[00:00] <Eickmeyer> I'm thinking we'd have to get -look installed after -plasma, before -default-settings?
[00:40] <OvenWerks> I am thinking ...
[00:41] <OvenWerks> we need to have -default-settings, -xfce-settings and -plasma-settings I think.
[00:42] <OvenWerks> -default for things like our grub mode, swappiness and such
[00:42] <OvenWerks> so default would always be included.
[00:46] <OvenWerks> I was thinking that -default-settings could just include the settings for both (different patrhs anyway) but that would mean the session type chooser in the DM would always show both even one that is not there... unless it gets fixed at boot (every time).
[00:46] <OvenWerks> it would be cleaner to use three files.
[01:04] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed.
[01:05] <Eickmeyer> .session files that go to nowhere tend to cause loops in SDDM.
[01:05] <Eickmeyer> By that I mean sign-in followed by an SDDM restart.
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> I can see the bug reports from that happening, so best to keep the .session files specific to the -[DE]-settings.
[14:21] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: something is not right in -look
[14:26] <OvenWerks> Ah, last build ok. I think you are trying to make a link from a link. That makes sense to me, but not to the installer/builder
[14:28] <OvenWerks> I think it does not matter where the default backdrops are. Plasma may default to a certain directory, but I am sure we can change that. At least we can directly tell plasma where the default images are.
[15:21] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, what I did still doesn't work like it did when I did it manually. Plasma should be able to instantly see the files, but that doesn't appear to be happening.
[15:22] <OvenWerks> I am sure plasma can be told to look for backgrouns <here> if configured right.
[15:22] <Eickmeyer> I was researching that before Mr. Sandman came a-knockin'.
[15:23] <Eickmeyer> Might just ask kubuntu-devel.
[15:23] <OvenWerks> I think a first step is to create ubuntustudio-xfce-settings
[15:24] <OvenWerks> In other words we should make the changes in xfce first and make sure it still works :)
[15:24] <OvenWerks> or make it work.
[15:26] <OvenWerks> Then adding -plasma-settings with not much in it (accept defaults first) as a next step
[15:26] <Eickmeyer> I'm experimenting with my own setup to see. Knowing is still a good part of the process.
[15:27]  * OvenWerks was relieved to finish -controls so he could work on Ardour again
[15:32] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Found a bug on that. When plugging in headphones, my sound card couldn't switch from speakers to headphones automatically like it does when I run jack from qjackctl. Not sure what is going on there.
[15:36] <OvenWerks> I would be surprised if jackd was doing that. I think you will find that in that case pulse was doing the switching
[15:37] <OvenWerks> Ie, pulse was aware of the device before jack was started and while it gave up the audio ports it retained the control ports (which can be shared)
[15:37] <Eickmeyer> Okay. Well, it didn't matter if I started with headphones plugged-in or not, it just refused to use the headphones.
[15:37] <OvenWerks> This is an HDA specific problem... and requires a lot more work.
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> Okay.
[15:38] <OvenWerks> Headphones and speakers are the same port just with different level controls. You can use alsamixer to turn the headphones on.
[15:39] <OvenWerks> What I would tend to do is set the headphones always on and use the plug signal to turn speakers off/on
[15:40] <Eickmeyer> See, that's the thing: Alsa wouldn't do it either.
[15:41] <OvenWerks> Pulse (unfortunately) turns the headphones down.
[15:41] <OvenWerks> really? I have gotten that to work for other people I have talked to.
[15:41] <OvenWerks> start alsamixer after plugging phones in
[15:42] <Eickmeyer> Yep, tried that.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> use F6 to select the HDA device (mine is not 0)
[15:42] <Eickmeyer> Yep, did that.
[15:43] <OvenWerks> headphone should be all the way up and the bottom box should be 00
[15:43] <Eickmeyer> I'll play around with it some more.
[15:43] <OvenWerks> if the bottom box has MM then use m to unmute it.
[15:44] <OvenWerks> Master has to be up as well (I see mine is not)
[15:44] <Eickmeyer> But I'm pretty sure I did what you're describing, and it just plain would not work if jackd was started from -controls.
