[02:57] <guiverc> tomreyn, i've re-installed many times & never wiped my $USER data  (something else, no format..) ... you don't want to go there?? (i've not installed 18.04 so maybe i'm out of date)
[02:59] <tomreyn> guiverc: is there the no format option on the desktop installer?
[02:59] <tomreyn> i just don't know, i guess i didnt have /home on / for a long time
[02:59] <tomreyn> guiverc: so if you can guide, just do :)
[03:01] <guiverc> looking for a ubuntu thumb-drive to start install & confirm it hasn't changed...
[03:04] <guiverc> (anyway your choice (replacing kernel) is far safer as it doesn't mean ensuring you unclicked 'format' box on screen 17)  :)
[03:05] <tomreyn> safer, maybe, easier, no.
[03:09] <guiverc> found a 17.10 image; booting 'try ubu'..
[03:10] <tomreyn> which ubuntu version did you have installed there?
[03:12] <guiverc> i'm using 18.04, but the drive i found had 17.10 so am 'trying that' (won't install, just to get to selecting partitions to ensure format-box can still be unclicked.. note: I've never used it on encrypted partition so no idea if that makes a difference)
[03:12] <tomreyn> oops, i mixed you up with the support seeking person in #ubuntu
[03:13] <guiverc> no prob...  same topic anyway :)
[03:13] <tomreyn> but oyu know how to recover from it. ;)
[03:14] <tomreyn> i dont think they told us which ubuntu version they're running.
[03:14] <tomreyn> or have been
[03:14] <guiverc> yeah I'm pretty sure install (something else) & no-format is easily done (17.10 anyway)  - but i've never used it with encryption  - no they haven't said version!!!!
[03:15] <guiverc> (not going further; not letting it write data to my drive! - its the same as i've used before...)
[03:17] <tomreyn> looks like they either fell asleep or wiped the remaining bits of executable code off their storage anyways.
[03:20]  * guiverc wants to do a smiley, but not sure it's appropriate..
[03:26] <guiverc> tomreyn, another + of your choice - the OP learnt !  (re-installing wouldn't have taught anything beyond patience maybe)
[03:27] <tomreyn> well, we dont yet know whether they succeeded, or broke it more.
[03:27] <tomreyn> but they seem to as good at self recovery as they are at self destruction
[03:28] <tomreyn> haven't seem someone this determined to find their own ways for a while, that's cool.
[03:28]  * guiverc smiles (twice)
[03:29] <guiverc> i took them as new to ubuntu, i had to look up telinit myself (I just use init)
[03:30] <tomreyn> probably new to ubuntu but not unix / linux in general
[03:30] <tomreyn> no need to look up telinit, it's history
[03:31] <tomreyn> (although we can all learn from that)
[03:32] <tomreyn> did the pope move to arizona recently?
[03:56] <guiverc> pope move to arizona?  real life reference? or from main room? - i'm intrigued somewhat.
[03:58] <tomreyn> somenoe going by this name changed this channel recently. you're probably ignoring channel joins/parts.
[03:58] <tomreyn> their ip address points to arizona.
[03:59] <tomreyn> and i'm off to bed, ttyl.
[03:59] <guiverc> okay - yeah I don't see any joins/parts on this a couple of rooms..
[03:59] <guiverc> night Tom
[04:09] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> this look usefull for a !hotspot trigger? https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/net-wireless-adhoc.html
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> alot of users call for it
[06:42] <ducasse> good morning
[09:55] <guiverc_d> main room & support for non-repo software is ~nil right - you point only?
[10:16] <Nokaji> Hi folks - can I expect my 16.04 to be auto-upgraded soon?
[10:24] <lotuspsychje> !ltsupgrade | Nokaji
[10:27] <lotuspsychje> Nokaji: support questions like that, fit in #ubuntu
[10:36] <Nokaji> sorry back ...
[10:37] <Nokaji> ubot5: I thought it already upgraded - didn't notice the delay
[10:37] <Nokaji> thanke ye lotuspsychje :)
[10:59] <Nokaji> hmh, ... not sure ubuntu can claim five yr support until April 2023 when it isn't out until May 2018 ... not that I intend to sue :)
[11:10] <immu> hi...
