backdrop spec back to png but it is too late to just roll back so edit. That is probably better anyway.
[19:54] <OvenWerks> krytarik: do you know much about plasma?
[19:54] <krytarik> Not particularly, no.
[19:54] <OvenWerks> I installed it on top of Studio a while ago
[19:55] <OvenWerks> the session manager shows two options both called Plasma
[19:55] <OvenWerks> the first one cuts off both my keyboard and mouse
[19:55] <OvenWerks> the second is ok.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> there is only one plasma.desktop in /usr/share/xsessions/
[20:04] <krytarik> grep -l 'Plasma' /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop
[20:05] <OvenWerks> I still only get one
[20:06] <krytarik> Huh. >_>
[20:13] <OvenWerks> The one I am using runs /usr/bin/startkde
[20:31] <OvenWerks> I wonder if the one that doesn't work is for wayland? (that doesn't make sense)
[20:43] <OvenWerks> Funny as it may seem... the extra login type _is_ for a wayland login
[20:44] <OvenWerks> by changing the dm to sddm instead of lightdm it all became clear
[20:45] <OvenWerks> sddm puts (wayland) after that entry
[20:50] <krytarik> https://sources.debian.org/src/plasma-workspace/4:5.12.5-1/plasmawayland.desktop.cmake/ → '/usr/share/wayland-sessions/plasmawayland.desktop'
[20:51] <OvenWerks> krytarik: it would be nice not to have that. sddm does have a config it may be able to be set to not look there
[20:56] <krytarik> Well, I wouldn't want to limit it for the cases where Wayland does work on a system.
[20:57] <OvenWerks> krytarik: in my (not very humble) opinion, the wayland entries should not be displayed on a system that does not have wayland anyway.
[20:59] <OvenWerks> but anyway, it looks like setting up a ubuntustudio-desktop-plasma would not be that hard.
[21:00] <OvenWerks> The problem is more with including it in the meta without including the packages in the iso
[21:02] <krytarik> dpkg -l | grep 'wayland'
[21:09] <OvenWerks> as of now there are no sddm config files. making one and setting [Wayland]\n SessionDir= would probably remove that entry. and as you point out making a systemd entry that checks for wayland installed would allow for removing the config file.
[21:12] <krytarik> Well no, that was to indicate that you should have plenty of Wayland stuff installed by now.
[21:13] <OvenWerks> So I do... but wayland doesn't work so at least something is missing
[21:14] <krytarik> Yes, I think it's just as often that it doesn't support your hardware/driver combo sufficiently.
[21:14] <OvenWerks> both my mouse and my keyboard?
[21:14] <OvenWerks> Yikes!
[21:14] <krytarik> I dunno!  It sucks? :P
[21:15] <OvenWerks> and of course my monitors were reversed as well.
[21:15]  * OvenWerks thinks Wayland is not ready for release yet...
[21:23] <OvenWerks> sddm does not ball up xfce either ErichEickmeyer add to next meeting adjenda: discuse replacing lightdm with sddm. I am sure lightdm could be configured too, now that we know what to look for, but sddm may be better going forward when Wayland does finally show up
[23:00] <ErichEickmeyer> OvenWerks: Done.
[23:13] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: what other DMs are other flavours using? sddm is a qt based deal, I don't know about lightdm (gtk?) What does vanilla use? gdm?
[23:36] <OvenWerks> ErichEickmeyer: regarding an iso with choosing the DE: if only one of the DEs is on the iso and a second one is chosen but not the first... a lot of these things get downloaded at install time, but installed after first boot... but if the current DE has been revoved at install, how do you login the first time to install the all ready DL DE packages