[15:45] <OvenWerks> I don't have anything connected to my hda audio, I used to have it disabled in bios, but found that it was handy to have for testing and helping people.
[15:45]  * OvenWerks is not even sure which jack would be considered phones on this mother board
[15:47] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: have you looked at hdajackretask to make sure the phone jack is still getting phones audio?
[15:47] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll try that.
[15:48] <OvenWerks> I will look for some phones with an 1/8 in jack (most of mine have 1/4in)
[15:49] <Eickmeyer> I have a pair of Behringer headphones I use that have 1/8 with the screw-on adapter for 1/4.
[15:51] <OvenWerks> works for me
[15:53] <OvenWerks> interesting, I had hdajackretask running and it shows that when I plug in phones the phones jack override turns on.
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I'll play around with it more to see if I can either duplicate the problem (again) or if the problem is gone.
[15:54] <OvenWerks> I think there are three controls that have to be up: Master, phones and pcm
[15:54] <OvenWerks> let me check
[15:57] <OvenWerks> no pcm makes no difference
[15:58] <OvenWerks> so just Master and Headphones, full up and unmuted
[16:07] <OvenWerks> I am pretty sure there will be a dbus signal of some sort when the phones are plugged unplugged. catching that will be the easy part...
[16:14] <OvenWerks> There is pyalsaaudio but it is python2 only. I do not see a python3 version though It is buildable. We need a package.
[16:16] <Eickmeyer> *nods*
[16:16] <Eickmeyer> I need to get better at packaging before trying something like that.
[16:19] <OvenWerks> ya it is not an easy one (doesn't use ./configure, make, makeinstall)
[16:19] <OvenWerks> The debian packager tools all expect that.
[16:19] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, but doesn't the install file let you override that?
[16:19] <OvenWerks> Which is why I gave up on carla
[16:20] <OvenWerks> sure if you can understand the language
[16:20]  * Eickmeyer starts digging
[16:22] <OvenWerks> it is not intuitive at all, you have to know the exact command. I do not know why they don't have some thing like config_command=<do this or nothing>, build_command=<how to build> and install_command=<how to install>
[16:23] <Eickmeyer> iirc, for Carla (built it multiple times) the build command should be make BUILDDIR=/usr/lib or something like that.
[16:23] <Eickmeyer> then a simple make install.
[16:23] <Eickmeyer> (Carla's makefile wants to default everything to /usr/local/lib
[16:24] <OvenWerks> Carla is easy to build, but the depends have to be just right before the build as there is no configure and depending on what is in the system it builds differently
[16:26] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. I got it to build perfectly about a month ago. I guess it's just a matter of figuring out what you need. I know he documented it.
[16:27] <OvenWerks> the py alsa thing is: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23190348/alsaaudio-library-not-working
[16:27] <OvenWerks> basically it is the same as python 2 but building it using python3.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> I will see if there is an easy commandline thing though
[16:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think it would be easiest to just use calls to amixer. I am not sure, but expect the device number would be a part of the dbus message
[16:52] <OvenWerks> Of course what would be reall nice, would be to plug the phones in to the internal acrd and have all things connected to another device rerouted to the internal :P
[17:02] <OvenWerks> amixer -c 1 -- sset Headphone playback unmute
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I've done that before by specifying the input & output devices in qjackctl, but -controls has no way of doing that (I'm assuming because you made a way to show all audio devices).
[17:04] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: um, most often when you do that in qjackctl you would have problems
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> I never once had a problem.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> it is ok to use hw0,0 for one and hw:0,1 for the other
[17:05] <OvenWerks> but to use hw0,0 for one and hw:2,0 for the other often crashes jack
[17:05] <OvenWerks> adding other devices as clients is more stable.