[12:30] <hans_> the ubuntu 18.04 server ISO grub bootmenu has a default timeout of 3 seconds, defaulting to "install ubuntu" ... that menu should not have a timeout at all
[12:30] <hans_> (the 1 called "ubuntu-18.04-live-server-amd64.iso" )
[12:31] <tomreyn> so why should it not have the timeout?
[12:31] <hans_> (i mentioned it in #ubuntu , and they pointed me to this channel)
[12:37] <hans_> tomreyn, hmm.. the only time you actually want to choose anything on that menu is when you want to run the ubuntu installer, a rather special and rare operation, when the installer menu has a default timeout, one might end up accidentally running the installer, by inserting the wrong usb stick, then look at the server screen a bit too late, and check "is it booting?" after the timeout has expired, then conclude "yup, it's booting",
[12:37] <hans_> without realizing it's booting the ubuntu installer, not the installed system.. bleh
[12:39] <BluesKaj> howdy folks
[12:40] <tomreyn> hans_: well it's an installer iso, it boots the installer by default, makes sense to me.
[12:41] <hans_> well, iirc, the "ubuntu-16.04.4-server-amd64.iso" doesn't have that timeout, and the windows iso doesn't have that timeout either
[12:41] <tomreyn> the worst that can happen if you forgot to remove the dvd/cdrom/usb stick/virtual drive mounted iso is that you end up booting into the installer, but that's no immediate harm is it
[12:42] <tomreyn> so ubuntu should be like windows, or should never change?
[12:43] <tomreyn> maybe the 18.04 alternatve server installer better suits your needs
[12:44] <hans_> no, windows actually gives you a "press (whatever) within 5 seconds to start windows installer" before timeouting to boot from harddrive, and 16.04 never timeouts, i prefer the 16.04 approach
[12:44] <hans_> alternative installer? you mean the netinst installer?
[12:46] <tomreyn> no i mean the alternative server installer, which the text on the page you download the live installer points to.
[12:46] <tomreyn> no i mean the alternative server installer, which the text on the page you download the live installer *on* points to.
[12:47] <tomreyn> this one is like the 16.04 installer. it may have the same boot menu behaviour, too.
[12:48] <tomreyn> i'm definitely not a fan of the server live installer being the default in its current form, but the 3s timeout is the last thing i'd consider an issue.
[12:48] <hans_> maybe this 1? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/18.04/release/ubuntu-18.04-server-amd64.iso
[12:48] <tomreyn> maybe, depends on what you're looking for, i guess
[12:49] <hans_> that's what i found from looking for the "alternative installer"
[12:49] <tomreyn> it's the alternative server installer for amd64
[12:54] <blackflow> so the gist of the complaint is that someone might insert wrong usb stick, look at the screen too late and think it's booting from disk instead of the installer from USB?
[12:56] <tomreyn> i didn't notice a 'complaint' there.
[13:00] <blackflow> tomreyn: you didn't notice "a statement that something is wrong or NOT SATISFACTORY" (emphasis mine)?   https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/complaint
[13:01] <tomreyn> blackflow: well, i guess you can interpret it both ways. either as a complaint, or an (entirely or partially creative, positive) attempt to spur a discussion. i could not tell which one it is.
[13:02] <tomreyn> blackflow: so maybe you're right, but i'd prefer we try to not assume the worst. ;)
[13:06] <tomreyn> blackflow: okay by now i'm inclined to consider hans_ a complainant, too
[13:07] <blackflow> not sure if sarcasm.... because the complaint/suggestion is rather ridiculous. :)   "aww, the 60 second timeout is insufficient, I was talking at the phone and saw the screen too late"...    I mean, it's an installation disk. You insert it for the purpose of installation. if you remove the timeout, then all the vast majority of people using it for installation purposes would suddenly have a
[13:07] <blackflow> complaint that, for an installation medium, it's sitting there waiting for something :)
[13:10] <blackflow> I mean, IF... as it's presented.... usign the wrong stick by mistake and not looking at the screen, is the only suggested reason for timeout's inadequacy. :)
[13:34] <tomreyn> i wasnt sarcastic there.
[13:35] <tomreyn> i also pointed out that i don't consider the 3s timeout an issue.