[17:05] <OvenWerks> (and seems to always work
[17:07] <OvenWerks> Generally the only time differeing in and out devices should be used with jack is if they are different sub devices
[17:07] <OvenWerks> for example to use the spdif output
[17:07] <OvenWerks> (often hw:0,2
[17:14] <OvenWerks> Dbus does not have a signal for pluggin unpluggin phones
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> Interesting. Must mean Alsa is handling it, but why wouldn't it work in -controls?
[17:16] <OvenWerks> no it means it is done some other way... like keyboard strocks
[17:16] <OvenWerks> *strokes
[17:16] <Eickmeyer> Oh, okay.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer> Well, I'm almost at a point where I can play with it again.
[17:18] <OvenWerks> acpi_listen seems to be the thing
[17:50] <OvenWerks> /dev/input/event9 (on my machine) is headphone
[17:50] <OvenWerks> the problem with using /dev/input/* is that they are root access
[17:51] <OvenWerks> ls -l /dev/input/
[17:51] <OvenWerks> crw-rw---- 1 root input 13, 73 Jun 13 14:34 event9
[17:52] <OvenWerks> Not even read access to prevent someone from kb snooping
[17:55] <OvenWerks> Hmm, even then it seems to rely on CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK being set in the kernel
[17:58] <Eickmeyer> *hangs head in shame*
[17:59] <Eickmeyer> d'oh! I know what the problem is. Didn't edit the install file. >.<
[17:59] <hellocasper> good evening everyone
[18:00] <OvenWerks> :)
[18:00] <OvenWerks> hellocasper: hello
[18:01] <hellocasper> OvenWerks: hi :)
[18:01] <Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Hi!
[18:01] <OvenWerks> testing is helpful for sure
[18:01] <hellocasper> Eickmeyer: Hi! :)
[18:02] <Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Looks like you did your homework! Welcome!
[18:02]  * Eickmeyer really needs to make a list of who is working on what
[18:03] <hellocasper> Eickmeyer: sure did, many thanks :)
[18:10] <hellocasper> just so i know, should i make submissions on launchpad or here on irc?
[18:10] <OvenWerks> bug reports? launchpad
[18:11] <hellocasper> thought so, thanks
[18:11] <OvenWerks> for testing ISO the best place to start is http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:12]  * Eickmeyer is irked that the wiki just went down (error 500) as he is editing. >.<
[18:13] <OvenWerks> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/390/builds/175174/testcases would be todays page but that changes when a new ISO is spun
[18:19] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: speaking of shuffling in the dark, I can't test headphone stuff on my system because my case is old and the plugset is AC97 not HDA
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> Eek. Okay, I'll have to do the testing.
[18:20] <OvenWerks> so when I do: sudo hdajacksensetest -c 1
[18:20] <OvenWerks> I get: Pin 0x1b (Green Headphone, Front side): present = No
[18:20] <OvenWerks> if it is plugged or not
[18:21] <OvenWerks> same with /proc/input/event* etc.
[18:34] <Eickmeyer> The Audio Handbook is now live: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook
[18:36] <hellocasper> I've submitted my first bug report, I do hope it's okay, if I've made any mistake please let me know, much appreciated, thanks!
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> hellocasper: No problem. What was the bug?
[18:37] <hellocasper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1777917 it's during a reinstall, "studio" is missing from the Ubuntu Studio identity
[18:39] <OvenWerks> hellocasper: I don't think that can be fixed
[18:40] <Eickmeyer> That's not a bug. Ubuntu Studio _is_ Ubuntu, not a separate distribution. All flavors say that.
[18:40] <OvenWerks> It is a lookup of /etc/os-release I think
[18:40] <hellocasper> ah, okay, sorry about that
[18:40] <OvenWerks> Thats ok, I wanted to change that too
[18:41] <OvenWerks> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS"
[18:41] <OvenWerks> That would be the line to change
[18:43] <OvenWerks> I would like it changed for the grub boot menu too but it was already painful changing thing to make lowlatency always first.
[18:43] <OvenWerks> The problem with making the name to Ubuntustudio is with ef-whatever installs rather than bios
[18:44] <hellocasper> can i ask, how is ubuntu studio built?
[18:44] <Eickmeyer> Using "seed" files on Launchpad.
[18:45] <hellocasper> seed files, like preseed?
[18:46] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I played a bit with my son's laptop (which has a Headphone jack) and acpid does detect un/plugging.
[18:46] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Must be something weird with my system.
[18:46] <OvenWerks> hellocasper: sort of but a bit more complex
[18:46] <OvenWerks> the one thing to look for might be "Automute"
[18:47] <OvenWerks> with Automute off both phone and speaker are on in both cases
[18:47] <hellocasper> OvenWerks: would it be possible if i would be able to look at it please?
[18:48] <hellocasper> could be*
[18:48] <OvenWerks> The laptop is older and does not have both a speaker and Headphone control
[18:49] <OvenWerks> hellocasper: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.cosmic/files
[18:50] <hellocasper> OvenWerks: thanks
[18:51] <OvenWerks> you will notice no desktop-common, desktop-common is inherited from one of the ubuntu vanilla flavours
[18:52] <hellocasper> that's clever
[18:53] <OvenWerks> All of the flavours are done the same way
[18:53] <hellocasper> ah
[18:56] <OvenWerks> basically it is possible to build any flavour on top of one of these: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
[18:59] <hellocasper> really? i thought the netboot iso's only had enough to boot and connect to the web?
[19:00] <OvenWerks> yup, and then there is a menu that can dl and install whatever is needed for a flavour
[19:00] <Eickmeyer> I'm afk for a while. o/
[19:00] <hellocasper> o/
[19:01] <hellocasper> :)
[19:04] <hellocasper> i'm not sure if this is a bug, but from the taskbar menu, if i turn bluetooth off, when i restart my laptop, the bluetooth is back on, wouldn't it be better if turning bluetooth off turned it off properly instead of the session?
[19:07] <OvenWerks> I don't really know the answer to that.
[19:08] <OvenWerks> my system doesn't have BT but the icon still shows.
[19:11] <hellocasper> I'm off to the shop for some fish and chips, back in a bit o/
[19:11] <OvenWerks> o/
[20:03] <hellocasper> i'm back :)
[20:05] <hellocasper> one thing i did have to do when i first installed 18.04 was to install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics because my touchpad click input wouldn't work
[20:05] <hellocasper> tap to click input*
[20:08] <hellocasper> plus the mouse was too fast flying off the screen, once i installed that package the speed was normal again as well as tapping to click works
[20:14] <Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Ubuntu is relying on libinput now. Bear in mind, the Ubuntu Studio team is only responsible for Ubuntu Studio-specific things. When it comes to the DE, that usually gets redirected to Xubuntu, or in the future, Kubuntu since we're adopting the Plasma desktop in addition to Xfce.
[20:15] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: My last commit did the trick for -wallpapers. All systems go.
[20:16] <hellocasper> Eickmeyer: ah, okay, so with Ubuntu relying on libinput, what does that mean for touchpads?
[20:26] <Eickmeyer> hellocasper: I'm not 100% sure, all I know is that synaptics is depricated in favor of libinput, but for some people (such as yourself) it's not working nor is it guaranteed to work. Hence, the availability of xserver-xorg-input-synaptics for legacy devices. Bear in mind, it's not maintained. 
[20:33] <hellocasper> I'm a bit confused why the Ubuntu team would choose to do this, for someone new to Linux, trying Ubuntu 18.04 for the first time, something that simple might put them off staying on Ubuntu
[20:33] <hellocasper> some people just want things to "just work", if that makes sense
[20:34] <Eickmeyer> Did you test it in Ubuntu proper? It might be an Xfce thing.
[20:36] <hellocasper> I haven't, that's something for me to try, thanks
[20:40] <hellocasper> I was just wondering, with the seed data, how could I go about building an ISO?
[20:41] <Eickmeyer> That's more OvenWerks' territory. I've gotta jet, stuff to do.
[20:41] <hellocasper> cya Eickmeyer o/
[23:10] <hellocasper> good night
[23:10] <hellocasper> o/
[23:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the answer is it gets built every 24 hours...