[13:37] <JimBuntu> lordy, ##linux is on fire... not a huge fire, but... still
[13:40] <blackflow> JimBuntu: drama?
[13:40] <JimBuntu> lol, yeah a bit and perhaps a troll. I'm not normally on Saturdays... I guess this is what it's like
[13:41] <JimBuntu> #ubuntu is still top notch, I am happy for that :) blackflow
[15:29] <hans_> blackflow, btw, it's a 3 seconds timeout (or 4?), not 60
[15:39] <blackflow> hans_: yeah but you're missing the point. "look at the screen too late" could be easily 60 seconds.
[15:42] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[15:42] <oerheks> hey lotus :-)
[15:42] <lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
[16:02] <lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-Glib-Low-RAM-App-Launch
[16:03] <lotuspsychje> interesting
[16:12] <tomreyn> maybe gnome3 will actually become usable in time for 18.04.1 then!
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> lets hope tomreyn lets hope
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> really need it for my unity customers
[16:16] <lotuspsychje> memory patch and a systemd speedup would be nice
[16:16] <tomreyn> i was also considering to switch to gnome3, but all i see /Z read about it makes me want to stay away from it.
[16:16] <lotuspsychje> yeah right now its still a messy experience
[16:17] <tomreyn> i'd like to upgrade systems to 18.04 soon, though, and the desktops will need to run *something* (mostly xfce for now, guess i'll need to stick to that, which is also not good, since gtk2 is essentially dead now).
[16:17] <lotuspsychje> tweaked my whole system and not much difference due the gnome bottleneck
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: we still have a lot of xfce ubuntu users out there
[16:19] <tomreyn> well, it still works on 18.04, i guess, and will probably have another 3 years of support for the basic stuff.
[16:19] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[16:20] <hans_> lotuspsychje, i use "apt install --no-install-recommends lxde-core lxde-common lxdm xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-video-dummy lxterminal;" on some servers
[16:20] <hans_> (well, not exactly like that, but very close)
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> hans_: yeah but i need a vanilla ubuntu desktop for my customers
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> the LTS to LTS way
[16:21]  * hans_ 's favourite desktop is xubuntu
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> lubuntu & xubuntu bit too under experience for them
[16:21] <hans_> under experience ?
[16:22] <lotuspsychje> well.. lets say not too much bling
[16:22] <lotuspsychje> eye candy
[16:22] <hans_> too... primitive/not-fancy? gotcha
[16:23]  * hans_ has nothing to contribute to this discussion.
[16:23] <lotuspsychje> hans_: i also dont want my customers to add icons themselfs from a menu lubuntu/xubuntu style
[16:23] <tomreyn> i do like gnome3's design, it feels more modern to me than xubuntu, too.
[16:23] <tomreyn> but the price is still too high
[16:23] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: yeah if overall performance is fixxed, would be nice indeed
[16:23] <lotuspsychje> lets hope with ubuntu devs, gnome devs will wakeup a bit
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> but then blackflow told me the other day they stuck somewhere
[16:24] <tomreyn> gnome devs are stuck in an echo chamber, and have been for the past years ;)
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> like the whole gnome system not built right or so?
[16:25] <tomreyn> they just don't listen much to criticism.
[16:25] <blackflow> lotuspsychje: hmmm?
[16:25] <lotuspsychje> blackflow: cant recall how you said it, we discussed it right
[16:25] <blackflow> don't remember what the context was
[16:25] <lotuspsychje> unity users transition to gnome at .1
[16:26] <tomreyn> in a way that's good, since they have a chance to be unique and actually come up with something new. but... some criticism is worth listening to.
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> blackflow: i tryed to solve my systemd boot speed, as you trying to help, but gnome overall performance isnt much helping
[16:33] <lotuspsychje> i also think the masses didnt install 18.04 yet
[16:34] <lotuspsychje> but once xenial users will get the upgrade window...
[16:35] <blackflow> hopefully the outrage will be such that Canonical reconsiders bringing back Unity to main
[16:36] <blackflow> Unity was the best. Gnome but not gnome, if you know what I mean.
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[19:25] <oerheks> oh, is this qwertirc dude still trolling?